Should surgery for permanent incontinence be allowed on those who claim to suffer from living in a continent body?

[~Brian~]

2 hours ago, FretaBWet said:

voted no on this. My reasoning is that you do not need surgical procedures to be incontinent. All you really need is to be diapered 24/7 365 for the rest of your life. That is exactly what an incontinent person is going to be doing. You will have all the benefits that go along with being incontinent like leaks at inopportune times. Leaks at night that will force you to need to launder your bedding. You will get to sacrifice things you want to buy because buying diapers and wipes will be a higher priority than recreation, travel or enjoyment. You will get to fully enjoy the diaper rash that may occasionally pop up. What you are really seeking is a way to force yourself into this so you will not be able to change your mind or back out.

@FretaBWet

I also voted no on this. The reason is because you can make a decision that you wish to be incontinent, and decide to wear diapers 24 hours a day seven days a week, 365 days a year without having to have a surgical procedure completed. There is also an ethical thing to consider here: if a doctor where to perform such a surgery without a medical benefit, he or she could risk being brought up on charges, or could possibly lose their medical license because of something that someone determines to be malpractice.

everything she says above is true: if you just put a diaper on and you decide that you were going to use it all the time regardless of what time of day or night, you will experience exactly the same things.  You will still get to wear diapers, you will still experience exactly what a person who is incontinent will have to experience: you will have to clean yourself up, you will have to change yourself in inopportune times, very inconvenient times, and sometimes you will not have what you need to be able to do such a change. There are individuals who are incontinent and not by choice, and they have to wear diapers because that is the way it is. They do not have the ability to undo this, or go without them, as @Kawaharu As stated, because she “is not potty trained” and is incontinent has medical issues.  If your “plumbing does not work“ as @~ashley~ so properly put it, there is no choice, you either wear diapers and deal with it, or you end up cleaning mess off the floor. Either way you have to deal with that happening. Some people cannot help that the condition exists, but they deal with it. The way you deal with it is to accept that you have to, and then decide how far you are going to deal with it, and whether you wish to become either an incontinent AB, Or an incontinent DL, or whether you are wearing for emotional support/psychological support, or for other medical reasons.

There are people who want to go this route and end up having a “operation” to make it so they are in Incontinent so they have to wear diapers all the time. If someone has to wear diapers because they’re in Cotton, and they don’t have any control, or their plumbing is broken, or whatever the diagnosis is, they have to wear diapers, and they deal with it every day because that’s all they know. In my case with cerebral palsy, I was born that way almost 50 years ago, and although there are things that I would love to be able to do and not have cerebral palsy, I would not trade my life for one moment for the types of things that I have been able to do, or the people that I have been able to influence, or the lessons I have learned, are the people who have stood behind me all the way. Regardless of whether I like it or not, I have cerebral palsy, and it affects my brain – I can’t change that, nor would I, but I am not going to sit and allow myself to wallow in self-pity and feel sorry for myself because of the fact that something doesn’t work. I make do with what I can and I do the best that I can, as anyone else who deals with a disability on a daily basis has to. It’s just the way it is. You can sit in a dark corner and cry and worry about it, or you can pick yourself up off the floor, dust yourself off, and say “I got this, but it’ll be a kind of interesting way to deal with it!”  I learned very early on in life that I should not “feel sorry for myself“ because I can’t do certain things that I wish I could do. I learn not to dwell on these things, because there always are people that are going to be 1000 times worse than I am, or they are not going to be able to do the things that I can, or the simple things that one takes for granted.  People may decide to adopt parts of the “lifestyle“ adapting it to their own lifestyle and what they believe is right for them, or how far they want to go.  If you’re incontinent, and you are unable to control it, then it is not too far of a stretch to make the jump between AB/DL Or both.

The reason why I say that it is important that you make the choice, without making a decision that would hurt you, is because eventually, if you decide that you are just going to wear diapers 24 hours a day seven days a week 365 days a year, and you keep doing it every day, your body will eventually train itself. Your brain will have to be reprogrammed to allow your body to release. Your locks are on, and they are engaged, and in order for them to be disengaged and turn off, you will have to convince yourself that it is not a bad thing To release in a diaper: I know that there may be individuals who are looking for surgical ways to get this done, but it could be dangerous for individuals if done the wrong way. You can always decide to wear diapers, spend money that way, live that lifestyle, do things differently, and then if it doesn’t work out, you could undo it by retraining yourself. However, just as I’m training yourself is as difficult, retraining yourself could be even worse.

In my case, I started having accidents in 2019, and instead of worrying about why I was having them, or worrying that they were something majorly wrong with me, I want to see my doctor. He already knows that I have cerebral palsy, and he knows of the effects that my disability can have on my nervous system, my excretory system, my circulatory system et Al.  It is not uncommon for people with disabilities to wear diapers, nor is it uncommon for people who have the feelings that are associated with wearing them as a child to come roaring back to you if you are shut off because of a particular garment, sound, feeling, or action that is performed on you by you or on you by somebody else. I flatly refuse to worry anymore about whether or not I am going to use my diaper: if I do, that’s what it’s there for, and it can be changed. If I don’t use my diaper, again it can be changed and replaced. Far too often life is too short to be worried about minor little things that cause you to worry That your life is “over” because you may wet or miss yourself. It is quite inconvenient sometimes, and embarrassing, but, you don’t have to worry: that’s what the diapers for, and I’m glad I have mine.

I just hope that eventually, state Medicare and Medicaid programs will understand that it is not necessary to always be sent to a specialist and have to spend a lot of money to get what you need. Because of my decision, my life is turned around 110%, I am not worried about that anymore: during the pandemic, there are times that I didn’t even know if I was going to be able to continue to do what I was doing, or whether I was going to be happy anymore, or whether I’d be able to see everyone or anyone every day: when you have that hit you really hard, and you end up calling your doctor feeling as if you just don’t have it in you anymore, because your depression is running off the rails, or are you just feel out of sorts, then you reach out for help and tell them that you need their help because you don’t know what to do.

in the case of my incontinence, I KNEW WHAT I WAS Going to do: ask for help, be honest, be straightforward, and tell the truth: just like our friend @Enthusi Did when he told his doctor - and had that added to his medical records. I’m still astounded that he wrote down the way he did, but as @Kawaharu has done, she took it by the horns and she is  riding with it – sometimes that is what you have to do: it can be scary or can be nerve-racking, or it can be depressing – I choose to make it something that is a necessity, something that I have to do every day, and I choose to make it as unmundane ad I possibly can. I figure That I already have been having accidents, so why not prepare for that actuality and just deal with it every day. It’s a lot easier than doing three loads of laundry every two weeks, most of which are because of incontinence issues. ?  

as my friend once told me “careful what you wish for – you may get more than you bargained for“

Brian

Edited March 22, 2022 by ~Brian~
Add additional words

[Ubba]

This is a really interesting topic, and I find it so interesting because of my knee jerk reaction. 

 

So I am pro euthanasia and pro abortion, I am also a trans ally. 

 

But my knee jerk reaction to this was "Oh hell no, damaging yourself for a fetish, get out of here"  

 

But as I started to think on why I thought this way I realised I  was parroting a lot of the arguements that I am apposed to when it comes to body anatomy and then I realised that IC surgery is not right for me but why should I get to dictate what others do with their bodies. If anyone wants to be made incontinent more power to them. It is probably safer to allow doctors do this to people rather than having people trying to figure out how to damage themselves enough to become ic or to try home made methods. 

 

I started to think then what if people abuse the procedure or what if people are coerced or if the procedure is done under one of many unethical ways. But thinking on this I dont think that those hypothetical cases should be a reason to stop people from getting the surgery, more that it is something that should be safe guarded against the I think the medical community should figure out. 

 

I then started to think on is continence dysphoria actually a thing or is it an opportunistic argument being made at an opportune time. But the more I thought about it the more I think that it doesn't matter if its real or not. If someone wants to go through with the surgery then they should be able to, its their body, their life. You do you boo. 

 

Then I started thinking on whether or not the state should support them, or if going through with the surgery would mean they could get on welfare and again I'm sure people will abuse the surgery to try and get something out of the state but I think those type of people would find anyway to try and get on welfare so I dont think that people who want to get the surgery should suffer for this. I personally believe in universal health care so I think that it should be covered but I think that it should be treated as however elective cosmetic surgery is treated in your country. But with that said I don't know anything about continence dysphoria so I guess if that has enough of an impact on peoples lives then maybe it should be considered a life saving surgery, but I dont think who fronts the bill is an important point in this discussion. 

 

So in case it is not clear, I voted yes to this but I think it is very interesting what my knee jerk reaction was and then how it completely changed once I took a moment to think about this. 

 

I would love to hear from someone who has continence dysphoria as until this conversation I have never even heard of this so would be interested in hearing more on the subject

[spark]

2 hours ago, kasarberang said:

You must have a very different experience with the medical industry than I do. I've absolutely had less of these negative experiences with Doctors than I have with nurses, but I've still had plenty of negative experiences with doctors.

I agree with everything else in your post, but personally disagree with this section, based on my personal experiences with the medical industry. Though, again I've had FAR more negative experiences with nurses than doctors. Probably because the commitment, time and effort it takes to become a nurse is significantly less than that to become a doctor and the amount of suffering you can inflict on someone as a nurse is most likely about on par if not greater than if you were a doctor.

As an American, I've had my share of negative experience with the medical industry, but 100% is based on health insurance issues.  I have a few MD's in my family, and also some RN's that I know personally.  I'm also fortunate because I have a good luck with my medical team.  My primary care doctor is not great, but I trust that he is taking my best interests when dealing with me.  Most of my interactions with doctors in emergency situations have been, and my ophthalmologist is the best doctor I've ever had.  FTR- you don't want to have personal ophthalmologist, but if you need one- make sure it's a good one.  I kind of have two, because my cousin is also one and he is there to make sure it's good.

I would vote no on the question.   My personal feeling is that conditioned incontinence can be attained, but it takes years of dedication to become completely conditioned to diapers.    By the time that happens, you will be very familiar with all of the issues that being incontinent has.   And I've not seen any medical evidence that says the conditioned could not be reversed, but much like the first time- it takes time.  This would be a short cut, and would do permanent damage.    To me, the risk of an elective surgery to do something that harms your body is unethical for the patient, and definitely unethical for the surgeon.

[oznl]

3 hours ago, Ubba said:

then I realised that IC surgery is not right for me but why should I get to dictate what others do with their bodies.

You just nailed it in one phrase...

3 hours ago, Ubba said:

I would love to hear from someone who has continence dysphoria as until this conversation I have never even heard of this so would be interested in hearing more on the subject

Yep.  Not sure this one has made it to the DSM yet but there's a lot of evidence floating about that it's a thing.  Not sure I have it myself (although I've thrown away a bunch of continence over long 24/7 time) but I suspect @Enthusi might have it.  Let's see if he chimes in.

I'm loving the way that this thread is proceeding by way of reasoned debate btw.  It's great to be able to see different points of view instead of ranting ?

 

[spark]

1 hour ago, oznl said:

You just nailed it in one phrase...

Yep.  Not sure this one has made it to the DSM yet but there's a lot of evidence floating about that it's a thing.  Not sure I have it myself (although I've thrown away a bunch of continence over long 24/7 time) but I suspect @Enthusi might have it.  Let's see if he chimes in.

I'm loving the way that this thread is proceeding by way of reasoned debate btw.  It's great to be able to see different points of view instead of ranting ?

 

I've been thinking about this since I first read it.  It reminds some post that were on these pages where posters were wondering if they could go to a place like Thailand and have a surgery that would cause you to become incontinent for life. 

Obviously there has to be a line where it become unethical.   Euthanasia is an example.  In my opinion, somebody who has a terminal disease and are living in pain and choosing to die is one thing.  But what about emotional pain?  What about if death is just a desire?  At some point it crosses the line from compassion to adding to a suicide, which is murder.

Gender affirming surgery is one thing, but there are people who have medical fetishes and want to become an amputee.  To change the words: Should amputations be allowed for people who claim to be suffering from being physically able to walk?

I don't think I have continence dysphonia.   I'm clearly ok with conditionally myself to use diapers at will, even if it means I risk wetting my pants, but part of it is going back to being a little kid and choosing not to use the toilet.   

 

[FretaBWet]

6 hours ago, kasarberang said:

You must have a very different experience with the medical industry than I do. I've absolutely had less of these negative experiences with Doctors than I have with nurses, but I've still had plenty of negative experiences with doctors.

I agree with everything else in your post, but personally disagree with this section, based on my personal experiences with the medical industry. Though, again I've had FAR more negative experiences with nurses than doctors. Probably because the commitment, time and effort it takes to become a nurse is significantly less than that to become a doctor and the amount of suffering you can inflict on someone as a nurse is most likely about on par if not greater than if you were a doctor.

I don't doubt your negative experiences at all. The point I was trying to make was that most doctors want to do the best for their patients.

As far as the U.S. medical system is concerned, in my opinion it sucks ass. You couldn't couldn't create a worse system if you were the genius Dr. Evil and made it your life's work.

Hugs,

Freta

[ozziebee]

2 hours ago, FretaBWet said:

The point I was trying to make was that most doctors want to do the best for their patients.

In some cases, by a Dr doing nothing/refusing surgery, they may actually add to the pain that the patient is experiencing.  The patient's mental attitude may be so great that it ultimately comes down to a "I'd rather be dead than deal with the continued anguish of not being IC".  

There are also lots of cases of people attempting to simulate incontinence by use of stents etc requiring emergency intervention.  Some of those are having to do this due to such mental anguish of continence dysphoria. 

This is an _exact_ match for the question of transgender - it literally gets to the point of "if I cannot transition, I'd rather die, because I cannot live like this".  In the days gone by (before T was added to LGB), for some people it was nigh on impossible to transition, and even more so to afford the costs to pay for the surgery, so that question was sometimes answered by suicide.  Today, things are __sooo__ much easier to change documentation, be accepted by family and society, and even have some jurisdictions pay for hormones and surgery. 

Continence dysphoria does not just touch on the physical aspect of surgery to achieve total and permanent incontinence, but it also touches on the mental aspects driving the patient to ultimately commit to such surgery.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by ozziebee
added stent play

[Wet Knight]

As a lifelong bedwetter, If you are fortunate to have a body that works, DON'T  F*CK  IT  UP !!!

[kasarberang]

12 hours ago, BabySpiderBoy said:

Yeah, I know you have very strong opinions on OUR healthcare system. And quite frankly, it DOES suck. But what do you think about Canada's health Care system, do you think it would be better or worse??????

I do not know enough about Canada's healthcare system, so I don't feel like I'm qualified to speak on it. I will say that most of the EU seems to have healthcare figured out from my outside viewpoint. But again, it's not something I am educated enough to confidently speak about.

[Draventhedark]

I think there should be options to get medically placed stents that can only be removed by a doctor but not anything that is going to make it permanent. Yes many may think they want it but in reality not as many truly do. I know I thought I did for a long time till I used a catheter with holes in it for a weekend. It is much much more work then I was expecting. Though I would try out a stent if I could have it done by a professional for a few weeks to a month just for the experience. As others here have said as well you don't need any kind of medical procedures done to become incontinent. Just refusing to use the bathroom and using your diapers all the time will reverse your control. Just takes time and can in the end game be reversed through work.

 

[Little Cub Pants]

3 hours ago, Draventhedark said:

I think there should be options to get medically placed stents that can only be removed by a doctor but not anything that is going to make it permanent. Yes many may think they want it but in reality not as many truly do. I know I thought I did for a long time till I used a catheter with holes in it for a weekend. It is much much more work then I was expecting. Though I would try out a stent if I could have it done by a professional for a few weeks to a month just for the experience. As others here have said as well you don't need any kind of medical procedures done to become incontinent. Just refusing to use the bathroom and using your diapers all the time will reverse your control. Just takes time and can in the end game be reversed through work.

 

Yeah, that's very true buddy. I HATE using catheters! I remember when I was in the hospital I had to use one all the time, and it always hurt my pee-pee.????? It was very painful.??? That's why diapers are a much better way to go, PERIOD!????☺️?????♥️??

[oznl]

8 hours ago, Draventhedark said:

I think there should be options to get medically placed stents that can only be removed by a doctor but not anything that is going to make it permanent. Yes many may think they want it but in reality not as many truly do. I know I thought I did for a long time till I used a catheter with holes in it for a weekend. It is much much more work then I was expecting. Though I would try out a stent if I could have it done by a professional for a few weeks to a month just for the experience. As others here have said as well you don't need any kind of medical procedures done to become incontinent. Just refusing to use the bathroom and using your diapers all the time will reverse your control. Just takes time and can in the end game be reversed through work.

 

Yep.  I'd be guided by medical science as to the "least worst" vector to achieve the result but I do like the inherent reversibility of a stent.  One would think if such a procedure WAS trivially reversible then the bar for performing it would be lowered accordingly.

The only fly in the ointment here is that others have suggested that there is a significant risk of complications with stents left in place for long periods of time due to encrustation.

[dlnoir]

I voted on this too. I have been using stents for years I a row now literally 24/7 and to be honest by now I am fine with that. It is a strange phenomenon in the first place, being an adult yet having these overwhelming feelings and desires to no control and be dependent on diapers. Well I do have an enormous desire to have no control over my wettings and I have to deal with that, but on the other hand I will not cause harm to a healthy body, that is basically where I draw the line. Ferix shared a lot of, I think, good information on his desires and the path he took to achieve his goal. Personally I found it very helpful to make the right decisions for me as I could not oversee the long term consequences of such a profound decision. I think I’ll stick with stents for about as long as I can. What the future brings I cannot tell you but so far using a stent never caused me any problems no UTI no nothing. I have been reading up on medical stents like the “Memocath” but they do not come without their problems like ingrowth so they are being monitored by the urologist. For me the stent works fine to make me feel comfortable and complete. The only downside to this method is, you’ll have to take it out every once in a while to clean it. But other than that to me it is a great way to achieve my goal and feel in contact with who I am.

 

[Alex Bridges]

I recall hearing a story once, probably here, about someone working with a psychiatrist to get diagnosed with body dismorphia as a result of being continent, and the psychiatrist made the case to a surgeon, and the surgeon did the operation. I'm not sure what surgery that would be, however, that didn't lead to unintended consequences like impotence.

And of course no idea if it was true.

[Alex Bridges]

22 hours ago, Alex Bridges said:

I recall hearing a story once, probably here, about someone working with a psychiatrist to get diagnosed with body dismorphia as a result of being continent, and the psychiatrist made the case to a surgeon, and the surgeon did the operation. I'm not sure what surgery that would be, however, that didn't lead to unintended consequences like impotence.

And of course no idea if it was true.

I’m realizing now that my kink brain may have been overwhelming my normal brain and making me mistake this story for the one I described above.

 

Short version is a woman always felt she should be blind, made her case to a psychologist, and with the psychologists help, she was blinded.

[oznl]

14 hours ago, Alex Bridges said:

I’m realizing now that my kink brain may have been overwhelming my normal brain and making me mistake this story for the one I described above.

Short version is a woman always felt she should be blind, made her case to a psychologist, and with the psychologists help, she was blinded.

I’d have to say the “Drain-o in the eyes” story to actualise her dysmorphic aversion to her own sight was the most confronting example I’ve read and sorely tests my “live and let live” stance.  Close second was the patient who wished to become a quadriplegic (just buy a quad-bike and ride it for a while, they’re called that for a reason!)

I think the problem I have with those scenarios is the inevitable and substantial social cost imposed on the wider community for concessions and care relative to a case or two of diapers per month (and even then, only as a last resort).

 

 

[incondl]

I voted yes on this subject. As someone who was urinary incontinent but want to be bowel incontinent it would have been a lot easier to achieve if it were done with surgery. It took a long time of training to become incontinent and I have no regrets other than I wished I could have done it sooner. If incontinence is something a person truly wants then I believe they should be able to through surgery. Most don’t understand the need but I do.

[Kawaharu]

The problem with people who wish and want to be incontinent is that many think it's glamorous and fun. Many don't read the very fine print on what it REALLY means and what it really entails in being incontinent and being kept in diapers. Many don't think long and hard on what they want to do to themselves. If people really read what really involves in being incontinent and being kept in diapers, many people would not want to go though it because it's not FUN and if you don't have a legitimate reason or medical justification, people are gona think and assume your weird, strange or someone with a weird fetish. It's why people like me who have a legitimate medical issue, have a reason for being kept in diapers and it's on my medical records and my doctors know I am incontinent and kept in diapers.

Being incontinent, you don't get to decide when to go to the bathroom. Your body will let go when it feels like it and many times it will be in situations you don't want to be in. At the same time, you can't wear the clothes that you like to because of diapers your wearing. On top of that, get use to not being able to do a a proper diaper change in public bathrooms and having bathrooms that are not big enough to accommodate a diaper change. At the same time, in the summer it ain't comfortable wearing a diaper in a hot, humid day. At the same time, get use having people give you strange looks at your diaper butt. Even get use to people having to constantly question why your wearing a diaper and having to constantly spit out answers to people. If you people think being incontinent is fun, I'ld be glad to let ya try it and tell me what you think.

It's why being incontinent, I am often puzzled as to why would people ever want to be in a diaper permanently without ever knowing what it fully involves and what it REALLY means. Many think it's glamours and don't even see the work it takes to deal with being incontinent and being kept in diapers. I understand many people want to be incontinent and be kept in diapers, but it's a one shot deal and their's no going back. People like me who are incontinent due to medical conditions, have no choice but to deal with it and deal with being kept in diapers. I think, people need to READ the fine print before putting yourself in a diaper permanently. if people think being incontinent and being kept in diapers permanently is fun, I'd be glad to let ya try it and you all can come back and let me know how it is. And i'll say this, my doctor wanted to put me on bladder control meds but after reading the side affects of those bladder meds, A diaper is the least of my problems over the bladder control meds. A diaper is a lot better than having to deal with the side affects of the bladder control medications. 

[incondl]

People constantly asking you why you wear diapers? In all my years I’ve never been asked. Do you have a little exhibitionist in you? 
Clearly you have a problem wearing diapers as you described reasons for not wanting to and you felt the need to tell us all how hard it is to manage…… all on a Incontinent Desires thread. 

[Kawaharu]

6 hours ago, incondl said:

People constantly asking you why you wear diapers? In all my years I’ve never been asked. Do you have a little exhibitionist in you? 
Clearly you have a problem wearing diapers as you described reasons for not wanting to and you felt the need to tell us all how hard it is to manage…… all on a Incontinent Desires thread. 

So you think being Incontinent is fun and you think being incontinent is a fetish or a kink. You wonder why some incontinent folks don't like being next to people like you who think Incontinence and disability is a fetish and a kink. I can see why you voted yes because you think being incontinent is fun and glamorous and you think that being incontinent is so much easy and so fun. Clearly you have a problem with people who are truly incontinent and have to be wearing diapers. You don't have a medical justification but you want to wear diapers because you think it's cool.

[incondl]

2 hours ago, Kawaharu said:

So you think being Incontinent is fun and you think being incontinent is a fetish or a kink. You wonder why some incontinent folks don't like being next to people like you who think Incontinence and disability is a fetish and a kink. I can see why you voted yes because you think being incontinent is fun and glamorous and you think that being incontinent is so much easy and so fun. Clearly you have a problem with people who are truly incontinent and have to be wearing diapers. You don't have a medical justification but you want to wear diapers because you think it's cool.

You do throw some accusations out here that are not based on any type of fact about me don’t you? We must see it your way because that’s the only way right? Sorry that life is bad in your shoes. I’m sure you can find a thread with others that think along the same line as you. Find them. Embrace them. You won’t find it on this subject. 

[Kawaharu]

14 minutes ago, incondl said:

You do throw some accusations out here that are not based on any type of fact about me don’t you? We must see it your way because that’s the only way right? Sorry that life is bad in your shoes. I’m sure you can find a thread with others that think along the same line as you. Find them. Embrace them. You won’t find it on this subject. 

You seem to think being incontinent is all glamorous and easy. Disabled people have it harder. Check your privilege 

[~Brian~]

36 minutes ago, incondl said:

You do throw some accusations out here that are not based on any type of fact about me don’t you? We must see it your way because that’s the only way right? Sorry that life is bad in your shoes. I’m sure you can find a thread with others that think along the same line as you. Find them. Embrace them. You won’t find it on this subject. 

@incondl

With all due respect:  I don't see how a thread that is dealing with a desire to be incontinent for whatever reason "assumes any type of facts" about you.  If you want to be incontinent, and you ARE incontinent, then the fact is that you are urinary incontinent, and you want to be bowel incontinent.  People may want to have this happen to them, and they may dream about it, and long for it, and can make it happen through some work, and that is up to them.  What we seem to get "stuck on" is that people who have responded who think that surgery is NOT a good idea because it can hurt you in the long run, and I do not believe many doctors would perform such a procedure, which is why I voted NO, and I am already incontinent now anyway, and have decided to make the switch to diapers in 2019 and 2020.  For a doctor to do this to anyone, there would have to be a reason that is sound, and provides an individual with an improvement to their life, and surgery like this would NOT be something that is reversible, so there are consequences to a decision like this, and that is a given.

 

1 hour ago, incondl said:

We must see it your way because that’s the only way right? Sorry that life is bad in your shoes. I’m sure you can find a thread with others that think along the same line as you. Find them. Embrace them. You won’t find it on this subject. 

We don't HAVE to see it  ONLY one way.  We can agree to disagree, with whether surgery is/should be allowed to get to the means that we are discussing regarding  this subject or any subject,  and @Kawaharuhas stated her opinion(s) and her observations.  She is Incontinent and disabled, so she does have unique perspective, and is LIVING with both incontinence and her disability.  I also am living my life, and I have a unique perspective, because like her, I am disabled and incontinent, and living with Cerebral Palsy and Incontinence, as well as other problems that we all deal with, such as arthritis, mobility, and chronic pain that appears to be caused by age and the CP - Each of us has their reasons for wanting or dreaming of/about or desiring incontinence.  People may LIKE the fact that they want to lose control, and they may LONG for it:  This is FINE, but the only thing that is trying to be conveyed is that there are consequences to any decision, and I believe @Kawaharuis saying that incontinence is NOT easy, and she and I BOTH have ways that we deal with our situations.  

I don't think that she needs to  "find a thread with others that think along the same line as you. Find them. Embrace them. You won’t find it on this subject."  We all don't think alike, and we are entitled to our opinions or observations - There are many viewpoints, and I have learned to listen to all sides, and be tolerant of each others thoughts and views, and I think that comments that have been voiced here are appropriate and not overly out of line - We all need to Embrace that each person has an opinion, and that that even IF we do not agree, that they have the right to express it - This is an Incontinent-Desires forum, and regardless of why we may want to have these desires, her comments about the REALITY of what Incontinence actually is like is still Valid.

 

22 minutes ago, Kawaharu said:

You seem to think being incontinent is all glamorous and easy. Disabled people have it harder. Check your privilege 

@Kawaharu is correct, and I can also state that it is hard sometimes as well:  I got tired of trying to get to the bathroom in a hurry, falling down because I didn't want to wet or mess myself, and having my body decide to release what it wanted and when it wanted, and it was inconvenient.  I also got tired of having sleepless nights, or having to spend 3-5 HOURS in the bathroom at times, because I could not complete it all the way, and had to keep running back in.  I got tired of having accidents, wetting and messing all over the place, or having wet/dirty clothing because of that, or wetting in/messing in my bed.

So, what do I do:  I go get HELP from the doctor, and I get diapers, because that is easier than having to worry about all these concerns:  I come HERE to DD, and I am searching for the answers, and for help from people I TRUST, knowing that with their help, I can deal with anything:  I meet good friends, I start talking to people of a like minded nature such as @DailyDior @AwakenEvilor @Elfyor @diaperwearntigger - I talk to other people too, such as @spoonchickenand @Evelyn Dellcerroand @Transfusionelle - and you know what?  THEY ALL helped me to realize that while I have a disability, and I deal with incontinence, that I AM NOT strange, or weird, or sick, or twisted, or any other words like this:  They all helped me deal with it, and I "Embrace THEM"  Sure I wet or mess my diapers, but that does NOT mean that it makes the reality of incontinence any less real, or the warnings that we post here any less relevant.  There are dangers that are inherent in any procedure, and I am NOT trying to take the "Fun" or the "wind" out of your desires, but for those of us who deal with "broken plumbing downstairs" as @~ashley~So properly put it, deal with the reality of having NO CONTROL, and when you don't have that control, whatever goes IN comes OUT sometime later, and you can't plan for that, it just happens.

No:  Its not Glamorous OR easy, but when you are wearing diapers anyway or dealing with disabilities, you come to a level of acceptance:  @Evelyn Dellcerrotold me that what you need to do is to take a bad situation, and try to adapt, and make it better, and why not do that:  I mean, I LIKE diapers, so why not ENJOY them and add the "DL/AB" aspects:  That is what I @~Brian~ did (DL) and what @Kawaharu did (AB) - We just found a way to deal with what we were handed, and that makes something that may cause us distress a way to deal with it.

Diapers are DESIGNED to allow you to release - How better to deal with your fears or your worries:  Release them, of Course

Brian

[Draventhedark]

On 3/26/2022 at 8:01 PM, oznl said:

Yep.  I'd be guided by medical science as to the "least worst" vector to achieve the result but I do like the inherent reversibility of a stent.  One would think if such a procedure WAS trivially reversible then the bar for performing it would be lowered accordingly.

The only fly in the ointment here is that others have suggested that there is a significant risk of complications with stents left in place for long periods of time due to encrustation.

True there is risk no matter what when doing such things. Though with someone trained it is greatly reduced and they could determine when it needs to be removed to be cleaned or what not. I just feel that most people that want to be incontinent really don't understand what it really means to deal with it. I did it just for a weekend and it was a very good learning experience on what it would be like to really deal with the issues. I would like the opportunity to be able to go get a stent done for a few weeks and then have it removed and go back to normal myself but I know I wouldn't want to be that way permanently. It is a lot of work and planning but for me the experience of what others go through is an eye opener on their day to day lives that remind me of how good I have it. Good reminder of the blessing we actually have.

 

[incondl]

Well I answered the poll as to how I feel and won’t be swayed. I enjoy life how it is now. I don’t think it’s glamorous or cool. I certainly will not try to sway others. I just replied to a question and things sort of blew up. If the poll would have stated that if you don’t answer the question with a answer that others don’t like then prepare yourself for backlash then I would have never replied to the poll to begin with. I know better now.