Is nobody dry anymore?!

[Greg03]

Hey

i don’t post that often but I really wanted to get everyone’s opinion on something.

 

is it just me, or has there been a big increase in incontinence issues in the last few years? Especially amongst men who are much younger than the age you’d expect continence issues to creep in.

I’m early 30s, lifelong bedwetter, daytime control went about 5 years ago. Most of my friends growing up knew I wore diapers at night plus I come from a family with a history of bedwetting. Until a few years ago, I knew of no one outside of my family who had problems staying dry, now I know about 5 and these are people I’ve always known. I guess because of my own situation, people are more inclined to talk to me about it. No, of course not everyone is now in diapers full time, but they are using some form of incontinence product on a regular basis.

Mentioned this to my sister and she said exactly the same. That because her close friends are aware that her sons are bedwetters, she is often the one people talk to about similar issues.

I guess it kind of makes sense when you think about how the incontinence product market has grown. There must be demand and I know that it’s always been more common than people think. But I’m amazed at how common it’s become and wondered if anyone else has noticed similar or any ideas why.

[2sail2]

With both parents working, it's hard for them to take care of kids.  They look for a quick and easy solution.  They say gaming has caused a lot of the issues in schools (adhd). 

I look at my wife and I and glad in a way we don't have kids.  We both work.  Can't keep up with house work, she loves to sleep in (each weekend day is half ruined) and shop for makeup / clothing. 

[rusty pins]

Too many factors in recent years that brings incontinence to the fore front.  More people are aware of bladder issues from light leakage to incontinence.  That is mostly due to the advertising and marketing of incontinence products on TV, mostly for light bladder leakage.  True, many people leak a little when they sneeze, laugh hard or excersize and that most likely has gone on for decades, but the companies that make these products are doing several things.  They have brought it out in the open so people are aware, they make their products seem undetectable under clothing and show all walks of life wearing them and happy, smiling and doing fun, regular things.  It's almost like, "Go ahead!  It's fun to wet your pants!"

Then you have disposable diapers that make it easier for parents instead of the old days of washing poopy cloth diapers.  Ine incentive to get a kid potty trained and out of diapers isn't as strong with disposables.  I think working parents with limited time to themselves tend to keep their kids in diapers a lot longer than parents 50 or 60 years ago.  That might lead to a kid growing up and wanting to wear diapers as an adult.  Look at how many people just on this site want to become fully incontinent at the age of 30 or younger.

As far as actual adults becoming incontinent more and more in recent times, there could be explanations.  It's possible that they have come out more about their incontinence and don't hide it due to the products on the market and the fact that incontinence and bladder leakage is much more openly discussed these days.  There could also be more health issues if people don't take care of themselves as well as they did 50 years ago.  Lets say that 50 or 60 years ago more people did more manual labor and got more excersize or kept their weigh down.  This includes kids who used to ride their bikes or play with the neighbor kids instead of being on their cell phones and playing video games.  Maybe they played some type of sports after work like basketball with their friends.  Now days they work longer hours in an office at a computer and when they get home tired, they watch TV, play video games and surf the web.  If they gain weight they could become diabetic and that could cause incontinence in some cases.  Kids will be overweight too if they don't get out and physically play, and that can add to problems with their health as they become adults.  There could be other causes.  Larger populations means more people and more people may mean more with incontinence, even if the percentage of overall incontinence remains the same based on the current population.  The answer is maybe yes, maybe no, too many factors to think about.  

[Greg03]

1 hour ago, 2sail2 said:

With both parents working, it's hard for them to take care of kids.  They look for a quick and easy solution.  They say gaming has caused a lot of the issues in schools (adhd). 

I look at my wife and I and glad in a way we don't have kids.  We both work.  Can't keep up with house work, she loves to sleep in (each weekend day is half ruined) and shop for makeup / clothing. 

I don’t mean kids being late to toilet train. I mean adults starting to have issues well before the age you might expect

[wetbedmo]

It could be that it is not as hush,hush as it used to be.

[ken2988]

From what I could read from medical publications there has been an increase in the level of incontinence which can be attributed to many different factors.  From what I can read the biggest factors are a lack of exercise, obesity, and the average age people live to increasing.  Women make up around 85% of those who are actually incontinent, and men make up about 15% of those who are incontinent.  I would mention the number of people that are incontinent, but it appears those numbers are all over the place, so I really can't find any reliable numbers.  I have seen numbers that go anywhere from 5%-50% of the population which to me reads like people are just tossing numbers out there.

One thing I did read was that among those who have prostate surgery to reduce the side of the prostate, roughly 40-80% of those patients end up with urge incontinence due to the surgery.   Considering the surgery is typically to fight cancer, that is a good trade off!

[babykeiff]

Children aged 5 - 15

• Both parents work, so child care is left to nanny / third party
• Toilet training is an extremely stressfull time for both trainer and trainee.
• Disposable diapers do not give the feedback to the child that s/he is wet / messy
• Pull-ups are available upto age 15/16

As a result, toilet training is being delayed and/or not being done completely.

This creates multiple issues -

• Young school age children needing diapers in school
• If diapers are not being used, pull-ups are.
• Older school age children (close to / past puberty) with bed wetting problems

Over 16 Year Olds

• Higher levels of stress due to to need to reach 100% for parents choice of third level education
• Longer working hours to keep job / gain promotion
• Time allocated to use of bathroom facilities reduced as time away from desk / position is a deduction / demotion / may cost a job

Other factors

• More 'open' advertising
• Less 'babyish' theme.
• They are not being called diapers - they are PADS / BRIEFS etc.
• They are being marketed as being 'discrete'.

Consumers soon learn that the discrete designer breifs fail from a rain-drop hitting them and they soon move onto full mat diapers or 'flex' pad systems. Due to the number of users growing, the information in relation to how good x-brand is as compared to y-brand is more available, which is further taking the use of diapers out of the shadows.

This is cyclical, the more users, the less taboo it is to talk about needing diapers, the more available (in public display) *proper diapers are, and therefore, the more consumers = more users.

*Since there are more users, businesses will only stock what will sell. As a result, they no longer stock the 'cheap' unreliable brands - as they do not sell. Some large supermarket chains have yet to expand their product line to include proper diapers - they prefer to stock the 'discrete' / 'designer' pads / breifs / pull-ups as this type of product offend the least people.

[spark]

I work as a special education teacher, and have been for a long time.  When I started, I had very very students who would self-identify with anxiety issues, and now about 30% of my students have accessed free mental health services at my school.   I have another 10% that I think probably could benefit from it.  We didn't consider it when I started, and when it would have been taboo when I was I was in school.   Anxiety existed but wasn't talked about.   Autism is another example because several of the students identified as autistic wouldn't have been suspected as autistic 30 years ago.  They would have been considered weird.

I remember the first time I saw an adult diaper advertisement back in 1986, and my grandmother was mortified.  This is the same woman who later said that she had to get up at a certain time because if she didn't she would have an accident.  I'm sure she was already timing who voids, which and might have been wearing thicker underwear to absorb leaks.  Back then, you did what you had to do, and you damn sure didn't talk about it.  You likely didn't even talk about it with your doctor.    Bedwetting was considered an underreported issue and still is, but people are much more willing to admit it now.   

Now there is so much availability that people are buying more for pleasure and convenience.  25 years ago I would buy from HDIS, and the best quality diapers you could get were the better quality medical diapers.  We were desperate for Pampers to come up with an adult-sized diaper.   At the time the consensus that it would never happen because it would affect their main market.  Bambinos then proved there was a market, and now so many suppliers are ABDL aware that I get frequent customer calls from at least two companies (and Bambinos isn't one of them).    FTR-I think P&G missed a chance 10 years ago when they should have realized that there was a market for that product, and could have manufactured an adult-style Pampers ABDL and then marketed them under a different brand.  A bit like how In-Bev and Coors-Molson uses various brands to distribute their beer.  FTR- that product would likely need to be distributed online.

If you look at the options available at a CVS now is not as a good as they were 10 years ago.  They used to have briefs, and they were decent, and then they had decent quality pull-on diapers.  My understanding is their briefs are now absolutely useless, and they are primarily selling pull-on style diapers- which aren't any better.  Basically- anybody who has a need, or a desire for a true incontinence product is getting them online because the quality, convenience, and the price is so much better.   I suspect most of the CVS incontinence sales is 1st timers or convenience wearers who haven't really researched the options available.

[rusty pins]

On 9/10/2022 at 6:23 PM, Greg03 said:

Is it just me, or has there been a big increase in incontinence issues in the last few years? Especially among men who are much younger than the age you’d expect continence issues to creep in.  I don’t mean kids being late to toilet train. I mean adults starting to have issues well before the age you might expect

 

On 9/11/2022 at 9:24 AM, wetbedmo said:

It could be that it is not as hush,hush as it used to be.

As I said in my post above, more people are aware of incontinence due to media and manufacturers of products

18 hours ago, ken2988 said:

From what I could read from medical publications there has been an increase in the level of incontinence which can be attributed to many different factors.  From what I can read the biggest factors are a lack of exercise, obesity, and the average age people live to increasing.  Women make up around 85% of those who are actually incontinent, and men make up about 15% of those who are incontinent.  I would mention the number of people that are incontinent, but it appears those numbers are all over the place, so I really can't find any reliable numbers.  I have seen numbers that go anywhere from 5%-50% of the population which to me reads like people are just tossing numbers out there.

One thing I did read was that among those who have prostate surgery to reduce the side of the prostate, roughly 40-80% of those patients end up with urge incontinence due to the surgery.   Considering the surgery is typically to fight cancer, that is a good trade off!

Great points, especially about obesity, lack of exercise including among children due to how people live these days with technology we didn't have 50 years ago.  I mentioned these as well in my previous post but forgot about prostate issues.  Prostate cancer is a killer and much more on the minds of men than even 30 years ago.

12 hours ago, babykeiff said:

Children aged 5 - 15

• Both parents work, so child care is left to nanny / third party
• Toilet training is an extremely stressfull time for both trainer and trainee.
• Disposable diapers do not give the feedback to the child that s/he is wet / messy
• Pull-ups are available upto age 15/16

As a result, toilet training is being delayed and/or not being done completely.

This creates multiple issues -

• Young school age children needing diapers in school
• If diapers are not being used, pull-ups are.
• Older school age children (close to / past puberty) with bed wetting problems

Over 16 Year Olds

• Higher levels of stress due to to need to reach 100% for parents choice of third level education
• Longer working hours to keep job / gain promotion
• Time allocated to use of bathroom facilities reduced as time away from desk / position is a deduction / demotion / may cost a job

Other factors

• More 'open' advertising
• Less 'babyish' theme.
• They are not being called diapers - they are PADS / BRIEFS etc.
• They are being marketed as being 'discrete'.

Consumers soon learn that the discrete designer breifs fail from a rain-drop hitting them and they soon move onto full mat diapers or 'flex' pad systems. Due to the number of users growing, the information in relation to how good x-brand is as compared to y-brand is more available, which is further taking the use of diapers out of the shadows.

This is cyclical, the more users, the less taboo it is to talk about needing diapers, the more available (in public display) *proper diapers are, and therefore, the more consumers = more users.

*Since there are more users, businesses will only stock what will sell. As a result, they no longer stock the 'cheap' unreliable brands - as they do not sell. Some large supermarket chains have yet to expand their product line to include proper diapers - they prefer to stock the 'discrete' / 'designer' pads / breifs / pull-ups as this type of product offend the least people.

Again, all great points, many of which I touched on.  Working tired parents who find it easier to just change a kid's diaper and wait longer before potty training, possibly causing a child to develop a love of diapers, also perhaps prolonging bedwetting and maybe causing problems as a teen going through puberty and the overall availability of pull ups, goodnites (in sizes that will fit the average 16 year old) and adult disposable underwear.  Also as babykeiff and I mentioned, they are marketed as discreet and undetectable, something everyone can use just in case (Depends commercials a few years ago saying everyone should just wear them as their regular underwear "Underwearness")

[hlcl]

 If there wasn't a need for larger size diapers companies wouldn't make them.  I remember when Pampers introduced size 6.

 With today's busy and hectic lifestyles parents often delay potty training.  They find that it's easier to change a diaper than take someone to the potty.  

 I think sometimes parents/caregivers give up on potty training and just leave someone in diapers.  I think in previous generations the mentality was "this person is special needs so they can't be potty trained. " I believe that everyone should be given a chance develop their potential to learn to use the toilet.  For example someone might be able to use the toilet during the day but need diapers when they are sleeping. 

[babykeiff]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:04 AM, hlcl said:

 If there wasn't a need for larger size diapers companies wouldn't make them.  I remember when Pampers introduced size 6.

 With today's busy and hectic lifestyles parents often delay potty training.  They find that it's easier to change a diaper than take someone to the potty.  

 I think sometimes parents/caregivers give up on potty training and just leave someone in diapers.  I think in previous generations the mentality was "this person is special needs so they can't be potty trained. " I believe that everyone should be given a chance develop their potential to learn to use the toilet.  For example someone might be able to use the toilet during the day but need diapers when they are sleeping. 

@hlcl,

I can see your point, but I think that you might have it backwards. The need for larger size diapers was created by diaper manufacturers so that they could sell more diapers rather than the other way around - larger children still diaper dependant so manufactureres made products to suit a need.

The key is that in a diaposable diaper, the feedback to the child that they are wet / messy is weak to non existant. Since babies / children self prioritize what they wish to learn and in what order - i.e. choose which development milestone to reach and when - all based on need, this means that the effort of controlling ones bladder / bowels and not to wet / soil in the diaper that they are wearing is so low on their agenda, that without an adult 'pushing' the child in that direction, a child will never learn to potty train.

The average age that a baby who wore cloth diapers toilet trained is about 12-18 months. The average age that a baby who wore disposable diapers toilet trained is 2-3 years, with some never gaining full control. The difference is down to the type of diaper the baby wore, and the associated feedback given to the baby after they wet / messed.

This site consists of three main groups of people -

1. Those who are diaper dependant due to accident and/or injury and/or birth issues. The actual definition of 'incontinent', ie having weak to zero control of sphincters to such an extent that their sphincers have athropied and may need manual intervention to empty bladder / bowels OR their sphinters do operate and they void almost autonomically.
2. Those who are / choose to be diaper dependant due to failure to obtain full toilet control. This is due to being trained in a rush by parent / gardian in order to suit some school / creche etc rules to not be in diapers on day 1. However, was put back into diapers during that first day and it was the creche / school that trained you daytime. These people normally wore some form of protection overnight for a number of years until 6/7/8 years of age where timed voiding plus reduced fluids etc created the illusion that they 'dried up' overnight, where during and/or past puberty bed wetting returned, but was 'managed' by timed voiding, midnight bathroom trips etc. If these people go out an evening where they consume alcohol, this is usually followed by deep sleeping and a wet bed, so these people chose to wear diapers overnight.
3. Those who like to wear diapers to sate mental or physical triggers.

It is the people in group #2 that I refer to as being manipulated by diaper manufacturers into needing diapers due to a choice that they made within their first years of their lives - to delay reaching the 'toilet trained' milestone in favour of reaching another. This choice they made was based on the lack of urgency that they percieved to be toilet trained due to reduced feedback and/or being comfortable in a wet and/or messy diaper.

#2 group has been created by both diaper manufacturing companies, and mistakes by parents / careers - in beliving that the diaper company was making diapers to keep their precious child safe and dry and comfortable - combined with advertisements selling the concept that 'others wear diapers in work, why don't you'

[~Brian~]

On 11/19/2022 at 8:04 PM, hlcl said:

 If there wasn't a need for larger size diapers companies wouldn't make them.  I remember when Pampers introduced size 6.

 With today's busy and hectic lifestyles parents often delay potty training.  They find that it's easier to change a diaper than take someone to the potty.  

 I think sometimes parents/caregivers give up on potty training and just leave someone in diapers.  I think in previous generations the mentality was "this person is special needs so they can't be potty trained. " I believe that everyone should be given a chance develop their potential to learn to use the toilet.  For example someone might be able to use the toilet during the day but need diapers when they are sleeping. 

@hlcl

I would agree with you. It seems as if in the 90s, or maybe before that, there was some sort of that kids apparently we're not potty training as easily as they were in my generation. By that I mean, it took them longer to get through toilet training, so diapers were made bigger so that someone can wear them For longer periods of time, meaning that instead of being trained by say two to four, some people may not train Until they are six years old or more.

When I was a kid, mothers and fathers would run through a Time period and basically what would happen was that your parents would train you probably about 1 1/2 to two years old. or maybe they waited until you were 2 1/2. then they would probably help you train, sold by the time you were three Or 3 1/2, you were totally out of diapers. I was out of diapers myself very early in life, because all I would have to tell my mom is that I needed to go, or I tell my dad the same thing, and they would come get me.  Because I was able to tell my parents that I needed to go, because we had a system in place, I was able to get out of diapers A lot faster than any kids the same age Period of course, I didn't really get all the way out of diapers for awhile, because when I went somewhere, my mother would make sure I was wearing a pair of rubber pants underneath Of anything that I was wearing. I was also wearing those rubber pants when I went to the beach or anywhere else when my parents would think that it would be appropriate, because I couldn't actually get to the bathroom myself without their help. if I could tell them that I could go or needed to go, they would, they would help me and that would not be a problem. I didn't like to be wet or messy myself, so is always a good thing when I was able to tell my parents that I needed to go and I felt better about it. It's like this

Of course, you also have to realize that there were kids that probably were having trouble training. this is the reason why size 6 and size 7 diapers were created. some kids just don't take the training as easy as others, so probably the diaper companies decided that that was a niche that they needed to take care of, and because that was the case, they were able to make money. they made the lups in the under jams and the easy ups and whatever else they made, and by that they made sure that this particular segment of the population was covered.

Being that people were disabled, or having trouble with mobility like I was sometimes, there are probably people who had Double training and they had accidents. @hlcl Is correct when she states that part of the problem is that a kid has to be able to show readiness, otherwise it doesn't matter how much you want to train that kid, if the kid isn't physically ready emotional ready mentally ready and a has the actual cognitive ability to understand what it is that they have to do when they see a toilet, it doesn't matter how many times or how often or how hard you try to train that kid: that kid will fight you all the way Until the cows come home screaming and carrying on, and nothing will get done. what needs to happen is a kid has to get to the point where they notice the difference between being dry and being wet or being wet and Messy, Versus being dry period if a kid can't determine the difference between being wet and messy, and be able to put one and one together, meaning that if they go in their diaper, they Have to be able to know that if they go, they make a mess or they're wet period they also have to determine that that is not what people want them to do as they're learning how to use the toilet! it is one thing to train somebody to use the toilet, and it is always appropriate for a youngster to have accidents, because they are expected to learn to use that toilet. Some people take a lot longer than others to get to that particular milestone, so they can keep themselves Dry during the day.

It is also another thing entirely to expect a kid to be dry at night. This is because a kid is not going to be awake, and they're going to be sleeping. if a kid is sleeping, they are not going to be worrying about getting up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, if they sleep so soundly that They don't wake up. it is not uncommon for a young child learning that skill not to be able to be dry at night, or for a kid to use their diaper at night,, because they have to learn the skill one Thing at a time period once they learn both skills, and they're able to put them together, and be able to understand what it is they are doing, and then be able to say that they need to go, then they can go and try to be dry during the day and the night time.

Kids also may not be keen on potty training: there may be kids that pick it up real fast, especially girls i'm understanding. some. some people just don't pick it up as fast as others, while others pick it up so fast and they're out of diapers by three. When they do not achieve potty training by 2 1/2 or three years old, or they don't achieve it by 3 1/2, then you have to determine whether there is a reason for them not Achieving this milestone. are they afraid of it, is something done that scares them, are they emotionally ready physically ready emotionally ready? if you say no to any of these questions, then the idea then becomes the kid may not be ready: if it causes major problems emotional Meltdowns and everything else because they're afraid or they just don't wanna do it yet, then the best way to do it is to not push the limit and allow the kid to tell you when they are ready.

If a kid ends up learning to potty train, and they're able to learn because they see their brothers or sisters cousins cousins or other friends doing it, that is peer pressure, and peer pressure is one of the things that can help a kid learn it because they want to be like their friends. If for some reason the kid cannot learn or does not wish to learn how to party train at the time someone wants to train them, it doesn't matter how hard you push or how much you try to argue with them, they just won't learn or they just won't do it. in this case, the best way is to allow the kid to wear diapers: and by wearing diapers I mean wear them 24 hours a day, and every single time they wet or messed themselves, that they should be using the potty.  after a while, it might take a while, but a kid may end up finding out that they don't like it when they are wet or messy, or they tell you they don't like wearing diapers. By engrossing the kid and wearing diapers 24/7 for longer than normal, this will allow the kid to tell To tell you when he is ready. if a kid is ready all the way around, and they're sick and tired of wearing wet or messy diapers, that is one of the things that will force the issue, and then the kid may be ready to learn Potty training period sometimes training takes longer for other kids, but at least if you let the kid make the decision by giving them plenty of opportunities to use the bathroom, but allowing them to use the diaper, they can determine that they don't like what diapers or they don't like dirty diapers, so they may end up begging you to train.

For kids that are disabled: they might not have the control or the ability to potty train.  This is white diapers exist: not everybody is going to be able to train at the same time, not everyone is going to be able to succeed, and not everyone can be toilet trained. For those types of individuals who cannot be trained or They find that it is harder to train them because of their mental or physical disability, wearing diapers probably will become something that will be an everyday occurrence. in this kind of situation, it is always good to help the kid learn, and just let them be kids. If you're disabled, there are there are ways that kids can go to school if they're wearing diapers, but most schools want kids to be out of diapers by 6: if you're disabled that can also change.

So as I'm saying:  The best way is to allow your kid So train if they want to and if they're able to. they also let you know that they know what they're expected to do and they have the actual physical Physical ability to do the task. they have to be ready all the way around, and the best way to do that is to support the kid all the way. if they have to wear diapers longer, so be it! as she changing diapers is not the end of the world, and sometimes it's easier to change a kids diaper than it is to take them to the toilet! this is not to say that a kid should be lazy and not use the toilet, but in some cases wearing diapers is a lot easier because you just have to clean them up and change them rather than to have to go through the motions especially if a kid is not ready, or is trying to fight you.

I wonder If the people in my generation would have agreed with the sentiment that you allow a kid to wear diapers longer until they are ready to train?  I know when I was in rehab centers, they always diapered us because they didn't want to take us to the bathroom, or they didn't want us to go to the bathroom by ourselves because we would fall out of bed they said, or That we would hurt ourselves. even though I was able to show them that, I was diapered a lot myself. this is probably why I am a diaper lover, and why I have the Feelings I do about diapers. i'm not complaining, but that's basically what it is. you can you can psychoanalyze what is going on in a kid's mind, but technically if a kid is not ready, it doesn't matter what you do, they will throw a temperature bigger than the San Andreas fault, And a parent would have to decide how to handle it. sometimes parents decide to just let a kid be the guide, rather than the parent Pushing the issue. sometimes it's a lot easier to let a kid be a kid, because they only live that way once, and hopefully they learn that skill: if they can't, then of course there are diapers available for their use should it be necessary.

Brian

[deewet]

As I read about the issues mentioned above, I noticed that a large group of individuals are not included or even mentioned.  I am speaking of the ladies that have weak bladders due to many reasons, the majority said to be childbirth changing things, and the gents that with older age encounter issues due mainly to prostrate health or lack of.

The point, a majority of the diaper companies' media adds are focused today on these groups of people, who were not mentioned in the discussions above?  I believe you should add a group4 for this group to be accurate with your assertions?

[2sail2]

Companies need to make money and show more and more profits to shareholders, so they try to expand their market or look for new markets and new products.  All the babies and bed-bound have been marketed to, so now they need more people.  Why not tell everyone, why stop for a bathroom or live your life around one?  I sure do, even though I may have one on.   Why not tell mothers to be, stop those smelly leaks and buy our discreet and odor clearing product?  You should wear just in case.  I saw yet  another photo of an actress (?) pregnant lady showing the tell tale seam and waist band  above her pants.  Who else can we market to?  Pilots, truckers?  Dogs, Cats?

 

 

 

[Alyeskabird]

Actualy, marketing to truckers would be a good idea, but, the trash generaly sold in the US market would not work for a trucker, at the lest, they would have to come up with something at the level  of like the rearz mermaid's tale or simular levels of absorbancy. Truckers drink lots of fluids during the day. Hell, I would go through like a gallon of soda a day when I was driving. Never mind the coffee and other things. Hell, before I stoped driving I was moving more and more to wearing all the time just to save the time for hitting the bathroom.

On the issue of potty training, there is a lot involved in that, children nowadays, using disposables are actualy under a lot less pressure to train, after all, if they do not feel wet, they are not effected by it, and to some extent are not going to care. Cloth diapers, when wet can and will become uncomfortable once they reach a certain amount of wetness, this incuraging the child to notice that they wet, and to start dealing with it so they are not feeling uncomfortable.  This is also why there is a noticable diference in the time taken to train a child for using the potty to poop. It also gets a little flaky cause some kids do not want to see there poop geting flushed away, and will deliberately contunue to use there diaper, even if they did not need to.

The other thing to consider, a lot of pressure was put on children to potty train back in the day,  if only because the perents did not want to deal with the diapers, and the clothes washing and the rest. Gotta remember, even with early disposables, blowouts and more where quite common. Heck, I think it was loves even had a comercial about how good they where at holding everything. Perants pushed potty training just so they would have less work to do, and so they had less responsabilitys around the house, so they had more free time for themselves. With more and more perents being thoes helicopter perents,  your seeing a lot less pressure put on children to potty train early, or in some cases at all. Never mind the perents that would rather not potty train there child, if only to force the child to be more dependent. 

There are a number of articles on this subject, and I have not really kept up with it, cause I do not have kids, so I might be off on a few points. What I can tell you as a fact, a soaked cloth diaper gets uncomfortable rather quickly, and even when wearing cloth overnight, I am incuraged to get up ontime, or even early, just so I can change out of my soaked diaper. With a good disposable, there is not that feeling of wet discomfort, it just feels a little damp at most, and I might not change out of the night diaper for a few hours after I get up. Children can and do notice that diference as well, and it effects the pressures put on the child to potty train.

[babykeiff]

11 hours ago, deewet said:

As I read about the issues mentioned above, I noticed that a large group of individuals are not included or even mentioned.  I am speaking of the ladies that have weak bladders due to many reasons, the majority said to be childbirth changing things, and the gents that with older age encounter issues due mainly to prostrate health or lack of.

The point, a majority of the diaper companies' media adds are focused today on these groups of people, who were not mentioned in the discussions above?  I believe you should add a group4 for this group to be accurate with your assertions?

That group is within #2 group - Those who are / choose to be diaper dependant due to failure to obtain full toilet control.

Puberty changes the body internally slightly, and one of the changes affects how the information is fed to the brain from the bladder and its sphincters. Pregnancy places extra pressure on the bladder due to the mass of the unborn child pressing on the bladder. This reduces the bladder capacity during pregancy which means that the female will need to void more often. If there was any issue with bladder control before pregnancy, birth can exagerate the issue which, for some, results in bladder leakage.

The key point here is that there was a prior issue with bladder control. Almost all females that have post childbirth bladder issues were bedwetters circa puberty AND were late in toilet training. A fact that is being hidden here is that a baby almost from birth is fully capable of controlling their bladder and bowels and that most can be toilet trained even prior to them being able to walk. The 12-18 month range is based on the babies ability to stand and walk to a potty.

The earlier one is taught a task, the easier it is for that person is to gain that skillset. The later one it taught a task, the less able that person is able to retain and/orm use that skillset effectively. This is sometimes referred to as the 'teachability factor'.

• Humans learn, in order, communication, co-ordination, and interactive skills. This is also the priority order. A childs drive is to gain feedback / praise from whom it is trying to impress, (which most childish adults never stop trying). If the childs career is constanly praising the child for filling its diapers, the child will repeat that as often as possible despite a full diaper making the child uncomfortable. If, on the otherhand, the childs career introduces the child to a toilet etc, the child will attempt to please its career by using the toilet as often as possible. 

Since the child learns bladder / bowel control early (it doesn't have to learn - it just changes it s behaviour) as the childs body grows, the child adapts easily to the key basics it has learnt.

• When one fully understands the reasons for the basics in a subject, they can easily build on these basics to become expert with the subject. However, if one 'glosses' over the key basics of a subject, the second+ levels will be out of their reach.

These two bullet points are two of the many reasons that people have failed toilet training.

1. They haven't learnt the basics early enough and are reverting to their habitual behaviour of childishly trying to please another by filling their pants
2. They also are inable to adapt to their changing body.

   Quote: Data (Brent Spiner), Star Trek, Next Generation - "My operation depends on specifications that do not change. I will never know the experience of growing up or tripping over my own feet."

   Machines are designed to  be very specific. Humans are constantly changing, and have to constantly adapt to the changes.

As you have stated, these ladies leak urine post child birth. That states that their bladder is filling which means that their sphincters are closed to allow this. It also states that their sphincters open to allow urine out. Each movement of the sphincter requires direction from the brain. That equates that one can control their sphincters. As a result, one can train themselves to get to a bathroom before they leak urine. To do this requires them repeating the same tasks that they did as a 1-4 year old learning to potty train = going around on a tiled / lino floor naked from the waist down and with any urge, sitting on a potty to void. Also, setting an alarm to remind them every 15 minutes to sit on a toilet, and slowly increasing the duration in 5 minute intervals until they reach a time period of staying dry for 4 hours.

In simple terms, as long as one is capable of voiding bladder and/or bowels, ie controlling their sphincters, there is a possibility of them improving that control. As a result, diaper dependence in that case is purely a choice, not an eventuality.

Many people here are aware of that and freely chose to wear some form of diaper / protection.

As I have stated, as has @2sail2, @rusty pins, @wetbedmo, @hlcl, @~Brian~, @Alyeskabird and others (no I am not listing the entire D.D. population), diaper manufacturing companies entice consumers to use their products for one main reason - to increase their profit.

Cloth diapers plus plastic / rubber pants work to protect clothes / furniture from wet / mess. Disposable diapers do the same, but can only be used once and then thrown away. At the average cost of €/$ 1+ per diaper, it is costing the parents of a high proportion of children in the world €/$ 1 every time they take a sh*t / p*ss! How long would a public toilet exist if the coin slot on the door only took €1 / $1? People climb over the door / slide under the door to save the 1p / 5p / 10p or whatever is the local cost (it has been years since I went into a public toilet - and yes, I wear diapers 24/7/365 out of choice and failed toilet training)

[rusty pins]

5 hours ago, 2sail2 said:

Companies need to make money and show more and more profits to shareholders, so they try to expand their market or look for new markets and new products.  All the babies and bed-bound have been marketed to, so now they need more people.  Why not tell everyone, why stop for a bathroom or live your life around one?  I sure do, even though I may have one on.   Why not tell mothers to be, stop those smelly leaks and buy our discreet and odor clearing product?  You should wear just in case.  I saw yet  another photo of an actress (?) pregnant lady showing the tell tale seam and waist band  above her pants.  Who else can we market to?  Pilots, truckers?  Dogs, Cats?

I 100% agree, and I've seen it for years.  Even a few years ago when Depends came out with "Underwearness" and any excuse or example they could think of to get anyone and everyone to give up their regular cotton briefs and panties.  Even pro football players wearing them "just in case".  Thankfully it didn't work and there are enough sane people in the world to see through their foolish marketing ploy!  

[babykeiff]

Just now, rusty pins said:

I 100% agree, and I've seen it for years.  Even a few years ago when Depends came out with "Underwearness" and any excuse or example they could think of to get anyone and everyone to give up their regular cotton briefs and panties.  Even pro football players wearing them "just in case".  Thankfully it didn't work and there are enough sane people in the world to see through their foolish marketing ploy!  

I 100% agree too.... but is there enough sane people in the world considering the number of people who have trained themselves to be diaper dependent i.e. a large proportion of the members here plus plus - not saying that they are not sane, but we are all mad in our own way ?

[BabyBoi91]

On 9/11/2022 at 3:43 PM, ken2988 said:

From what I could read from medical publications there has been an increase in the level of incontinence which can be attributed to many different factors.  From what I can read the biggest factors are a lack of exercise, obesity, and the average age people live to increasing.  Women make up around 85% of those who are actually incontinent, and men make up about 15% of those who are incontinent.  I would mention the number of people that are incontinent, but it appears those numbers are all over the place, so I really can't find any reliable numbers.  I have seen numbers that go anywhere from 5%-50% of the population which to me reads like people are just tossing numbers out there.

One thing I did read was that among those who have prostate surgery to reduce the side of the prostate, roughly 40-80% of those patients end up with urge incontinence due to the surgery.   Considering the surgery is typically to fight cancer, that is a good trade off!

Yes, obesity and DM2 are the biggest culprits with adult incontinence.

 

as far as potty training, parents in the 2020s are potty training earlier than they were 10 years ago in the US. The average age a child becomes potty trained is now 2.5 years old . The average age of starting potty training (again, average) is shortly after turning age 2. 
 

this is in contrast to the 2000s / 2010 time when the average age of potty training was age 3 or higher. 
 

and in the 80s, it was not uncommon for children to be potty trained in their late 3s or early 4s.

So while people may think that disposables “make parents lazier” or somehow disincentivize toilet training. The decrease in age over time doesn’t support that. 
 

And while some people brag about toilet training at 18 months, toilet training too early can actually be quite harmful as it can lead to urinary / fecal retention. Ironically , toilet training Too Early actually has a high risk of childhood incontinence due to instilling behaviors that lead to retention (and retention can often lead to incontinence in children). 

[hlcl]

 Some people train later.  I have heard of kids who were removed from a neglectful situation.  The kids were 5 years old and not toilet trained.  They were still in diapers.  After being placed in a proper environment,  they were able to be toilet trained. 

 There was a time when it was believed that people with autism or developmental disabilities couldn't be toilet trained.  Often times they can be trained.  It might take longer or they might need different training methods. I believe everyone should be able to live up to their toilet training potential. 

 I have seen pictures of kids in orphanages who were wearing diapers even though they were past diaper wearing age.  I think the staff finds it easier to change diapers than to toilet train someone. 

[babykeiff]

16 hours ago, BabyBoi91 said:

..toilet training too early can actually be quite harmful as it can lead to urinary / fecal retention. Ironically , toilet training Too Early actually has a high risk of childhood incontinence due to instilling behaviors that lead to retention (and retention can often lead to incontinence in children). 

According to @BabyBoi91, people born before 1965 (year disposable diapers were invented, current age of 50-60) have suffered all their life from urinary and/or faecal retention! Following this logic, so have all the people in the world, which include India, and the major population centre of the world where 60%+ of the world population live, and where diapers are normally not used. Instead, babies / children go around in split pants and processes used include elimination communication etc. Other children in that part of the world use cloth diapers unlike the so called 'developed world' (USA etc.) that primarily use disposable diapers.

Even earlier than that in the developed world, plastic / rubber pants were not used (they didn't exist) and a baby / child was 'potted' over a pot on a regular basis. Children of the 1950s and earlier, due to the lack of washing machines, never messed in a diaper, and very rarely wet in one. The 12 - 18 month time that children were said to be potty trained is based on the ability of that child to stand and maybe walk to a potty with / without assistance. In most cases, babies / children never used a diaper and were almost potty trained from birth.

Actually, placing a baby in a diaper is almost cruelty - forcing the child to wet and/or mess on itself where the child does not know the difference. As with everything, this becomes habitual, and the longer a habit exists, the harder it is to break. When it comes to toilet training, the child is told that wetting and/or messing on itself is not acceptable. This is the same child that only a few short weeks / months prior was convinced to force poop out of its body into a diaper and was praised for that event. This is the same child that has spent the last number of years waddling (cause the bulk of a diaper spreads its legs) and suffering nappy rash plus other skin damage from a wet and/or messy diaper, was taken from play etc. cause the smell of its soiled diaper was offending someone, has woken up in the middle of the night soaked scared etc., was striped naked in public many many times, sometimes in the cold so another can check and/or change its diapers! 

.... and we do all this because P&G or some other corporate company tells us it is the best for our offspring, flesh and blood, someone we would die to protect! These corporate companies as well as the medical industry sell us LIES to increase their profits at our expense, and are we intelligent enough not to fall for this?

The etymology of the word 'nappy' is adopted from French nappe, which translates to napkin, or a piece of cloth. This came from the behaviour of French aristocrats etc. having the privates of their babies covered with a white cloth in a form of protecting the babies’ modesty at times when visitors came to their estate. This was copied, as was much French and German behaviour, by the English who were attempting to seem as they were 'posh' (another term coined by Americans from ship travel - Port Out Starboard Home). In that timescale, the toilet was a hole over a pit. In the general public's homes, babies were allowed to run around naked. The diaper term, that is used in America etc., was the name for a type of weave in cloth, and came to America with emigrants. American terms and language use product trade names rather than item names. One can see this with Hoover rather than vacuum cleaner, a Coke or Pepsi rather than cola drink etc. This is from the influence and manipulation of advertising and marketing. It has got so bad that most people believe that a decorated fir tree and red trim are the symbols of Christmas. The fir tree came from Germany's black forest where in the winter months, for safety, candles etc. were placed on these trees to light the way. One year, as a gift from Germany to England, a fir tree was sent to the English royalty. The red trim was created by the Coca-Cola Company in an advertising campaign. Even the date of Christmas being December 25th was a decision made in Rome to usurp the mid-winter festival. The whole concept of Christmas being mid-winter does not align with the Israeli behaviour and seasons. Israeli summer / autumn are December and animals would still be in the fields, not in a barn. Also, a separate barn would not exist, but since the houses are built on stilts, animals would be housed under the house.

To me, it seems that @BabyBoi91, the self claimed Health Professional is so misinformed, it is almost comical. One can assume that he is the result of the USA concept of 'No Child Left Behind', but this lack of education is worldwide. If we compare the level of language used in a Shakespearean play compared to that of a modern film or stage show, we can derive the difference in comprehension between 1500s and today. Most of Shakespeare’s work takes today’s education level people time to understand / decode what he is saying, however, on original production, the average person could easily understand the subtlety and the comedy within on first hearing. There are competing theories that claim the average person of 1500 could not read or write. That, for some of that era, was true, but if we look at the way information was passed along, via story and parable, people were still being educated even without the ability to read and/or write.

From my own perspective, the growth and use of the Internet has done the opposite of what it promised. The internet's promise was to increase the overall level of knowledge and intelligence in the world. It seems, to me, that the more accessible information is; the less it is being used. For the members here that left education in the 1990s, they had to research subjects with actual books - i.e. go to a library and look up indices (the plural of index) etc., where the younger generation have had the advantage of internet searches. This same comparison can be made between prior generations due to the invention and widespread use of the calculator. Those people born earlier than 1960 did not have the use of calculators, and as a result, had to memorize two and three digit calculations. That age group working with numbers, (retail, engineering etc.) could calculate in their head complex calculations faster than any machine of today.

Following the logical flow of this, is the world heading to a scenario that follows the 2006 film 'Idiocrasy', where the premise of that film is the progressive reduction in I.Q. levels per generation to such an extent that the two main characters seem to be the smartest / most intelligent people in the world as opposed to the people of that era.

The responses of some people on this site tell me that some already have reached that level!

[nappylover78]

Being "dry" is overrated  

[CodHero24]

Does anyone else actually have memories around the time they were potty-trained?

I remember being awoken, confused in the middle of the night, walked to the bright lights of my bathroom by my parents for a "timed wetting".

I also remember being very jealous that other children were allowed to wear diapers, but that I was not allowed to wear them...

When I needed to use the potty as a child, I remember it feeling very "Un-Natural" to hold it in until a bathroom was available.

I never liked the concept of placing my butt directly onto a toilet seat where other people have placed their butts.....

It always seemed like a better option to use a diaper.

I felt like I was just using the potty to "fit in", but deep down inside I always knew that I wanted to be back in diapers.

And don't even get me started on "Porta-Potties".

Those things are so gross, hot and smelly, and you can't even wash your hands after...

And Toilet Paper DOES NOT clean as well as Baby Wipes do...

 

 

[Little Cub Pants]

3 minutes ago, CodHero24 said:

Does anyone else actually have memories around the time they were potty-trained?

I remember being awoken, confused in the middle of the night, walked to the bright lights of my bathroom by my parents for a "timed wetting".

I also remember being very jealous that other children were allowed to wear diapers, but that I was not allowed to wear them...

When I needed to use the potty as a child, I remember it feeling very "Un-Natural" to hold it in until a bathroom was available.

I never liked the concept of placing my butt directly onto a toilet seat where other people have placed their butts.....

It always seemed like a better option to use a diaper.

I felt like I was just using the potty to "fit in", but deep down inside I always knew that I wanted to be back in diapers.

And don't even get me started on "Porta-Potties".

Those things are so gross, hot and smelly, and you can't even wash your hands after...

And Toilet Paper DOES NOT clean as well as Baby Wipes do...

 

 

I completely agree with you buddy! I HATE porta potties. And to answer your question, I have quite a few memories of my potty training, it was a disaster!?♥️? So much so that I was potty trained at the age of six years old. I remember having accidents left and right, all the time. I even wore diapers to kindergarten. And I had a lot of accidents AFTER potty training too. I was so NOT ready for Big Boy underwear!? LOL!? I also found it to be very unnatural to hold it in until I was sitting on a potty, especially for poo-poo. I did NOT want to go poo-poo on the potty at ALL!??????? I was never woken up in the middle of the night to go potty, thank God! But if I was, I just would have demanded a diaper to go Pee-pees or poo-poos in, then I'd go back to sleep. I'm glad you and me found a place that we can both fit in, and NOT have to worry about using the big, icky potty!? And ALSO a big, giant, Diapered community!?☺️???♥️?????♥️????

[Greg03]

This was really not the discussion I was hoping to have here. The age and trends of the potty training of infants are totally irrelevant here.

 

My point is that it seems that far more people now have some form of incontinence. By people I mean adults who are younger than the typical age for these issues to develop. No, they are not full time diaper wearers but do wear protection regularly.

the huge increase in products available for this would suggests there’s an increased demand. Sorry, but middle aged adults don’t just start wearing incontinence products because of marketing campaigns.