Should ABs be Socially Accepted as A Lifestyle?

[Guest]

Wow, it certainly seems that I opened a can of worms with

[Kaliborio]

I think ABs need to be accepted to the point that people don't immediately scream "paedophile! deviant!" whenever ABs appear, but that's all I ask.

[eatenbywo1ves]

At least we get to live in countries where we dont have to worry about a lynch mob because we socially deviate from the norm, i guess thats actually really nice now that i think about if.

[Personalias]

3 hours ago, MommySkylar said:

1.

[Elfy]

Out of those only number two seems to be true.

That store is a bad idea in general because I find it hard to believe it is profitable... Seems unnecessary when you client base will all be buying online and that is where a majority of their business will come from. I half think they opened that store hoping for some kind of outrage for the attention. But that's a different subject entirely.

I haven't heard of any ABDL pride events in this country... Maybe a few people have gone to general pride events as littles but it certainly isn't a big thing or anything that has got any kind of press that I know of.

Number 3 is just the vocal minority (if you mean the ones who wilfully expose themselves in public) and they get just as much flak from people within the ABDL community as from the outside world. The people making themselves, and the rest of us, look stupid and perverted without the self-awareness to realise what is happening.

If you mean people just wearing under their clothes everyday... I think that has been happening for a long time. It isn't a big deal to wear discreetly when in public, in fact I'm surprised every time I hear someone say they are scared to do so because it is such a natural and easy thing. I wouldn't say it has anything to do with acceptance, it is more about people doing it once and finding out there is no problem with it and do it more.

I would also argue that society is anything but more accepting at the moment. In fact we are heading to a world which is incredibly intolerant. It seems every country in Europe and North America are becoming increasingly hostile of anyone not born there, there is a big backlash against the SJW's who are going overboard in what they are doing and are derided whilst doing more harm for themselves than good. Even the LGBT movement seems to be stopping short in a lot of places, particularly when it comes to the T part. Things have undoubtedly improved for LGBT's from a rights standpoint but in terms of attitudes... Still a lot of problems in a lot of places. Anyway, that is the end of the political stuff... I just wanted to say that despite the common attitude online that society is getting more accepting of everything, that perhaps everything isn't as accepting as is commonly thought.

[Dirty Diaper/Maxipad Lover]

I think it depends on what you mean by "accepted as a lifestyle." Obviously no one is calling for blatantly visible diapers in public to be a norm, but if your AB/DL side isn't just sexual (or isn't sexual at all,) it probably should be accepted the way pretty much anything else is. If you're wearing adult sized baby clothes, there really shouldn't be any more of a stigma associated with that than with wearing a T-Shirt instead of a dress shirt, or at the absolute worst, wearing a hoodie. Now obviously this doesn't mean you can show up for work in AB clothing instead of your work uniform, but if you go grocery shopping in an adult onesie and would be considered fully clothed if that onesie were anything else, there shouldn't be a problem. While I have no desire for people to see my diapers, as long as they're treated like any other underwear, they definitely shouldn't be a problem either. I do think that it shouldn't be cringe-inducing to find out someone wears diapers though. If anything, more acceptance could lead to more stores willing to sell better brands in local settings (especially with a larger population of seniors) and subsequently more profit from people like us. As a lifestyle I don't think AB/DL should be any different than any other lifestyle that has its own sort of attire and attitude, but real "lifestyle" AB/DLs just aren't as common as the casual fetishist who wears for fun, which is part of the reason why a push like this hasn't happened yet. Get an openly AB/DL celebrity to draw attention to us though and you'll probably see some changes in how accepted we are.

[Bettypooh]

23 hours ago, MommySkylar said:

[FretaBWet]

I'm all for more public acceptance.

[Diapered Jason]

43 minutes ago, FretaBWet said:

I'm all for more public acceptance.

[Elfy]

I think something else that is often overlooked is that although it is non-sexual for some, for a lot of others there is a sexual component to wearing nappies. I've been here long enough to know there is a good sized group of people who would get off on that kind of public wearing.

I would feel very weird if I knew there were people walking getting a sexual thrill out of wearing nappies openly in front of me. I'm ABDL and I feel weird about that so I can't imagine how many non-ABDLs wouldn't like it.

What happens when, inevitably, ABDLs start wanting even more. Like breastfeeding in public, access to kids only spaces like nurseries and daycares... How would you feel if your kid was in a playground playing with a man in his 40's dressed as a baby? I'm not saying all men are perverts but I am saying that if people are concerned about people pretending to be TG to get access to women's restrooms that there would be a lot more concern over men pretending to be AB to get access to children. It is a ridiculous pipe dream to ever believe a scenario where ABDL's could just openly wear or act like that in public because of so many different reasons.

As for society accepting ABDL's but ABDL's not wearing or acting that way openly... Isn't that what already happens? Not everyone likes it but then not everyone likes that gay people exist so you are never going to get everyone to accept some things. If you didn't want to wear openly I don't know what use societal acceptance has for anyone. Does it make any difference to me whilst I'm in my apartment wearing a nappy if my neighbour would approve of it or not? Not at all.

I'm pretty sure this discussion (not this thread but every thread like this) looks ridiculous from the point of view of everyone who isn't ABDL.

[Pe@nut]

Im not a big contributer here but surely the best way to get "acceptance" is to stop ramming it down peoples throats. I mean when I hear of other fetishes I think to myself "good on em, as long as they are doing it in private or at an appropriate gathering with like minded people."

[Harumaru]

Diaper wearing definitely needs to become socially accepted, not only for the sake of AB/DLs, but first and foremost for the sake of incontinent people who face abuse, isolation and medical mistreatment because of the stigma against their condition and the least harmful tool for dealing with it. With that said, while it should be just as socially acceptable as wearing any other kind of underwear, that also means that strutting around with nothing to cover your diaper is just as wrong as walking around in nothing but any other kind of underwear. Outright AB play, however, has no place in public, just like BDSM play or otherkin-tier delusions don't.

[Rachel Emily]

On 7/14/2016 at 5:19 PM, Alvin Spacemunk said:

I think it depends on what you define as social acceptance:

Acceptance of doing what exactly and by whom?

I think we have a lot of freedom to express this side of ourselves in private and within reason in public as it is.

Precisely what I was going to ask.

[pampers212]

I would like to see AB/DL more accepted as a lifestyle, but in the context of where other fetish/lifestyles are discussed and acted out.

[AwakenEvil]

I think the general bdsm community is accepting of ABDLs. That's all I can really say I'll go as far as acceptance from a large community as a whole. The world and it's masses of vanilla dont react well to non socialize norms. Take the whole example above about foght trans people are experiencing with bathroom laws that clearly aren't an issue in any fashion but made into a talking point... could you imagine what that would look like with an ABDL element. Look at the Tykables and all the news it generated from over concerned vanilla home bodies with nothing but time and money to complain. The point is simple. We are a community that should be hidden from the world that simply will never accept the fact you want to wear a diaper and soil yourself... and I'm fine

[rusty pins]

I say to each his own.

[rosalie.bent]

'Socially acceptable' and 'Publically expressed' are two separate concepts that too many people confuse. Public behaviour is a mutual social contract that we are all expected to abide by. We all behave in a consistent and predictable fashion when we interact in public or in small groups such as work etc.We all obey the same rules and it is how society functions at large. We happily accept gays now but we still dont really accept 'gay behaviour' in public in most places. 'socially acceptable' doesnt necessarily mean we want to see it or interact with it. Social acceptance of ABDL would firstly be the absence of negative or idiotic comments about ABs and that is a long way off.

[onzen]

Until the ABDL community can purge all of the people who expose their diapers in public, or who decorate themselves in public with AB attire in over the top ways, there can be no acceptance by society, and there really shouldn't be. Every fringe group is judged by their public representation, and the more exposure you have, the more polarized the reaction will be, usually on the negative side. That's your TL;DR for the rest of what I wrote below. Wall of text follows - you were warned!

For an example of what I mean, consider the gay male community. Many (many!) years ago, being gay was very socially taboo, and gay men often had wives and children just to keep up appearances. Conforming to social norms at the time was very important - heteronormativity in particular - and a lot of that was for political reasons following WWII and during the Cold War. Keep in mind that this was during the times when people like McCarthy spoke of red scares and people were always on the lookout for abnormal activity. Ironically, McCarthy wasn't really wrong either as society has been re-discovering, so that behavior was probably for the best even if those people couldn't be honest about how they felt.

Anyway, throughout the 70s, 80s, and 90s, homosexuality grew more normalized as society was exposed to it. It was still taboo to an extent - for example, homosexuality was the brunt of many jokes during that time because it was inappropriate to discuss it openly - but with every joke comes more exposure, for better or for worse. That said, repeated display of this in the media, whether the historical portrayal of gays or some of the modern examples of ABDLs, set up the individual for chastisement should they reveal themselves to anybody else. Back in the day, many men outed themselves anyway and generally found acceptance and understanding among those with which they were close. Many others had negative experiences, of course, and there's lots of reasons behind that too.

In general, though, I think there is one crucial point: I think the gay men that found the most acceptance were those that were viewed as leading a virtuous lifestyle and not a degenerate one. For example, if you already have the respect of friends and family for being kind and just, and are seen as having agreeable moral principles, there is a certain image of you and what you do. If you change that image by adding the "but I'm also gay" part, it may be a bit of a shock, but those who know you are aware you've probably been gay for as long as they've known you and it changes nothing about the rest of your character. As a counterpoint, if you are conducting yourself in a way that is morally reprehensible (keep in mind you are being judged by your close relationships and/or society here, so this morality is relative to an extent) people will use what they think is your deviancy to explain all of your behavior that they dislike or disapprove of. It's scapegoating through and through, but that's how it works.

I think the gay community went wrong by allowing pride parades and forcing themselves into the public eye in such an inappropriate way. It seems like the most degenerate of them became the public representation of what it was to be a gay man. Imagine how the public would perceive gay men if pride events were simply scores of well dressed, well groomed men walking down a street, and affirming that yes, they are gay, and no, you can't tell just by looking. There would be not one flaw or negative side with which any observer could find fault. Instead, we see again and again the over the top displays of debauchery and the total absence of any morality or consideration of others. Most gay pride events have streets full of naked or nearly naked men, blatant sexual activity, and behavior that certainly would not generate respect from society at large, and all of that is exposed to the public for anyone to see.

I think that's why it took so long for gay rights to become a thing, in fact, because the gay community was lead by a visible and vocal minority and were constantly presenting themselves in the most inappropriate way possible. It's as if they thought any attention is good attention, but unfortunately in the real world that's not always true.

Consider also those pride events provoke a great many people to assume all gay people are like those seen in the media. That causes a lot of very polarized judgment and bias to form. But can you really blame them for feeling that way? Their most memorable exposure to homosexuality is literally naked men parading down public streets, and they have seen how homosexuality slowly went from total obscurity into the limelight. Is it any surprise they are resistant to laws and social behavior moving towards one of more acceptance of homosexuality? Is it so surprising when they see a gay character acting responsibly and respectably on TV they lump that character in with the rest of them?

It might not be fair, but that's how society works, and the easiest way to gain acceptance is not to fundamentally change the values of society, but to simply become more acceptable to society yourself. It may take longer because you're not forcing acceptance down people's throats, yes, but there will never be the negative stigma attached to a person considered "different" if their character cannot be perjured by others.

Those same stigmas, judgments, and rules of the game apply to all of us ABDLs too. Everyone who dresses inappropriately in public - whether appearing excessively babyish or exposing their diapers with reckless abandon - is effectively damaging our public image more than any invented media portrayal could. We are in control of our own image, and if we want to seek acceptance, we have to be okay with who we allow to represent us, and express strong disapproval of those who reflect on us poorly. We know this is true - we all see the news stories and cringe when someone in diapers does something stupid, and we see the interviews that ABDLs volunteer to give and would come across as quite extreme to the average person. As much as we all may want to remove the stigma of adults wearing diapers in general - certainly something that ABDLs and those who wear for medical reasons would benefit from - every time ABDLs are portrayed in media and they do not look 100% dyed-in-the-wool NORMAL we are increasing that stigma, not relieving it. We're potentially making life worse for people with incontinence - every ABDL thrust into the public eye increases the chances of an incontinent person being judged because they too wear diapers.

Long story short - and it's been a long post - the best thing we could do for our public image, outside of not having one at all, is to let regular men and women be our representatives. People that look average, dress normally, and participate in society like everyone else. They have to be so normal that you'd never guess they were ABDLs. And if those people are willing to speak simply and frankly that they wear diapers, whether because of want or need, that will be the image recalled in people's heads when they hear about ABDLs or adults wearing diapers. And that approach might actually get us somewhere.

That said, like many people in this thread have already said, for now I'd personally prefer to have no public image at all and not seek any kind of acceptance from society. I have a hunch that the people that most often want the public to accept the ABDL lifestyle are the people who themselves struggle the most to accept their own kinks. They want to remove the social stigma so they won't feel the stigma about themselves.

[rosalie.bent]

On 7/27/2016 at 3:55 PM, onzen said:

Until the ABDL community can purge all of the people who expose their diapers in public, or who decorate themselves in public with AB attire in over the top ways, there can be no acceptance by society, and there really shouldn't be. Every fringe group is judged by their public representation, and the more exposure you have, the more polarized the reaction will be, usually on the negative side. That's your TL;DR for the rest of what I wrote below. Wall of text follows - you were warned!

For an example of what I mean, consider the gay male community. Many (many!) years ago, being gay was very socially taboo, and gay men often had wives and children just to keep up appearances. Conforming to social norms at the time was very important - heteronormativity in particular - and a lot of that was for political reasons following WWII and during the Cold War. Keep in mind that this was during the times when people like McCarthy spoke of red scares and people were always on the lookout for abnormal activity. Ironically, McCarthy wasn't really wrong either as society has been re-discovering, so that behavior was probably for the best even if those people couldn't be honest about how they felt.

Anyway, throughout the 70s, 80s, and 90s, homosexuality grew more normalized as society was exposed to it. It was still taboo to an extent - for example, homosexuality was the brunt of many jokes during that time because it was inappropriate to discuss it openly - but with every joke comes more exposure, for better or for worse. That said, repeated display of this in the media, whether the historical portrayal of gays or some of the modern examples of ABDLs, set up the individual for chastisement should they reveal themselves to anybody else. Back in the day, many men outed themselves anyway and generally found acceptance and understanding among those with which they were close. Many others had negative experiences, of course, and there's lots of reasons behind that too.

In general, though, I think there is one crucial point: I think the gay men that found the most acceptance were those that were viewed as leading a virtuous lifestyle and not a degenerate one. For example, if you already have the respect of friends and family for being kind and just, and are seen as having agreeable moral principles, there is a certain image of you and what you do. If you change that image by adding the "but I'm also gay" part, it may be a bit of a shock, but those who know you are aware you've probably been gay for as long as they've known you and it changes nothing about the rest of your character. As a counterpoint, if you are conducting yourself in a way that is morally reprehensible (keep in mind you are being judged by your close relationships and/or society here, so this morality is relative to an extent) people will use what they think is your deviancy to explain all of your behavior that they dislike or disapprove of. It's scapegoating through and through, but that's how it works.

I think the gay community went wrong by allowing pride parades and forcing themselves into the public eye in such an inappropriate way. It seems like the most degenerate of them became the public representation of what it was to be a gay man. Imagine how the public would perceive gay men if pride events were simply scores of well dressed, well groomed men walking down a street, and affirming that yes, they are gay, and no, you can't tell just by looking. There would be not one flaw or negative side with which any observer could find fault. Instead, we see again and again the over the top displays of debauchery and the total absence of any morality or consideration of others. Most gay pride events have streets full of naked or nearly naked men, blatant sexual activity, and behavior that certainly would not generate respect from society at large, and all of that is exposed to the public for anyone to see.

I think that's why it took so long for gay rights to become a thing, in fact, because the gay community was lead by a visible and vocal minority and were constantly presenting themselves in the most inappropriate way possible. It's as if they thought any attention is good attention, but unfortunately in the real world that's not always true.

Consider also those pride events provoke a great many people to assume all gay people are like those seen in the media. That causes a lot of very polarized judgment and bias to form. But can you really blame them for feeling that way? Their most memorable exposure to homosexuality is literally naked men parading down public streets, and they have seen how homosexuality slowly went from total obscurity into the limelight. Is it any surprise they are resistant to laws and social behavior moving towards one of more acceptance of homosexuality? Is it so surprising when they see a gay character acting responsibly and respectably on TV they lump that character in with the rest of them?

It might not be fair, but that's how society works, and the easiest way to gain acceptance is not to fundamentally change the values of society, but to simply become more acceptable to society yourself. It may take longer because you're not forcing acceptance down people's throats, yes, but there will never be the negative stigma attached to a person considered "different" if their character cannot be perjured by others.

Those same stigmas, judgments, and rules of the game apply to all of us ABDLs too. Everyone who dresses inappropriately in public - whether appearing excessively babyish or exposing their diapers with reckless abandon - is effectively damaging our public image more than any invented media portrayal could. We are in control of our own image, and if we want to seek acceptance, we have to be okay with who we allow to represent us, and express strong disapproval of those who reflect on us poorly. We know this is true - we all see the news stories and cringe when someone in diapers does something stupid, and we see the interviews that ABDLs volunteer to give and would come across as quite extreme to the average person. As much as we all may want to remove the stigma of adults wearing diapers in general - certainly something that ABDLs and those who wear for medical reasons would benefit from - every time ABDLs are portrayed in media and they do not look 100% dyed-in-the-wool NORMAL we are increasing that stigma, not relieving it. We're potentially making life worse for people with incontinence - every ABDL thrust into the public eye increases the chances of an incontinent person being judged because they too wear diapers.

Long story short - and it's been a long post - the best thing we could do for our public image, outside of not having one at all, is to let regular men and women be our representatives. People that look average, dress normally, and participate in society like everyone else. They have to be so normal that you'd never guess they were ABDLs. And if those people are willing to speak simply and frankly that they wear diapers, whether because of want or need, that will be the image recalled in people's heads when they hear about ABDLs or adults wearing diapers. And that approach might actually get us somewhere.

That said, like many people in this thread have already said, for now I'd personally prefer to have no public image at all and not seek any kind of acceptance from society. I have a hunch that the people that most often want the public to accept the ABDL lifestyle are the people who themselves struggle the most to accept their own kinks. They want to remove the social stigma so they won't feel the stigma about themselves.

A truly superb post and I say ditto to every single part of it. We want our ABDL public representatives to be well-spoken, well-dressed, moral, upright and intelligent. We also want people to see that theycant tell when they are wearing a diaper... or not.

[Guest]

I think it should be accepted that people should mind their

Edited July 30, 2016 by Guest
spelling errors

[BabyJune]

Why can't we just enjoy an ABDL lifestyle without wanting everyone to accept it? It is a very personal thing. Do you tell everyone every time you're going to the bathroom, or anything else of a personal nature? Personally, I enjoy a very fulfilling ABDL lifestyle in the privacy of my own home and wouldn't EVER want to share what I do even with my family. The reason is simple: People who do not enjoy ABDL will wrongly associate it with pedophilia--GUARANTEED! Anything associated with babies and children is considered sacred ground, and to enjoy something reserved for young children--especially if there is a sexual aspect to it--is considered taboo. We know what other people might think isn't true, but THEY don't know that. Besides, you CAN enjoy ABDL in public if you do it discreetly. Just wear a diaper under your clothes and keep it to yourself--it's as simple as that.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

1 hour ago, BabyJune said:

Why can't we just enjoy an ABDL lifestyle without wanting everyone to accept it? It is a very personal thing. Do you tell everyone every time you're going to the bathroom, or anything else of a personal nature? Personally, I enjoy a very fulfilling ABDL lifestyle in the privacy of my own home and wouldn't EVER want to share what I do even with my family. The reason is simple: People who do not enjoy ABDL will wrongly associate it with pedophilia--GUARANTEED! Anything associated with babies and children is considered sacred ground, and to enjoy something reserved for young children--especially if there is a sexual aspect to it--is considered taboo. We know what other people might think isn't true, but THEY don't know that. Besides, you CAN enjoy ABDL in public if you do it discreetly. Just wear a diaper under your clothes and keep it to yourself--it's as simple as that.

45 years ago, we were warned agains this kind of thing. "Public space" is for the use and enjoyment of all. So to keep it from becoming a "no man's land" it was to be kept generic and "plain vanilla". There were those who warned us that the fanatics and lunatics would try to co-opt the public space for their own use and trample the rights of everyone else to "peaceful use and enjoyment". Hence my phrase "Since I do not want the public in my bedroom, I do not put my bedroom in the public square" and the anit-drunk driving PSA "Your lifestyle is your business, but when you take it on the road, it becomes everybody's business". Now I expect the usual disclaimers about not trying to usurp or do anything like that. Then why are you even bringing it up if you are not up to something? Besides, what kind of non-conformist needs the approval of others to live their life anyway?

[BigBoy]

I believe at sometime we will get to the point of being accepted as "just another kink". Like Jean like to be tied up. Bob is into leather. Joe likes being spanked. Pam and Jeff have a DD/LG relationship. Jay likes to be pampered, literally.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

YOu notice that when those subjects are discussed it is with a snicker or a giggle in the voice and it is not done in public