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I was banned with no warnings and no chance to defend myself


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So you are the sole arbiter of banning, @Glennie?  No trial, no conversation? No warning points? No moderation? Just Glennie's personal club house of only people Glennie approves?  Doesnt seems fair to me.  You are not a terrible person.  Maybe, like me, you just made a mistake?

Am I just not supposed to be here?  I cant communicate or do ANYTHING on my old account, but Im not allowed to make a second one?  You just want to be in control of who gets to talk here.

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2 hours ago, Glennie said:

so you are breaking the rules once again by having a second account. but I am the bad guy... yes you correct i am a terrible person.  

Where is this rule might I ask? How can someone know that they are bound to a single account? This is not implied and I can't find it anywhere but I'm sure seeing it referenced a lot here.

Honestly seems to me like this is just being used as an excuse to get rid of those who want to speak up against what they feel is an unjust ban. There's' literally no way for anyone to know that there's a rule against creating multiple accounts.

 

We need transparency of exactly what is and isn't allowed, clearly the "site rules" posts are out of date containing misinformation.

I think we should also have transparency of who was banned and why to hold mods accountable.

As an active user of this forum who doesn't want to break any rules it's very discouraging to me that there seems to be 2 sets of rules, the public "site rules" and than the hidden "actual rules" even if you don't break any of the "site rules" if you break one of the hidden "actual rules" that you couldn't have possibly known about than you get banned, with no trial or chance to defend yourself.

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I don't know why people are expecting trials. This isn't a criminal court, we're not going to have lawyers and a jury to discuss every decision being made! I always endeavour to give warnings before anything further unless someone was obviously a troll or something. When I started I was told when rules were broken you should send a message first, then a warning the next time, then a temporary ban and then a permanent one. It changes depending on the rule of course, for PMing without permission in the chat warnings are fine to start with but if someone is being horrendously bigoted you'll likely skip straight to warning or ban depending on severity.

A clarifcation of the rules (ie. checking them and making a new post with them all) is likely necessary. I personally didn't realise that things such as the one accunt per person rule wasn't actually written down despite being enforced since I became a mod and before!

The reason for the rule is good. It's to try to prevent people getting around bans or warnings and I've always taken time to help people who appear with a second account when the original had no black marks on it.

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45 minutes ago, Elfy said:

I don't know why people are expecting trials. This isn't a criminal court, we're not going to have lawyers and a jury to discuss every decision being made! I always endeavour to give warnings before anything further unless someone was obviously a troll or something. When I started I was told when rules were broken you should send a message first, then a warning the next time, then a temporary ban and then a permanent one. It changes depending on the rule of course, for PMing without permission in the chat warnings are fine to start with but if someone is being horrendously bigoted you'll likely skip straight to warning or ban depending on severity.

A clarifcation of the rules (ie. checking them and making a new post with them all) is likely necessary. I personally didn't realise that things such as the one accunt per person rule wasn't actually written down despite being enforced since I became a mod and before!

The reason for the rule is good. It's to try to prevent people getting around bans or warnings and I've always taken time to help people who appear with a second account when the original had no black marks on it.

I don't know if I'm expecting a trial, more so I'm expecting accountability. If a mod wrongfully bans someone for whatever reason they should be held accountable.

Obviously the punishment needs to be varied based on what the offense is. However it's very difficult to properly punish someone for doing something against the rules when they don't know that what they did was actually against the rules.

So as you mentioned rule clarification is very important, from my point of view it seems like the admins are making rules up, that's not an accusation that's just what it looks like. You can't reliably hold users accountable for their actions if there's no way to know what is and isn't allowed, you can't even say that it's their fault for not reading the rules because, well....these rules aren't anywhere to be found!

I totally understand the only 1 account rule, however I think there should be an appeals process for people who feel they were wrongfully banned. Especially if they made actual contributions to the site and weren't just a blatant troll account.

 

 

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On 8/12/2020 at 10:51 AM, DailyDi said:

Fixed the birthdate showing publicly, not sure why that option got toggled on.

Will try to be more clear on rules in the future. I thought it was enough that birthdate was a required profile field that we expected an honest answer to it.

It's been on for a long time, then.  I remember even before the lockdown, I would wonder why Little Christine had algebraic equations to figure out her age, when her birth date was right there for anyone to figure out her age with simple subtraction.

And if the field is something that can be accidentally toggled on, then that's even more reason for people to be concerned about providing their specific date of birth.  A lot of us leave a lot of bread crumbs as to who we could be and generally where in the world we live based on our posts over time.  Paradoxically,  for the vast majority of ABDLs, privacy and discretion is very important to them.  Those that want to identify themselves in public that they are ABDLs can do that right now.  But for me, I prefer to keep my own counsel.  And one thing I don't want is for everyone coming to a diaper fetish website to have the ability to know my actual date of birth.  

Looking at my profile, other items that I wouldn't want a lurker to know include my email address, and the last 3 months of where I've logged in from.  And I certainly don't want that information available to be obtained by a hacker, either.  Nor do I want a forum software update to unknowingly make these fields viewable by the public for months at a time.  

Taking a look at the Wayback Machine, I can see that the date of birth was publicly viewable included at least as far back as 2015.   

Perhaps you can provide specific reasons as to why you need to know a user's date of birth and to keep it in your records.  Because as far as I can tell, the main thing you need to know is if someone is over 18 years of age.  Once that is established, there's no need to keep the actual date of birth; an estimation should be fine.  I don't list my DOB in Facebook, Reddit doesn't need to know, and I don't bother with Adisc.  

 

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We intentionally do not spell out our age-verification methods, as doing so would provide a roadmap to skirt them.

I don't think a birth-date and verified email address is a lot to ask for.  I know Facebook DOES require your DOB as well. I will check more often to be sure privacy options are correctly set. I'm going to ask Invision if it can be set to require only the month and year.

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21 minutes ago, DailyDi said:

We intentionally do not spell out our age-verification methods, as doing so would provide a roadmap to skirt them.

I don't think a birth-date and verified email address is a lot to ask for.  I know Facebook DOES require your DOB as well. I will check more often to be sure privacy options are correctly set. I'm going to ask Invision if it can be set to require only the month and year.

Facebook required A birthdate, not necessarily the correct one.  You are specifically requiring us to provide our correct date of birth.

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2 hours ago, DailyDi said:

I don't think a birth-date and verified email address is a lot to ask for.

I don't think having updated rules to make it clear to people what exactly is expected of them is a lot to ask for.

2 hours ago, DailyDi said:

I will check more often to be sure privacy options are correctly set. I'm going to ask Invision if it can be set to require only the month and year.

I would also like the choice to hide the "real age" field entirely from public view, where mods/admins can still view it.

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This is a site run and owned by Mikey.  He can do as he likes with it, including shutting it down completely if he wants.  It's his business, we are here by his good graces only, enough said!  He can pick and choose who he wants as moderators, their function being to keep the peace and keep the site safe.  That means from personal attacks towards other members, discussions that get out of control, inappropriate photos and content, banning people who don't follow the established and posted rules, and especially underage members which is a pet peeve of mine.  There are reasons why a 17 year old can't go into a bar in the USA order alcoholic drinks and is required to provide an ID when asked.  If they provide a fake ID they can be arrested or banned from the establishment.  Trying to return to that establishment with a different ID is the same thing.  It will get you kicked out.  Same thing applies here.  If you do not give a reasonable age, get banned and try to establish another account to get back in, it's the exact same thing.  If you own a business you have the right to keep out people you don't want except in cases of being against disability laws.  You see two people fighting in the street with knives and guns yelling and screaming and they try to take it into your establishment, are you going to let them in?  OH HELL NO!  You have the right to refuse them service, same as places that post, "NO SHOES NO SERVICE".  When I worked for a world wide utility we always required ID before starting a new account.  Why?  Some reasons were for fraud as people would get their utility turned off for not paying their bill and then try to use someone else's ID or even their own name to start a new account.  When refused service until their old bill was paid in full and a deposit placed on the new account, people would get mad.  They would sometimes refuse to provide ID and when told they would be refused service, they would say, "You are a utility!  You can't deny me service!"  Oh, the uneducated people who think they know more about the law and business than those who actually work there!  The fact is it may be a utility but it's also a business and that business can deny service as long as it's within the laws pertaining to that utility.  Some of those reasons are for people who do not provide valid ID, owe an unpaid bill or are under age. Under age?  This is how the law states it.  If a person is a minor and has a utility, if they do not pay for that utility they can't be held liable for it because of being under age, unless they are legally emancipated by a court of law as being responsible for their debts and live as an adult even if they are 17 years of age.  Even then, there are other laws that would preclude a 17 year old emancipated person from being allowed to drink in a bar.  I have been a member here for close to 15 years, so I must be doing things right and following the rules.  Getting banned after 2 days and lashing out against a moderator seems like someone started out on the wrong foot at their inception here.  Bottom line is Mikey can do what he wants with HIS business!  You think his rules are out of line, Go to ADISC and see how things are there!  Last thing for now is, THANK YOU MIKEY AND ALL THE ADMINS FOR KEEPING THIS SITE SAFE AND PEOPLE IN LINE IF THEY GET OUT OF HAND!  THIS IS THE VERY BEST AB/DL SITE THERE IS!  If you have been warned or banned, there must have been a pretty good reason for it.

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1 hour ago, rusty pins said:

Bottom line is Mikey can do what he wants with HIS business!  You think his rules are out of line, Go to ADISC and see how things are there!

I agree, don't get me wrong here, I think Mikey can run this site however he pleases and In general I feel that it makes sense to require a valid birth date and what not.

However there's an issue when the rules aren't properly conveyed to people. How am I expected to follow the rules if I don't have a good grasp of what all of them are? I'm not asking for anything unreasonable here. I'm saying that there are rules that you cannot find ANYWHERE on the site. That's my problem, I don't care how Mikey and them moderate the site I don't care who they ban as I generally think they probably have good intentions. My issue is that if people are getting in trouble for rules that aren't anywhere to be found than that's not fair to anybody.

To clarify I'm not talking about the age thing, that's implied we all can agree that this site needs to be visited by ADULTS ONLY and anyone trying to be smart about it or skirt that rule should be banned absolutely, no one is saying otherwise.

It's other rules that I feel need to be established. Such as the rule allowing 1 account per-person I've accidently broken this rule. I have an account here called Kasarberang_2. When I donated to the site to get Baby Banker 2020 I was unable to access the site so I made a new account to try and get it resolved faster than the standard contact us button and it did get resolved. However had I known that making another account was against the rules I wouldn't have done so. I am visually impaired and I generally hang out on more relax sectors of the internet so not wanting to assume what the rules here were or what was and wasn't acceptable I actively went out looking for rules to the site, multiple times in fact. all I can find are these posts that are stickied titled "Site Rules" these rules seemed  fine and as they were all I could find I took them as the only rules I needed to abide by and I try my best to do so.

When this post came out though it was revealed that there are apparently rules that aren't anywhere to be found.

1. Apparently you can't make a username that makes it look like you are trying to hide your username.

2. You can't make more than 1 account.

These unlike the age rule are not implied, most sites do not have these rules and if they do they explicitly state them (because they aren't implied.)

If these rules are hidden how are we expected to know to abide by them and if these rules are hidden what other rules are hidden?

I just want the rules to be clear so everyone is on the same playing field, for the users to see a different set of rules than the moderators are told to enforce that makes for an uneven playing field and it's not fair for anyone involved.

Another thing is even if you argue that some of this stuff is implied there are people with disabilities that might not understand that implication right off the bat, simply due to a lack of social understanding, which is another reason why even the obvious should be explicitly stated.

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14 hours ago, spoonchicken said:

Damn..this thing has really taken on a life of its own, hasn't it ? Keep the input coming, folks...we're listening ???:D:thumbsup::hacker:

I think I've said everything I have to say, it's good to know people are listening though. But here's a condensed list so you don't have to go looking through my previous posts.

1. Rules need to be transparent and easy to find. There should never be any rules that mods know and users don't know. There should also not be any "implied" rules as this could alienate people with certain disabilities, what is implied to you might not be implied to everyone else.

2. Mods should enforce the rules consistently, if 2 separate users break the same rule than they should get the same punishment. If one person is met with a warning and another with a ban even if they did the exact same crime that's unfair for both the users and the mods.

3. There should be a clear and easy way to appeal a ban, some people may have been banned due to a misunderstanding and they should be able to give their side of the story. Obviously this wont fix most bans but it might resolve others. This post is a perfect example, had there been a proper way to appeal bans this post wouldn't exist and "Anonymous" might be here right now under a fixed username and age.

4. More privacy settings! Currently their are certain fields that are required to be accurate but some may not wish to disclose to everyone on the site. Birthday is one, but even though birthday isn't public "Real Age" is, there should be a way to hide this field as well. Privacy setting should also be reviewed regularly (at least after every forum software upgrade) to prevent possible resetting. The birthday field was public since 2015 apparently and somehow no one noticed until after this post.

 

Some of these things I doubt will be implemented, others I think might have a good chance. Either way I'm putting it out there as I think it's important to speak up about what I feel is fair and just.

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Hi,

OP here.

@DailyDi was kind enough to reactivate my original account provided i gave an alternate username and birthday.
So i thank him for that. I would also like to thank others who have participated in this discussion whether they agreed  with me or not.
I did not expect this topic to get so many replies. Although I do find the discussion that came from it important.
And because for some reason I'm giving an Oscar acceptance speech I would really like to thank @kasarberang for articulating in such a nice way what i feel went wrong (especially in his last post)

All in all I think the big problem was communication (ironic on a message board) first of all as kasarerbang said in so far as it concerns  the rules but also where it concerns communication between admins and users: All that had to happen for me to change what was requested was simply to ask.

Maybe in the future we  simply talk to each other.

@Glennie no hard feelings. I apologize for calling you an idiot. If one thing follows from this; is that I hope next time something like this happens you take the time to talk to the person in question. I think that in general a person can be reasonable if given a chance.

I hope you all have a nice weekend

The user formerly known as Anonymous

Edited by iamnotanonynous
correcting typos like double words and forgotten s for plural
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@DailyDi

I believe that it IS important for us as users to know whether we are talking to someone who is an adult or not:  Sometimes, we have people who try to "skirt the rules" and when they do, someone usually catches them.  It is important because like in chat, if someone SAYS they are 18, or 21 or older, the birth date and the real age should be verifiable by whatever means you use.  @Elfy says that in chat, if there is bad stuff going on in a conversation, you are SUPPOSED to report it to a chat mod immediately, or you could be banned yourself for engaging someone in this behavior:  That means:    You don't engage, and you will NOT be punished:  but how are we as users supposed to know, other than our "gut feelings" about someone possibly being underage?  Being a former IRC Server Operator, this is something that you are always on the lookout for, and if I suspect something that is not right, I will report it, because I want to make sure that this site is around for a LONG LONG time, and I don't want to see a troll or a foolish asshat causing trouble here:  We are an ADULT SITE, and I would hate to lose it because of people who are not willing to follow the rules.

@spoonchicken handles this well:  If he suspects someone, he will engage them in a conversation:  He will determine if someone is underage, using the methods they use, and if it is found to be a person who is legit, there is no problem, if NOT, the person is banned for being underage.    I SPECIFICALLY set my current age, and signed up for Age Verification so that I WILL NOT have to worry about anyone thinking that I am UNDER 21:  this protects me from being banned for this offense.

Real Age and Birthday have a good function: But, how do we KNOW that some fool who IS underage isn't setting their birthday to to a year that MAKES them LOOK like they are over 21?  @spoonchicken has caught this type of behavior too:  suffice to say, it is kind of amusing to see some guy try to wiggle out if spoon catches them - I never want to be in a position where I THINK someone is over 21, I engage them, and later find out that I am talking to a M I N O R!!

The rules are set for a reason:  Clarification and updates to all Rules and Policies is a good idea:  Being that I was in a position of authority on my home server (Tallahassee Freenet) before we lost our connection, and because I am an admin on my own server, and run webpages and a small forum for my Thrift Store, I HAVE to make the same type of decisions that anyone who is showing "admin" here on DD:  Admin level individuals as well as moderators are held to a high standard, and are trusted with the tools we are given to do our JOBS:  When you have the tools, you have to make decisions that are in the BEST INTEREST of your userbase, while maintaining security and safety and integrity of the processes. 

Notice I did not use the word "POWER":  I was taught when I was about 18 or so, that the idea that someone has POWER over the userbase has to be extremely careful:  Respect and integrity are EARNED, and if you show by your actions that you are able to use the "tools" in a responsible manner, and that you are able to try to solve problems in a fair manner, you will have more respect than someone who goes "rouge" and starts using the tools given in a manner that they were NOT intended to be used.  One thing I had to be careful of is someone who wanted to get "even" with one of my decisions:  They would commit a server ban level offense, then COMPLAIN to the Admin, and then watch me squirm:  I am VERY CAREFUL about this, because I want to protect the server, and the people who have entrusted me with that responsibility -   I have been in that position, and I have also been on the receiving end of criticism because someone thinks I am "cop" or a "warden" and I am just out to "get someone"  This is far from the truth.

Being in a position of authority means that you are looked up to, and respected:  This is EARNED:  If you EARN it, you don't want to lose it: To me, this means someone who takes responsibility for the welfare of his userbase, it means that you TRUST the individuals to make the decisions that you may make, and it means that you TRUST the people who you give the tools to: it means that YOU also have respect for your own processes, and it means that you are willing to take a look at a decision, and be FAIR in the decisions made, and not to let the power you have go to your head........

I prefer to say that I am a "tool available to provide a service to individuals."  The service to individuals means that I have to do the best I can, uphold rules and regulations, clarify them, assist the userbase, and remember that If given the tools, they CAN be taken away - POWER can be used in GOOD ways, or BAD:  How you use the tools you are given, along with the way you provide a service to the individual is always something that you always strive to do:  To serve to the best of your ability. 

EVERYONE makes mistakes: even @DailyDi as he and the rest of us have emotions, consciousnesses, feelings, beliefs and things that make us who we are: we all may have bad days: but we can't sometimes help that, but being an admin is not a "power trip" position:  it means that you are given a position of honor, and you are expected to act in the best interest of everyone:  Emotions and beliefs are factors, but if you always give it your best, and you KNOW you have given your best, then you have nothing to worry about.

All Admins on DD have done what they think is right:  Mikey owns this site, so he will make the decisions, and perform actions, updates, maintenance, and delegate authority to those whom he trusts:  Being an Admin is NOT an easy job, as @Glennie has stated in an earlier post:  It has its good points and bad: I respect the team here, and I have confidence in their ability to perform the duties that they perform.

Take a Bow, Guys, and Thank You for making DD a SAFE place for us to play and chat :D

Respectfully,

Brian

On 8/13/2020 at 5:12 PM, rusty pins said:

This is a site run and owned by Mikey.  He can do as he likes with it, including shutting it down completely if he wants.  It's his business, we are here by his good graces only, enough said!  He can pick and choose who he wants as moderators, their function being to keep the peace and keep the site safe.  That means from personal attacks towards other members, discussions that get out of control, inappropriate photos and content, banning people who don't follow the established and posted rules, and especially underage members which is a pet peeve of mine.  There are reasons why a 17 year old can't go into a bar in the USA order alcoholic drinks and is required to provide an ID when asked.  If they provide a fake ID they can be arrested or banned from the establishment.  Trying to return to that establishment with a different ID is the same thing.  It will get you kicked out.  Same thing applies here.  If you do not give a reasonable age, get banned and try to establish another account to get back in, it's the exact same thing.  If you own a business you have the right to keep out people you don't want except in cases of being against disability laws.  You see two people fighting in the street with knives and guns yelling and screaming and they try to take it into your establishment, are you going to let them in?  OH HELL NO!  You have the right to refuse them service, same as places that post, "NO SHOES NO SERVICE".  When I worked for a world wide utility we always required ID before starting a new account.  Why?  Some reasons were for fraud as people would get their utility turned off for not paying their bill and then try to use someone else's ID or even their own name to start a new account.  When refused service until their old bill was paid in full and a deposit placed on the new account, people would get mad.  They would sometimes refuse to provide ID and when told they would be refused service, they would say, "You are a utility!  You can't deny me service!"  Oh, the uneducated people who think they know more about the law and business than those who actually work there!  The fact is it may be a utility but it's also a business and that business can deny service as long as it's within the laws pertaining to that utility.  Some of those reasons are for people who do not provide valid ID, owe an unpaid bill or are under age. Under age?  This is how the law states it.  If a person is a minor and has a utility, if they do not pay for that utility they can't be held liable for it because of being under age, unless they are legally emancipated by a court of law as being responsible for their debts and live as an adult even if they are 17 years of age.  Even then, there are other laws that would preclude a 17 year old emancipated person from being allowed to drink in a bar.  I have been a member here for close to 15 years, so I must be doing things right and following the rules.  Getting banned after 2 days and lashing out against a moderator seems like someone started out on the wrong foot at their inception here.  Bottom line is Mikey can do what he wants with HIS business!  You think his rules are out of line, Go to ADISC and see how things are there!  Last thing for now is, THANK YOU MIKEY AND ALL THE ADMINS FOR KEEPING THIS SITE SAFE AND PEOPLE IN LINE IF THEY GET OUT OF HAND!  THIS IS THE VERY BEST AB/DL SITE THERE IS!  If you have been warned or banned, there must have been a pretty good reason for it.

@rusty pins

Well Said, Sir :D

Brian

Edited by ~Brian~
General edits and Bolding and Underlining
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On 8/13/2020 at 12:38 PM, Elfy said:

I don't know why people are expecting trials. This isn't a criminal court, we're not going to have lawyers and a jury to discuss every decision being made! I always endeavour to give warnings before anything further unless someone was obviously a troll or something. When I started I was told when rules were broken you should send a message first, then a warning the next time, then a temporary ban and then a permanent one. It changes depending on the rule of course, for PMing without permission in the chat warnings are fine to start with but if someone is being horrendously bigoted you'll likely skip straight to warning or ban depending on severity.

A clarifcation of the rules (ie. checking them and making a new post with them all) is likely necessary. I personally didn't realise that things such as the one accunt per person rule wasn't actually written down despite being enforced since I became a mod and before!

The reason for the rule is good. It's to try to prevent people getting around bans or warnings and I've always taken time to help people who appear with a second account when the original had no black marks on it.

Welcome to Western Civilization. It's a US thing mostly. It seems to have become taken as a right to a "fair hearing" and "your day in court". Over the past 1500 years, that was considered part of being "reasonable" and a part of any organizational lifeand partof "the Rights of Man" to protect the Individual from being just obliterated by the Group as part of "The Rights of Man", part of the "democratic process", "shining the light of truth" on the matter,simple justice and to show that the organization is "Enlightened" and has nothing to hide. Political concepts become ingrained into a society. In the 19th century,going for a stroll at will was called a "constitutional" in the US because of the "Right to freedom of  peaceable assembly". In the modern sense, you can thank Thomas Hobbes and John Locke. Sowhne youare taught from the time you can speak that these are "rights", it is stressed somuch that the fact that these pertaintothe State is often forgotten and since Hobbes and Locke were philosophers,it is taken to mean "in general" as part of Ethics and fairand honest dealings as a facilitator of smooth social intercourse by setting ground rules of "due process" that are agreeable tomost if not all. To grasp that point, imagine if everyone functioned by their own set of rules with no common understanding or backdrop. Even the Militariy code has the Court Martial to oopenly inquire into the truth of any charges laid upon a person. However that court is only to consider the accuracy of such charges, not extenuationing  or exculpatory circumstances. We even have "the court of public opinion". The idea of a "fair and open hearing" has become a part of the social contract as a guard against arbitrary use of a power differential. In modern times, "inapprpriate behavior" is becoming the equivalent of "crimes against the state" or "crimes against the Fatherland" as a catch-all for any number of things

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The other side of that is that this is a privately owned website and therefore the owner is free to do whatever he wants and doesn't have to hear or care about the other side if he didn't want to.

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1 hour ago, Elfy said:

The other side of that is that this is a privately owned website and therefore the owner is free to do whatever he wants and doesn't have to hear or care about the other side if he didn't want to.

As I said earlier!  This is the bottom line!  If there is confusion about the rules, perhaps on the home page each and every rule should be fully spelled out as one of the first thing people see on that page.  Maybe right above the, "We need your content and Join Our Mailing List.  That is the perfect place for it.  The home page and make sure peole are aware of all the rules before going any farther with content or joining any mailing list.  Just a thought.  Rules should be the first things people see, not go along and have to look for them or stumble across them somewhere.  Maybe this can be addressed in the next update?

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19 minutes ago, rusty pins said:

If there is confusion about the rules, perhaps on the home page each and every rule should be fully spelled out as one of the first thing people see on that page.  Maybe right above the, "We need your content and Join Our Mailing List.  That is the perfect place for it.  The home page and make sure peole are aware of all the rules before going any farther with content or joining any mailing list.  Just a thought.  Rules should be the first things people see, not go along and have to look for them or stumble across them somewhere.  Maybe this can be addressed in the next update?

Yes please! Right now you have to actively look for the rules to find them and currently they seem to be outdated.

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2 hours ago, Elfy said:

The other side of that is that this is a privately owned website and therefore the owner is free to do whatever he wants and doesn't have to hear or care about the other side if he didn't want to.

That's totally correct, however sites that ignore their users usually don't stay around for very long. Personally I trust Mikey and I think that he does have our best interests at heart, which is why I felt so comfortable speaking out about what I felt could be improved. If I felt Mikey was the type of person to ignore his user base I probably wouldn't have dared to show up here. Heck it's clear Mikey cares simply due to the fact that @iamnotanonynous has their account back now. If he didn't care and just wanted to sweep things like this under the rug, the user would be banned and this post would be deleted, yet here we are still discussing things and giving feedback. He absolutely had no obligation to give that user their account back, yet he did, he understood the misunderstanding and took time out of his day to fix the problem.

I think Mikey is a good guy and I think things like this kinda indirectly paint him in a bad light by saying things like "well he doesn't have to listen to any of you really!", which while technically true I don't think it's applicable to how Mikey treats the users or the site, after all he's poured years of his time and money into making this site great, I don't know, I just think he deserves a little more credit than that.

Edited by kasarberang
Added a little extra bit at the end.
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First and foremost, this a privately owned website and the owner/moderators can reserve the right to ban whoever they want. That said, the ABDL community is pretty niche and dailydiapers is largest and most active online community (it's been my impression ADISC is smaller and less active, I could be wrong, though.) People are really going to want to avoid getting banned from here because there isn't really anywhere equivalent. Being upset about a ban and wanting an appeals process isn't necessarily the same as throwing a fit after getting banned off of a political discourse subreddit, getting banned means major loss or restriction of access to the ABDL community. There are absolutely people that should be banned, but I think dailydiapers has a degree of social responsibility to not create situations that precipitate bans. That is, if violation of a rule can get you banned, that rule should be clear and obvious to all users.

I think an appeals process might be fair considering the role of dailydiapers in the ABDL community, particularly because it appears that there has not always been a large amount of communications before or after bans. Mistakes happen. Users and moderators. I don't think an appeals process needs to (or even should) include the community, but a description of the appealed issue from both (or more) parties could be put forth to all the moderators which can agree/disagree if the ban is fair. This could aid in rule violations being punished uniformly and impartially.

A tangle that I see here is that the (invisible) rule against multiple accounts means that the banning of your account constitutes a lifetime ban from dailydiapers. OP's original account was banned for it's name and misstated age. It makes sense to ban an account that violates the (invisible) rules- but with no communication and a ban on further accounts, that means that that individual is banned from ever having an account on dailydiapers ever again, which seems somewhat harsh.

As to the age/birthday rule seeming "implied:" first, I agree with kasarberang that "implied" is not accessible for people with some disabilities. Second, there are confusing things, as is, that make the "implied" part a bit harder to parse. It might be assumed that birthday needed to be accurate. But it was visible on our profiles for five years. It could be interpreted that the public nature was for other users to wish a us a happy birthday, making accuracy not as important. I find the lack of care to our privacy kind of disturbing. Then, the "real age" field allows us to type in a number. This number does not change with our stated birthday, because it doesn't even have to be a number. I could type "diapers" or "grilled cheese" into it and it wouldn't care. This does not generally scream to me as a field that must be accurate. There's also the weird overlap between trans/nb identities in both the (optional) gender field (which is in the same section as the real age field) and the "I am a...." field (which is in the diaper etc. field) which makes it seem like that section might not necessarily be intended for vital account information.

Then there's I think a telling thing- in this discussion there have been a lot of posts talking about the website being 21+ (even from US posters.) As far as I know, this website is 18+ (dailydiapers.com says "if you are 18+ you may enter," but I haven't seen anything entering into or in the forum itself that says an age limit) I am 20 years old. I am not a minor. I am not buying alcohol on here. If it turns out this website really is supposed to be 21+, then banish me, I guess. But I don't think it is. And if any sizeable amount of your user base isn't sure whether it's 18+ or 21+ then the age rules are not clear enough.

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I wasn't trying to say that DD bans whoever it wants for no reason. I was just replying to the free speech stuff that the website technically COULD ban anyone for any reason. In reality the website has generally been very lenient and has often given users a lot of chances.

The rules do need to be clearer for sure.

@lord.bill The rule is and has always been 18+. I'm not sure if someone has implied otherwise and I missed it but we simply require users to be adults.

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7 hours ago, Elfy said:

The other side of that is that this is a privately owned website and therefore the owner is free to do whatever he wants and doesn't have to hear or care about the other side if he didn't want to.

True enough. However, and this is why I said "Welcome to Western Civilization". Remember,  I said that the ideas of "due process", fair hearing" and, in general "fair play" is becoming "woven into the social contract" by way of "custom", which determines expectations involved in being treated as an adult person. Being derived of Ethics, that expectation is extending beyond the law and  seeps into "the court of public opinion". If a person gets the reputation of being artitrary or unreasonable or hard to deal with. that reputation gets simplified into "a self-absorbed bastard that you can't deal with as a human being". Remember when the busienss with ADISC came up and  someone called their admins "nazi's", whinc term has come to mean "dictatorial" (my elders in the 1950 and 60's used to say "tin hitler"). In this  day and age of the far reach of social media, the "court of public opinion" can ruin a person or organization. Besides which, it is a good idea to have sunc a process as it keeps misunderstandings from spiralling out of control. Also, you don't know what a disgruntled person may do. While it might not be required, when you do the ethical (what must I do, what ought I do and what may I do) calculation, and this is taught forrmally in Ethics, there is the matter of prudence, aka CYA. An ethical counsellor might say "you MAY do as you wish and you can also take the backlash of the reputation you earn; for every action there is a reaction in the world of public opnion". There is alos this. As a group that seeks, as a minority, tolerance, what does it mean if ABDL groups demonstrate  intolerance or what is generally percieved as being unreasonable? and there are those who would like to nail "kinksters" to the wall. That was a hard fight in the late 1960's and '70's and we must be above reproach; something about living in glass houses. Again, prudence. The famous "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"

 

To be sure,there are things that ought be banned. the confermation, in some way, that a would-be member is an adult is very reasonable. What I find disconcerting is when there is a blatant clash between birtday and claimed real age or a person says that "in the 60  years I've been around..." and they list, their age, or their birthday says they are 73, or 53. If you are going to do something cute with"Real Age", as long as one's real age can be found out, then it is imperative to list your birthday so that admins and mods can check on it. Also there must be some way to be sure that a person has read the rulse, said rules bein not a full-on novel-lie treatise,before they do the final act of signing up. There are other things that may be banned at option, for esthetic reasons "to keep this place from becoming a mental ward, pig sty, dive or freak hole"

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Having been a member here for almost 15 years (and I know there are other's who have been here longer), my observations have been that Mikey and all the admins give members a fair shake and chance to correct any issues before being banned.  I have seen some members who's activity and personal attacks on other members get several warnings, especially after it has been brought to the attention of admins.  That said offender is warned, continues and gets told again with the warning if it continues to happen he or she will be banned.  Plenty of fair warning.  Some common sense issues and rules are not so grey.  The member who stated he went into public restrooms, undressed and sat on the changing table with a diaper half on waiting for people, including kids to come in so he could talk with them about his diapers is clearly a black and white issue!  No need for any sane person to wonder if that was a proper thing to do!  Immediate ban as even the dumbest and horniest person knows better!  I remember when DPF was still around in the 1990's and there was a big FBI investigation involving DPF because one of their members, Donald S. (I won't spell his last name) was arrested for allegedly having diaper activities with young boys.  Seems he would solicit parents with the idea he would be able to help them with their wetting issues, but he would take them with him and take pictures of them in diapers and supposedly other things.  You can look it up on the internet if you remember his name.  It caused Tommy and DPF some very uncomfortable months when it happened.  Mikey has to be very careful about anything like that happening here, including underage members.  There are porn laws and internet regulations about underage minors and many people already think of AB/DL people as pedophiles.  This is a huge world wide website with all kinds of people and we know it can be hard to keep reins on that many people.  You never know what some of them may be doing that they don't mention in postings here.  When a hint of anyone underage possibly being a member here is observed, it needs to be taken care of and addressed.  I know people are in the closet and don't want anyone to perhaps make a connection to who they are in life, such as a coworker or family member, but you can't put 150 years old as your real age and skirt around required information.  When joining it states required information and you don't need a page of site rules to know when it says "Real Age" to put down your real age, not that you are 150 years old.  Privacy is everyone's issue but keep this in mind.  Who of your friends and coworkers will be here unless they themselves have their own interest in AB/DL?  Even if they do or don't, how will they connect anyone here to someone they know by just their age?  Same thing if you put down a general location like I have (Southwest Michigan).  Unless you say, "I'm 24 years old, live in Crabapple Cove Maine, run the local tattoo parlor on oak street and live in the blue house on Maple street on the right side two houses down from the railroad tracks", who is going to connect you personally to someone they know by your profile and real age?  While I do think a site update posting the rules on the home page would be a good idea (that way there can be no argument that a member didn't see them and know about them), it is Mikey's good graces that he allows us here on his site and his responsibility to make sure we are all safe and abide by both the legal laws and the laws of moral decency and common sense.
 

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2 hours ago, rusty pins said:

Having been a member here for almost 15 years (and I know there are other's who have been here longer), my observations have been that Mikey and all the admins give members a fair shake and chance to correct any issues before being banned.  I have seen some members who's activity and personal attacks on other members get several warnings, especially after it has been brought to the attention of admins.  That said offender is warned, continues and gets told again with the warning if it continues to happen he or she will be banned.  Plenty of fair warning.  Some common sense issues and rules are not so grey.  The member who stated he went into public restrooms, undressed and sat on the changing table with a diaper half on waiting for people, including kids to come in so he could talk with them about his diapers is clearly a black and white issue!  No need for any sane person to wonder if that was a proper thing to do!  Immediate ban as even the dumbest and horniest person knows better!  I remember when DPF was still around in the 1990's and there was a big FBI investigation involving DPF because one of their members, Donald S. (I won't spell his last name) was arrested for allegedly having diaper activities with young boys.  Seems he would solicit parents with the idea he would be able to help them with their wetting issues, but he would take them with him and take pictures of them in diapers and supposedly other things.  You can look it up on the internet if you remember his name.  It caused Tommy and DPF some very uncomfortable months when it happened.  Mikey has to be very careful about anything like that happening here, including underage members.  There are porn laws and internet regulations about underage minors and many people already think of AB/DL people as pedophiles.  This is a huge world wide website with all kinds of people and we know it can be hard to keep reins on that many people.  You never know what some of them may be doing that they don't mention in postings here.  When a hint of anyone underage possibly being a member here is observed, it needs to be taken care of and addressed.  I know people are in the closet and don't want anyone to perhaps make a connection to who they are in life, such as a coworker or family member, but you can't put 150 years old as your real age and skirt around required information.  When joining it states required information and you don't need a page of site rules to know when it says "Real Age" to put down your real age, not that you are 150 years old.  Privacy is everyone's issue but keep this in mind.  Who of your friends and coworkers will be here unless they themselves have their own interest in AB/DL?  Even if they do or don't, how will they connect anyone here to someone they know by just their age?  Same thing if you put down a general location like I have (Southwest Michigan).  Unless you say, "I'm 24 years old, live in Crabapple Cove Maine, run the local tattoo parlor on oak street and live in the blue house on Maple street on the right side two houses down from the railroad tracks", who is going to connect you personally to someone they know by your profile and real age?  While I do think a site update posting the rules on the home page would be a good idea (that way there can be no argument that a member didn't see them and know about them), it is Mikey's good graces that he allows us here on his site and his responsibility to make sure we are all safe and abide by both the legal laws and the laws of moral decency and common sense.
 

Holy wall of text, Batman!!!

May I ask you to make some paragraphs out of this?  

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