Covid 19 Rant

[Firefly 35]

On 4/18/2020 at 7:27 AM, foreverdl said:

I think we could be wearing mask's and or at least keeping our distance till late into this year.  If we don't take this seriously the out come won't be good.

True, plus wearing masks means you can have a paci out in public without people noticing.

[foreverdl]

1 hour ago, Firefly 35 said:

True, plus wearing masks means you can have a paci out in public without people noticing.

That's true, hadn't thought of it, My wife made us home made masks out of Charlie Brown, and Snoopy material, I worked with her, we filled them with the batting stuffing used for crafts. It gives more distance from us than just material. I wear my Charlie Brown Proudly 

[Cute_Kitten]

Some of my relatives work in the medical field. My aunt sews, and she made a bunch of masks from leftover fabrics she had laying around. 

[DL-Boy]

I made masks out of some barely used mens large FTL plaid boxers.  One large pair had enough contiguous fabric panels to make five masks using folded 9x12 swatches (9x6 folded in half).  The waistband elastic worked well for over-ear elastic loops as it was divided into thirds with stitching paths that I cut through, giving three separate lengths of 0.30" wide elastics.  They were using Joann Fabric's three pleat mask design.

[babykeiff]

My sincere condolences go out to the families of the residents of Residential Herron, Montreal, to all who have died from this, and to all members that are stuck in some form of care setting and maybe exposed to coronavirus and/or the greed and manipulation of idiots.

The pseudo wish of most of us are to be cared for as a baby that is diapered, fed, and changed when needed. The reality of this is that these people, and others worldwide, were abandoned to die in wet and soiled diapers by Samir Chowieri and other criminals who put the value of money above human dignity and life.

[Dubious]

Norway has opened kindergartens and is opening schools again
More and more people are getting back to work, restaurants are open etc. 

BUT, we still have strict distancing rules and all that
People entering the county must in a 14 day quarantine, so no work etc.

[dlsafrica]

I know.  Here in South Africa our president just finished making an address to the nation  (south africa is ranked second best in the world at response to this pandemic after Algeria). He outlined economic measures to be taken and the HUGE budget set aside for that, but if it gets the economy moving again it will be worth it. He will address again on Thursday to say what phases of the economy will open first. I'm hoping things like repair shops where there is little public movement, will be made available.  I need to fix my computer for example 

[rusty pins]

I know people are out of work and there are a lot of protesters at some state capitols.  I want to get back somewhat to normal too, but keep this in mind.  How many times do you see a sports figure injured in a game and try to come back too early!  Yes, they mostly re-injure themselves and end up being out a lot longer than if they had waited the first time and not tried to come back before being totally healed. 

[DL-Boy]

...And speaking of sports, I think it's Taiwan that I heard is going to start their baseball season after all players, coaches and umpires go through some sort of check for the virus, but the stands will have no fans - only mannequins and cardboard standees.

They are going to start the Masters golf tournament but the aren't allowing any gallery for the game, only the players and officials will be in attendance.

This is the start of the scifi vision of artificial fan-base and audiences, and they are now going to be either animated, robotic, virtual (via TV/video), or inanimate objects standing in for fans, etc. 

[anned]

On 4/17/2020 at 4:42 AM, foreverdl said:

I get soo mad at these jerks when I go to the local Walmart, and grocery store. We really don't want to go anyplace, but we need food water etc. My wife and I are both over 62, and both in the high risk because of our health issues. And these jerks are in the store, with whole families NOT a one has a mask, running around the store, and not even keeping a 2 foot distance from us. 

I have seen parents with mask and 2 or more kids running around with no mask.

I know if the kids get covid19 they will be more likely to be asymptomic and spreaders of the virus then adults.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/are-children-super-spreaders-of-course-they-are-20200305-p5475f.html

[foreverdl]

2 hours ago, anned said:

I have seen parents with mask and 2 or more kids running around with no mask.

I know if the kids get covid19 they will be more likely to be asymptomic and spreaders of the virus then adults.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/are-children-super-spreaders-of-course-they-are-20200305-p5475f.html

Thats normal here, we were in Walmart yesterday, Not really wanting to go,,, and we see many families, the same, the parents have a mask, and the kids not only not wearing a mask, But running around like BRATS,, we have been doing all we can online I don't want to go to any stores, because too many people think they won't get sick, and they are most likely the stupid ones that are carrying the virus with them and spreading it. I know years ago my wife used to help her sister in her classroom and my wife was always coming up with colds and flue etc. Kids are a breading place for germs. 

[Elfy]

I remember reading a quote from someone who said "We know how to revive the economy, we don't know how to revive a person." (I know technically you can revive people but you get the idea!)

Anyone (in countries badly affected) talking about ending lockdowns right now is thinking of the economy more than their fellow man and it honestly makes me sick. The virus hasn't even peaked in a lot of places and ending lockdowns will only cause the problems to grow faster and higher than it would otherwise. All in the name of lining some rich people's pockets.

[vvp39]

"All in the name of lining some rich people's pockets."
The situation now is the one that is lining rich people's pockets. For the most part it is the small independent businesses that have been forced to cut back severely or shut down completely; the same businesses that were not likely to be well-capitalized enough to survive a total loss of income for several months, while the large grocery chains and home-improvement store chains are all open. In my home state of Washington the marijuana stores which bring a big tax benefit to the state are considered essential, but book stores? Nay!

[Pamperbum_uk]

As a brit in lockdown, can I just say how dumb the American backlash against these measures looks here....

 

If you want the freedom to DIE, go ahead and ignore the lockdown. But you could get it a be alright.... That wouldnt stop you from passing it on to your loved one. Do you really want to run the risk of accidentally killing someone you love????

[Elfy]

9 hours ago, Pamperbum_uk said:

As a brit in lockdown, can I just say how dumb the American backlash against these measures looks here....

 

If you want the freedom to DIE, go ahead and ignore the lockdown. But you could get it a be alright.... That wouldnt stop you from passing it on to your loved one. Do you really want to run the risk of accidentally killing someone you love????

And yet the only thing stopping our government doing the same thing is public opinion being against them ?

[DL-Boy]

I was at the local Kroger grocery store today for a few necessities after Walmart completely screwed the pooch with a delivery order I was supposed to have gotten this evening (the app said the delivery person has arrived at my apartment but after an hour on the phone with Walmart, the store didn't even have a record of me, my order or my account).

Anyway, only one in three people walking around Kroger was wearing a mask!  Then there were children without masks and they were right in front of my self-checkout terminal, so I asked them to please step back and they and their parents simply ignored me, uncovered faces and all!  Fortunately I had my own facemask on and as soon as I got to my car, I used hand sanitizer gel on my nitrile gloves before removing them.  Of course instead of wasting sanitizer, when the groceries come home I sprayed them down with a 10% chlorine bleach solution.  I should be fairly safe but it chaps my ass that  after the county commissioners judge ordered that everyone should wear facemasks, if you must go out on public for essential tasks, so few are doing so!  Our county judge just decreed that as of 4/22 everyone in public must wear face covering of some kind, no exceptions.

[babykeiff]

People,

with coronavirus, there are four individual groups of people.

1. Person who never got infected.
2. Person who got a mild case, was unaware of the infection and recovered
3. Person who got a more severe case, was tested, and recovered
4. Person who died from this.

Using all the limited information that medical science has today, the only two groups of people in this list is 1 - person that never got infected, and 4 person that died from this are 'safe'. Group 2 and 3 are carriers of a strain of this virus.

Carriers may be immune to the strain that they received, but they have damaged lung tissue and accordingly, weakened immune systems. As a result, group 2 and 3 will be more susceptible to different strains of this virus. What is worse is that these people (2,3) can infect a healthy spouse / family member (1), who if/when they recover, can reinfect the person that infected them. This type of transmission is currently unknown.

What is known

This virus has no cure. Secondary complications, reduced lung functionality, liver damage, internal organ damage etc does affect ones ability to continue to live. One in debt can work their way out of debt. Once dead there is no working out of it. Lung damage takes years to recover from. The only way to truly survive this virus is not get it. Even if you get it and recover does not mean that you will survive this. You can easily transmit the mutation and yet have no symptoms (remember, the virus has used your cells to reproduce, and therefore, your mutation) re-catch the mutation that will kill you - where you were the person that mutated the virus in the first place.

What is being told to us

Social distancing reduces the transmission rate. This is true, the less people that you have contact with, the less people that will catch the virus from you AND the less people that can transmit the virus to you.

What is not being told to you

A cure / vaccine will not eliminate this virus. In fact, due to biological mutations that exist, a cure / vaccine will only create a more deadly strain.

Let me explain this one. Medical staff never talk in relation to cure, since there is no absolutes in medicine. They refer to a treatment plan. One can treat an infection to assist the human immune system to control the infections. This will reduce the level of infection down to a manageable level - i.e. 99.9% effective (we hope). Still, there is that 0.1% infection that is different enough to be resistant / immune to the infection treatment. That makes the 0.1% more dangerous than the other 99.9% of that infection.

What is Actually Known About this Current Strain/Mutation

It can last outside a host for on average 3 days. This is the average. On some surfaces, it can last longer, whilst on other surfaces it can last shorter.

It invades the lung tissue and causes long term effects to ones ability to breath.

Some people can survive this attack  - actual percentages are not known due to true and full information not being shared. Ranges are between 10% to 90%. 

Secondary attacks - i.e. from those who survived the first attack, are assumed to be more lethal.

Herd Immunity

This is a process that is being attempted in US and UK by Trump / Johnston, both people that are ignoring medical information based on the limited knowledge the medical industry has on this specific virus. Herd immunity relies on a high proportion of a countries citizens catching and recovering from a virus. This psuedo science professes that each citizen will build an immunity to the virus, and therefore, the country will. If this was true, the cold virus would have been eliminated by now. The psuedo science that professes herd immunity relies on the misinformation that a virus does not change / mutate. This is simply not true. Every virus / bacteria will mutate on each reproduction cycle. Bacteria mutate less often that a virus since a bacteria uses its own reproduction methodology. A virus uses the hosts reproductive system. This means that every duplication of the virus will have some impact of its host on the virus copy. Therefore, the version that you transmit will be different than the version that I transmit. Due to human closeness, this means that the virus that is transmitted from you will be mutated by its next victim, maybe your partner, mutated by its next victim as your partner passes it on, maybe your son, mutated by your son as he passes it on to you. Between the original strain that you had, and recovered from to the strain that your son has passed on to you is different enough so your own immune system does not recognise it as a virus, and it creates further damage to your weakened immune system. This variant, the mutated version that you caught in the first case, would kill you at that stage.

How do we kill it

The only true way to eliminate this virus is to starve it out i.e. eliminate its host. As we are its host, it is not realistic to eliminate ourselves. Therefore, to eliminate the virus, is to remove its host, us, from its path. That means stopping the transmission dead in all cases. If we don't, the virus will eliminate us in either its current form, or its mutated form.

The process across the world of isolation, testing and tracing is in an attempt to remove all cases of this virus transmission from us. This does not work if one country / group of countries are transmitting it while another are not as this will end up with the elimination of the virus, and its host in one country. It is all well and good going back to work and/or fighting for freedom / liberty... but is fails when this virus eliminates the free citizens. The idea of US states protesting for their freedoms all it will do is provide a food source for this virus.

Each person in this world is interdependent on each other. If one person / country survives and the rest of the world doesn't, it will be a very lonely world.. and will create a secondary problem - world hunger and death due to starvation. Examples of how dependent each of us are on each other when one looks at a specific isolationist group like the Amish community. Although they believe and practice isolation and self dependency, they are still leaving their community to interact and purchase product from the western world. How valid are the Amish beliefs when they still need to depend on the local / global economy?

Total isolation fails. On a state / county scale, each state / county is reliant on the next state/county. Also, each country is dependent for its survival on each other country despite what some media / politicians wish to profess.

As a result, each one of us is reliant on each other of us for our own survival despite our wishes / beliefs to the contrary. This means that each persons economic progress is reliant on others for it to survive and grow. This expands to the simple fact that the survival and growth of the US is reliant on China like China is reliant on the US. Trump's concept of trying to accelerate the economic growth and recovery of the US is completely reliant on the recovery of the global economy which currently is in shambles due to the effects of this virus.

This brings me on to another vital point. The economy is totally dependent on the physical and mental health of citizens. Once the physical and mental health of ALL the world recovers, the associated economies will grow. Without that, there is no chance of economic growth despite Trump's fairy tales and /or wishes.

People, stay safe and healthy. Protect the health of who you can - it will have massive rewards, most of which cannot be taxed. Financial situations will recover, but not if you / others are dead.

 

[id0ntknow]

1 hour ago, babykeiff said:

How do we kill it

 

The only true way to eliminate this virus is to starve it out i.e. eliminate its host. As we are its host, it is not realistic to eliminate ourselves. Therefore, to eliminate the virus, is to remove its host, us, from its path. That means stopping the transmission dead in all cases. If we don't, the virus will eliminate us in either its current form, or its mutated form.

 

 

I don't mean this to be insensitive or anything like that, but this explanation of this virus is reminding me a lot of The Flood from the Halo games. The only real way to defeat it was to take away its food and putting it into a dormant state to be studied.

[DL-Boy]

1 hour ago, babykeiff said:

People,

with coronavirus, there are four individual groups of people.

1. Person who never got infected.
2. Person who got a mild case, was unaware of the infection and recovered
3. Person who got a more severe case, was tested, and recovered
4. Person who died from this.

And to boil it down even further, the groups are:

• Those who haven't contracted the virus but WILL get it if not vaccinated when one is available
• Those who HAVE contracted it and lived (maybe to contract it again if immunity is limited - they just don't know yet)
• Those who are either LUCKY, or stay safe and away from the crazies until a tested and effective vaccine has been administered to protect them
• Those who HAVE died from it

Everyone who is not inoculated against COVID-19 will contract it at some point.  They may not develop symptoms but that doesn't mean they don't have the virus in their system.  If people can stay safe and not exposed to the virus until a vaccine can be tested and verified effective, they may be spared ever contracting it.  Otherwise, people will continue to contract it, and will continue to die from it until then.  It will only have run its course when everyone who has the virus has recovered and gotten past the contagious period, or has died and nobody else has been exposed to it in the meantime.

[babykeiff]

43 minutes ago, DL-Boy said:

And to boil it down even further, the groups are:

• Those who haven't contracted the virus but WILL get it if not vaccinated when one is available
• Those who HAVE contracted it and lived (maybe to contract it again if immunity is limited - they just don't know yet)
• Those who are either LUCKY, or stay safe and away from the crazies until a tested and effective vaccine has been administered to protect them
• Those who HAVE died from it

Everyone who is not inoculated against COVID-19 will contract it at some point.  They may not develop symptoms but that doesn't mean they don't have the virus in their system.  If people can stay safe and not exposed to the virus until a vaccine can be tested and verified effective, they may be spared ever contracting it.  Otherwise, people will continue to contract it, and will continue to die from it until then.  It will only have run its course when everyone who has the virus has recovered and gotten past the contagious period, or has died and nobody else has been exposed to it in the meantime.

DL-boy... nothing is 100% in medicine. With coronavirus, and its behaviour today, any vaccine that can deal with it has to be 100% effective. That will NEVER happen. SO, despite the BS been fed to the world by Trump etc, there will never be a vaccine for this as all it will do is create a super-coronavirus, one that is more lethal.

Your concept of everyone getting it and recovering from it is herd mentality, and fairy tales. If there was any truth in the concept of herd immunity, the simple common cold would have, by now, eliminated itself from the world. With a virus, they change with every one that gets infected. As a result, as long as people are getting infected, people will ALWAYS be getting infected. With the common cold, it does not, in most cases, effect the lungs. Coronavirus even in mild cases, reduces lung functionality by 10% and reduces immune response by 35%. Total lung repair takes 2-4 years plus. As a result, the contagious period for coronavirus, and the relevant lockdown has to greater than 2-4 years plus the average time of infection. These times are too long for most, so what is prime is creating a testing process that gives instant diagnosis of infection. Without that, we can't really go out into society again.

1 hour ago, id0ntknow said:

I don't mean this to be insensitive or anything like that, but this explanation of this virus is reminding me a lot of The Flood from the Halo games. The only real way to defeat it was to take away its food and putting it into a dormant state to be studied.

I'd agree with you, putting it in a dormant state to be studied but please identify a way to do same - safely. Remember, any mistake and the virus is again out in the world. This virus has to be DEAD with no storage or anything. The risk to human life is too great to store it.

[le Hollandais]

On 4/22/2020 at 3:00 PM, Pamperbum_uk said:

As a brit in lockdown, [may] I just say how dumb the American backlash against these measures looks here....

You may. And you'd be correct, as well.

[Elfy]

@babykeiff, I think you are confusing viruses with bacteria and vaccines with anti-biotics. A vaccine can and will be developed, there are a lot of efforts worldwide to create the vaccine and some are in the testing phase. A vaccine can eliminate viruses (see: Smallpox) and if everyone gets the vaccine Covid-19 won't survive.

The super-virus you talk about would make more sense if it was a bacteria (so a super-bacteria). That's because of anti-biotic misuse, either not completeing courses, putting it in animal food, over prescription, etc.

"Herd immunity" is of course not a viable strategy. The UK government planned to do that for about two days before having to rapidly shift to social distancing when they realised that a) The public wasn't willing to accept the projected 250,000(!!!) deathes, b) it would absolutely cripple the health service among other thing and c) since there is no guarentee that having the virus grants lasting immunity it might be impossible to create that immunity.

[Firefly 35]

1 hour ago, Elfy said:

@babykeiff, I think you are confusing viruses with bacteria and vaccines with anti-biotics. A vaccine can and will be developed, there are a lot of efforts worldwide to create the vaccine and some are in the testing phase. A vaccine can eliminate viruses (see: Smallpox) and if everyone gets the vaccine Covid-19 won't survive

A vaccine will greatly reduce how many people get sick and/or die from Covid-19.  However, like other people have mentioned, viruses mutate and therefore there will never be a 100% cure for any virus.  We might get 99.99% of cases cured or prevented but it's impossble to completely eradicate a virus.  If we're lucky there'll be a vaccine soon and people's risk will be much lower but it's a matter of being careful for now.

[babykeiff]

6 hours ago, Elfy said:

@babykeiff, I think you are confusing viruses with bacteria and vaccines with anti-biotics. A vaccine can and will be developed, there are a lot of efforts worldwide to create the vaccine and some are in the testing phase. A vaccine can eliminate viruses (see: Smallpox) and if everyone gets the vaccine Covid-19 won't survive.

The super-virus you talk about would make more sense if it was a bacteria (so a super-bacteria). That's because of anti-biotic misuse, either not completeing courses, putting it in animal food, over prescription, etc.

"Herd immunity" is of course not a viable strategy. The UK government planned to do that for about two days before having to rapidly shift to social distancing when they realised that a) The public wasn't willing to accept the projected 250,000(!!!) deathes, b) it would absolutely cripple the health service among other thing and c) since there is no guarentee that having the virus grants lasting immunity it might be impossible to create that immunity.

I know the difference between a virus and a bacterium. You, in stating that a vaccine can eliminate virus' is simply a lie. Smallpox is based on two virus' and although WHO state that it has been removed, variants of same have infected people in 1973. This is 20 years after the widespread use of a virual inocullant that was supposed to create immunity in the population. Secondly, variants of poxviridea related to Variola Major / Variola Minor (the two virus' that create the disease smallpox) have been linked to H1N1 and HSV1. H1N1 is also in the group coronavidiea. HSV1 is better known as Cold Sores / Herpes simplex and in the group Alphaherpesvirinae. The commonality between these virus' is that they all have the root POXVIRIDEA. Without extensive, extremely dangerous research and proof, one can't prove that covid19 came from a merge / mutation of poxviridea.  

The simple fact is that a virus does mutate. A developed vaccine for this virus is not only insane, but extremely risky to work with as it will create a 0.1% of the virus as a super virus, one that is more lethal than the current estimated lethalty of 93% (in some cases), one that is more dangerous to the human host than removing 10-20% of lung functionality.

Antibiotic misuse occurred over a number of  years, and is presumed to be due to doctors etc prescribing an antibiotic for a common cold etc. Since, from last calculations, 2.7 million cases (3-4% of population), I would presume if we vaccinate the entire 8.7 billion population, would you say that is a little misuse, and if it is not, who do we not vaccinate?

This is guarenteed to create a super virus that is immune to the vaccination / immunity created by vaccination. As a result, the world has a super-virus that most likely would be air-bourne (not to say that coronavirus is not already), which would simple wipe out the population of the world.

5 hours ago, Firefly 35 said:

A vaccine will greatly reduce how many people get sick and/or die from Covid-19.  However, like other people have mentioned, viruses mutate and therefore there will never be a 100% cure for any virus.  We might get 99.99% of cases cured or prevented but it's impossble to completely eradicate a virus.  If we're lucky there'll be a vaccine soon and people's risk will be much lower but it's a matter of being careful for now.

As I have stated, research into a virus can be dangerous. Research into sars-cov-2 that results in covid19 is even more dangerous. This is due to the simple fact that the virus is stable over a huge range of temperatures, highly contagious and lethal, and any mistake in containment means death.

Most virus' can be 100% eliminated using temperature / specific chemical. This virus needs a surfactant (soap) to break down its protective barrier. As a result, the guts of the virus is spilled out. This actually does not eliminate the virus. Its RNA strand is still intact. All it does is remove the virus' ability to 'lock onto' the host's cells and infect them. If a bacterum 'eats' this RNA, the RNA will convert the bacteria to reproduce the virus. It is assumed, not proven, that the RNA will break down after 72 hours approx. The infection of a bacterium is a weaker form of the virus as the bacteria cannot infect the lung tissue of a human host, but the virus in its original form, after it has spilled out of the infected, now dead bacteria, is still as lethal to us humans.

Surfactant (soap) usage on hands does break down the outer layer of the virus. The use of warm water / mixture of previously boiled sterile water with cold water) means that there is little to no bacteria in the water. Also, the addition of chemicals in the water (chlorine etc) further reduces the bacterial content. As a result, when one washes hands and rinses them under a running tap, the exposed RNA of this virus is rinsed away and will slowly break down over the next 2-3 days as the water goes to treatment plants.

Wash hands, stay at home / apart to avoid catching this virus, and stay safe

 

[DL-Boy]

Okay @babykeiff, since you apparently are saying in your rant that there is no winning move against COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2, then what do you say we should do to combat this if everyone already working to combat the virus is doing it wrong? 

[Jonas Salk rolls over in his grave]