Covid 19 Rant

[rusty pins]

Just a little pissed off here, working in the medical field like I do.  Finally with the stay at home orders we are seeing the curve start to flatten out.  What's happening then?  People protesting in front of the state capitol to open everything up and get back to normal!  State senators from the opposing party trying to get the governor to relax the orders because she extended it to the end of the month.  Politicians all over the country trying to rush and open things back up in the face of this deadly pandemic!  DUH!  Look at China.  When they finally did start to open the city after months of isolation the cases of Covid-19 started to rise again.  Sure, I know people are struggling and we all want to get back to normal, but WE HAVE TO GIVE IT MORE TIME!  Just because in some states the curve is starting to flatten doesn't mean it's over!  Just the fact that the curve is starting to flatten shows the stay at home and reduced contact and social distancing is working.  Now is not the time to stop and have the cases increase again.  Listen to the medical experts on pandemics and viruses instead of the people who just want to get back to normal living.  We will get there eventually, but we all know that if we get in a car that is only half repaired, it's going to break right down again when we need it the most.  If that doesn't wake people up, try walking through the hall of the hospital by the morgue as I do and see the bodies bagged up on gurneys waiting for a space to open up once the funeral homes comes to claim another body.

[DL-Boy]

A group at Harvard School of Health Studies posted recently that unless a vaccine comes very soon, we may need to continue Social Distancing until 2022.

Heard a hint of it on the radio and then I Googled it.  Google "Covid Social Distancing 2022" for more info.

[warpiper]

Here's a good analogy: "oh the curve is flattening so we can ease the restrictions :: oh this parachute is slowing our descent so we can take it off"

[Clr224]

My problem with the “curve is flattening “ mantra is that people seem to interpret that to mean that there is a lower probability of being infected with Covid-19.  Looking at both curves, the same number of people get infected; it’s just that they get infected over a longer period of time so that the health care system doesn’t get overloaded at any given time and unable to provide life saving care because of a lack of providers, supplies, and facilities.  

[BoTox]

I personally, just my opinion, think it is more political than public danger. So far it hasn't killed more than the seasonal flu and the Chinese lied, people died. 100,000 died in China, maybe millions and they are not out of the woods yet and still they lie. Chinese traveled to the hardest hit areas long after China knew what was unfolding. That's why Italy, NYC, London, etc are all higher than average cases per capita.

Generally healthy people without underlying issues aren't at risk. Keep the vulnerable and at-risk quarantined but let the rest of us get about our business just like, you guessed it, the regular flu.

I'm betting it was here in December and a lot of otherwise healthy people already have had it and suffered no other health concerns. The compromised immunity and elder people unable to clear their lungs are already susceptible to anything that is going around, cold, flu, e-coli, etc.

And about flattening the curve. It will only save lives if there aren't enough ventilators to go around. Flattening the curve doesn't keep anyone from getting the disease, it merely shifts their eventual infection to a time when, hopefully, a bed is available.

Finally, the whole country is NOT NY f'in City. We don't all need to be locked down since my area is less than 100 people to the square mile. Our population density is much lower than the big city. Last I knew NY f'in City didn't dictate my freedoms and rights.

Rant over!

[rusty pins]

Remember it started in New York City with one lawyer.  Sure there were most likely others infected but look how fast it spread.  One New Jersey family lost 4 members due to the virus within just a few days through normal family contact, and a week later lost another one.  They would still be alive had they not been infected.  It's true when this first started to hit the United States we were not really aware of how fast it spread from people who didn't even know they had been infected.  Now we know and are taking lots of precautions with restrictions and stay at home orders, yet some people want to ignore them or say they are unnecessary in the face and facts of what has been going on the past few months.  In my state it started with 2 people near Detroit.  Within 3 weeks we had 20,000 people infected and we are the third highest state in the country with infected people.  That didn't just spread like wildfire out of the blue.  It spread due to infected people passing it to others who passed it to even more people without knowing they were even infected.  Remember, the more people who have it the more people it spreads to.  If just one person has it and they casually spread it to only 5 other people, those 5 people spread it to 25 people, who spread it to 125 more people who spread it to 650 more people, etc., and that's if each of those infected individuals only spread it to 5 other people.  Spreading it to only 5 other people is a way conservative number through normal daily contact.  In reality, the spread from just one infected person to others through contact or a sneeze is most likely much higher that 5 people.  That's why avoiding contact, maintaining a distance and staying at home is working to slow the spread.   

This is not like the flu, nor is it more "political" than a danger to the public.  It is very highly contagious and people are dying.  If it was just like the flu, why are so many hospitals out of room for patients with the disease, and why are there not enough ventilators to go around?  Look at New York City and what has been going on there the last few weeks for example.  No, we don't have an epic pandemic like this that has spread world wide and killed so many people in just a short time if this was likened to the flu.  Healthy people with no underlying health issues are at risk like everyone else!  The normally healthy supermarket check out people who have died (and perhaps caught it from someone inconsiderate who shopped without a mask and sneezed all over the store), the NBA basketball players and NFL football players infected who might otherwise be in top physical condition.  Movie stars and their families.  Normal healthy people who have caught it and died because an immediate family member brought it home with them.  The people who all caught it just from attending a funeral.  Do you say those normally healthy people were not at risk?  Even if it were true that healthy people aren't at risk, is it fair to subject them to catching this highly contagious disease anyway?  Sure, maybe at a big gathering a few might have caught the flu from someone, but not the majority of those in attendance.  Look at the below link as just one example of how quickly this deadly and highly contagious disease can spread.  It's more than a coincidence that one person infected a whole group of otherwise healthy people.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/us/coronavirus-funeral-albany-georgia.html

Today is April 16th.  This started in my state with two confirmed cases on March 10th, and 37 days later those 2 cases have grown to 28,059 cases with 1,921 deaths.  In the United States there are 664,201 with the virus and 33,633 deaths so far. World Wide there are 2,127,873 infected with 141,454 deaths.  In the face of those statistics over just a short few weeks, how anyone can say this "is more political than a danger to the public" is absurd.  Just a few weeks ago we in the United States were shocked and sympathetic to the country of Italy who had surpassed other countries to have the most people infected with Covid-19.  Today the United States has surpassed Italy!  And some of our governors, congressmen and senators are saying it's not a big deal, ease restrictions and let people go about their normal daily business.  Some people say, "It's bad in New York, Michigan or other states but not where I live".  That's what a lot of other people said before it spread to the states, cities and towns where they live.   Corona Virus is described as follows:  "Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) is an infectious disease caused by a newly discovered coronavirus.  The virus that causes COVID-19 is mainly transmitted through droplets generated when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or exhales. These droplets are too heavy to hang in the air, and quickly fall on floors or surfaces.  You can be infected by breathing in the virus if you are within close proximity of someone who has COVID-19, or by touching a contaminated surface and then your eyes, nose or mouth".  Maybe I'm a little sensitive working in the medical field and seeing the results and dead bodies at my work place when some people say the flu kills people too.  When I get the flu, I recover.  I am at high risk with diabetes, lung and heart issues.  This is so much worse than the flu, there is no cure or proven vaccine and If I get this, my chances of survival are slim.  That is what makes me so angry at people who take this lightly, disregard the stay at home orders or are inconsiderate.  My life is more at stake now more than ever.  Now that we finally have some ideas on how to slow the spread that are working, people want to stop and go back to how things were before.  That just doesn't make any sense to me at all.  If we can do whatever we can to help save a loved one's life, to me the sacrifices are worth it!

[wettomm]

I heard an interesting statistic today.  The first death happened in mid Feb. by mid March there were less than 100 cases nationally.  Today the WaPo shows 33,286.  This is an under count because it mostly reflects deaths of people who had tested positive before they died and doesn't count people who died without testing both at home and hospitals.  Rusty pins is correct this is about saving our health care workers and our health care system.  Even people who need to be hospitalized for other reasons like trauma, heart attacks, or strokes.  My cousin had a stroke 6 months ago.  His rehab is basically on hold because of the virus.  There is a lot of collateral damage.  Hospitals are getting in financial trouble especially some rural hospitals and Moscow Mitch won't consider additional help for the hospitals.  The food chain especially meat packing plants are showing a lot of strain.  That plant in Sioux Falls has over 600 people infected and it's not the only one.  This is not helping our national nightmare.

[foreverdl]

I get soo mad at these jerks when I go to the local Walmart, and grocery store. We really don't want to go anyplace, but we need food water etc. My wife and I are both over 62, and both in the high risk because of our health issues. And these jerks are in the store, with whole families NOT a one has a mask, running around the store, and not even keeping a 2 foot distance from us.  I look down an isle, and its full of people so we just make a U turn, and go the other way, and go around to the end of the isle. and sometimes that won't work. 

They just think they are above it and they won't get sick.

Today on the local news was actually Protesters holding signs saying that there rights are being violated ???? What a bunch of Idiots. Just wait till one of the protesters get sick and spread it to others maybe in the group, or there own family. I don't wish it on them, but that's probably what it will take for a group of them to get the massage to stay home for there own good, just till the curve starts going down. 

We try to do as mush of our shopping on line as we can.But the won't ship things like water Walmart online says a lot of there items are in store only. But STAY Home.and do without. Then Walmart keeps back ordering things, and they won't even tell us, or even answer emails, I tried to do a chat and the wait time was over 2 hours.  

Rusty Pins,

Thank you for helping others, and putting your life on the line.

[Firefly 35]

6 hours ago, wettomm said:

The first death happened in mid Feb. by mid March there were less than 100 cases nationally.  Today the WaPo shows 33,286.  This is an under count because it mostly reflects deaths of people who had tested positive before they died and doesn't count people who died without testing both at home and hospitals. 

That's a good point.  There are likely a lot of deaths from people who hadn't gotten tested which were not counted in the totals.  Resources are MUCH better spent preventing more deaths from happening.

On 4/16/2020 at 8:29 AM, rusty pins said:

Just a little pissed off here, working in the medical field like I do.  Finally with the stay at home orders we are seeing the curve start to flatten out.  What's happening then?  People protesting in front of the state capitol to open everything up and get back to normal!  State senators from the opposing party trying to get the governor to relax the orders because she extended it to the end of the month.  Politicians all over the country trying to rush and open things back up in the face of this deadly pandemic!  DUH!  Look at China.  When they finally did start to open the city after months of isolation the cases of Covid-19 started to rise again.  Sure, I know people are struggling and we all want to get back to normal, but WE HAVE TO GIVE IT MORE TIME!  Just because in some states the curve is starting to flatten doesn't mean it's over! 

I don't work in the medical industry but I can imagine it must be like hell.  When this is all over you should really take some vacation time!

[Clr224]

When they start setting up a morgue in a state park parking lot, I’d have to say that Covid-19 is more than just a political scare story. 

[DiaperedJoe]

20 hours ago, BoTox said:

Last I knew NY f'in City didn't dictate my freedoms and rights.

When it comes to public health and safety, the Supreme Court has said you have very few rights.

SCOTUS has repeatedly said that States have vast, sweeping powers when it comes to enforcing public health and safety.

Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana Board of Health, 186 U.S. 380 (1902).  The Supreme Court ruled 118 years ago that it is completely Constitutional for states to order mandatory quarantines for diseases, and that said quarantines explicitly don't infringe on any individual civil rights or interstate commerce powers of the Federal government.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905).  The Supreme Court ruled 115 years ago that it's completely Constitutional to legally compel people get a vaccine, and that any individual rights about making your own healthcare decisions are overruled by the compelling state interest to protect public health.  Legally speaking, deciding to not get a vaccine is a privilege that the states allow you, not a right you have.

The actual case law is VERY strongly on the side of the government to do whatever it takes in an emergency to protect the lives of others.  Those are longstanding precedents that public health law and policy in the US has been built on for over a century.

This isn't about your "freedoms", sorry, but it's WELL established case law in the United States that when it comes to diseases and pandemics, the rights of the rest of society to stay alive take precedence over your personal interpretation of the Bill of Rights.

[DL-Boy]

21 minutes ago, DiaperedJoe said:

This isn't about your "freedoms", sorry, but it's WELL established case law in the United States that when it comes to diseases and pandemics, the rights of the rest of society to stay alive take precedence over your personal interpretation of the Bill of Rights.

+1

[rusty pins]

To show I am really on board with protection, I have changed my profile picture!  Thanks everyone for the support and your hopes that I stay safe.

[~Brian~]

@rusty pins

Is that mask an N95?  Stay Safe out there Man

Brian

3 hours ago, rusty pins said:

To show I am really on board with protection, I have changed my profile picture!  Thanks everyone for the support and your hopes that I stay safe.

 

[BoTox]

And the sheep will follow the one that feeds them to the slaughterhouse. Rights, once surrendered, must be fought to win back.

Flattening the curve won't keep one person from contracting the virus. The whole purpose is to keep the hospitals from being overrun. They are not. The Seattle hospital they set up didn't get one patient. The Mercy ship in NYC with 1,000 beds has had very few patients. Upstate NY has sent ventilators to NYC.

Those that are sick should segregate themselves away from those that are not at higher risk. AKA, the rest of the world should get on with their business.

[repetitivediaperwetter88]

A Person is smart and calm. People are Dumb Panicky Creatures and you know that. Can't fix stupid. 

[Elfy]

4 hours ago, BoTox said:

Those that are sick should segregate themselves away from those that are not at higher risk. AKA, the rest of the world should get on with their business.

There are several big issues with this attitude.

Firstly the most infectious time period for the virus is the incubation period. For five days you can have the virus before any symptoms appear. That means, with what you're saying, people will be walking around spreading the virus without realising they have it. For five days you could be walking around spreading it to people and you can surely see how quickly things spiral out of control in that situation.

There are also a lot of questions about whether or not beating the virus gives lasting immunity. In which case things would be even worse.

You also contradict yourself when you say flattening the curve won't help but then also point out that hospitals are not being overrun... The reason hospitals are keeping up it precisely because of efforts to flatten the curve.

If you don't trust the government then fine but you should trust the scientists who are working hard to stop the spread and develop a vaccine.

[waddlergirl]

Ohhh I hope it becomes fashionable to wear a diaper under multiple layers of rubber and plastic clothing

On a more serious note, people seem really happy to tell other people what they must do, the reality is the only person anyone has 100% control over is themselves hardly anyone actually knows if they have it or not, not everyone who is old or infirm will suffer badly or everyone who is healthy and young will not die the best way to reduce the spread of this virus is keeping isolated.
Stay Home, keep safe.
 

[dlsafrica]

Here in South Africa we have been on stay at home except for essential shopping, pharmacy, doctor or banking. No walking dogs or jogging  (people have been arrested and fined, and a politician disciplined). The first two or three cases occurred one Sunday.  By the Thursday of that week our president was going to go on national TV and state the measures, but wanted to consult with medical personnel and cabinet first. He ended up making the address on the Monday night.  My money came through on the 26th so the fact that the initial three week lockdown started at midnight of 27th helped. We've had it extended by two weeks, and now the rate of person to person infection is showing.  The idea was that it takes three weeks for symptoms to show, so isolating movement to essential things would mean the cases could be identified and treated. Unfortunately the number of cases here yesterday was over 2700, but the measures are working.  The lockdown was extended to 3rd May now and might be extended more (there is a graph showing seven weeks is optimal time to make an outbreak die down). But economy is being affected.  Thousands of homeless people who don't have access to the internet and therefore information, have been relocated.  For me, I'm okay not being around people, but when our church group meets on Zoom, it doesn't work well on my phone. I need to see people so I stay on, but I can't really talk to them or hear what they are saying.  Plus side of this.. South Africa has been rated second best in the world at handling this, after Algeria 

[foreverdl]

13 hours ago, rusty pins said:

To show I am really on board with protection, I have changed my profile picture!  Thanks everyone for the support and your hopes that I stay safe.

Love your pic,  I thank you again for your helping while we try to do are part to stay at home and do our part to keep it from getting worse.

My sister works in a hospital ,, I try daily not to worry about her.

 

[foreverdl]

22 hours ago, BoTox said:

And the sheep will follow the one that feeds them to the slaughterhouse. Rights, once surrendered, must be fought to win back.

Flattening the curve won't keep one person from contracting the virus. The whole purpose is to keep the hospitals from being overrun. They are not. The Seattle hospital they set up didn't get one patient. The Mercy ship in NYC with 1,000 beds has had very few patients. Upstate NY has sent ventilators to NYC.

Those that are sick should segregate themselves away from those that are not at higher risk. AKA, the rest of the world should get on with their business.

If a person can be symptom free for even close to 5 days, while they are walking around without a mask, spreading the virus,,,    If you are going on with life as if no one else matters,,,,,  you can plan to get the virus, maybe not even knowing that you have it and then you infect hundreds of people and on and on. all it takes is a few  people to infect a lot of people. I would rather be one Non infected person keeping safe at home till the numbers go down, and even then we should be safe when going out,,,, I think we could be wearing mask's and or at least keeping our distance till late into this year.  If we don't take this seriously the out come won't be good.

 

Also,, I take the comment of the Mercy ship hospital only having a few patients As a positive Note

[PamperedinthePoconos]

Rusty Pins: Great 'rant' there, what you wrote there should be posted elsewhere, editorials, etc... Couldn't agree with you more, you said everything perfectly. And also THANKS for the work you do. YES. people are going a bit stir crazy with all this not being able to out , but everyone needs to understand let this pass then we will be back to normal. Also Cheers to everyone else who agrees with what he posted.

Everyone...Stay Padded & Safe!!! PitP

[rusty pins]

I do have to say in some cases it has become political - when POTUS tweets for people in Wisconsin, Michigan (my state and one of the top 5 in the US with Corona-19) and Virginia to publicly protest the stay at home order because they are the swing states with Democratic Governors.  This virus should not be used for personal campaigning.  Governor Cuomo of New York makes some good points.  I'm not saying I'm against the president, I just think under the current situation there is enough concern and panic without telling people to publicly protest when there is an outbreak and stay at home order and more people testing positive and dying each day in my state. 

[Elfy]

It's quite incredible that a pandemic is turned into a political issue ?

[vvp39]

Michael Fumento on the models used to push for the lockdowns: His column has lots of links.

https://issuesinsights.com/2020/04/18/after-repeated-failures-its-time-to-permanently-dump-epidemic-models/