Unwanted Holding

[jaytay]

So since the covid quarantine started a few weeks ago, I’ve taken the opportunity to wear 24/7 around the house. I still use the toilet to poop in the mornings, but wear and wet my diapers the rest of the time. This is probably the longest I’ve gone wearing 24/7, but I have had a few 24/7 streaks in the past.

I don’t know why this happens, but usually on the 4th or 5th day of wearing, it’s like my untraining just stops. For the first three days, I find it pretty easy to let my bladder go on autopilot and release whenever it needs to. This is great because I can wet in small and frequent amounts, and I experience little to no diaper leaks. But on the 4th or 5th day it’s like that feature just halts, and I find myself holding if I’m not actively paying attention to my bladder, which is unfortunate because that leads to more flooding and diaper leaks. It’s really frustrating and I’ve now noticed that this happens every time I wear for this long.

Has anyone else experienced this when untraining or wearing 24/7? Or just me lol?

[growlycub]

That sounds strange, but I recommend setting a repeating timer and consistently drinking water so that you can practice wetting. It's harder to remain open if you don't have enough opportunities.

[DAQ]

I have taken this opportunity to go 24/7 and untrain as well. I have found something similar.

I think the problem is everyone assumes that untraining is a linear path whereas it is a very bump ride.

5 hours ago, jaytay said:

 This is probably the longest I’ve gone wearing 24/7, but I have had a few 24/7 streaks in the past.

To me this is the most telling. If you have gone 24/7 for short periods of times in the past you have had these periods of high excitability. You are constantly focused on it. Odds are you are staying relaxed but just not thinking about it because diapers are becoming a habit vs that super exciting thing that you do on nights/weekends. I think Growlycub has it right here. It is the same thing that I am doing. I am wearing a fitbit that buzzes every hour to remind me to "walk" or congratulate me on walking. I am using that timer to remind myself to relax. If i cannot release at that moment I get up to stand and wet.

[jaytay]

15 minutes ago, DAQ said:

 

I have taken this opportunity to go 24/7 and untrain as well. I have found something similar.

 

Nice to know I’m not the only one who’s experienced this! And I think you’re probably on to something about the excitability factor. I also have a smart watch that reminds me get up every hour, I’ll definitely start using it as a reminder to relax now, great idea!

[Bbuttons]

Me too!!!

[Dunham]

I think you need to do everything in your diapers your confuse your body. Don't remove the diaper at all and just let go of everything.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[rusty pins]

Is your goal to untrain and end up 24/7 and incontinent, or to wear 24/7 only while stuck at home during this COVID-19 crises and then go back to underwear away from home, work or when diapers are not convenient?  Maybe if it's the latter, it's causing you a mental block you are unaware of.

[jaytay]

7 hours ago, rusty pins said:

Is your goal to untrain and end up 24/7 and incontinent, or to wear 24/7 only while stuck at home during this COVID-19 crises and then go back to underwear away from home, work or when diapers are not convenient?  Maybe if it's the latter, it's causing you a mental block you are unaware of.

I guess for me it’s more like, i’m gonna wear 24/7 while stuck at home during the crisis, and if by the end of it I have developed some level of incontinence, I will accept and embrace that. If at the end I haven’t gained any level of incontinence then that’s ok with me too!

[Fakename4me]

Set a timer for two hours and empty your bladder when the timer rings.  Reset the timer and do it again both day AND night.  After a few weeks of this (21 days to set a habit?)* you should have to empty your bladder about every two hours without the timer.  

 

Correction, in a very non-scientific search (Google) I found that one (1) article in Psychology Today states that it takes as long as 66 days to change a habit.

[foreverdl]

Unfortunately if you have subconscious fears of peeing in public places, ( I have developed shy bladder) it will stop you from wetting your diaper after the normal time you are used to 24/7. I have worn 24/7 for I think 8 yrs and I still can't go automatic I have tried a lot of things, See I have dribbles and then I go to impossible to pee when I am busting full. I would rather just keep the dribbles constant so I would not have to force myself to pee. Its not successful sometimes no matter how hard I try to pee when its locked up.

So all that just to say wearing 24/7 alone won't keep you relaxed enough, anyone that has ideas I am also looking for ideas, and welcome them.

[kincaid]

On 4/5/2020 at 9:38 AM, foreverdl said:

Unfortunately if you have subconscious fears of peeing in public places, ( I have developed shy bladder) it will stop you from wetting your diaper after the normal time you are used to 24/7. I have worn 24/7 for I think 8 yrs and I still can't go automatic I have tried a lot of things, See I have dribbles and then I go to impossible to pee when I am busting full. I would rather just keep the dribbles constant so I would not have to force myself to pee. Its not successful sometimes no matter how hard I try to pee when its locked up.

So all that just to say wearing 24/7 alone won't keep you relaxed enough, anyone that has ideas I am also looking for ideas, and welcome them.

I too experienced this, having a shy bladder myself I was never able to properly untrain. Though there were sphincter spasms and over impulsed nerves involved due to a turp surgery, which made it even harder. Not even high doses of several types of muscle relaxers or Botox would help

so after years of struggling and even being forced to use Foley catheters for months I was finally granted my wish by cutting out a small piece of the urethral sphincter. Now it can relax better but I still noticed it spasms but I leak regardless. I find it very special feeling not to have to worry about relaxing and not having full control. 

But in all those years nothing in the 12 month program worked for me. And neither was the medical world. So I was desperate and sick of it, and now I'm finally at peace. 

[BlakeJordan]

I too experienced this, having a shy bladder myself I was never able to properly untrain. Though there were sphincter spasms and over impulsed nerves involved due to a turp surgery, which made it even harder. Not even high doses of several types of muscle relaxers or Botox would help [emoji20]
so after years of struggling and even being forced to use Foley catheters for months I was finally granted my wish by cutting out a small piece of the urethral sphincter. Now it can relax better but I still noticed it spasms but I leak regardless. I find it very special feeling not to have to worry about relaxing and not having full control. 
But in all those years nothing in the 12 month program worked for me. And neither was the medical world. So I was desperate and sick of it, and now I'm finally at peace. 

Is there a name for this procedure? I have a neurogenic bladder along with mixed incontinence, and widespread small fiber nerve damage. I would not mind starting down the prerequisite path if I could get some relief and consistency. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated both on the procedure and the process to get it considered.

Thanks!

[kincaid]

58 minutes ago, BlakeJordan said:

Is there a name for this procedure? I have a neurogenic bladder along with mixed incontinence, and widespread small fiber nerve damage. I would not mind starting down the prerequisite path if I could get some relief and consistency. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated both on the procedure and the process to get it considered.

Thanks!

They never gave me an official name, officially though it's called a sphincterectomy but it can be done in so many ways.

I asked to do a partial excision of the urethral sphincter. And so the doc said "so... basically you want me to cut you incontinent?" And I confirmed. Given the history of treatments and problems he agreed to cut out a small V section on the upper side of the sphincter but not on the lower side and not a wider part because he'd jeopardize his career otherwise but it definitely did the trick!

[BlakeJordan]

They never gave me an official name, officially though it's called a sphincterectomy but it can be done in so many ways.
I asked to do a partial excision of the urethral sphincter. And so the doc said "so... basically you want me to cut you incontinent?" And I confirmed. Given the history of treatments and problems he agreed to cut out a small V section on the upper side of the sphincter but not on the lower side and not a wider part because he'd jeopardize his career otherwise but it definitely did the trick!

Thank you!

[BitterGrey]

On 3/29/2020 at 3:09 PM, jaytay said:

I don’t know why this happens, but usually on the 4th or 5th day of wearing, it’s like my untraining just stops. For the first three days, I find it pretty easy to let my bladder go on autopilot and release whenever it needs to. This is great because I can wet in small and frequent amounts, and I experience little to no diaper leaks. But on the 4th or 5th day it’s like that feature just halts, and I find myself holding if I’m not actively paying attention to my bladder, which is unfortunate because that leads to more flooding and diaper leaks. It’s really frustrating and I’ve now noticed that this happens every time I wear for this long.

Interesting. Is it possible that this is due to a shift in observations? If some wettings were more conscious than others, and the amount of conscious intervention required decreased with practice, then we might expect some wettings to go unnoticed. It would be reasonable to expect these to tend to be the easier wettings. If these easier wettings were conscious enough to be noticed for the first few days, but not in the 4th or 5th day, they'd disappear from the sample. This might give the perception that the average wetting is more difficult.

These easier wettings might happen when the diaper is a little wet (so you won't notice that it is suddenly getting wet).

On the other hand, there is clearly more than this going on. Otherwise the more difficult wettings would also progressively require less conscious effort, eventually resulting in a general elimination of conscious continence (and possibly, side conversations about surgical interventions).

[Sarah_Hillcrest]

@jaytay

I noticed something similar.  I would have either periods of very regular and easy wettings where I felt like my bladder was relaxed all the time.  Then later it would seem like my baldder was on lockdown and I would flood every few hours.  To pee I had to really push.  I think it had to do with what I'd ate and drank.  

[oznl]

Over a year's unbroken 24/7 diaper use and this still happens sometimes.  It seems like the degree of "automatic" I can expect with respect to diaper use does fluctuate over time although there's been no point in recent memory that I've felt any urge to pee.  It's more that I'll have a realisation that I haven't wet in a while and I'll have to concentrate to do so and find that there might be 4 or 5 seconds worth of pee there instead of the usual 1 second dribble that dissipates into dripping.

I've noticed that stressful situations can provoke unconscious holding.

23 hours ago, BitterGrey said:

If some wettings were more conscious than others, and the amount of conscious intervention required decreased with practice, then we might expect some wettings to go unnoticed. It would be reasonable to expect these to tend to be the easier wettings. If these easier wettings were conscious enough to be noticed for the first few days, but not in the 4th or 5th day, they'd disappear from the sample. This might give the perception that the average wetting is more difficult.

Month #13 and this *might* be happening sometimes during the day but only *sometimes*.  I'm not sure if I truly fail to notice that I'm wetting but more along the lines that it's such a frequent and unremarkable event that I might be more or less instantly forgetting that I did it.  A few times during the day now I've reached changing time and thought that I wasn't very wet to discover that I actually DID need a diaper change.  There is some evidence appearing that I think I've been dry but in fact I've been wetting and not remembering it.

This seems similar to what I've already experienced during nights:  waking up in a wet diaper with an empty bladder and dim or sometimes no recollection of how it happened.

[BlakeJordan]

I'm not sure if I truly fail to notice that I'm wetting but more along the lines that it's such a frequent and unremarkable event that I might be more or less instantly forgetting that I did it.  A few times during the day now I've reached changing time and thought that I wasn't very wet to discover that I actually DID need a diaper change.  There is some evidence appearing that I think I've been dry but in fact I've been wetting and not remembering it.
This seems similar to what I've already experienced during nights:  waking up in a wet diaper with an empty bladder and dim or sometimes no recollection of how it happened.

My guess would be that during the day it’s likely a combo of all three; stress if retaining, unremarkable, and low risk. More accurately I would say that it’s not really forgetting, rather not remembering in the first place. For a relevant example (at the time of this post) think of the effort that it takes to remember NOT to touch your face, and all the times you do touch your face or are about to and then catch yourself. Something that used to be very unremarkable and low risk has become the opposite- until it becomes a habit and the norm, rather than the exception.

When we sleep, we actually typically wake up between sleep cycles for 2-3 minutes but rarely remember- this is normal and natural. I’m not positive but if my memory serves correctly it’s typically within this transition from one cycle to the next that bed wetting typically occurs- when our body is least likely to be paralyzed and just slipping out of rem. Why there is a strong correlation in the peeing yourself dream and waking up wet or wetting. In any case it would not be that unusual for one to “consciously” wake up, wet their diaper, and fall back to sleep, and would match up with our biology and again not remembering in the first place rather than forgetting.

[foreverdl]

20 hours ago, Sarah_Hillcrest said:

@jaytay

I noticed something similar.  I would have either periods of very regular and easy wettings where I felt like my bladder was relaxed all the time.  Then later it would seem like my baldder was on lockdown and I would flood every few hours.  To pee I had to really push.  I think it had to do with what I'd ate and drank.  

I have wondered if some foods can make it hard to pee ,, like a lockdown also, have you figured out any foods that may be the problem? I drink as much liquid as I possibly can every day, I don't drink alcohol my pain meds will cause problems if I do,  I am not a big eater. I eat snack foods, but I have issues eating, what I can eat is limited I choke easy, can't eat any kind of spice, I can't chew much My back teeth are gone, from oral cancer, radiation etc etc. If you have any foods that cause you problems if I eat them I can avoid them.

[oznl]

On 4/13/2020 at 7:02 PM, foreverdl said:

I have wondered if some foods can make it hard to pee ,, like a lockdown also, have you figured out any foods that may be the problem? I drink as much liquid as I possibly can every day, I don't drink alcohol my pain meds will cause problems if I do,  I am not a big eater. I eat snack foods, but I have issues eating, what I can eat is limited I choke easy, can't eat any kind of spice, I can't chew much My back teeth are gone, from oral cancer, radiation etc etc. If you have any foods that cause you problems if I eat them I can avoid them.

Salt will do it for me.  Salty food seems to trigger fluid retention.  Alcohol is a deceptive mistress: paradoxically, it doesn't always seem to precipitate pee but I suspect sometimes it drives fluid retention that turns into pee at some unpredictable day or two later...