Illegal Immigration..

[darkravendl]

Up until 1914 anyone was welcome if they could afford to get on a boat/other transportation to get here. Since we have a mandated minimum wage illegals actually help the country as long as they are not taking advantage of programs that are for citizens, otherwise end the mandated minimum wage. Its one or the other.

[Dubious]

Illegals give Americans jobs, cause someone has to patrol the borders and throw out whoever get in

[Dirty Diaper/Maxipad Lover]

THANK YOU! The border needs to be secured. Immigration needs to be fixed. But this very second we have to take care of those basically abandoned children until we can get them back to their families.

I couldn't agree with you more Mikey. The children who are basically abandoned at our border need to be taken care of before we can do anything else, but once that situation is dealt with, we need to take a serious look at our immigration policies and bring them into the 21st century. I wouldn't be opposed to amnesty for at least some of the people that are here illegally, but I wouldn't want to see it granted until a new immigration policy was put into place first. From the research I've done, it looks like amnesty was granted in the 1980s as part of immigration reform, but the actual reform measures were never passed. If amnesty won't be granted until reform measures are passed, it could provide congress with an incentive to actually pass reform measures, especially since the number of hispanic voters who are affected by such reform laws are sharply on the rise. I also think that anyone whose served in the U.S. military and received an honorable discharge should be granted citizenship after serving, because anyone willing to take a bullet for the country has clearly proven where their loyalties lie. The least we can do for people in this situation is to make them citizens.

[Bettypooh]

Up until 1914 anyone was welcome if they could afford to get on a boat/other transportation to get here.

Not quite true. The US set quotas for Chinese immigrants in the late 1800's because of the huge numbers who were arriving, mostly to work building railroads in the west. Which would have taken twice as long to build otherwise- those guys worked their butts off under horrible conditions with large numbers dying in the process. And other nationalities were also targeted with quotas before 1914 as they were deemed to be less desirable than others And there are still immigration quotas and other restrictions today, though what part they play in this matter I am not sure.

[rusty pins]

I have had several hispanic friends, and I live in southwest Michigan where we grow a lot of fruit and vegitables.

[BabyGizmo]

As a Canadian, i understand impartial immigration laws are a problem. Currently Canada has very open laws about who can enter, and the only people givin any grief is the Americans (we cant say we hate the Philippines but we can hate our neibour ???)

The problem here is not the workers, infact we need more! our population is so low we dont even get fancy flavours of Mountain Dew. The problem is that these workers live 3-5 families a household, all work at McDonalds close by and dont need a car, so they only pay a small ammount for rent and nessesities, and send that money back to their families, where a single days wage here is a fortune to them there. a 6 bedroom house over there is like 40K CAD. They Swap out family members every 3 year visa cycle and get rich, while canada's economy sinks because even he poor are not spending their money here, it is all flowing out. and we are too political correct to do anything about it encase we offend someone.

[Jennynappy]

First, is this a US-centric post or what?

[Baby Brian]

Stephen Colbert did a story on this in New Mexico, USA. He actually went and worked in a field him self (probably not even a whole day though) and also recruited a bunch of out of work and homeless americans to join him and get paid to do it too. EVERY one of them quit and went back to being employed/homeless sighting it was too physically demanding for too little pay.

[Diapered Jason]

If anything is going to change, it is going to have to be with congress, which is not going to happen this year. As a result, the point of the op is, well he didn't really have a point.

I am for making legal immigration much much smoother. Right now, it is almost impossible to get in legally, with so many families being fractured by the system.

I also don't really give a shit about securing the border, as that is a waste of money. Besides, I don't think any amount of security will stop it. Furthermore, immigrating into this country illegally will not help you. You can't get any benefit nor can you ever complain, therefore the system actually takes advantage of illegal immigrants by paying them much less and putting them in bad working conditions. This has been the case since the immigration system we have has been established. It must be stopped as it is a form of modern day slavery and the only way that can be done is through immigration reform.

Also, if people did actual research where they looked at studies that looked at this issue carefully, they would find the results give a counterintuitive conclusion. Legal immigrants actually produce more jobs then they take. Think about it. According to the studies, the low-skilled labor jobs they take boost productivity and in addition, legal immigrants can be quite entrepreneurial.

[Elfy]

To be honest, you are never going to get rid of immigration, legal or otherwise.

[Wet Knight]

To be honest, you are never going to get rid of immigration, legal or otherwise, and to be honest who are we to decide who gets to go where?

[AwakenEvil]

Wait till aliens come... this whole thing will be a moot point...

[Baby Brian]

I agree with making immigration easier. I'd say instead of throwing so much money at keeping them out lets funnel it towards welcome communities. Temporary facilities where immigrants can be housed until they can speak english, understand our laws, and have been registered to pay their fair share of taxes. Once they graduate I'd more than welcome them into the rest of the usa.

[square_duck]

Commenting on the Illegal alien/ Immigrant 'issue'. Something that people either forget or ignore or don't even bother to think about is the basic premise that The United States of America was founded on:....THAT IF YOU WANT SOMETHING, YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR IT AND EARN IT! Nothing is given. This is the ONLY way that an individual can attain INDEPENDENCE AND SELF DETERMINATION, a trait that Americans in general are known for.

For immigrants coming here, their FIRST task is to go through the immigration process and WORK THROUGH IT AND EARN their citizenship. PERIOD! Nothing is given. Yet there are those bleeding hearts who want to use psychological and emotional tactics (and abuse) in order to push forward an agenda of bypassing this basic structure of EARNING YOUR WAY, and just hand out Citizenships and ID cards and Licenses like it was candy. Nothing can be more destructive!

Why you ask??? because what about all the MILLIONS of Immigrants from around the world who DID go through the process?? Who DID take the courses and classes and paid what ever fees and such?? Who Did WORK FOR AND EARN their way and EARNED CITIZENSHIP???? what about them?? what message do they get if they work their butt off to have what they want, only to see some other whiny immigrant group be awarded citizenship for little to nothing????

The message they get is that they WASTED THEIR TIME working for something that Liberals are more then willing to just give away (In exchange for getting Votes and being reelected)

It is this simple idea that you must work for and earn what ever it is you want that sets the United States apart from the rest of the world. The concept that the CITIZENS of this country Own it, and NOT the Government, yet the very same Government is in the process of giving away all the benefits of Citizenship that only citizens should be receiving

Maybe the Immigration process is too complex or needs work...ok. BUT you have to keep intact the basic premise and spirit of that process and the idea that here in this country, you must work for and earn what you want, PERIOD!!

There are factions that want to undermine that idea and would rather do hand outs to everyone rather then teach them how to succeed and be independent and have self determination. The greatest threat to the Current Government is people who are independent, have self determination, are educated and know what they want and can work for it and earn it with out Government assistance. These types of people scare the hell out of liberal politicians, so the politicians turn around and brand them as being evil because they are 'wealthy' or have more then others and thats a "BAD THING" even though they worked for everything they have! They earned it!!! I guess the next thing to come is that they should be sharing their good fortune with those who are less fortunate...which is again wrong! because those receiving such things, again didn't work for or EARN it, where someone else did!

The United States of America IS NOT A tribe or Village! It is a country that has VAST opportunities, abundance and wealth, all of which are available to ANYONE!!! Anyone who is willing to work for and earn it! nothing is given!

As a parallel anecdote, I read a while ago about some applicants in New York who had applied to the Fire Department to become Firemen, but they couldn't pass some of the tests or exams.....so they petitioned (whined) the State and Fire Department to lower the standards so that more people who wanted to be Firemen and work for the Fire department could do so....HOW SCREWY IS THAT??? If you can't pass the test or exams, then all that says is that you don't REALLY want to be a Fireman!! You need to train harder and study harder, because it certainly wont be given to you!

Plus, what does this tell all the other Firemen who DID pass the tests and exams?? Again, that they WASTED THEIR TIME doing so. Also, think about this....had this happened and these whiners been allowed into the Department....how would they be perceived by their peers (those who passed tests and EARNED their job)??? These people would be considered "Second (2nd) rate Fire personnel!! They didn't do as well as the others..would they or could they be trusted to do an equal job?? would they be willing (or able) to run into a burning building to work the fire and assist anyone trapped?? what kind of sacrifice would they be willing to make to do the job??? THEY COULD"NT EVEN PASS THE ENTRANCE EXAMS?? HOW COULD THEY DO THE FRIGGING JOB???

They would be looked down on, and looked at with suspicion and NOT trusted to "be there when needed" because they didn't EARN it.....Such is the same with Citizenship with this country. Work for it and earn it if it is truly important to you. If not....go back to where you came from...and try again when you get your thinking straight!

People who want "free citizenship" only want the benefits (what ever is left) that they perceive are "free'. But nothing here is free, it's all worked for and earned or paid for by someone else's sacrifice! This is what a LOT of people just don't understand!

Personally, I work for and earn my "Freedom" each and everyday I work....every pay check I get where taxes are taken out for what ever purpose, (Social security, Medicare Blah blah blah) Those things are MINE because I worked for them and earned them! PERIOD! I worked for it and paid for it with time and effort through out my lifetime! And yet there are people who are trying very hard to destroy that.

Yeah there will also be those who ask about my 'citizenship', where I came from (if they want to play THAT card) and my response is that I am a 4th or 5th generation American (depending on which side of the family you look at). My ancestors came mostly from Europe, Wales (UK) and Eastern Canada. For the European side, they learned English and worked hard and survived even thrived, so that generations down the road, we as a family and as individuals can continue to do so. All with hard work and earning what we have and learning how to do better and improve so that we and future family members can survive and thrive. This doesn't come free, this is all earned. Earned through education, perseverance and hard work, NOT through whining, complaining and with 'free' hand outs.

This country wasn't built that way, and it certainly cannot survive that way either.

[Bettypooh]

Wait till aliens come... this whole thing will be a moot point...

[ForbiddenFruit]

That was a hell of a long post just to say 'fuck you, I got mine'

[Dill_Pickle]

But, Forbidden Fruit, I thought that was what the OP did, too!!!

[drynot]

As a Canadian I can honestly say that the very last thing I'd ever want is to become American.

[Dubious]

IF I were forced to move to America, I would live in Canada

[good kid]

As a Canadian I can honestly say that the very last thing I'd ever want is to become American.

[Dirty Diaper/Maxipad Lover]

Immigration will not harm the US so long as there is not too much of it happening in a given timeframe, and as a soverign nation we do have the right to control it as we see fit. We do have a long history of trying to do just that- research it yourself

These are excellent points, Bettypooh. One thing that's changed in recent decades though is that we used to view immigration as a generally positive thing instead of a generally negative one. We put quotas on those Chinese workers in the 19th century, but we also were happy to have them do our dirty work building those railroads. It was really only after the supply of those workers exceeded the demand that people began to have a negative view of those immigrants. Another change that's happened since we've started viewing immigration as a negative thing is that we no longer steal the best talent from other countries. (A great example of this happened after we beat the Nazis in WW2. When the war ended, we took a bunch of German scientists and put them to work for us including a man by the name of Werner Van Braun who advanced our space program significantly.) We used to invite people to study here, and if they excelled in their field, we'd give them a green card as soon as they graduated so they wouldn't go home and we could keep them and their skills in the United States. We don't do that anymore so people who come here legally to study and leave when they're supposed to actually take their skills with them instead of putting them to use here. While we have a right to control our borders, there are some people who we just shouldn't be deporting, and who we should actually be incentivizing to either stay or to come here in the first place. I should also point out that most of our illegal immigrants aren't people who crossed a border, but instead are people who got on a plane, came here legally, and just never left when they were supposed to. Many of these people have been trying to get legal status since they were here legally though, so deporting them just to restart the process doesn't do anything except make the naturalization process even slower.

[BabyGizmo]

The difference of immigrants and refugees is actually an amazing point.

[Diapered Jason]

The difference of immigrants and refugees is actually an amazing point.

Here we have a political correctness issue revolving around immigrants and refugees. immigrants tend to try to be a member of society and reform to their language and manners, while refugees seem to believe you should respect THEM. as such we can no longer mention Jesus in school, say Christmas, The rules about no masks in stores is being abused and and people are being robbed left and right. They demand to be trialed under the laws of their old country and toss out the bible for their own book in supreme court. Many of them refuse to even attempt to learn English.

Immigration is not just about jobs and the economy, It is also about way of life, something people don't seem to think they need to adapt to when they come over here. In such an unpopulated country, we are over flowing with immigrant workers and refugees because we have need of population expansion, but with only an estimated 18 million if 36 million people being naturals, how will we keep our identity? the USA doesn't have THAT particular issue.

I'm scratching my head to try and understand what your trying to say, because none of that is related to the topic, but then I realize half of the posts here are just people venting their personals problems with the American system against a group that can not defend themselves. They may even sound true, but they are really myths if you do research.

Myth 1. Allowing more legal immigration will create more Democratic voters. Obviously Republicans are furious about not winning the presidency and since the current sitting president is for legal immigration reform, the Republicans make this up. The truth is, many immigrants vote Republican too, but Republicans can do better if they actually started treating legal immigrants better.

Myth 2. Absorbing more immigrants will change us somehow. African Americans have existed in this country since its creation, but still, most politicians are white and male giving them an overwhelming political capital that no other group in the U.S. can stand against. I don't think legal immigrants from "unamerican like" countries will be able to penetrate the government anytime soon.

Myth 3. They took our jobs! The bad thing about this one is it sounds right, but it actually isn't despite being a perfect way to vent your anger if you were recently fired. The truth is legal immigrants usually take low-skill labor jobs, which boosts American productivity allowing the creation of more jobs. Plus, legal immigrants can create even more jobs by starting new businesses.

Myth 4. Illegal immigrants are thieves and live off of welfare and social security. First off, you can't get these benefits unless you can prove citizenship. Secondly, illegal immigrants will be the last people to brake the law, because they will be sent back if they do.

I hope this post makes people realize the fallacies with immigration which are widely mistaken as fact, even by the media.

[feralfreak]

Commenting on the Illegal alien/ Immigrant 'issue'. Something that people either forget or ignore or don't even bother to think about is the basic premise that The United States of America was founded on:....THAT IF YOU WANT SOMETHING, YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR IT AND EARN IT! Nothing is given. This is the ONLY way that an individual can attain INDEPENDENCE AND SELF DETERMINATION, a trait that Americans in general are known for.

For immigrants coming here, their FIRST task is to go through the immigration process and WORK THROUGH IT AND EARN their citizenship. PERIOD! Nothing is given. Yet there are those bleeding hearts who want to use psychological and emotional tactics (and abuse) in order to push forward an agenda of bypassing this basic structure of EARNING YOUR WAY, and just hand out Citizenships and ID cards and Licenses like it was candy. Nothing can be more destructive!

Why you ask??? because what about all the MILLIONS of Immigrants from around the world who DID go through the process?? Who DID take the courses and classes and paid what ever fees and such?? Who Did WORK FOR AND EARN their way and EARNED CITIZENSHIP???? what about them?? what message do they get if they work their butt off to have what they want, only to see some other whiny immigrant group be awarded citizenship for little to nothing????

The message they get is that they WASTED THEIR TIME working for something that Liberals are more then willing to just give away (In exchange for getting Votes and being reelected)

It is this simple idea that you must work for and earn what ever it is you want that sets the United States apart from the rest of the world. The concept that the CITIZENS of this country Own it, and NOT the Government, yet the very same Government is in the process of giving away all the benefits of Citizenship that only citizens should be receiving

Maybe the Immigration process is too complex or needs work...ok. BUT you have to keep intact the basic premise and spirit of that process and the idea that here in this country, you must work for and earn what you want, PERIOD!!

There are factions that want to undermine that idea and would rather do hand outs to everyone rather then teach them how to succeed and be independent and have self determination. The greatest threat to the Current Government is people who are independent, have self determination, are educated and know what they want and can work for it and earn it with out Government assistance. These types of people scare the hell out of liberal politicians, so the politicians turn around and brand them as being evil because they are 'wealthy' or have more then others and thats a "BAD THING" even though they worked for everything they have! They earned it!!! I guess the next thing to come is that they should be sharing their good fortune with those who are less fortunate...which is again wrong! because those receiving such things, again didn't work for or EARN it, where someone else did!

The United States of America IS NOT A tribe or Village! It is a country that has VAST opportunities, abundance and wealth, all of which are available to ANYONE!!! Anyone who is willing to work for and earn it! nothing is given!

As a parallel anecdote, I read a while ago about some applicants in New York who had applied to the Fire Department to become Firemen, but they couldn't pass some of the tests or exams.....so they petitioned (whined) the State and Fire Department to lower the standards so that more people who wanted to be Firemen and work for the Fire department could do so....HOW SCREWY IS THAT??? If you can't pass the test or exams, then all that says is that you don't REALLY want to be a Fireman!! You need to train harder and study harder, because it certainly wont be given to you!

Plus, what does this tell all the other Firemen who DID pass the tests and exams?? Again, that they WASTED THEIR TIME doing so. Also, think about this....had this happened and these whiners been allowed into the Department....how would they be perceived by their peers (those who passed tests and EARNED their job)??? These people would be considered "Second (2nd) rate Fire personnel!! They didn't do as well as the others..would they or could they be trusted to do an equal job?? would they be willing (or able) to run into a burning building to work the fire and assist anyone trapped?? what kind of sacrifice would they be willing to make to do the job??? THEY COULD"NT EVEN PASS THE ENTRANCE EXAMS?? HOW COULD THEY DO THE FRIGGING JOB???

They would be looked down on, and looked at with suspicion and NOT trusted to "be there when needed" because they didn't EARN it.....Such is the same with Citizenship with this country. Work for it and earn it if it is truly important to you. If not....go back to where you came from...and try again when you get your thinking straight!

People who want "free citizenship" only want the benefits (what ever is left) that they perceive are "free'. But nothing here is free, it's all worked for and earned or paid for by someone else's sacrifice! This is what a LOT of people just don't understand!

Personally, I work for and earn my "Freedom" each and everyday I work....every pay check I get where taxes are taken out for what ever purpose, (Social security, Medicare Blah blah blah) Those things are MINE because I worked for them and earned them! PERIOD! I worked for it and paid for it with time and effort through out my lifetime! And yet there are people who are trying very hard to destroy that.

Yeah there will also be those who ask about my 'citizenship', where I came from (if they want to play THAT card) and my response is that I am a 4th or 5th generation American (depending on which side of the family you look at). My ancestors came mostly from Europe, Wales (UK) and Eastern Canada. For the European side, they learned English and worked hard and survived even thrived, so that generations down the road, we as a family and as individuals can continue to do so. All with hard work and earning what we have and learning how to do better and improve so that we and future family members can survive and thrive. This doesn't come free, this is all earned. Earned through education, perseverance and hard work, NOT through whining, complaining and with 'free' hand outs.

This country wasn't built that way, and it certainly cannot survive that way either.

i agree with all of this, if you want to be here, be here the right way or get the fuck out! any who disagree with me, i dont care, and if you try attacking me for it ill just tell you to kiss my ass, we had illegals here that get drunk and ended up killing someone on a hit and run if i remember it right, and in any case, how can you be expected to be an honest citizen if you break our laws to get here? how can we expect you to honor our laws when you are by definition an illegal? im not against immigration, one of my best friends in reno was a lebanese, funny as hell and a damn nice man, he was a citizen, did it right, ive worked with a few people who came from other nations, they got here the way they are suppose to.

[Bettypooh]