Becoming a Bedwetter - When Irreversible?

[DL2000]

So I'm a DL and thinking about to become a bedwetter for multiple years now, I thought about the pros and cons and figured that there are more pros for me personally. I read through various posts in this forum about this topic but in this thread however, I would specifically like to talk about the timeframe when it's basically impossible to stop bedwetting if you become a bedwetter as an adult in case I change my mind and wanna go back to being dry at night.

I experimented a bit in the past and found a good amount of water I can drink before sleeping that ensures I'll wake up in the night so I can start peeing and go back to sleep. I'm certain that doing this over and over eventually leads to the body thinking that it's okay to let go, especially because of the inconvenience of waking up and interrupting the sleep. I would think that re-learning to be dry at night as an adult is harder than being a kid. 

Now the question is... when do you think it's basically permanent to be a bedwetter when starting in adulthood? After the first wet, unrememberable night? After 10, 100? After a few months of this happening?

I would love to hear theories, but also real experiences - I'm sure here are some people that became bedwetters by wearing and using diapers at night.

[CodHero24]

In my case, after training to be a bedwetter,

it became immediately permanent because I have absolutely no desire to go back to being dry at night.

I love waking up soggy, every single morning.

Wearing a diaper every night allows me to drink plenty of fluids before bed, with total uninterrupted deep sleep,

vivid dreams, and I wake up feeling refreshed every morning.

The biggest challenge is sleep-overs at friends and family, due mainly to overall inventory and also disposal.

[Little Sherri]

Have you read anything by @oznl? He's been 24/7 for a bit over 4 years now, and he does a great job of documenting his ascent (or descent...) into unpredictable bedwetting. I'm on the same path he's on, a few months behind him in duration, and I can honestly say now that, yes, I "should" or "need" to wear diapers to bed. I'd been waking up and allowing wettings to commence before drifting off to sleep again for a couple of years at least before I started having "suspected" involuntary events, but I doubted their legitimacy at the time, thinking that I must have allowed it happen, and then simply forgotten about it in the fog of slumber. It took until year 3 for me to start believing that, yup, sometimes I fall asleep like a stone and have no recollection of having awakened, but, my diaper speaks to nocturnal happenings. I'm still very unreliable in this department, sometimes either waking up dry or having recalled events where I awakened because of a need to pee, let it happen, and fell asleep again, for two or three weeks, but then I'll sometimes have one or two of those nights where I'm wet and have zero recall of how that might have happened, in a given week. Often after drinking. 

Funny enough, this almost seem to happen more often when I don't want it to, such as when I'm sleeping over at a friend's place or sharing a hotel room with someone. 

The question becomes, having "trained" myself that it's okay to pee when I'm not conscious of it, how would I get that functionality back, given that I'm unconscious when it's happening? Not that I want to, but, I feel it is my duty to serve as a road sign for an upcoming curve, to those who are taking this strange highway.  

[DL2000]

3 hours ago, CodHero24 said:

In my case, after training to be a bedwetter,

it became immediately permanent because I have absolutely no desire to go back to being dry at night.

I love waking up soggy, every single morning.

Wearing a diaper every night allows me to drink plenty of fluids before bed, with total uninterrupted deep sleep,

vivid dreams, and I wake up feeling refreshed every morning.

The biggest challenge is sleep-overs at friends and family, due mainly to overall inventory and also disposal.

Does that mean you have not tried what happens if you sleep without a diaper?

[Little Belle]

8 hours ago, DL2000 said:

So I'm a DL and thinking about to become a bedwetter for multiple years now, I thought about the pros and cons and figured that there are more pros for me personally. I read through various posts in this forum about this topic but in this thread however, I would specifically like to talk about the timeframe when it's basically impossible to stop bedwetting if you become a bedwetter as an adult in case I change my mind and wanna go back to being dry at night.

I experimented a bit in the past and found a good amount of water I can drink before sleeping that ensures I'll wake up in the night so I can start peeing and go back to sleep. I'm certain that doing this over and over eventually leads to the body thinking that it's okay to let go, especially because of the inconvenience of waking up and interrupting the sleep. I would think that re-learning to be dry at night as an adult is harder than being a kid. 

Now the question is... when do you think it's basically permanent to be a bedwetter when starting in adulthood? After the first wet, unrememberable night? After 10, 100? After a few months of this happening?

I would love to hear theories, but also real experiences - I'm sure here are some people that became bedwetters by wearing and using diapers at night.

I would ask @Kif to help you on this one; if I recall correctly, they've had a start then stop and then start again journey with bedwetting so may have a real insight into this. 

[rusty pins]

I'm so glad you thought everything over and came to the conclusion there are more pro's for you being a bedwetter than cons.  So many people jump right in without thinking it through really well and I'm glad you made a decision you feel is best after considering everything.

[Kif]

33 minutes ago, Little Belle said:

I would ask @Kif to help you on this one; if I recall correctly, they've had a start then stop and then start again journey with bedwetting so may have a real insight into this. 

Was literally just talking about this with friends on VC about this XD

So.

The ultimate answer is I don't know.

The first time, in 2017, I went 2 months and was wetting 4-5 times per week. I managed to turn that around by going cold-turkey on diapers at night.

Last year, in 2021, I went 6 months wetting maybe 2-3 times per week maxing out at 3-4 times per week. I also turned that around, again with the cold feathered thing.

And now I'm a month in and already wetting anywhere from 2-4 times per week. 

It makes me think there is some subconscious psychological component to all of it. If I shock my system and remove diapers very suddenly, I've stopped wetting at night. So far. And judging by other folks here, I would guess that doesn't change for years. 

So...I dunno. You're prolly safe for anywhere from at least 6 months to several years? ?‍♀️ ?

[DL2000]

40 minutes ago, Kif said:

Was literally just talking about this with friends on VC about this XD

So.

The ultimate answer is I don't know.

The first time, in 2017, I went 2 months and was wetting 4-5 times per week. I managed to turn that around by going cold-turkey on diapers at night.

Last year, in 2021, I went 6 months wetting maybe 2-3 times per week maxing out at 3-4 times per week. I also turned that around, again with the cold feathered thing.

And now I'm a month in and already wetting anywhere from 2-4 times per week. 

It makes me think there is some subconscious psychological component to all of it. If I shock my system and remove diapers very suddenly, I've stopped wetting at night. So far. And judging by other folks here, I would guess that doesn't change for years. 

So...I dunno. You're prolly safe for anywhere from at least 6 months to several years? ?‍♀️ ?

That would be pretty nice!

[oznl]

7 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

Have you read anything by @oznl?

BOING!!  He appears ?

A bit over 4 years of “24/7” under my belt (so to speak) and I’ve become a fairly regular bedwetter.  It’s not every night and it’s not even always easy to tell which nights (I’m often wet anyway when I go to bed so then it descends into deciding by morning that I’m wetter than I can remember being responsible before).

It’s quite a few nights though.

Last night changed before bed into a cloth nappy and fell asleep dry.  I woke up at 4am and found myself quite wet.  I had a hazy recollection of stirring slightly because I was peeing.  It’s quite common for me to pee in my sleep but slightly wake myself with the sensation of it.  I rouse slightly to discover that I’m wetting myself.

The night before was also wet.  I dreamed my way through that pee.

Other nights I just wet with no recollection. 

Other nights I wake up every 2 hours and pee a bit.

The first wet night was after several months of 24/7.  It did no reoccur for some more months, and then it did.

Very gradually, it became more common until it was once or twice per week.

After two years, I got a couple of nights to myself and tried going to bed without a nappy on.

The first night was sleepless and dry.  The second night (fatigued from the bad first night) I went to bed and woke just before 3am, confused as to why everything around me was wet.

At three years, the frequency of bedwetting stepped up.  Still not every night but by now, common enough.

Last May I got another chance to go nappy-free.  I was woken around 2am by the sensation of my pyjama pants getting wet and sticking to me.

I know that I’m now not “safe” in bed without a nappy and I’ve no idea what I would need to do to reverse this.  Simply not wearing a nappy can result in wet bedding now instead of a dry and sleepless night as it used to be.  I've also lost insight into it a bit.  Unless I deliberately contrive things to go to bed dry, I generally don't know what happens anymore.

It’s all in the blog.  It was probably around the year 3 mark that I thought to myself "This is very real, I don't need nappies to wet the bed anymore and I've no idea how to back out of it".

I don't mind.

[Craig]

I’m one of those fortunate ones with a history of child bedwetting as I’ve shared elsewhere on this site. While parents worked to bring it to an end, their efforts were are best marginally successful.

To be honest about this — which I do nowhere but here — I hit a point in my early teens that I didn’t want to try to stop. Why mess up a good thing? Yes, it was and is a weird pleasure. There are lots of weird pleasures. So what? There were times I wised I had worked hard to try to get it under control, but fortunately I resisted those attempts.

I know, nobody gets why some of us like wetting ourselves while asleep. I don’t understand it. I know that it hurts no one, I get a rush from wetting my diapers while I’m in bed if I’m awake as well as going to bed dry and waking waking up wet — or even wetter. So, no foul. 

I’m sure my enthusiasm for being a bedwetter has helped keep it permanent. Could it be cured after so many years? Maybe improved with meds and stuff? But improvement is useless. If you can cut your frequency of wetting in your sleep down from five times a week to one, you still have to wear diapers to bed or be prepared to soak the sheets since you don’t know when that one time per week will happen.

A professional would probably say that I sound like someone who doesn’t want to stop wetting the bed. Right. I admit it. It’s just that I had a head start on this when I was young. As I said, let’s keep a good thing going!

For those who are trying to become bedwetters — an admirable goal — you’ll see all kinds of advice on this site. Just stay with the program. One suggestion I can make is to enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

 

[CodHero24]

22 hours ago, DL2000 said:

Does that mean you have not tried what happens if you sleep without a diaper?

I have slept without a diaper once in the last five years.

I was sleeping over at a friends house and decided it would be worth gambling that I could make it through the night without a diaper.

So I tortured myself by denying any fluids several hours before bed, used the bathroom just before bed, and woke up in the middle of the night a couple times with a horrible dry mouth and got up to use the bathroom.

The weird thing is next day I went un-diapered on a long car ride (with my friend and his wife to eat lunch at our favorite place.)

I used the bathroom just before we left however during the hour drive I was having a really hard time holding it (but I made it to the restroom when we got there.)

...On the way back though, I had an accident without even realizing it, because when I got out of the car there was a wet spot on my pants and on the car seat...

This happened again several months later on another long car ride, I got home and was wet without knowing I did it.

I had also been coming home from work everyday and my underwear was soaked, but I thought it might have just been sweat...

It was after these accidents I just decided to go into diapers 24/7 instead of just at night.

I think I have light stress incontinence and post mitigation dribble(I think they call it), as well as a small bladder capacity.

It becomes uncomfortable to hold it after a short time, and it's just easier to be diapered all the time, much more comfortable physically and mentally.

[zzyzx]

On 2/3/2023 at 2:59 AM, DL2000 said:

Now the question is... when do you think it's basically permanent to be a bedwetter when starting in adulthood? After the first wet, unrememberable night? After 10, 100? After a few months of this happening?

 

I would love to hear theories, but also real experiences - I'm sure here are some people that became bedwetters by wearing and using diapers at night.

@DL2000: I expect you will find most hear will state it takes a fair amount of time before it is permanent....  However,,,,

For me, it only took two weeks on medication to get over an illness, which resulted in wetting the bed every night for the two weeks,  I commented to the doctor after the first or second night and he wasn't concerned, expecting it to go away on its own.  (In hind site, should have been concerned...) After that two week period, I am no longer reliably dry at night.  Prior to the effects of BPH and how that has been managed, I was typically wetting about 1/3 to 2/3's of the time.  I had one three week dry spell and one about six week dry spell, but that's it, despite trying to get back to "normal".  I'm now at the point of only being able to get at best two of three items from: (1) Staying properly hydrated, (2) Getting a good nights sleep and (3) Being dry in the morning.... 

So, it varies.  Depends on how you were made....  Some folks are closer to the line than most folks.

[Craig]

It seems unpredictable. You would think liquid intake would affect the frequency of bedwetting, by which I mean wetting in your sleep. Most of the time I don’t wake up, although sometimes I do when it’s already happening. The strange thing is that sometimes when I’ve been sitting up drinking a lot of Coke Zero or iced tea, I wake up dry. Other times, I don’t consume liquids at all in the evening or very little, and I wake up soaked, even sometimes with leaks. I’ve read that urine output is a factor of liquid consumption over a few days, not just by guzzling a bunch of water before going to bed. That would explain why withholding liquids — besides being potentially unhealthy — often does not reduce urinary frequency, including at night. 

So, once the habit is developed, or if it comes naturally for whatever reason, you’re going to wet the bed regardless of fluid intake. Efforts to jam that frequency up or down in terms of time/amounts per night or number of nights per week by regulating fluid intake is only partially successful — either in increasing bedwetting frequency or decreasing it.

That’s not to say drinking a healthy amount of water before bed won’t increase bedwetting. It often will. But it’s not as predictable as maybe we’d want. In other words, if you’re trying to become an uncontrolled bedwetter, don’t expect smooth progress. And people often give up too soon I’m guessing.

If someone has some better information, I’d love to see it! 

[Craig]

I really wish I could come up with a fast and easy way to become a real bedwetter for those who want to get here. I doubt that exists. The unpredictability of the results of things like drinking more fluids shortly before bedtime is unfortunate.

But we do know the basics:

1 - You have to be diapered in such a way that leaks are of zero concern. Otherwise, you will wake up if you do get the urge to pee while in bed.

2 - You have to be diapered in such a way that if your diapers get wet while you’re still awake, you will still not be worried about leaks.

3 - Going to bed wet helps some people.

4 - It takes time to develop a new habit — and that varies from person to person.

5 - You need to stay with it. Develop a routine that encourages bedwetting.

6 - Look at sites that purport to offer advice on stopping bedwetting and consider doing the opposite.

7 - Did I say staying with it? Even though I had a natural head start, my bedwetting became even more frequent because I pursued some of the stuff above.

8 - Does going 24/7 help? I don’t know.

9 - Once you get started, don’t decide that “oh, this time it’s not convenient so I’ll get up just this once and head for the restroom.” That reinforces the idea that you still have control which is the opposite of what you’re trying to do.

10 - Watch your food and fluid intakes with an eye to what is likely to cause bedwetting.

11 - When you do wet yourself in bed, treat it likes it’s no big deal — just something that happens that’s out of your control.

It’s not hard to imagine others like @Enthusi have valuable tips to add to this. Info coming from those who started from scratch rather than someone like me who at least had an unfair advantage going into this could be a real encouragement.

Good luck!

[spark]

8 hours ago, Craig said:

8 - Does going 24/7 help? I don’t know.

I honestly don't know anymore

I've been 24/7 for a few years, but I still know when I pee.  However, i've gotten so used to wearing a wet diaper that I might think the wetness is just sweat if I  don't remember peeing.

I'll say this, I don't think I would trust myself without padding.  I probably wouldn't flood it, but i would leak.

[Enthusi]

On 2/5/2023 at 3:56 PM, Craig said:

It’s not hard to imagine others like @Enthusi have valuable tips to add to this. Info coming from those who started from scratch rather than someone like me who at least had an unfair advantage going into this could be a real encouragement.

{Magically appears out of thin air}. Why hello!

Bedwetting is one of those elusive things that either seems to come easily and early on, or it’s a struggle and takes forever.  You’d think it would be correlated to your level of daytime control. And while thats true to a degree, it’s not always the case.    Not only that, but even for bedwetters, some people like myself will soak through a Megamax with a booster overnight while  others can get away with little more than an ATN.   

In other words… don’t stress if you’re doing all the right things and making great progress (regress?) during the day and are bone dry at night. It may be that’s just the way it is for you.  Rest assured there are babies out there who are nowhere near being potty trained who wake up dry.  

The other thing I would add is that there seems to be a progression in the way bedwetting comes about.  At first you wake up and pee and go right back to sleep.  With time you start peeing as you’re waking up, and then right before you wake up and eventually after months you pee in a twilight phase where you’re half asleep. And eventually you sleep right through it.  So if you’re an aspiring bedwetter (that’s probably the first time in history those two words have ever been used together!) and you wake up with the urge to pee, simply  relax your bladder and roll over and go back to sleep, knowing you’re already on your way. 

[Hannah YMS]

On 2/6/2023 at 6:55 PM, Enthusi said:

{Magically appears out of thin air}. Why hello!

Bedwetting is one of those elusive things that either seems to come easily and early on, or it’s a struggle and takes forever.  You’d think it would be correlated to your level of daytime control. And while thats true to a degree, it’s not always the case.    Not only that, but even for bedwetters, some people like myself will soak through a Megamax with a booster overnight while  others can get away with little more than an ATN.   

In other words… don’t stress if you’re doing all the right things and making great progress (regress?) during the day and are bone dry at night. It may be that’s just the way it is for you.  Rest assured there are babies out there who are nowhere near being potty trained who wake up dry.  

The other thing I would add is that there seems to be a progression in the way bedwetting comes about.  At first you wake up and pee and go right back to sleep.  With time you start peeing as you’re waking up, and then right before you wake up and eventually after months you pee in a twilight phase where you’re half asleep. And eventually you sleep right through it.  So if you’re an aspiring bedwetter (that’s probably the first time in history those two words have ever been used together!) and you wake up with the urge to pee, simply  relax your bladder and roll over and go back to sleep, knowing you’re already on your way. 

I like this process. For me, being 100% confident I won't leak is key, which is why I'm taking the opportunity to make sure I don't leak at night. After that, I hope it's gravy.

[stevewet]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:51 AM, Craig said:

I’m one of those fortunate ones with a history of child bedwetting as I’ve shared elsewhere on this site. While parents worked to bring it to an end, their efforts were are best marginally successful.

To be honest about this — which I do nowhere but here — I hit a point in my early teens that I didn’t want to try to stop. Why mess up a good thing? Yes, it was and is a weird pleasure. There are lots of weird pleasures. So what? There were times I wised I had worked hard to try to get it under control, but fortunately I resisted those attempts.

I know, nobody gets why some of us like wetting ourselves while asleep. I don’t understand it. I know that it hurts no one, I get a rush from wetting my diapers while I’m in bed if I’m awake as well as going to bed dry and waking waking up wet — or even wetter. So, no foul. 

I’m sure my enthusiasm for being a bedwetter has helped keep it permanent. Could it be cured after so many years? Maybe improved with meds and stuff? But improvement is useless. If you can cut your frequency of wetting in your sleep down from five times a week to one, you still have to wear diapers to bed or be prepared to soak the sheets since you don’t know when that one time per week will happen.

A professional would probably say that I sound like someone who doesn’t want to stop wetting the bed. Right. I admit it. It’s just that I had a head start on this when I was young. As I said, let’s keep a good thing going!

For those who are trying to become bedwetters — an admirable goal — you’ll see all kinds of advice on this site. Just stay with the program. One suggestion I can make is to enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

 

I was a chronic nightly bed wetter growing up. My bedwetting never bothered me. I couldn't see what all the fuss was about and by my teens I too realised I didn't want to be dry at night. I have no idea why but for me I am genuinely happier being a bedwetter. Slipping back in to the habit was so easy for me and now I am very rarely dry at night.

On 2/5/2023 at 8:56 PM, Craig said:

I really wish I could come up with a fast and easy way to become a real bedwetter for those who want to get here. I doubt that exists. The unpredictability of the results of things like drinking more fluids shortly before bedtime is unfortunate.

But we do know the basics:

1 - You have to be diapered in such a way that leaks are of zero concern. Otherwise, you will wake up if you do get the urge to pee while in bed.

2 - You have to be diapered in such a way that if your diapers get wet while you’re still awake, you will still not be worried about leaks.

3 - Going to bed wet helps some people.

4 - It takes time to develop a new habit — and that varies from person to person.

5 - You need to stay with it. Develop a routine that encourages bedwetting.

6 - Look at sites that purport to offer advice on stopping bedwetting and consider doing the opposite.

7 - Did I say staying with it? Even though I had a natural head start, my bedwetting became even more frequent because I pursued some of the stuff above.

8 - Does going 24/7 help? I don’t know.

9 - Once you get started, don’t decide that “oh, this time it’s not convenient so I’ll get up just this once and head for the restroom.” That reinforces the idea that you still have control which is the opposite of what you’re trying to do.

10 - Watch your food and fluid intakes with an eye to what is likely to cause bedwetting.

11 - When you do wet yourself in bed, treat it likes it’s no big deal — just something that happens that’s out of your control.

It’s not hard to imagine others like @Enthusi have valuable tips to add to this. Info coming from those who started from scratch rather than someone like me who at least had an unfair advantage going into this could be a real encouragement.

Good luck!

Some great points there. The main one being no.9

[babykeiff]

@DL2000

Bed wetting or secondary nocturnal enuresis is a multiple step process...

1. Waking with a full bladder that needs to be emptied and wetting.
2. Not waking and wetting while asleep.
3. Reduction of vasopressin production
4. Reduction of bladder capacity

Step #1, is not what most aspiring bed wetters want, but it is usually the first step. As a result, at this stage, it is reversable, but as soon as you reach step #2, the rest is inevitable. If you try and reverse at this stage following the same steps in training that you went through as a child - been woken up by another and being brought to a bathroom etc., it is reversable. However, as soon as you reach step #3, there is no way back without intensive training.

Vasopressin is required for the kidneys to reduce the water being placed in the bladder. A full bladder will either trigger you to wake, or if you have got used to voiding without waking, you will void while asleep. When vasopressing production is reduced, your adult sized bladder does not have the capacity to last you overnight, which if you trained yourself to wet while asleep, you will not get the signal to wake and will wet. Since you will be wetting at any slight urge overnight, it is normal for the bladder capacity to reduce (since the bladder is not being stretched to full capacity). This will have a corresponding result in daytime voiding frequency and quantity i.e. you will void more often in smaller and smaller quantities. If you are wearing diapers daytime, it will become a habit to such an extent that you will not even notice your diaper getting wetter until you move / sit down and notice the squishyness of the diaper.

In relation to times, it all depends on your internal desires. Going from step 2 to step 4 will happen within 1 - 3 weeks. Getting to step 2 is all about self belief, and as soon as one accepts that this is what they really want AND accept all the impacts that they need to wear diapers every night OR they will wake up in a wet and/or messy bed, this happens very fast from 1-2 days to 1-2 weeks. You are just reverting to behaviour that you did as a baby.

[Craig]

2 hours ago, babykeiff said:

@DL2000

Vasopressin is required for the kidneys to reduce the water being placed in the bladder. A full bladder will either trigger you to wake, or if you have got used to voiding without waking, you will void while asleep. When vasopressing production is reduced, your adult sized bladder does not have the capacity to last you overnight, which if you trained yourself to wet while asleep, you will not get the signal to wake and will wet. Since you will be wetting at any slight urge overnight, it is normal for the bladder capacity to reduce (since the bladder is not being stretched to full capacity). This will have a corresponding result in daytime voiding frequency and quantity i.e. you will void more often in smaller and smaller quantities. If you are wearing diapers daytime, it will become a habit to such an extent that you will not even notice your diaper getting wetter until you move / sit down and notice the squishyness of the diaper.

.

What a well-written piece!

Now, to pursue the quote above further:

I think we agree that vasopressin secretion normally goes up while we are asleep as our body’s way of reducing urine production and thus the need to interrupt sleep to pee. In people where this doesn’t happen for whatever reason, and I could be one, the kidneys continue to produce urine just like while awake with a resulting increased number of trips to the bathroom or bedwetting incidents. Of course we’re not drinking anything while asleep, but I’ve read that urine production at night is also dependent in part on fluid consumption throughout the day. And possibly what we eat.

Are you suggesting that the normal sleeptime reduction in urine production is one natural body function/system/behavior that can be “defeated” to borrow a term @Enthusi uses for actions to help promote incontinence? Other than drinking extra water, I don’t know what that would be. It would have to be safe. 

I’ve experimented many times with drinking extra water at bedtime, and I typically can tell my diaper in the morning is wetter as a result. By the way, I’m still a cloth/vinyl pants wearer at night.

Recall that I never stopped wetting the bed completely, so I was used to wearing a diaper to bed and not thinking about it much figuring that was just the way I was, then started loving wearing “bedwetter pants” and the bulkiness to bed around fifth grade I think, and started drinking extra water after brushing my teeth before going to bed so as to hide from my parents what I was doing. As I grew into my teens, I really started to love wearing thick diapers to bed and waking up wet even more. I doubt I would have stopped wetting in my sleep anyway since there were times I didn’t drink anything before bed and still woke up wet.

So, that’s the other question — since my doctor I had as a kid sort of blew it off other than some tests if I recall and diet changes, what causes me to wet the bed, something hard-wired differently? I admit my love of it and how I reinforced my “natural” bedwetting as described would have burned the habit in permanently, I guess. Doctors I’ve seen since becoming an adult know nothing about my bedwetting.

I didn’t intend to write that much. It’s just intensely interesting. And if I can share something that helps someone achieve a bedwetting goal, that’s great!

 

[babykeiff]

10 hours ago, Craig said:

What a well-written piece!

Now, to pursue the quote above further:

I think we agree that vasopressin secretion normally goes up while we are asleep as our body’s way of reducing urine production and thus the need to interrupt sleep to pee. In people where this doesn’t happen for whatever reason, and I could be one, the kidneys continue to produce urine just like while awake with a resulting increased number of trips to the bathroom or bedwetting incidents. Of course we’re not drinking anything while asleep, but I’ve read that urine production at night is also dependent in part on fluid consumption throughout the day. And possibly what we eat.

Are you suggesting that the normal sleeptime reduction in urine production is one natural body function/system/behavior that can be “defeated” to borrow a term @Enthusi uses for actions to help promote incontinence? Other than drinking extra water, I don’t know what that would be. It would have to be safe. 

I’ve experimented many times with drinking extra water at bedtime, and I typically can tell my diaper in the morning is wetter as a result. By the way, I’m still a cloth/vinyl pants wearer at night.

Recall that I never stopped wetting the bed completely, so I was used to wearing a diaper to bed and not thinking about it much figuring that was just the way I was, then started loving wearing “bedwetter pants” and the bulkiness to bed around fifth grade I think, and started drinking extra water after brushing my teeth before going to bed so as to hide from my parents what I was doing. As I grew into my teens, I really started to love wearing thick diapers to bed and waking up wet even more. I doubt I would have stopped wetting in my sleep anyway since there were times I didn’t drink anything before bed and still woke up wet.

So, that’s the other question — since my doctor I had as a kid sort of blew it off other than some tests if I recall and diet changes, what causes me to wet the bed, something hard-wired differently? I admit my love of it and how I reinforced my “natural” bedwetting as described would have burned the habit in permanently, I guess. Doctors I’ve seen since becoming an adult know nothing about my bedwetting.

I didn’t intend to write that much. It’s just intensely interesting. And if I can share something that helps someone achieve a bedwetting goal, that’s great!

 

@Craig thank you for the praise.

Cell osmosis moves water and salts into the blood which is filtered by the kidneys on a 24 hour basis. As a result, without any interaction, urine enters the bladder on a constant basis. A baby, like a toilet trained individual, when its bladder fills, will get the signal given to its brain that the bladder needs to empty. A toilet trained individual will intervene with this signal which allows the bladder to start to stretch. A baby, however, has been taught, to ignore this signal and will empty its un-stretched bladder. As a result, a baby does not get to the stage that it is producing vasopressin to reduce the water content in the urine being placed into its bladder until it is toilet trained. Producing vasopressin is expensive to the body, and since the body is expert at energy conservation, will, if the situation is created, stop its own production once the mind decides that there is no gain to its production.

Since a baby is trained, by praise after the event, and ignoring before the event, a baby learns to ignore all signals from its bladder so does not intervene in the signals that inform it of the full bladder. Thus the bladder does not stretch and a baby will void almost by reflex.

You are talking about night time wetting while asleep as a way to repeat the voiding habits of a baby. It is a habit that the baby has been taught, but it is under control of the subcontious mind. To relearn this habit, one needs to repeat the same behaviour one had as a baby. When you were being toilet trained, oen of the first things that was done was that you were put into underwear / training pants instead of diapers. As a result, when you wet/messed, you instantly got feedback of the event and you leaked. This was very uncomfortable, and one of the key reasons that you drove yourself is to avoid the uncomfortableness of a wet/messy leaking diaper. This started triggering the intervention of 'holding it' until you got to a potty. This caused your bladder to stretch, which also increased its capacity.

To regress to the baby method of voiding, one has to recreate the environment of that age -

• plastic undersheet on your bed - to recreate the sounds
• baby powder on the plastic sheet - to recreate the smells
• thick cloth diapers - so even when you soak them, your comfort level will not be changed
• drinking a bottle / sucking a pacifier as you sleep - to trigger your mind that you are drinking on a constant basis
• repeat the phrases
  • 'I am a good baby, and as a good baby I wet and mess my diapers'
  • When you feel the need to wet/mess 'it is good and right to wet/fill my diapers'
  • As you are wetting/messing - 'I am a good baby, and this feels good'
  • After you wet/mess - 'My diaper is warm and wet/messy and squishy and nice'
• Do not worry if your diaper leaks, you are well protected (plastic sheet etc.)- and even if it does leak, there is always another warm comfortable diaper to make squishy all over again.

The idea is to remove the reasons not to use the diapers - i.e. the feeling of discomfort of a wet/messy training pants / underwear and replace it with the wrapped in comfort feelings of a baby - where you repeat the teachings of babyhood to use your diapers.

As a result, since the key reasons you were toilet trained / intervened in the bladder filling signals no longer exist - and you are being praised for using your diapers, the bladder will revert to emptying as soon as it fills rather that allowing it to stretch. Since it is no longer stretching, the bladder capacity decreases and you will void more frequently in lower quantities. When asleep, the vasopressin production will not be enough to reduce the bladder quantity overnight, and you will wet with/without waking / partially waking. Since the vasopressin production is now not needed, the subcontious mind will stop its production. As a result, you will wet the same quantities every 15-30 min. as you do daytime. 

This, contary to what others have stated, is not defeating anything in the bodies process, but reverting to the behaviour that you had as a baby. Most people who have tried to break a habit i.e. smoking become an ex-smoker where it is very easy for that ex-smoker to become a smoker once again. You are an ex-baby who voided at the whims of your body. As a result, it is very easy, once the correct scenario is created, to become a baby voiding at the whims of your body again. All you need to do is recreate the scenario to fullfill that. However, due to the process of athrophy of muscles etc, once the bladder capacity is reduced, it is nearly impossible to regain the bladder capacity of an adult. As a result, even with intensive toilet training, you will need to wear diapers or some form of protection 24/7 as you will have accidents every so often AND overnight, will never have the ability to last the 6-8 hours overnight without needing to wake and void.

As one gets older, the elasticicy of ones bladder reduces, which is the reason the older generation needs to wake numerous times overnight to empty the bladder OR wear some form of overnight protection. Similar occurs daytime for the same generation. This has been put to the test when people are placed in nursing / care homes. To avoid the risk of the person / resident of slipping on the tiled floors, nurses / care assistants are supposed to assist them to the bathroom. This very quickly, due to reduced bladder capacity, gets repetitive very quickly and any delay results in the resident having an accident than needs to be cleaned up. As a result, very shortly, the paitent is back in diapers and placed in a bed 24/7. The mind reverts, in a way to rationalize the treatment, to infantile behaviour which means that within a short time, a normally continent fully functioning person regresses to a dependant adult sized baby using diapers and usually needed to be spoon fed.

[Craig]

Wow. What an informative post. Anyone interested in joining the bedwetter team like some of us, or to go 24/7 like others, ought to give your comments a careful read and think.

Thanks for writing that. I hope it helps some people.

[stevewet]

16 hours ago, babykeiff said:

@Craig thank you for the praise.

Cell osmosis moves water and salts into the blood which is filtered by the kidneys on a 24 hour basis. As a result, without any interaction, urine enters the bladder on a constant basis. A baby, like a toilet trained individual, when its bladder fills, will get the signal given to its brain that the bladder needs to empty. A toilet trained individual will intervene with this signal which allows the bladder to start to stretch. A baby, however, has been taught, to ignore this signal and will empty its un-stretched bladder. As a result, a baby does not get to the stage that it is producing vasopressin to reduce the water content in the urine being placed into its bladder until it is toilet trained. Producing vasopressin is expensive to the body, and since the body is expert at energy conservation, will, if the situation is created, stop its own production once the mind decides that there is no gain to its production.

Since a baby is trained, by praise after the event, and ignoring before the event, a baby learns to ignore all signals from its bladder so does not intervene in the signals that inform it of the full bladder. Thus the bladder does not stretch and a baby will void almost by reflex.

You are talking about night time wetting while asleep as a way to repeat the voiding habits of a baby. It is a habit that the baby has been taught, but it is under control of the subcontious mind. To relearn this habit, one needs to repeat the same behaviour one had as a baby. When you were being toilet trained, oen of the first things that was done was that you were put into underwear / training pants instead of diapers. As a result, when you wet/messed, you instantly got feedback of the event and you leaked. This was very uncomfortable, and one of the key reasons that you drove yourself is to avoid the uncomfortableness of a wet/messy leaking diaper. This started triggering the intervention of 'holding it' until you got to a potty. This caused your bladder to stretch, which also increased its capacity.

To regress to the baby method of voiding, one has to recreate the environment of that age -

• plastic undersheet on your bed - to recreate the sounds
• baby powder on the plastic sheet - to recreate the smells
• thick cloth diapers - so even when you soak them, your comfort level will not be changed
• drinking a bottle / sucking a pacifier as you sleep - to trigger your mind that you are drinking on a constant basis
• repeat the phrases
  • 'I am a good baby, and as a good baby I wet and mess my diapers'
  • When you feel the need to wet/mess 'it is good and right to wet/fill my diapers'
  • As you are wetting/messing - 'I am a good baby, and this feels good'
  • After you wet/mess - 'My diaper is warm and wet/messy and squishy and nice'
• Do not worry if your diaper leaks, you are well protected (plastic sheet etc.)- and even if it does leak, there is always another warm comfortable diaper to make squishy all over again.

The idea is to remove the reasons not to use the diapers - i.e. the feeling of discomfort of a wet/messy training pants / underwear and replace it with the wrapped in comfort feelings of a baby - where you repeat the teachings of babyhood to use your diapers.

As a result, since the key reasons you were toilet trained / intervened in the bladder filling signals no longer exist - and you are being praised for using your diapers, the bladder will revert to emptying as soon as it fills rather that allowing it to stretch. Since it is no longer stretching, the bladder capacity decreases and you will void more frequently in lower quantities. When asleep, the vasopressin production will not be enough to reduce the bladder quantity overnight, and you will wet with/without waking / partially waking. Since the vasopressin production is now not needed, the subcontious mind will stop its production. As a result, you will wet the same quantities every 15-30 min. as you do daytime. 

This, contary to what others have stated, is not defeating anything in the bodies process, but reverting to the behaviour that you had as a baby. Most people who have tried to break a habit i.e. smoking become an ex-smoker where it is very easy for that ex-smoker to become a smoker once again. You are an ex-baby who voided at the whims of your body. As a result, it is very easy, once the correct scenario is created, to become a baby voiding at the whims of your body again. All you need to do is recreate the scenario to fullfill that. However, due to the process of athrophy of muscles etc, once the bladder capacity is reduced, it is nearly impossible to regain the bladder capacity of an adult. As a result, even with intensive toilet training, you will need to wear diapers or some form of protection 24/7 as you will have accidents every so often AND overnight, will never have the ability to last the 6-8 hours overnight without needing to wake and void.

As one gets older, the elasticicy of ones bladder reduces, which is the reason the older generation needs to wake numerous times overnight to empty the bladder OR wear some form of overnight protection. Similar occurs daytime for the same generation. This has been put to the test when people are placed in nursing / care homes. To avoid the risk of the person / resident of slipping on the tiled floors, nurses / care assistants are supposed to assist them to the bathroom. This very quickly, due to reduced bladder capacity, gets repetitive very quickly and any delay results in the resident having an accident than needs to be cleaned up. As a result, very shortly, the paitent is back in diapers and placed in a bed 24/7. The mind reverts, in a way to rationalize the treatment, to infantile behaviour which means that within a short time, a normally continent fully functioning person regresses to a dependant adult sized baby using diapers and usually needed to be spoon fed.

Great write up. Couldn't have put it better my self.

[stevewet]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:51 AM, Craig said:

I’m one of those fortunate ones with a history of child bedwetting as I’ve shared elsewhere on this site. While parents worked to bring it to an end, their efforts were are best marginally successful.

To be honest about this — which I do nowhere but here — I hit a point in my early teens that I didn’t want to try to stop. Why mess up a good thing? Yes, it was and is a weird pleasure. There are lots of weird pleasures. So what? There were times I wised I had worked hard to try to get it under control, but fortunately I resisted those attempts.

I know, nobody gets why some of us like wetting ourselves while asleep. I don’t understand it. I know that it hurts no one, I get a rush from wetting my diapers while I’m in bed if I’m awake as well as going to bed dry and waking waking up wet — or even wetter. So, no foul. 

I’m sure my enthusiasm for being a bedwetter has helped keep it permanent. Could it be cured after so many years? Maybe improved with meds and stuff? But improvement is useless. If you can cut your frequency of wetting in your sleep down from five times a week to one, you still have to wear diapers to bed or be prepared to soak the sheets since you don’t know when that one time per week will happen.

A professional would probably say that I sound like someone who doesn’t want to stop wetting the bed. Right. I admit it. It’s just that I had a head start on this when I was young. As I said, let’s keep a good thing going!

For those who are trying to become bedwetters — an admirable goal — you’ll see all kinds of advice on this site. Just stay with the program. One suggestion I can make is to enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

 

I know if I had made a conscious effort to become dry at night in my early teens I probably could have beaten my bedwetting. The plain and simple truth was I had no incentiveto stop wetting in my sleep. I liked being a bedwetter. When I did start waking in the night needing to pee. I just wet my bed and went straight back to sleep. I was so used to being wet at night, why bother getting up. My bed was always wet by morning in any case so no one was ever going to know I had started deliberately weeing the bed. 

After a few nights I was wetting in my sleep again, although some mornings I would wake up dry. If I did wake up dry I just let it flow as soon as I woke. The last thing I wanted was my folks finding out I was gaining some control over my bedwetting as they would have been on my case all the time to get me dry at night. 

ALL through my teens I maintained my bedwetting by wetting deliberately if I woke in the night until I was back to sleep wetting.

[keyman419]

Great post. This has answered a lot of questions and reinforces that the brain has so much control over our 'control'. I've noticed the same things that my brain holds back progress towards IC.