Enthusi

Hi all, I wasn’t sure the right forum for this as it applies to “all of the above” so I apologize if this isn’t the right place. Due to a combination of intentional and unintentional factors I’ve been losing some weight. I tend to be on the cusp between medium and large, and traditionally I size up. But with the recent slimming down I feel like larges are just a tad too large now. This is weird. The diaper looks and feels so much more snug. I’m not used to feeling the tapes (with larges the tapes are over the front panel). So it’s simultaneously thinner and thicker feeling. The real test will be seeing how it holds up.

</Thread> I have to say in the excessive time I spent ruminating on this perceived rejection* I never considered this perspective. You’re right, I never went through the grief cycle, like so many others there did when they received the diagnosis of incontinence. My experience was more of a relief cycle. *This get’s to @oznl’s Uno Reverse question asking me why I get so offended when accused of faking it. The answer is quite simple: I wish I knew myself! It’s on my growing list of things to work through in therapy! 😂😬

Thats the other thing that bugs me about how much hate I received for not suffering with incontinence. many of us here are freaking EXPERTS in the urinary tract system, and have an encyclopedic knowledge of incontinence, management, and treatment, and we are creative problem solvers who deal with a different type of stigma, and because we live it 24/7. Like @Little Sherri said, their loss.

To be fair there are a lot of decent open minded folks on that website, just as there are some closed-minded folks here. But yeah, if some of the people on that forum only knew what you and I know… I never thought of it that way before. 😍 I think I took the positive affirming atmosphere here for granted when I branched out.

Oh I forgot to mention above, yeah I have rip roaring adhd and more than my share of anxiety. And wouldn’t you know it, the brain and body are connected. Funny thing is that I did mention adhd in my post on that forum and someone also dismissed that as a bogus excuse. For others like me and you, we know it’s not.

I’m not saying it’s good or bad. I’m just curious. Is it a Sample bias? Bad experience with ABDLs? A desire to maintain a gated community? An assumption that incontinence must cause suffering for it to count? Or am I off the mark on this one? I recently posted on an incontinence forum on a different website about how in I assumed my bladder control was normal to begin with. I got the idea after reading a different thread where someone said they were never good at sensing their bladder filling. I never knew that was a thing. But my whole life I’ve had a weird relationship with my bladder. I clearly remember being terrified of accidents and was always running to the bathroom and I would drain a full bladder. It’s like I was in constant reactive mode. That’s would explain why it felt burdensome to maintain control. Because it was assumed my bladder control was normal and I do have abdl tendencies, I never considered that other people get a more warning than I do that the have to go. And oh my goodness. Some people were supportive. But there were a vocal few who made it clear that it it’s impossible to become incontinent from untraining (it absolutely is. See: Functional incontinence and spiraling). They accused me of rewriting my narrative to say I was incontinent the whole time (I never said that. I said maintaining continence was perhaps more difficult for me than I gave myself credit for). They implied I was undeserving of sympathy (I never asked for sympathy). One person told me this belongs in fiction (it doesn’t), several people told me this doesn’t belong here. The crazy thing is that if you go to any urologist or primary care doctor and say that you suspect there might be some sensory issues that would explain why bladder control is difficult for you, they’d take it at face value. I know this because I’ve literally said to my urologist who I see for urinary incontinence. He nodded and agreed and went on to discuss various treatment options and other topics. I’ve disclosed my bladder control issues to several trusted friends and family, and trust me never once has anyone even thought of calling me out. I didn’t mention the ABDL stuff, but even if I did, I strongly suspect they still wouldn’t question. To be fair incontinence doesn’t come up in discussion that much. Turns out most people don’t really care that much how good or bad you are at controlling your pee, and how it came to be that way. Let me be clear: I get that people suffer from incontinence and they need a community space free of fetishists using them for masturbation material. I fully support gatekeeping in that situation because it is inappropriate. Help me understand it. I’m sure the people on that incontinence support forum had their reasons to demonize me for what I thought was a message in support of other incontinent folks like me. Either way I’m thankful for this lovely group. ❤️ Also… I’m curious others thoughts on if there is a *possible* sensory predisposition that would explain why some of us ABDLs prefer to be incontinent. But that’s a different convo different day.

This is great! I do this too but with an imaginary catheter being inserted.

That would make perfect sense. I wonder how much this stupid little reflex contributes to our collective dysphoria?

I’m digging the BeDry series from Incontrol. Competitive pricing, free shipping, subscribe and save, comfy.

Whenever I have victories I would give my self a nice little massage (…) and an affirming reminder that i was a good boy.

What do you do to reward yourself when you have a victory?

Same thing happens to me, and it’s been years. I wonder if it’s just a reflex because the contractions do literally nothing to stop me from leaking.

Wow! @Ineedboth1994! Honestly you’re the first person I met who sought fecal incontinence prior to urinary incontinence. But I totally vibe with it just feeling right

Can I ask you a question out of genuine curiosity: I take it you have dual incontinence? Was any of that by choice? You don’t have to answer if you don’t feel comfortable.

I can’t begin to tell you how important having that challenge mindset is. And in fact when I crafted my post I debated introducing a second talking about how I love that I am annoyed by the constant small inconveniences of being incontinent. I get the feeling you, and many others get it.

Yep! It’s the mild inconveniences that add up. The longer the duration of the trip the more extensive planning you need to do ahead of time. And you are also right that being diaper dependent 24/7 adds even more hassles. I encourage most people who are interested in 24/7 to try it out, but for me it wasn’t feasible until I was in my 30’s for a number of reasons. That said, you find ways to manage, and it really does get easier with time. Until I saw your reply here, I thought I was the only one who has an intense fear of leaking. It’s so silly because it’s I am a bedwetter and it’s never a big of a deal when I actually leak at night. But the anxiety about waking up to soaked sheets kicks my ass. Feel free to DM me if you’re interested having a support buddy who gets it.

Omg @Little Sherri, I feel like you’re in my brain. I resonate with everything you mentioned. ❤️❤️❤️ Re: Family members, the impact of my lifestyle on my partner weighs on me a lot. For starters there are the intimacy issues. Physical romance needs to be planned around the possibility that my bladder can suddenly empty itself with little to no warning. At best it ruins the spontenaity. At worst it can be horrifically gross and embarrassing. Also when we are together and I have a leak or am about to, it’s now their problem as well. And, similar to you, @Little Sherri, my partner puts up with the lifestyle only because they support me, but it’s not what they want for me. The only advice I can offer is that it takes a lot of bravery to have a frank open discussion with your partner about how your lifestyle impacts them. But doing so is important for both of your long term happiness.

Does anyone else get the sense that it’s hard to convey nuanced views on here? For example, venting about the hassles of being incontinent, without it being misinterpreted as a statement of regret, or a warning? To be fair, I don’t think there’s anything particularly alarming with this fine community, but rather it’s due to limitations of social media My goal for this thread is to create a safe space where it’s okay to share things that bother, worry, or vex you, even if you are otherwise happy with your lifestyle decision. Also feel free to reply if you’re bothered by the same thing, or pro tips. Also, let’s all acknowledge that this isn’t medical advice, and to see a medical specialist if there are concerns about your health. I will go first: Even though I made the right decision to untrain myself, there are times when life would be so much easier, such as traveling, if I didn’t have to worry about having spare diapers on hand at all times.

We in the ABDL community tend to put incontinence on a pedestal like it’s some sort of title that is bestowed on a select few people. Yeah I agree that it’s not a good look to fetishize a medical condition that is highly stigmatizing to people who don’t enjoy it. But, for many of us, it’s not just a fetish. I genuinely believe my potty training was a mistake. I encourage people interested in 24/7 lifestyle or even untraining to try it. The vast majority of people will get exhausted by the lifestyle after a few weeks when the novelty wears off and it starts feeling restrictive. That totally fine. They tried something new and learned something about themselves and their limits. Then there are the others who gain confidence and have even less desire to go back. Thats fine too. The point is, either way it doesn’t matter what I, or anyone say. So yeah, incontinence is a symptom and not a diagnosis. It sucks for most people, though some of us feel more complete by being diaper dependent. It’s all good.

Even though intellectually I know that a psychological need for diapers is just as legitimate as a physical need, it’s always bugged me that I untrained myself because I wanted to need diapers. It wasn’t until very recently that it finally clicked that continence shouldn’t feel burdensome. That fact that staying dry has always felt like work, and ive always felt more comfortable in diapers, means that I wasn’t ready to potty train when I was a young child, and I’m still not ready now. My guess is it’s the exact same with a lot of us here.

Anyone else who’s been at this for while, find that after so many years, you kind of lose touch with the continence mentality? What would it be like in public wearing nothing but flimsy underwear under your clothes, and be so confident that you won’t pee yourself? Or what would it be like to not see staying dry as a difficult gruesome ordeal? Apparently many guys prefer to sleep naked, with nothing but bed sheets under them, seemingly oblivious to the concern of soaking their mattress. My guess is that for those of us who used to have better control, it’s an eye opener when you’re confronted with how far you’ve come. Any stories of times when you found yourself surprised at how far you’ve strayed from “normal” continence?

I’ve never formally tested my total capacity, but one time I weighed a diaper pre- and post-wetting and converting to volume, it was around 150cc. Interestingly, most adults first sense they have to pee around 150 cc and indeed that matches with my personal experience. As soon as I feel the urge to go, it’s too late.

I think you might have misunderstood what I was getting at, though the fact that it wasn’t clear makes me wonder about going a different direction. If you were confused, how many other people would be? To be clear my approach is loosely based on the principle that thoughts, feels, and actions are all interrelated, and to untrain you have to hit all 3 areas simultaneously. How you think, feel, and behave to align with the goal of untraining. It was never, ever, ever meant to imply therapy. And at no point was I ever planning to contact psychologists. That would be horribly inappropriate. I just meant that it would be nice to have someone help me write it who gets the theoretical basis for my guide because it’s a hell of a lot of work to write alone.

Hi all. About a year ago, maybe even longer, I announced on this forum that I was working on writing up the technique I developed to untrain myself based on psychological principles, which I named Targeted Untraining. I had some great volunteers to help me review and edit and even so I never really finished writing it. Part of it was life, but a bigger part was that it wasn’t coming together. I am disappointed with myself for not having it done by now. But every time I started thinking about it I got writer’s block. Then the other day it clicked that the whole conceptualization was wrong. The technique is based on principles of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, namely the cognitive triad, so let’s start there! Unfortunately this entails a total re-write but I think it will go much better with this reframe. The gist of the cognitive triad is that there are three areas to consider: Cognition (Thoughts) <-> Feelings <-> Behaviors (actions). All 3 areas influence each other, and in order to feel better you have to address all 3 areas simultaneously. Though in our case, feeling better means being diaper dependent. 😎 Important disclaimer: Cognitive, Behavioral Therapy is much more complicated than this, and mental health professionals dedicate their life’s work to mastering CBT. This is NOT therapy in any way shape or form. I am merely using concepts borrowed from that branch of clinical psychology. My new outline will be as follows: Introduction: Disclaimers. Welcome message. Introduce the cognitive triad as a basis for Targeted Untraining. Emphasize the level of commitment needed to pull this off including the physical, emotional, social, financial costs of being diaper dependent. How to proceed if you desire incontinence but aren’t ready to fully commit. Applying concepts to bowel incontinence if that’s your thing. Acknowledgments.* Section 1 (Cognitive): Understanding how bladder control works so we can undo, with our goal to reset your urinary system back the factory default, aka the micturition reflex. Also about mental techniques like guided imagery and hypnosis to remove any barriers that prevent you from identifying as someone who lives with incontinence, and more. Section 2 (Feelings): Developing a challenge mindset where you see the problems of being incontinent like costs, travel, diaper rash, not as deterrents, but challenges to over come. Let the confidence you gain propel you forward. Rewarding yourself for milestones, inspiration when you feel frustrated for not progressing (regressing?) as fast as you’d like. Section 3 (Behaviors): Techniques to nudge your body into a spiral where you start relying on your diapers to keep you dry, which worsens your incontinence further. This includes things like timed relaxation exercise, getting comfortable talking to healthcare providers, perhaps even family about your lifestyle, never holding it in even when you’re not diapered. Section 4 (Putting it all together): How to design systems using the above techniques to ensure your success. Special topics like sleep wetting, wetting while sitting, traveling, ways to save money. Etc. * Originally I had hoped to name some people by screen name but at this point so many people have helped It’s impossible to keep track of who helped with what. So instead I plan to thank the community and shout out to Daily Diapers. I am looking for 1-3 people who have some experience or exposure with the psychology of cognitive behavioral therapy to help divvy up sections to brainstorm and maybe even write a rough draft. I would strongly prefer people who are open to using Telegram to communicate. That way we can have real time private group discussions via text. Message me here if interested and if you have a telegram name or need to make a new account. Once that’s done it will need to be edited and ideally made into a pdf with internal hyperlinks to jump to spots. In a perfect world we can make it in wiki format but one step at a time. And step one is to get everything on paper. Many many many thanks in advance. Enthusi! 🚀

So yes I am totally urinary incontinent after years of hardcore untraining. I’m talking private hypnotists repeat times around the clock to remind me to relax my bladder, guided meditation where I imagine there was teeny tiny stent placed in my external sphincter. Identifying as a person who is incontinent, gradually getting comfortable with medical providers knowing. I have a urologist who knows. Scary at first but like any exposure therapy you get used to it. Speaking of therapy I have my own therapist who is sex positive and knows all about my incontinence abdl side and she amazing and empowering. I actually created a technique called Targeted Untraining based on the principles of cognitive behavioral therapy. I haven’t moved on it because of life and also I want to rework it under a new conceptualization. Heres my current level of bladder control: 1. My external sphincter is basically a sliding door at a 24-hour Walmart. I’ve tested my functional bladder capacity and estimate it around 150 cc, which coincidentally is when adults first feel the urge to go. In other words I spontaneously void when my bladder senses fullness. Like a baby. See micturition reflex. 2. If I pay close attention I can hold it for 20 30 seconds. But it’s emotionally and physically exhausting. On the other hand if I’m distracted I may not notice I’m wetting. 3. It’s hard to explain, but I’m losing touch with the whole concept of continence. It feels like this strange super power that people have. And by people, I mean pretty much every adult, including myself up until 6 years ago. Whenever a movie or show I’m watching shows people stripped down to underwear, I a mesmerized by how confidently dry they are. 4. I can tell my bowel control is slipping. I don’t aspire to be bowel incontinent, but I am not doing any thing to stop it, so to speak. 5. Nights are a blur. I have no idea how many times I wet at night, and I only that because the phase of sleep is random. Sometimes I have pee dreams, sometimes no memory, sometimes waking up as I’m peeing. I could go to bed with a full bladder or empty. 6. My most recent development is dribbling. Sometimes it’s enough to change the line on my diaper. I think it’s because nowadays my bladder and pelvic muscles are so weak or dysfunctional or both. I don’t know, but they ain’t working right. It’s hard for my to push the pee out. So the stream is sluggish and pee kinda just hangs out in the urethra until gravity or the next wetting flushes it out. 7. My immediate family knows and so do all my medical providers. That stuff used to freak me out but I’m past that now. See “Targeted untraining-exposure therapy above.” 8. I see myself as a dual ambassador between the ABDL and the medical incontinence community. I get why most people suffering from incontinence cringe and are quick to shoo me away. There are a very tiny few number of pervy peeps in the ABDL community that have no business posting in non vanilla incontinence groups so they can get off.. I couldn’t agree more, it’s totally wrong, and a terrible reflection of ABDL community as a whole. How I feel about it all. Equal parts joy and exhaustion. Sometimes I despise it, like this past summer when I had a horrible diaper rash on my thigh that required antibiotics and still wouldn’t heal so I ended up using a Foley catheter for a few days to air out. Being diaper dependent is not just exhausting, it’s f*cking exhausting. Always worrying if your diaper is showing, especially if you’re like me and don’t like constricting clothing like onesies. Plus, onesie or not, the most worrisome giveaway is smelling like pee, and it’s easy to get noseblind. The cost of diapers is an obvious stressor. Traveling is a pain in the ass. Having to keep spare diapers nearby such as diaper bag when away. Disposal is a pain. And to think, all i did was swapped out our innate ability to control our bodies, which is free, convenient and features a highly redundant failsafe system involving all aspects of from individual fear, to society expectations perpetuates it, for one that is expensive and inefficient and a social taboo and a sign of shame. I get it. I miss wearing underwear a lot. Not over a diaper either. But even so I would never ever ever go back or retrain. I doubt I could if I wanted to anyway. And I’m not ready for that. Best analogy I can give is wetting yourself during diaper changes. It happens to me from time to time, especially during *ahem prolonged diaper changes. They represent the very best and very worst of being totally incontinent, and are a mind-screw. It’s such a helpless feeling to be standing there in a puddle when you just took off your diaper and there’s often a toilet a few paces away. And the cleanup and need to do laundry asap if I used a towel or whatever. There’s also times I’ve taken my diaper after thought I was done peeing only to find out I was mistaken. As I type this I have no idea when I’m going to wet next. Could be 5 minutes from now, 50 minutes, 150 min, who knows? And I wouldn’t have it any other way. TL;DR- It just feels right.