Enthusi

Hi all, this is something I think about a lot as I reflect on my journey and where I am currently at with my incontinence. Let me start by saying I realize this can be a loaded topic. Let’s keep this a brave space, where gentle disagreement, free of shame is encouraged. For context: I wear diapers 24/7 and I have little to no bladder control. I spend thousands of dollars a year on supplies, which are essential for living an active lifestyle. I can’t just crash at someone’s house or go on a weekend getaway. Longer trips require immense planning. I’ve had to deal with medical complications from a bad diaper rash that got infected, because not wearing diapers wasn’t an option. I also worry about the stigma. Staying dry seems like a super power to me. And yet there’s the ABDL angle too… Even so there is something validating about treating my incontinence like a medical condition. In a way it makes things easier for me when I frame it as a condition, even if I’m not miserable. Plus to make it more confusing, it’s possible if not likely that there were some underlying undiagnosed bladder or neurological issues that make continence feel more stressful to me than most people. Again, I realize that there are lots of incontinent individuals out there who have been traumatized from having to wear diapers. I absolutely respect that, and don’t wish to invalidate their reality. I’d love to hear from others if they ever feel disabled, or coping with a chronic condition, even if they aren’t actively suffering? Does framing it like that help or make things more difficult?

I’m soooo glad to know I’m not the only one who does this. It’s a balancing act. You change too much or use too absorbent of a diaper, and it’s wasteful and expensive. You skimp out and it’s a recipe for disaster. Plus, when your bladder doesn’t behave properly it’s even more variability.

1000% Relatable. It’s a total mindscrew. On one hand you (we) voluntarily made the choice to wear diapers 24/7, and I’m assuming you’re also an ABDL and derive some enjoyment from wearing diapers. And then you start developing a legitimate physical need for diapers, and you realize just how much continence is ingrained in society. You have to go to great lengths to adapt. You have to spend thousands of dollars, worry about hygiene and supplies, discretion, and always having to take a f*cking diaper bag with you. If you keep it up you’ll start feeling lost and confused about how everyone else can easily make it to the toilet on time. It starts feeling like a disability, or at the very least a chronic condition to be managed. But you kind of don’t mind because it’s still better than having to worry about staying dry. So yeah, mind screw indeed.

I’ve been to many many appointments in diapers and incontinence is on my record. Depending on the context I usually say “It’s a sensory thing” and leave it at that. Though if I expect to get more questions, I will elaborate that I would rather wear diapers and have the bladder control of a 2 year old, than have the bladder control of a 3 year old and be miserable. The beauty with either explanation is that it conveys I’ve given it a lot of thought (I have), there’s nothing new or alarming going on, and both statements are true.

It seems to me there are two separate but related themes: (1) Viability of becoming diaper dependent while living an active adult lifestyle; and (2) Getting surgery to induce diaper dependence. For me it doesn’t matter how limiting diapers are. I can never go back to being continent. It’s hard to make a case that diapers are better than having bladder control, but it is what it is. I’ve essentially swapped out a human waste management system that is convenient free, evolutionary adaptive, socially appropriate, and more hygienic for one that is expensive, cumbersome, taboo and socially uncomfortable. For what it’s worth, diapers haven’t impacted my ability to do things that much. Hiking in the wilderness would be difficult in diapers, but I’m not an outdoorsy person. Frankly the biggest annoyance is being unable to pack lightly for weekend getaway trips. I would love to be able fly somewhere for a few days with just a carry-on but that ain’t happening. Oh well. Life goes on. Besides, I find that dealing with the challenges of living an active lifestyle while diaper dependent to be validating. For instance, instead of simply going to the bathroom before a long car ride, I have to change into a fresh diaper and make sure I pack my diaper bag. It’s a lot of work to get to the same endpoint. But I like knowing that I can’t just take off my diaper when it gets inconvenient. As for the question of surgery, that’s complicated. I’ve had smashing success with my untraining. Being more incontinent wouldn’t change my need for diapers. And yet, I’m constantly plagued by self doubt if I’m “lazy” for preferring diapers. There’s an incessant monologue in my head telling me that I’m rationalizing an irrational desire to wear diapers 24/7. With surgery I’d go from being 99.9% incontinent to 100%. It’s not worth it in terms of cost and risks, and so I don’t see myself going through with a surgery. Though that 0.1% difference sure feels a lot bigger then that at times.

I’m loving these replies. Multiple folks (myself included) mention little moments throughout the day where they were drier or wetter than anticipated resulting in leaks or near-leaks, or surprised by not leaking. It seems to be par for the course. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised seeing as this is an incontinence forum. But still it’s interesting how we collectively contend with the imprecision, and the consequences of such, as we go about our diapered lives.

Oh I LOVE this topic. I can’t wait to hear what others have to say. Here’s my 24 hours starting bedtime this past Sunday. Went to bed around 10:30 pm. I chose my standard go-to diaper, an InControl BeDry Overnight. I use a cage mostly for the fun of it, but it does help me keep my bits pointed in the right direction. I always use barrier cream at night for both diaper rash and to prevent chafing from the cage. I got hot easily so I slept in just my diaper. At some point at night I woke up from a dream and it took me a second or two to realize I was dreaming… and then I noticed a buzzing around my groin. I distinctly remember being confused for a second, then it clicked I was peeing. Or maybe the peeing woke me up? It’s all a big blur. I don’t know if I wet any more in my sleep. I woke up at my usual time with some degree of bladder pressure. As usual, reached for my phone and I started voiding. It’s probably a mix of posture and conditioning, but it’s like a reflex at this point. Finally I force myself out of my comfy bed, and throw my overnight diaper into my diaper pail take off the cage and shower. I recall feeling a little distressed after showering when I was doing my morning hygiene routine and I realized I hadn’t peed in the shower. The problem being that it’s more likely I would start peeing while shaving or brushing my teeth. Even though I didn’t feel any bladder pressure it doesn’t matter. I usually don’t have any warning, maybe 20-30 seconds from when the urge hits to when my bladder muscles give out. And that’s if I’m paying attention. So I tightened the towel around my waist and moved the bathroom mat out of the way, just in case my bladder decided to empty. It didnt empty this time, which is cool. Get dressed for work. I throw on a Tranquility ATN with plastic pants. These diapers are terrible and leak prone but the price is right. It’s fine though because my GI systems is on a schedule and I don’t expect to be in the diaper that long. Mid morning diaper change. On a whim,I decided to do use Abena with plastic pants and test how long I could go. Usually I use InControl BeDry daytime diapers and change mid-way through the work day. but with the economy, I wanted to see if I could be a little more frugal. I ended up putting the cage back on for safe measure, as an extra security against leaks. Also more barrier cream. Hot dog! The experiment worked. The combo of cage + Abena + plastic pants kept me adequately dry through the entire remainder of the work day. No leaks. I have no idea how much I pee or how frequent. There’s no point tracking that. It was at least a few times. By the end of the work day I was thoroughly saturated and the left leg cuff of my plastic pants was a tiny bit damp. But my pants were dry! I aired out and changed plastic pants and put on another Abena and I was good to go until bedtime. I did have a good soaking or two that evening and at one point I thought I was gonna leak though it held. At bedtime I changed to a fresh InControl BeDry and that was that. All in all I went through 4 diapers. Side note, as I write this (the next day) I’m back in my daytime InControl BeDry. While the Abena and plastic pants worked, and could lead to cost savings, I find that I like the feel of BeDrys (without plastic pants) better. But I’m gonna continue experimenting.

Depending on your point of view, having an accident during a diaper change is either the ultimate triumph, or failure.

Not only do I agree, but I would take it a step further and say that some people get weird in how they define incontinence. It only happens on forums like these. Not in IRL, and certainly not in medical settings. Incontinence is a symptom/sign, similar to fever… It could be caused by lots of things and could be a minor concern or a big deal. Can you reliably deposit all of your urine and feces where you intend for it to go? If your answer is anything but “yes” you’re incontinent.

And to be fair I think a lot of us have dysfunctional voiding in one direction or another. And it’s good you have had some progress, it seems. Don’t give up hope just yet. Plus remind yourself that you didn’t chose to wake up dry any more then I chose to wake up wet.

This is definitely a thing. For some people it happens early on in the process and it’s a snowball effect. For others it seems that no matter how hard they try they can’t get themselves to sleep wet. And it doesn’t even correlate to bedwetter status as a child. I’ve always wondered what that’s about.

Honestly, that’s a major reason why I lost steam with the guide I was writing.

This video does a good job overviewing the process. The factory default is called micturition reflex. It’s how a baby’s urinary system works. We never really lose this reflex, but instead learn how to modulate and suppress the reflexive peeing through the process called toilet training. There is no specific one size fits all approach to reverting back to the factory default. At least as far as I know. Instead it’s about doing a bunch of little things and lots of psychological and behavior techniques to undermine the influence of toilet training on the micturition reflex. The goal is to see yourself as helpless to stop your external urinary sphincter from reflexively relaxing upon sensing a full bladder.

Hi I started writing a guide called “Targeted Untraining” and I shared the intro on this forum, which you may be able to find still. Unfortunately I didn’t like the way it was shaping up, and then life got in the way and I never finished it. My method, which I developed to untrain myself, borrows heavily from techniques used in cognitive behavioral therapy is as follows: 1. Learn how bladder control actually works on a biological level. This means knowing all the body parts, their function. How does the basic micturition reflex (“the factory default”) in babies work? How does that reflex get hijacked during toilet training? There are lots of good YouTube videos on this topic. 2. Once you know how bladder control develops and works, start looking for various ways to undermine the process and revert your system back to factory default. This includes the psychological aspect (accepting yourself as incontinent), unable to stop yourself from reflexively wetting when you feel the urge, and physical aspect (deconditioning of the muscles), with an emphasis on rewarding yourself to reinforce desired behaviors. 3. Continue over a long span of time (years), and nudge yourself towards a spiral, which is when your control slips a little so you feel compelled to rely on your diaper, which reinforces your need for diapers, which further weakens your control. Hope that helps!

Great question! Ive been 24/7 for about 8 years now, rigorously untrained myself for 5+ years. Maybe more? I lost count a while back A) Waking up and using the restroom - 0%* B ) Waking, using the diaper and falling asleep - 20% C) Vaguely recalling "going" at night, but hazy and unsure if I actually remember doing it or if I'm imagining I remember doing it or 50% D) Sleeping like a rock, remembering nothing but waking up soaked. 30% For me there is ZERO pattern or predictability to my wetting. I usually wet multiple times a night, and it can happen during any stage of sleep. My sleep schedule and bladder schedule are completely out of sync. If my bladder empties during a lighter stage or sleep it will wake me up, or I will wake up with a bursting bladder, promptly feel warmth, and go back to sleep. If it’s during REM sleep, then I’ll have a pee dream, or at least a vague notion of something going on during the dream. If it’s deep sleep, then no memory. I don’t mind it. Quite the opposite. I used to be terrified of having accidents when I was a kid, even though I was dry most nights. Probably OCD In hindsight. I love how I can go to bed on a full bladder or empty bladder or anywhere in between and sleep worry free. It truly doesn’t matter any more. * Even if I woke up dry with a full bladder, there is no way I could get out of bed, stand up, walk to the toilet and take off my diaper and make it on time. So I don’t even bother trying to go the the bathroom anymore. But that’s fine because it reinforces sleep wetting. 😊

@Princeoftoddlers Thank you so much for this update. Your experience is strikingly similar to mine when I was at that stage of the journey. So, if you are excited about being diaper dependent, then keep up the good work! 🤣 You are 100 percent correct that it’s a slow, uneven process. There’s both a mental aspect and a physical aspect to untraining. Speaking of which, how are you doing with the psychological aspect? How well do you currently trust yourself to stay dry? How about dealing with the major hassles of being in diapers full time, such as traveling, and having to take a diaper bag whenever you’re out and about? Congrats on getting this far! Please keep us posted. There’s not many of us who dig this lifestyle, so a little bit of inspiration goes a long way.

I’m fully urinary incontinent going on several years. My bowel control isn’t as good as it used to be, but it’s still “good enough”. I will say there are several times a month where I have what I call “gray accidents.” Where I intend to make it to the toilet for number 2, but just sort of give up when it becomes too much to manage. It’s more like an “eh screw it, I’m wearing a diaper…” vibe takes over and impulsively I just go. Though always when the stakes are low, so to speak. I can clean a messy diaper just as cleanly and efficiently as using the toilet but then again being bowel incontinent won’t add much to the quality of my experience. I’m still diaper dependent either way, so I’d prefer to keep some degree of bowel control.

Hello and welcome! I agree with all the tips tricks and pointers shared. I have a few additional comments. 1. When it comes to discretion, if I were you, I’d be less worried about diaper bulge and more concerned about smelling like pee. It’s easy to become “nose blind”. For this reason I wear thick high quality plastic-backed tape diapers, and I stay hydrated to dilute my urine. 2. You may find that after a few weeks of 24/7 you don’t like it as much as you imagined. Don’t get mad at yourself if you loose interest, and certainly don’t force yourself to wear diapers when you really don’t want to. Remember it’s normal for humans to not want to wear diapers… those of us who wear full time for years, we are the oddballs. 3. That said… it gets easier with time. 4. Enjoy it! 😎

There is nothing quite like this feeling… When ur having a normal casual quiet conversation and you feel ur bladder give out and you continue your conversation all the while your diaper is getting warmer and heavier and nobody is the wiser for it.

Great question! After years of wearing diapers and untraining I’m completely diaper dependent day and night … at least urinary. I often think about whether or not I could retrain, assuming I have a genuine desire to, which I don’t. As difficult as it is being totally incontinent and diaper dependent, for me it feels easier, better and more natural than when I had decent bladder control. Up until recently, I would’ve said the largest barrier to retraining is that my muscles and the external sphincter feel too weak. When my bladder gets to about 150-200 cc it contracts and my sphincter gives out. However over the past year, it seems I’ve lost the continence mentality and I find more and more I forget what it’s like to “hold it in”. It feels like toileting is for other people, not me. Plus the muscle weakness is still there too.

Came here to say this. It’s the best way to ensure things are pointed correctly.

@oznl Based on ur description I was probably a little further along. However sounds like you’re doing quite well yourself. More important I have to wonder if you’re falling prey to the common untraining phenomenon of overestimating your bladder control. When you’ve been diapered as long as you have it’s easy to forget that it’s normal to be 99.99%-100% confidence in being dry at any given point … 24/7. Sounds crazy but it’s true.

Something I’ve observed, which is very frustrating for all parties involved, is the high amount of variability with results. I have my theories why this could be. In my case, I often wonder if I had some pre-existing weirdness with my bladder that went ignored or was erroneously chalked up to me be an ABDL.

I think there’s a subtle but important distinction between what physical therapists do to help restore bladder function and what we’re talking about here… Timed voiding in the classic sense, relies on the individual wanting to stay dry when they aren’t voiding. The idea is that you use the potty when the alarm rings. Here I think it’s more about teaching yourself to relieve yourself on the spot before you realize how full your bladder is. I did use a lot of repeat timers to remind me to relax the muscles. I don’t remember exactly the interval I said, but I think it varied. Also I didn’t wait for the timer to go off to relax if I felt a twinge of a desire to. It’s hard to say how long it took because I did that at the same time I was doing other things like working with a hypnotist, guided imagery about my stupid weak useless sphincter muscle, and overall any mind trick or behavioral trick I could think of to convince myself that I just don’t have it in me to hold it in any more. Symptoms I take a step further and try to convince myself that clenching down on the muscles somehow is somehow toxic to me. But all in all I’d say it took a few years to revert my sphincter back to default relaxed state, and cause a reflexive wetting when the bladder stretches.

@Diaperman123 that’s kind of on hiatus right now because of life. Plus, I’m thinking about redoing it to focus more on the psychological aspects