What IS an "ABDL" or "AB" Diaper"?

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I see the term "ABDL diaper" often used It seems to have meaning One would think of Bambino, ABU, Rearz, etc. However there are no characteristics or specifications given How is this class different from medical diapers? It seems that DL's are happy with medical diapers, so this may bemore of an AB thing. What would a cloth AB?AK diaper be and how would it be different from a medical cloth diaper?

BabyDoll diapers are just a larger version of a diaper that was made for a 5 year old bedwetter girl by her mother. It used the new (1951) prefold diaper and was a pre-cursor to the contour The same diaper was wearable from age 5 to 9+. It had no special markings. Being simpply a larger version of an atual of homemade diaper for a bedwetter girl of 5 and up the BabyDoll is automatically authentic for its time. Having been put in the original I can speak to that personally. At  that time, for anyone over 3, a diaper was a sign of babyishness and quite unwanted by the wearer with the rubber panties being the real active item of babyfication because they were readily discernible AS baby panties and they usually were just larger versions of baby panties

What makes an AB or DL diaper different from a medical diaper? and is there even such a thing as a strictly DL diaper given that there is no real DL narrative other than the diaper? Is there such  a thing in the world of throw-aways as an AK diaper and other than markings, if even that, khow would they be told apart from an AB diapers This also applies to the usualy cloth diapers with the BabyDoll being a special case as they are homemade as larger copies of an actual very little/little bedwetter diaper that was itself homemade, which was common in that time period

 

[Dubious]

AB diaper to me is any diaper with a print on it.
Plastic pants don't count, as they are not diapers. 

ABDL diapers generally have a bigger capacity, but they all use the old design where your bum gets wet. 
Even when Tena is soaked, I usually don't fell wet. 

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Several Bambinos are just plain white. Prints do not make the diaper more effective and diapers have been defined as underware so they should not be visible anyway

[Little Sherri]

8 minutes ago, Little BabyDoll Christine said:

diapers have been defined as underware so they should not be visible anyway

To the above, I would say this: some families treat diapers more like pajamas than underwear, or more like, say, a cast, or a sling - evidence of a "disability", maybe, but not something shameful. I wore diapers in situations where I never would have been allowed to run around in my underwear, when I was a kid, and while my brother had PJ's and my sister had a nightie on, I would sometimes wear just a diaper. My diaper was viewed more like pajama pants. 

To the question at hand, I think that an ABDL diaper is whatever the wearer believes it is; for some people, any diaper makes them feel babyish, hence earning the AB adder to the DL designation. Whereas DL's, I believe, just like diapers; they're not in it for diapers transporting them to another "play age" (or whatever terminology you prefer). I'd imagine that it's perfectly believable that someone might feel like they're engaged in age play while wearing a plain white disposable or cloth diaper, and it's also plausible that a DL might just really love how, say, a Critter Caboose feels, but doesn't care how they look, and maybe wishes Rearz made a white one version, or maybe they don't care either way. 

For some, plain white diapers look medical, which reeks of aging and infirmity, the opposite of what they want to be feeling or thinking about, hence, a  juvenile (or just whimsical) print is preferred, and a diaper that looks like it was stolen from a palliative care ward is disdained.

I broadly define myself as an ABDL, although I came into the DL portion first, because I was a DL back when it wasn't possible to be an AB, as I wasn't an adult; I recall having "funny feelings" about wearing diapers at the dawn of my memories, when I was maybe 4 or 5. Back then, all diapers were white, and only plastic panties had any colour to them. Since I grew up in mostly white Pampers, and the occasional white cloth diaper under opaque clear plastic panties (with one exception, noted below), plain white diapers still transport me to a younger time. But, that said, I envied people who could wear the diapers that came along when I was older, with their myriad of splendid prints, so I also love those, and about half of my inventory consists of printed diapers.

The exception I referred to was one coveted pair of plastic panties that had pink elastics - maybe you would know who made those, as you're the resident expert on the topic, without question. They were handed down from my sister, who was 4 years older than me, so she would have worn them in the late 1970's, when she was 3 or 4, because they fit me until I was 6 or 7, in the mid 1980's. They were also opaque and clear, but the elastics were pink, and there was a tiny pink bow at the front, and they fit on the large side, because I was still wishfully squeezing into them when I was maybe even older than that - I think they ultimately split and got tossed out. I used to throw a fit when I was made to wear them, because "they're for girls", but then I would sit and look at them when nobody was around, because I was also drawn to them. 

[~Brian~]

@Little Sherri

A diaper is by definition something that is designed to be pooped in/peed in, And that's it. Diapers are there to help those that need them. whether they need them because of incontinence, because of disability, or because of some other medical reasoning or psychological reasoning, or maybe a comfort reason. Diapers help so many other people. and I'm glad they do, because so many people feel whole because they have diapers on, or they feel like a piece of them is missing, and they finally realize after years and years of denial that they really Lake diapers are they need diapers in more ways than one.

Diapers are special underwear, but diapers also have a special Designation. I don't know if very many young girls who were who were in diapers didn't occasionally run around with nothing on, but of course, girls usually end up having their cute dresses, or maybe their sleepers or whatever they're wearing, and they Don't normally go without their diapers on or without pajamas or clothing on. Girls usually don't do that, by design, but that does happen from time to time.

Guys on the other hand are a different story: I don't know how many times I've seen little boys carried into stores or something when it's really hot outside, and nothing other than maybe a T shirt and a diaper. There's also times when guys would run in the sprinklers are And up enjoying playing in water something like that and someone would take their clothes off and just leave their diaper on, and then change them after they're all done in the water. It all depends on how things, and what situation Happens. guys usually can get away with running around in diapers, because that's usually what happens. being young gives you that opportunity, and hardly anyone would say anything about that.

As far as what makes a diaper an AB diaper or a DL diaper or an ABDL diaper: I guess you could say that what makes the diaper special is that it is made it is made in such a way to mimic a diaper that someone who is of adult age remembers wearing as a child come, and they want to wear diapers or they need to wear diapers, and as and as per their situation, they want to add the fun into the fact that they have to wear diapers. Whether it be for medical reasons or disability, the need is there, and some people want to have diapers that remind them of the diapers they wore as kids, which is why these people like rears and North Shore come up with diapers that have colors or diapers that have designs or colors or anything like that. There's no harm in wearing diapers, and there's no Harm enjoying the way they make you feel, and sometimes wearing a diaper like that makes you feel extremely little. Also, the way someone dresses you could make you feel that way as well.

Sometimes I think what it is is people are to become little in their mind, and the way they do that is to wear diapers or appropriate adult baby clothing. No one is going to stop you from wearing diapers and enjoying yourself, but you also have to be careful where you go and how you deal with the situations. wearing a diaper and feeling the way it hugs you or the way it makes you feel or the crinkoliness or whatever, that is part of what makes it special. It also makes you feel special because a diaper says: i'm here to help you you need me, and a diaper is designed to be released in: a diaper is designed for that purpose, and most people would be mortified if they were adults and had an accident in a diaper and weren't used to it. sometimes what makes a diaper feel so good is the fact that you are set up in a situation where you remember being a kid: and you remember walking around crinkling and bobbing around your house, are playing with your brothers or sisters, are playing on the beach, and every time you crinkle or you move just right it brings back memories. seeing that big huge white diaper strap to you so it so it can't come off you remember how it felt when you were a kid: sometimes when you have that particular feeling it's like somebody giving you a real good shot of adrenaline: you feel like $1,000,000 and you feel like you're on cloud nine and you feel guilty because you are enjoying something that may be considered taboo.

A diaper makes A bit difference to an adult baby or to a diaper lover. I think basically the idea is that most people when they get put in a diaper, they may feel guilty about it, and that's what makes them feel so strange and so weird: sometimes when you have someone put a diaper on you or you put one on, your adrenaline is there and everything is just on autopilot: it feels so good that all you wanna do is sit there and scream Yahoo with the top of your lungs, because you actually have one on and it feels good. it's like somebody giving you an extra succulent chocolate bar and you want that chocolate bar and you do anything for it call it's the feeling and it's the situation that you're in and it's the situation that a diaper puts you in. the diaper is a very big part of it but it is not the only part of it but it's the biggest part. you also have to put into consideration that you're using baby equipment such as a walker or a bouncer or maybe a stroller or something like that, things that make you feel like a baby because you are in them, or things that bring you back to a time when things were so innocent that it wasn't thought of as taboo.

A B's and DL's are two different classifications: however we are in the same niche to a point col and we both wear diapers and we probably both Like them. The difference is how a person uses them, or why they wear them do they want to feel like a baby, or do they like the diaper because of the way it feels, or do they like the fact that they are able to get away with something that they think is naughty: whatever the reason, an AB and a DL while being two different subsets, it's just how it works: summer some of the best things that I can tell you about being a DL is the fact that I don't have to hide it anymore, I don't have to feel guilty anymore, and all of the things that were negative about this basically went flying out the window when I finally accepted what I am and who I am Period now I don't have to worry about my health or my ability to relax and enjoy myself. my mental health is quite important to me, and I figure wearing diapers helps me so why not enjoy it. it's like having that big chocolate bar: you like that chocolate bar so much that you want it really really bad: diapers feel like that diapers are things that babies wear and so do adults, but there's no harm in wearing diapers that remind you of the fact that you are trying to relive what it was like to be little. the only problem is adult diapers are very expensive, and most and most baby diapers nowadays aren't even plastic back, even if they say there's plastic in them they're all clothed back and they're all cheaply made

An AB and a DL in my mind are two different classifications but you can be both you can be one or the other or you can be incontinent plus an AB or an incontinent diaper lover, but the idea but the idea is we all lake diapers for some reason, And most people want to try to relive what it's like to be a baby again, even if they can never be a baby again. they can act like one as an adult baby, but I think it's I think it's pretty cool: these days one of these days I'd love to be able to wear a diaper that reminded me of what it was like as a kid one of those really thick ones that would make your legs bow out really big, so I guess the only way that is possible is to end up getting a couple to three megamaxes and then putting them on one on top of the other on top of the other!

I can understand why little Sherry for example may have the ideas that he does and why he feels the way he does. Sometimes, having a diaper, you can get away with a lot more than if you didn't wear diapers, and some people think of a diaper as a like a pair of lounge pajamas like he says, but I still think of diapers as something that is there to help you, and in my case i'm incontinent, but why not enjoy wearing the diaper and enjoying feelings that they elicit: it really helps my psyche it really helps me as an individual and makes me feel complete if that makes any sense. I can't tell you how many times I felt like I was jealous that somebody else was wearing a diaper and I wasn't, and that is part of having those feelings. I don't have to worry about that anymore because I can wear a diaper for as long as I want, and nobody's gonna stop me and nobody is going to say anything, because that is the way I am.

So enjoy being an AB or a DL and don't procrastinate: if you wanna wear a diaper, just do it! in some cases waiting to do something maybe harder on you, especially really want to do it. @zombieg Says what are you waiting for? if you wanna wear a diaper do it you'll feel better for it! trust me, I feel like a complete person because of the actual decisions I have made! I don't care if I have to wear diapers for the rest of my life, but at least this way I can deal with some of the feelings i've always had, and I'd have to do it and in an appropriate way, in a diaper helps me to do that: because whatever comes out that's what the diaper is designed to do!

Brian

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

In the summer of 1961 or 62 there was a news report out of a Providence Radio station about a toddler found outside wearing "blue rubber pants", which I presume were over a diaper. That was considered scandalous. and to demonstrate the slovenliness of some parents it would be said "the kid(s) are running around in just their diapers" as late as the '80's and 90's. This only became tolerated in the early 1970's in the early stages of the sexualization of children (along with everything else)

[Apache Raccoon]

I’d define an ABDL diaper as an adult diaper that more often than not has a babyish print on it and is made by a company targeting ABDL’s.

Medical diapers I define as diapers made by a company targeting people with incontinence issues.

I don’t think it’s much more complicated than that.

Perhaps the plain ABDL diapers could be considered as strictly DL diapers, they loose the baby print stuff, but are still intended for people who like wearing them even if they aren’t into the AB part.

[MegaChar]

Abdl diapers are diapers with higher then adverage capacity then what you can buy at a store and they mostly have designs on them.

 

[ValentinesStuff]

There are, or possibly were, four tiers of adult diapers.

AB diapers, which have a very high capacity and sometimes a cute print or color.

Medical diapers which will have a good capacity and generally be white or plainly colored.

Mass market diapers which have a poor capacity and are easily available in stores.

Institutional diapers, I'm not sure if these still exist, generally had overall poor quality and absorbency. These were made for nursing homes, and other facilities where the users were not mobile and often changed. I was short of cash at one point and couldn't afford the top quality diapers I usually bought, the company had on their website a cheaper diaper that I assumed was just a less absorbent version of my normal purchase. It wasn't, the tapes failed from just walking around for a short time, they leaked, and overall were worse than Depends. Oddly that company at the time had two websites, one targeting the AB market, and the other targeting the incontinence market. The top tier diapers they sold were branded differently, but identical in price an manufacture only the packaging was different.

 

There has always been some blurring between AB and medical diapers. Like the company that simply branded them differently or now where companies like NorthShore blatantly target both groups on their website.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

6 hours ago, Apache Raccoon said:

Perhaps the plain ABDL diapers could be considered as strictly DL diapers, they loose the baby print stuff, but are still intended for people who like wearing them even if they aren’t into the AB part.

My diapers are strictly white and there is not so much as an ounce of DL in me. Also the early baby throw-aways were plain white. The thing is, printed baby diapers mean absolutley NOTHING to an infant and they are no better than white diapers. So it can only be that they appeal to adults and are valuied for esthetics rather than function

So, we have established that there is an esthetic component to AB diapers, and that based on time period. I would also think that bulk between the legs would make a difference but that could easily include DL Also note that most DL's became such at a very early age, many DL's have a "Play Age" and many DL's develop an AB/AK interest. So it could be that DL has a bit of AB/AK built int. I suspect that the latter is a result of the fact that the overwhelming bulk of the "diaper" narrative is baby/little with the next common being elderly and the third being disabulity; these last to having a since of f"sick" as part of them and are unwanted by most persons

As I said in another topic there is an esthetic to cloth diapers, it being that the rubber panties are very full. For cloth AB/AK, the close fitting ones just do not look right. That esthetic is based on functionality, mainly, to be abile to swallow up very thick or double or triple diapers. In 1952, girls were diapered much more thickly tan boys if they needed to be and girls were diapered more often and it did not show because little girls were in dresses that accommodated them as a matter of course, often full-skirted just because they looked cute

[oznl]

I don't think there's a dictionary definition but I think an ABDL diaper is simply an adult diaper that was designed to support ABDL use cases as opposed to strictly medical. 

Differentiators here include:

1. A design focus predicated on the USER being the CHOOSER of the diaper
2. A lower priority on institutional preferences such as skin integrity, carer effort in changing in favour of comfort, product performance and durability in the face of wearer mobility
3. Preparedness to sacrifice manufacturing economy for performance (ABDL users will pay a premium that institutions will not)
4. An optional indulgence of ABDL aesthetic through printed patterns, scenting and even nostalgic design decisions

When I started out permanently diapered, I persisted with medical brands but swiftly learned that for highly mobile users looking for long-term performance and not running a hospital-style 4 hour changing routine, "ABDL" designed products represent a quantum, game-changing improvement.

If I was stuck with Tena Maxi, I'd have to change 4 times per day and be constantly looking for places I could do so.  My "Barry" (Elite Hybrid InControl Whatever) just goes all day.  A Rearz Barnyard would as well.  I'd be much closer to "DL" than "AB" on the spectrum which is probably why I refuse to pay the cost premium for printed versions of those diapers.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I think you are right But that is what is to be made explicit

Fabines was not an ABDL diaper but its high capacity made it such. until Bambino marketed a similar one. Also, I think the esthetic is more with the AB than Dl/AB diaper as it supports the AB narraitive. In the case of cloth, the narrative may be more borne out in th panties since they cover and hide the diaper. That esthetic need not be just visual but auditory and tactile. But even in the non-ABDL world the tactile and visual may be a thing. Prints may be more inviting in an institutional setting according to A. C. Medical, years back and for most of my life, smooth thicker material was seen to be of higher quality. In the disposable world at the nursing home where I did recovery and rehab, I found the "briefs [full-on diapers]" to reflect chintziness and the pull-ups were abysmal. Plus, even if I did not use them, they left an unpleasant smell on my chastity area and I was glad when the week that I had to be mostly on my back was over and I could move about freely

[rusty pins]

Something to ponder is the age of the interested person.  Now days actual disposable baby diapers have cartoon prints on them, including pull-ups and Goodnites.  Younger people in their 20's, 30's and even 40's who wore these printed diapers as children will relate to them as an adult based on their childhood experiences.  They may figure the adult AB printed diapers on the market today remind them of what they wore as a baby, therefore they think of it as an AB diaper, or an adult baby diaper.  They also might just think of it as a normal adult diaper without any connotation it is a baby style diaper, because printed diapers were what they had to wear as a toddler or older child.  They were normal.

Likewise, I'm 64 years old and of the older generation.  When I was a kid I wore white cloth diapers and frosted Gerber plastic pants, especially to bed until almost age 6.  That's what they had in the 1950's and early 1960's and what almost every parent used.  I had no printed diapers, disposable diapers or even fancy plastic pants with prints.  Even when Pampers became widely available in the late 1960's and 1970's they were plain white, no prints at all.  Diapers to me are white whether they are cloth or disposable because that was what I wore.  I am not AB but if I did have AB tendencies, I might understand that adult babies will like the diapers with prints on them but an adult baby diaper to me at my age would be the same as what I wore as a toddler.  White.  As a DL, the same applies.  Since I became a DL as a 5 year old wearing white diapers, as an adult I think of disposable diapers for adults as being white.

[ppdude]

Remember what Henry Ford said: "You can have any diaper color you want as long as it's white."

 

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

That is something that I cannot even understand; how somoeone from the '50's and early 60's can even abide throw-aways. Everything about them is worng, the feel, the process of diapering and the sounds. I tried and it was a 100% no go, the same with nylon and PUL panties. I did not even try PEVA, I just got some for my dolls and they reminded me of trash bags in both feel and sound

The process of being diapered in a disposable, with the tapes and all is totally different from being pinned in and having the panties either pulled up or snapped into place and the cloth diapers are soooo much bulkier than the throw-aways

The sounds are different. the disposables crinkle like trash bags but the rubber panties over the cloth diaper made more of a "sssh' sound and rubber panties were a necessary part of cloth diapers and the most visiable, audible and tactile (it is what you felt when you put your hand down there)

However, older DL's seem to be fine with throw-aways, which makes me think that DL is mostly about what you do in diapers rather than being in them

[ValentinesStuff]

4 hours ago, Little BabyDoll Christine said:

That is something that I cannot even understand; how somoeone from the '50's and early 60's can even abide throw-aways. Everything about them is worng, the feel, the process of diapering and the sounds. I tried and it was a 100% no go, the same with nylon and PUL panties. I did not even try PEVA, I just got some for my dolls and they reminded me of trash bags in both feel and sound

The process of being diapered in a disposable, with the tapes and all is totally different from being pinned in and having the panties either pulled up or snapped into place and the cloth diapers are soooo much bulkier than the throw-aways

The sounds are different. the disposables crinkle like trash bags but the rubber panties over the cloth diaper made more of a "sssh' sound and rubber panties were a necessary part of cloth diapers and the most visiable, audible and tactile (it is what you felt when you put your hand down there)

However, older DL's seem to be fine with throw-aways, which makes me think that DL is mostly about what you do in diapers rather than being in them

As a baby I wore only cloth diapers. But I have no memory of wearing diapers. As an adult I wanted to continue wearing cloth diapers, but I could not find any decent waterproof covers, all the ones I found leaked or didn't fit right. The most common one I found wasn't even, and I'm pretty sure still isn't designed to fit a human body. 

So I bought the disposable adult diapers that were available and I got used to them.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Well, there are plenly of good rubber panties now

Also, my memory of diapers is mostly from 6 to 9 and my memory of rubber panties is from just under 3 to 9. I do not really remember what the baby diapers I wore felt like. That is why I make sure to stress that the BabyDoll diaper is a "little" diaper

It would seem to me that you would wear what you were wearing or seeing when you "caught the bug". They kind of diaper that evolved into the BabyDoll is what I remember. I do not remember what I was in as a baby, but I did see many of the baby diapers when I was little and began paying attention to them when I was about 4. When I started wearing AB diapers, it was the prefold style and they were not that good for me as they were a bit thin. The best solution for both cost and feel was to make my own based on what I was put in as a little. To see the evolution of the BabyDoll see below

That is what I remember, and snap-on rubber panties under pull-on ones

[Alyeskabird]

Honestly, the only thing that makes a diaper specificly an abdl diaper, is advertisment. A child is not going to notice or care a whole lot about the diaper they are wearing untell they are old enough to have developed likeings for things, generaly that tends to be what, 2-3 years of age? Might be later, I do not remember, its around when kids start likeing this or that cartoon better, or stuff like that. In most cases the prints and whatnot on diapers are made for the perents/caregivers. After all, look who the comercials are aimed at. You do not see a lot of diaper commercials aimed at kids after all.

Some adults that are incon actualy like the printed diapers, even the rather babyish prints, just cause they get tired of plane white stuff.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

3 minutes ago, Alyeskabird said:

Honestly, the only thing that makes a diaper specificly an abdl diaper, is advertisment. A child is not going to notice or care a whole lot about the diaper they are wearing untell they are old enough to have developed likeings for things, generaly that tends to be what, 2-3 years of age? Might be later, I do not remember, its around when kids start likeing this or that cartoon better, or stuff like that. In most cases the prints and whatnot on diapers are made for the perents/caregivers. After all, look who the comercials are aimed at. You do not see a lot of diaper commercials aimed at kids after all.

Some adults that are incon actualy like the printed diapers, even the rather babyish prints, just cause they get tired of plane white stuff.

Exactly

Most DL's who get the bug at a young age seem to get it at around 4 or 5. Also I see many AB's with a play age of 4 or 5 which is well out of infancy/toddler and into the AK range This suggests to me that was how old they were when they cought the "bug"

When I was 4, large scale TV was very new so I do not think we would have been character conscious I do not know if we would have been the same as they are today and there were many fewer characters, Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, Superman and batman. Maybe Porky Pig, Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny and Woody Wookpecker would have been a long shot. But how man 2 or 3 year olds would have known about them? You would have either had to get "funnybooks: or go to the movies. That all began when you were about 6 or  7. ( first saw Felix w;hen I was 7 and he was a slilent character so those 'toons were from the '20's. Scrappy and Krazy Kat came on TV when I was goin on 8 and they were silent

Surpisingly enough, they did have cloth diapers with prints in the '60's along with print baby panties at that time. JK Perfect Personal Products also had pritned panties but they were made of grainy material and the prints were not babyish but things like check. a. C. Medical also had flower prints which made nice babydoll sets (skirt and matching panty). That was in their early days some 30 years ago and mostly experimental (adopting the skirts was under my influence and they found they could make a go of it. Too bad Rearz did not keep it up) and that did not last long. I would like to see flower  print babydoll sets. I think the Gary prints are too babyish and not little girlish, and their choices are diminishing. They do not have 6 mil chrystal clear nor lollidots anymore and I do not see the regular clear anymore, either

[rusty pins]

To set the record straight, if My living situation was different, I'd probably wear cloth diapers more and more.  I do like disposable diapers for many reasons.  I don't have to do laundry, I feel dryer than in a soaked cloth diaper, a good premium disposable diaper will last me longer than a heavy cloth diaper, I can go out of town shopping in a Betterdry premium disposable diaper and last about 8 hours without needing to change where as a cloth diaper that bulky would need changed sooner, and I wouldn't even be able to pull my jeans up over that cloth diaper due to the side padding (it's obvious any time at home I wear a thick cloth diaper).  Also it's the convenience to toss a disposable diaper away instead of tossing wet cloth diapers in a diaper pail to soak.  There is no hanging thick cloth diapers on the cloths line either outside for everyone to see or inside for them to dry, or putting them in the dryer for a long time, ether of which takes quite a while  I also don't have to empty any contents out of my diaper into the toilet either.

Now, if I lived alone, I would wear cloth more but not give up disposables.  At times I do like the feeling of wetness a cloth diaper gives you.  I can live with the bulk at home as well, and plastic pants are cool over any diaper but especially cloth.  Yes, I grew up as a young child with cloth diapers but it was disposables I used around age 12 for personal pleasure because that was what I could get and easily get rid of without my parents finding them.  I really got to love disposable diapers, how they felt, the plastic backing, taping them on and not needing plastic pants as a teen, which I had no way to get at that time.  To each his own and everyone has their likes and preference.