Grocery bag excess

[ValentinesStuff]

I just bought some groceries. 25 items. 2 items weren't bagged. I came home with 20 grocery bags! some things were triple bagged. What a waste. 

[Thad]

Not if you use them to bag up your used diapers lol

[~Brian~]

8 minutes ago, ValentinesStuff said:

I just bought some groceries. 25 items. 2 items weren't bagged. I came home with 20 grocery bags! some things were triple bagged. What a waste. 

@ValentinesStuff

I would agree with you! - I have no problem with USING a product, but 25 bags for the purchases would make sense if they were products prone to leaking or unthawing when you are dealing with frozen stuff.  My problem is that most places in Vermont are now using Paper Bags for all purchases, with an exception in the Bag Law that says if you have a supply of Plastic Bags, you are STILL allowed to use them UNTIL you run out, then you MUST use paper Bags, OR Bring reusable/cloth/washable bags that are better for the environment.

Me, using a chair, I like the plastic bags myself:  Paper Bags don't LAST, and I've DROPPED things on the ground because of that, so I do carry a reusable bag if needed.

Brian

[id0ntknow]

3 hours ago, ValentinesStuff said:

I just bought some groceries. 25 items. 2 items weren't bagged. I came home with 20 grocery bags! some things were triple bagged. What a waste. 

Grocery bags have gotten so thin that it sometimes take double or triple bagging things just to make sure that the item makes it inside.

[Crinklz Kat]

I can kinda understand --- in order to make them as cheap as possible because the stores want to pay as little as possible for them, they have been made so thin as to the point they cannot hold sufficient weight.  I worked retail back in the '80s when the shift from paper to plastic was happening.  I remember those early plastic bags - quite thick compared to what we have today. 

Some years ago, the county I live in instituted a 5 cent/bag "fee" (yeah, stop trying to gloss over what it really was -- A TAX!) which is split 3 cents to store, 2 cents to county.  what a scam!  I try to use reusables, but there are times when I forget to put them back in the car.  So I find myself at the store on my way home from work - and only 1 bag.  Or, the quality of those reusables is utter crap and they disintegrate after only 2 or 3 years use.  So, their cost per use ends up being higher than that 5 cents "tax".   Another scam - how is that helping the environment?

[rusty pins]

I remember working at a grocery store 40 years ago.  It was all paper bags that do degrade in landfills.  Now days it seems grocery stores pack the smallest amount of groceries in the largest number of plastic bags.

https://www.thesharpener.net/how-much-oil-production-is-used-in-plastics/

How Much Oil Does It Take To Make A Plastic Bag?

The U.S. produces 100 million plastic bags from oil each year: it takes about 430,000 gallons of oil to make one million plastic bags. Each year, 380 billion of them are handled by the government. More than one million numbers were crunched by an Indiana University statistics class. Plastic bags alone use 6 billion gallons of oil every year.

[Dubious]

In Norway the plastic bags are thick.
I have carried 4x 1,5 liter bottles in a bag.  

But mostly I use reusable bags/nets. 

Most families reuse the bags for trash.

[vvp39]

My late wife did craft shows, and she'd always joke with the customers, "Here's a designer Albertson's (or Safeway, or Walmart) bag...." So we saved them all year, and would use up several hundred in craft show season.

Now I keep a gallon-size bucket near the sink for food waste, line it with a single-use bag, and change it out every day or two, and the big kitchen waste bag only gets stuff that doesn't have any food residue. No more fruit flies in the fall...and even though the thin single-use bags don't come in any more I probably have a lifetime supply of them.

Of course the state and county banned single-use bags because, oooh, all that bad plastic. So we buy cheese wrapped in plastic, meet wrapped in plastic, potato chips/corn chips/all kinds of snack chips packaged in plastic...but heaven forbid they should leave the store in a single-use bag. Pzzzzzzzzt!
 

[Crinklz Kat]

25 minutes ago, vvp39 said:

Of course the state and county banned single-use bags because, oooh, all that bad plastic. So we buy cheese wrapped in plastic, meet wrapped in plastic, potato chips/corn chips/all kinds of snack chips packaged in plastic...but heaven forbid they should leave the store in a single-use bag. Pzzzzzzzzt!

Or that you can still get bags in the produce section!  They're just idiotic "feel good" laws that have no real impact in the long run.

[Spanky]

I miss the old paper grocery bags.   They held a lot more stuff and they were sturdy.  And, stuff like cans didn't roll all around the car, the bags held things in place. I  usually tie up the plastic bags to keep things from rolling around. 

 

The plastic bags are good for diaper disposal, though. 

[le Hollandais]

3 hours ago, Spanky said:

The plastic bags are good for diaper disposal, though. 

They're also good for containing soiled cloth diapers awaiting the laundry.

[adamhi]

I totally get your frustration with excessive grocery bags! It's not only wasteful but also not great for the environment. One way to tackle this issue is by bringing your own reusable bags when you go shopping. It's a simple step that can significantly reduce the number of plastic bags you end up with. Plus, it's an eco-friendly choice that can make a positive impact in the long run. If you're ever looking for alternative packaging solutions or reusable bags, you might want to explore options on www.interplas.com. They offer various packaging solutions that can help reduce waste and make your shopping experience more sustainable.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I discussed this elsewhere

First, the "sargasso sea"'s of plastic bags that we see are not from the US or Europe, they are from Africa and Asia

The triple-bagging is because the items are heavy and they seem to think you are going to hand-carry them, which is bizarre since 90% of people have and use cares

Still, we overuse these bags and under-utilze them. If they were 1 to 3 mil thicker, they could be used many more times. You would be surprised at how many times we used to re-use paper bags. In fact, refrigerators used to have a funny kind of pull-out small storage bin in the very tttom. This was almost invaraiably used to store paper bags. I use plastic bags for the trash. Next, grosery stores do not have the large and very large versions of plastic bag like they did with paper bags. Since I do not drive, I just take my mountaineer pack 120L capacity and just toss all the 5 bags of groceries in, usually about 10 to 15 lbs and walk the 1.8 miles home from Stop & shop, or take the bus home from Market Basket. However I am overstocked with plastic grocery bags, They are good to take with you 5 at a time for trash and garbage that you may generate when you are on the go

[Little Sherri]

They banned single-use plastic bags here (Canada), a few years after implementing mandatory fees for them. So now we all go dutifully buy boxes of plastic bags to line our trash bins with, and we either stumble through the parking lots, clutching our unbagged groceries, or, we pay the stupid tax of $1 per reusable bag or $0.20 per paper bag. Every once in a blue moon, I'll remember to bring bags with me. 

A series of articles on the topic, critical of the current government, that ran recently in a national paper were interesting, because they pointed out that the amount of petroleum products (actually usually natural gas-derived, rather than from crude oil) and energy used to make the reusable woven plastic bags were about 100X that of the "single use" thin-film bags, and that studies had shown most people used reusable woven plastic bags about 20 - 25 times before losing, discarding or burying them under waves of newer reusable bags in their bag supply chain, making them a net negative, rather than an improvement. Cotton bags were worse, because that crop is so water, fertilizer, and petroleum-powered-equipment intensive. They even pointed out that paper bags, supposedly the environmental golden boys of grocery getting, had a wide carbon footprint, once you factored in the water, energy, and processing involved, and the fact that they were the least likely to be reused. People think that they're recycled, but for the most part, that grade of paper is suitable for composting, but not re-pulping, with the end result that they ultimately go to an afterlife that involves becoming methane, and being burned, anyway. Or buried in the ground, and then becoming methane, depending on where you live. 

So the best answer is to take a sturdy backpack or tote bag with you, of a kind designed to last for years. 

1 hour ago, Little BabyDoll Christine said:

I just take my mountaineer pack 120L capacity

I have a hiking backpack that I bought 20 years ago and have used countless times, which is still in excellent condition. I may request that my early remains be packaged within it, when the time comes. 

[Little Sam]

Yes the new reusable plastic bags use more plastic, and don't get reused enough, and the old ones were really useful as trash bags for like the bedroom and bathroom etc. I think people do still use the reusable ones as trash bags, I often see them in the recycling, full of bottles and such, which means they then don't get reused. Over here they're usually called bags for life, and the idea is that when they break you can get replacements for free, but I don't think I've ever bothered to do that. Paper isn't really better because it takes up so much more space when transporting, so uses a lot more fuel, but it does at least reduce microplastics. Before they implemented the 5p (then 10p) tax over here, tesco had introduced carrier bags made with a special plastic that decomposed in 6 months, which seemed like a good idea, although in retrospect might have been a terrible one.

I have a wheelie bag / trolly thing, I bought at the beginning of lockdown, I don't drive, and grocery delivery was like a 1-month wait. My backpack didn't do the job, since my previous strategy of just picking up a few things, 3 times a week, wasn't very covid-friendly.

I think the point, rather than trying to reduce plastic in the short-term is more about changing habits, and establishing better habits in the next generation. Move people away from everything being disposable.

My backpack comes everywhere with me anyway (it has diaper changing stuff in it) and also a couple of reusable bags, umbrella, emergency phone charger, sunglasses, one of those emergency raincoats, and things for going on your shoes for walking on ice. So I'm generally prepared for most eventualities.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

48 minutes ago, Little Sherri said:

They banned single-use plastic bags here (Canada), a few years after implementing mandatory fees for them. So now we all go dutifully buy boxes of plastic bags to line our trash bins with, and we either stumble through the parking lots, clutching our unbagged groceries, or, we pay the stupid tax of $1 per reusable bag or $0.20 per paper bag. Every once in a blue moon, I'll remember to bring bags with me. 

A series of articles on the topic, critical of the current government, that ran recently in a national paper were interesting, because they pointed out that the amount of petroleum products (actually usually natural gas-derived, rather than from crude oil) and energy used to make the reusable woven plastic bags were about 100X that of the "single use" thin-film bags, and that studies had shown most people used reusable woven plastic bags about 20 - 25 times before losing, discarding or burying them under waves of newer reusable bags in their bag supply chain, making them a net negative, rather than an improvement. Cotton bags were worse, because that crop is so water, fertilizer, and petroleum-powered-equipment intensive. They even pointed out that paper bags, supposedly the environmental golden boys of grocery getting, had a wide carbon footprint, once you factored in the water, energy, and processing involved, and the fact that they were the least likely to be reused. People think that they're recycled, but for the most part, that grade of paper is suitable for composting, but not re-pulping, with the end result that they ultimately go to an afterlife that involves becoming methane, and being burned, anyway. Or buried in the ground, and then becoming methane, depending on where you live. 

So the best answer is to take a sturdy backpack or tote bag with you, of a kind designed to last for years. 

I have a hiking backpack that I bought 20 years ago and have used countless times, which is still in excellent condition. I may request that my early remains be packaged within it, when the time comes. 

From what I've observed over the past 50 years, the eco's are overwhelmingly either political power-lusters or malcontnets. Hey Greta: How come we're still here? When you look at the total size, mass, and complexity of the earth, their theories are over-simplification and the amounts they tout as apocolyptic are nearly infinitesimal. They are city folks who do not even see 90% of the world except as fly-over. Living in relatively close quarters, the are unaware of the vast stretches that are unsettled or where you can have miles, or large fractions of miles between neighbors. When last I looked, there were 415.76 parts per million of CO2. Water vapor, which is about 1.1 or 2 times the efficient greenhouse gas of CO1 is present be4tween 10 and 10,000 parts per million, which is, on average more than 10 times as present as CO2 in the atmosphere. Given that the planet is 70% water. Do you know what you're going to do about that? Squat! And the greenhouse effect is a distant 4th behind 400+ year sunspot cycles, volcanic activities and jetstream/oceanic current effects. All of which have been well-understood for  over 40 years. And the total human contribution to the CO2 presence is about 7% about 3 of which, at most, can be attributed to industrial activity

Also, why do they have to make reusable bags out of woven plastic or matierial? Just make what you are using thicker and have the grocery stores include two larger sizes, The ones they use now would be just medium sized in  the old paper bag system of 50 years ago

[ValentinesStuff]

6 hours ago, Little BabyDoll Christine said:

I discussed this elsewhere

The triple-bagging is because the items are heavy and they seem to think you are going to hand-carry them, which is bizarre since 90% of people have and use cares

Since I am the original poster, I'll explain the triple bagging. The item was a package of ground beef. It was placed in a bag and wrapped up, fairly standard. This was then placed into a second bagalong with another item. This bag with two items was then put into a third bag for some unknown reason. 

 

I now very rarely use a cashier, and often stop them from double bagging items. I also very rarely have trouble with the bags ripping, usually it's because the bag was torn during manufacture. I also put far more items into a bag than any cashier I've seen.

[Crinklz Kat]

I've already responded here back when the thread was originally opened... but I'll add a few more cents.

I do have a pile of reusable bags, but many times, as they end up in the house, they don't end up back out in the car for when I need them next.  I typically do much of my shopping on my way home from work.  So if I don't have the bags, then I have to fork out the "tax" to get some at the store.  As far as those reusable bags - they ain't as durable as some would want you to believe.  I've had one set basically disintegrate.  The plastic deteriorated so badly that handles just tore in half or putting something with a "sharp" corner literally tore the side open.   I lost 1/2 of that purchase.  Others the sewn seams just start unraveling. 

As far as paper, one store chain here did switch back to the classic bags.  They don't charge for them either.  I don't shop there much, but I do save those bags.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

2 hours ago, ValentinesStuff said:

Since I am the original poster, I'll explain the triple bagging. The item was a package of ground beef. It was placed in a bag and wrapped up, fairly standard. This was then placed into a second bagalong with another item. This bag with two items was then put into a third bag for some unknown reason. 

 

I now very rarely use a cashier, and often stop them from double bagging items. I also very rarely have trouble with the bags ripping, usually it's because the bag was torn during manufacture. I also put far more items into a bag than any cashier I've seen.

I have no choice about using a cashier. If I had one, I would use the self-service aisle