I told my doctor about incontinent desires, diapers, and I asked her for help to get surgery.

[saltedcaramel64]

This might sound a little odd but, have you considered talking to Drs and surgeons in Mexico about this?  In America I think a lot of surgeons or Drs would be afraid of getting sued and losing their license.  I think in Mexico you could find a less scrupulous Dr.

[bobbyc]

Unfortunately the doctor did make a lot of valid arguments.  I started reading up on the different procedures to disable the sphincters and with both the mesh as well as the sphincterotomy there are complications and need for follow-up a few years down the line.  Both dealing with urinary retention.  For my body, as much as I would like an "open drain" type of incontinence having to deal with greater problems down the line makes it seem not worth it.  

On a side-note, Ferix, have you thought about why you haven't achieved your desired results through untraining where others have?  Do you think it is more to do with mental issues?  Or physical?  Do you personally know others who have the exact results that you are looking for?  

[dlnoir]

Hi Ferix,

I’ve been reading and following your story ever since you started the topic with great interest as I share your desire. I am sorry to hear you’ve met another road block on the other hand it doesn’t really surprise me, however unfortunate I kind of expected something like this to happen, again. Do have to say I think it is weird they worry so much about your physical wellbeing, which is a good thing needless to say, but your personal wellbeing is so much bigger than just your physical state of health. It is also about your mental wellbeing and so far it seems they forget that or at least make it less important. Especially the psychiatrist whom told you “do no harm” missed the point completely if you’d ask me, without giving too much explanation. He or she should know how much people can suffer from BIID in any which form it may occur. Same thing goes for the recommendation to use catheters to achieve your goal, she should know an open line in your diaper is almost like putting a gun against your head as it comes to developing a UTI, so weird.

Do have to say the one point the surgeon brought up about urine retention due to bladder atrophy  in the long run sounds more than valid to me. That is something I never thought about myself. Your prostate keeps growing and even healthy men past the age of 50 might develop issues with urine retention because the prostate closes up the Urethra.

I do not have the guts to head down the same road as you do, reach out to get surgery in order to achieve incontinence. I am pretty sure here in the Netherlands they have the same “do no harm” approach as you encountered in the US. I suppose I will continue to use the stents I make, for they do exactly what I want them to do and truth is over the 15 years of using them I never had a UTI so why discontinue, I count my blessings for sure but……………………...

The one thing that still bugs me the method I am using brings it up to let’s say a 85% realistic incontinence situation and for most of the time that is enough to feel comfortable and in contact with myself. But those remaining 15 % on a bad day can cause havoc in my mental wellbeing and why that happens only God knows, for I have no clue. The only thing I know how pathetic it may sound it happens, especially in the winter.  

Anyway I hope you’ll find the strength to keep going to fulfil your heart’s desire and I hope you’ll find a surgeon that will work with you. And I hope you’ll keep sharing your story.

 

[PlstkBakdnghtnday]

Sounds like your surgeon was a cunt. Probably a Bible thumper who extended her personal beliefs into her work. As someone who works around doctors all day, I can tell you they're not as perfect as they pretend to be. A lot of times they struggle with simple tasks. For the most part they seem to know what's best and that's what we're going to do because I talked to him for 10 minutes. Don't give a shit that I've been having to manage some asshole's behavior with threats of restraint, loss of phone calls, TV, or time in a holding cell. Some tears and sweet words have the doctors putting in orders for snacks, extra meal portions, and even extra pain meds to the delight of some scumbag criminal with a heroine addiction. 

[saltedcaramel64]

Any new updates @Ferix?  Are you giving up or looking for a new surgeon?

[~Brian~]

On 6/18/2021 at 11:13 AM, Elbs said:

It's because incontinence is considered a disability, and disabilities are stereotyped as a horrible tragedy that no one could ever enjoy or even be fine with.

Same reason people say they're sorry when I say I'm autistic, even though I like being autistic and I'm proud of the kind of mind I have.

@Elbs

Speaking as a man with a disability myself, I can tell you that while some people think of a disability as "Tragic" or "Horrible," It will depend on the severity of the disability, and the level of functioning they have.  Incontinence is a disability, and can be caused by the disability itself, or could be a condition that is a partner of the disability.

I have had friends that are autistic, and like CP, there are variations of severity, from mild to moderate, to Severe or Profound.  I have found that if you have the right supports and a few good friends, you can live a very long life, and function well.  I think that when people say that they are "sorry" that we have the disabilities we have, they mean well - I mean, having CP is all I know, and I would not change one thing about the life I have lived so far:  Sometimes I wish that I could do things that I cannot, but I look at it this way:  God made me the way I am for a REASON, and I feel I am doing what I love to do, and that by doing so, I am helping people - this also includes helping people understand that even though you have a disability, you find ways to cope and deal with it.  There are times your disability can get you down, like when I have pain in legs, arms, back, neck, etc, and that happens.

I always say "I have a disability, but it does NOT have ME."  Just because a person has autism, does NOT mean that they are unable to function, but in my mind, it just means that in order to function, they may have to find different ways to do this:  I have 2 friends that are NONVERBAL and autistic, and while they do not speak, they are using augmentative communication devices to communicate.  They BOTH use Ipads that are set up specifically for their use, and they have gained the ability of communication due to the work of their support teams, their parents, and their school:  and guess what?  They GRADUATED this year, and the future looks BRIGHT for them - I am not sure what they will do, but because of loving, caring, supportive individuals they have the CHANCE and they have the opportunity to do to their own levels.

NEVER NEVER should anyone think that people that have a disability can't live their life to the fullest, and enjoy it.  @ElbsYou have your own challenges and experiences that NO ONE will EVER take away from you, and for each challenge, you find ways to meet is, greet it, and with HARD work, BEAT it:  By all means, be PROUD of who you are, what you have done, and the life you lead - as they say, you only live ONCE, so live your life to its FULL POTENTIAL.  There is nothing to be "sorry" for, and as my pastor says "God does not give a person a challenge that He does not think you can handle."

I use that advice when I have a challenge meet me, and i also understand that there are times when it gets rough, but I always TRY to do the best I can, because that is all I can do:  I, like you, like my life, and am proud of what I have done.

Good Luck

Brian 

[~Brian~]

On 7/21/2021 at 6:10 AM, saltedcaramel64 said:

This might sound a little odd but, have you considered talking to Drs and surgeons in Mexico about this?  In America I think a lot of surgeons or Drs would be afraid of getting sued and losing their license.  I think in Mexico you could find a less scrupulous Dr.

@saltedcaramel64

While doing surgical procedures in Mexico is an option of course, you should be mindful that there are doctors who may not have the medical knowledge to do what is requested.  I would also remind you that sometimes problems can develop Post Op - You should always be on alert for this.  Healthcare that is provided in other countries may NOT be on the same level that is provided in the USA, although it may be better in some places.

Most Doctors I have dealt with would probably NOT want to try an operation like this, because of the complexity, the fear of hurting someone, getting sued, or losing their medical license(s).  Case in Point:  I tried to get my school loans "forgiven" by asking my doctor to certify me 'totally and permanently disabled" for purposes of Loan Discharge:  The doctor was frank in telling me that he did not feel comfortable doing so, because he did not consider me "TPD".  I RESPECT him for his decision, and know that the reason he would NOT do it, is because it would mean that I could NOT work EVER again, and that would bring a whole host of issues, and his name would be the one on the paperwork, and he did not feel he could do it.

Years later, however, when my Dad retired, within 6-8 months, the Social Security Administration did what he could not do:  They CERTIFIED me disabled, and in 7 years or so, ALL loan obligations were eliminated.  Being on SSDI made that possible, and I didn't need medical certification, because the SSA did that:  BUT:  I can NOT return to academia:  Returning to school would REINSTATE the obligations, and let me tell you:  in the days where jobs are hard to find, and with my advancing age, I could NEVER repay the amounts i owe:  I am happy I was able to get my A.S and B.S. - I have MET my goal, and while the ONLY place I use my degree status in a signature is my primary email, I am PROUD of these:  They are like GOLD for me, and I would NEVER trade that experience for anything:  Made me a better man

Brian

 

[saltedcaramel64]

On 8/3/2021 at 10:33 AM, ~Brian~ said:

@saltedcaramel64

While doing surgical procedures in Mexico is an option of course, you should be mindful that there are doctors who may not have the medical knowledge to do what is requested.  I would also remind you that sometimes problems can develop Post Op - You should always be on alert for this.  Healthcare that is provided in other countries may NOT be on the same level that is provided in the USA, although it may be better in some places.

Most Doctors I have dealt with would probably NOT want to try an operation like this, because of the complexity, the fear of hurting someone, getting sued, or losing their medical license(s).  Case in Point:  I tried to get my school loans "forgiven" by asking my doctor to certify me 'totally and permanently disabled" for purposes of Loan Discharge:  The doctor was frank in telling me that he did not feel comfortable doing so, because he did not consider me "TPD".  I RESPECT him for his decision, and know that the reason he would NOT do it, is because it would mean that I could NOT work EVER again, and that would bring a whole host of issues, and his name would be the one on the paperwork, and he did not feel he could do it.

Years later, however, when my Dad retired, within 6-8 months, the Social Security Administration did what he could not do:  They CERTIFIED me disabled, and in 7 years or so, ALL loan obligations were eliminated.  Being on SSDI made that possible, and I didn't need medical certification, because the SSA did that:  BUT:  I can NOT return to academia:  Returning to school would REINSTATE the obligations, and let me tell you:  in the days where jobs are hard to find, and with my advancing age, I could NEVER repay the amounts i owe:  I am happy I was able to get my A.S and B.S. - I have MET my goal, and while the ONLY place I use my degree status in a signature is my primary email, I am PROUD of these:  They are like GOLD for me, and I would NEVER trade that experience for anything:  Made me a better man

Brian

 

I seriously doubt he will get a licensed Dr in the USA to do this surgery for him.  I think Drs will be happy to talk to him and charge for that experience, but Id bet 100 American dollars none would risk the liability.  Most would consider this to be doing harm to someone mentally ill.  I would also assume many Drs would be concerned about getting sued and losing their license for malpractice.  Most wouldnt even touch this situation with a 10 foot pole.

So the only option is the risky option of foreign medicine.  In places where regulation is loose.  Id suggest Mexico or even China.  But Brian, you are totally correct, the risk for complication, robbery or outright death are significantly higher.

So how bad does @Ferix want it?  Would accepting those risks for incontinence indicate mental illness and self mutilation? Or is it a bold and courageous step for an individual to live their life free and how they choose?

Personally Im interested in how far this goes.  I just hope Mr Ferix hasn't gotten himself locked up in the mental health wing of the hospital.  For constantly giving himself infections and taking dog pills he bought online to treat them.  Drs will see that as red flags.

[littlecait]

Re: your botox question. I have OAB and some retention so have been having bladder botox. The Dr is right about the retention issue with botox. After the first dose, I had to self-cath because I couldn't urinate at all, for over 3 months. Just had the 2nd dose and got a UTI because of the retention issue. The last thing I have is free-flow! I can urinate this time but it comes out in little streams and I have to push a lot to get that out. My bladder feels full most of the time. I think botox would completely defeat your purpose. It paralyses everything down there. I take Flo-max, which is for an enlarged prostate, but is used off-label for women who have retention- it does very little to help. Granted, I am a female so maybe botox can work slightly differently for males but I have read about males having the same problems as me. I'd leave botox alone, if I was looking for the same result as you because I think that you will be very disappointed.

[Ferix]

There's not a whole lot to update.

 

I still experience terrible incontinence dysphoria and I'm very motivated to find a way to achieve incontinence. I haven't done any stent play since my last infection; I don't plan on trying stents again until I make a stainless steel stent or have someone make one for me at some point. Until then, I am trying my hardest to keep myself distracted from my incontinence dysphoria. Though, I can't say with absolute certainty that I will not use stents before then, as I know that when the dysphoria is bad, stents are the only way I have found that truly alleviates the dysphoria.

 

I do plan on returning to my urologist to go over what the surgeon said and to see if there's any other options. However, it will likely be a while before I make the appointment: I simply have too much on my plate right now.

 

I don't need to look for surgeons outside of the country as I'm not done looking for surgeons within the country. Even still, if what the surgeon says is true that there is urine retention if the prostate is left in, then I don't want to do surgery because that could be life threatening if I don't also have the prostate removed.

 

Lately, I've had lots of distractions from my dysphoria. Since my visit with the surgeon, I have been laser focused on developing my business and pushing out commissions. I'm getting so much attention, I recently filled up on commissions in under 15 minutes before I had to close. I'm also networking with some amazing people behind the scenes and I'm getting a lot of encouragement and support, even people interested in investing in me and my company. I have to come through for me and for them.

 

Starting my business has been the best thing that's ever happened to my career so I want to make sure I do it right, which means I have to prioritize the business. Once I've worked through a few business priorities, I'll have the bandwidth to go back to the urologist and also do some research about building stainless steel stents. When that happens, I'll definitely be reporting it here.

 

[InD]

This has been quite an interesting thread to say the least.  I too went down this road a few years ago with no satisfactory outcome.  I even had the "bonus" of having experienced true incontinence after I broke my back for a period of time.  So I could say that "Yes I have experienced this, and want it fully".  Didn't matter at all.  

For now I've stuck with using a stent 24/7.  I've been doing that for just over three years now.  I have been using catheters for 22 years before the stent with multiple UTIs.  Thankfully I've only had one with the stent.

With regards to the "do no harm" I got the same answer and replied with isn't risking UTIs and lost home made "stents" a form of harm that should be avoided if possible?  Got no reasonable reply.  

One thing I saw mentioned in this thread I want to refute.  A  Foley catheter will not cause incontinence.  I've had a stent in place for over three years (swapping them out as required of course).  My current stent with the metal insert has been in use for over a year now.  At it's widest point it is 9.5mm.  This is .5mm away from 30fr.  When the stent is out I still have perfect continence.  If a large bore tube through both sphincters was going to work, it would have by now..

It's a shame we can't exhibit full control over our bodies at the point.  Maybe someday in the future.

ps.  I detest the "be thankful you have continence, I don't and "you don't know how good you have it" types.  Uggggh!  I had to deal with them in the stent thread too.  Sorry about your luck, but you are not me.  What you want has nothing to do with my desires.  These people would never go into a trans thread and say "you want to be a guy? you have no idea how horrible it is to be one".  It's shaming pure and simple. To those that make those comments (over and over), fuck off!

 

[austmo]

Has anyone ever investigated the possibility to have a external urethral sphincter dilation performed? An alternative to sphincterectomy.

[Ferix]

On 4/8/2022 at 10:11 AM, austmo said:

Has anyone ever investigated the possibility to have a external urethral sphincter dilation performed? An alternative to sphincterectomy.

From my understanding, dilation of the sphincters could cause urine blockage as the sphincters would be stuck shut with scar tissue.

[Kawaharu]

That’s just so wrong because what he wants to do amounts to trivializing those who are actually incontinent and disabled. 

[Ferix]

35 minutes ago, Kawaharu said:

That’s just so wrong because what he wants to do amounts to trivializing those who are actually incontinent and disabled. 

Nope. It's definitely not what I'm doing.

[Kawaharu]

14 minutes ago, Ferix said:

Nope. It's definitely not what I'm doing.

It’s wrong and it’s trivializing those who are disabled and incontinent. 

[Ferix]

17 minutes ago, Kawaharu said:

It’s wrong and it’s trivializing those who are disabled and incontinent. 

No, it's not.

[Kawaharu]

5 minutes ago, Ferix said:

No, it's not.

Yes it is and it’s considered appropriation of another culture or condition. It’s also demeaning towards disabled people who have to wear diapers. And people like you make it harder for incontinent and disabled people to live. 

[Ferix]

8 minutes ago, Kawaharu said:

Yes it is and it’s considered appropriation of another culture or condition. It’s also demeaning towards disabled people who have to wear diapers. And people like you make it harder for incontinent and disabled people to live. 

No need to assume facts not in evidence; You're vague statements are convincing no one here in "incontinence desires". I've done nothing to make it harder for incontinent and disabled people to live.

I hope you learn to accept that other people have different life journeys than yours. Have a good day!

[Kawaharu]

10 hours ago, Ferix said:

No need to assume facts not in evidence; You're vague statements are convincing no one here in "incontinence desires". I've done nothing to make it harder for incontinent and disabled people to live.

I hope you learn to accept that other people have different life journeys than yours. Have a good day!

Stop appropriating other people's disability 

[Ferix]

17 minutes ago, Kawaharu said:

Stop appropriating other people's disability 

I'm not.

[oznl]

26 minutes ago, Kawaharu said:

Stop appropriating other people's disability 

If you have some rationale to substantiate that kind of claim it I’d be interested to try to understand but not here as that would be hijacking @Ferix's rather interesting thread. 

Can I suggest you posit your theories somewhere else and we'll debate them there (assuming these ideas are not somehow beyond contestability  ? )

[Ferix]

43 minutes ago, oznl said:

If you have some rationale to substantiate that kind of claim it I’d be interested to try to understand but not here as that would be hijacking @Ferix's rather interesting thread. 

Can I suggest you posit your theories somewhere else and we'll debate them there (assuming these ideas are not somehow beyond contestability  ? )

It can happen here too. There's plenty of others that have expressed their opinions in this thread.

 

I'm always open to understand other people's perspective but it seems that @Kawaharu doesn't want to understand mine. She's had plenty of opportunity to ask questions or elaborate her position to back up her claims but only chooses to make broad accusatory statements, and then repeat them in this thread and in another.

 

To accuse me of appropriating other people's disability or making it difficult for incontinent or disabled people to live is not what I'm about--it's quite the opposite.

 

As I've said in this thread, I worked 15 years in the medical field as an EMT helping the sick and disabled. My current career is running a business making beautiful cloth diapers and ABDL gear. Every part about me is about helping others be themselves and I'm passionate about diapers.

 

On top of that, it's no easy feat to want to be incontinent. No one wants that. I don't understand it myself but the best thing I ever did was accept that I have these desires and to allow myself to live like I'm incontinent. I have been diapered 24/7 for the past 5 years because of these desires.

 

Will @Kawaharu respond in a meaningful way? I will wait and see.

[incondl]

3 hours ago, Kawaharu said:

Stop appropriating other people's disability 

Isn’t the extremely powerful desire to become incontinent a disability of some sort? 

[Babyqtboy]

38 minutes ago, incondl said:

Isn’t the extremely powerful desire to become incontinent a disability of some sort? 

According to the DSM V, it’s a mental disorder that falls under body dysmorphia. CBT could treat the underlying issues but ultimately the desires will always be there. The goal of therapy at this point would be to get the person to learn how to live with these desires in a healthy and productive way