Is the road to transgender dignity paved with adult diapers

[DailyDi]

Is the road to transgender dignity paved with adult diapers

By Byrgen Finkelman on November 20, 2015 at 12:28 AM

[DiapermanAl]

If they had the full sex change yes id say they can use the ladies room. Another alternative would be the family rooms when available.

[warpiper]

39 minutes ago, DiapermanAl said:

If they had the full sex change yes id say they can use the ladies room. Another alternative would be the family rooms when available.

That's a dangerous road to travel there.

[Elfy]

52 minutes ago, DiapermanAl said:

If they had the full sex change yes id say they can use the ladies room. Another alternative would be the family rooms when available.

And for TG people who don't have the operation? Or before the operation?

There is this unjustified fear that allowing TG people to use the correct bathroom would create a problem with perverts saying they are TG just to snoop on girls when that just isn't a reality. Thousands of TG women and men are walking a minefield every time they need to use the bathroom just because of a worry that a few non-TG who may be perverts will use it as an excuse.

This is actually a huge issue for TG people who do risk a lot of things just to go to the bathroom. A MtF person for instance, they go in the female bathroom and they risk being labeled a pervert, being kicked out of wherever they are. Go into the male bathroom and there is a fear of violence. Not to mention the humiliation at having your passport, medical records, etc all say female but being told you have to use the other genders bathroom still.

Whether you have a penis or vagina shouldn't be the be all and end all of which bathroom you visit.

I don't mean to be confrontational or aggressive here but yesterday was TG day of remembrance. Things like the "bathroom problem" seems small to other people but it is a bigger issue for TG people. I have an anxiety about being in public and not being able to find a bathroom when needed, a pretty bad anxiety about it, enough that if I'm not sure about bathrooms I will likely not go to wherever it is I need to go. So I feel like I sort of feel the pain in worrying about bathrooms when out when there should be no worry.

As an aside, here is something a friend of mine posted on their wall yesterday for the remembrance day:

"I know there's some people who won't be a "fan" of this post, but it bears repeating. The scary stats that transgenders face are horrifying. Did you know a transgender woman has a 1 in 12 change of being murdered for their identity? Research is starting to show as many as 41% of the transgender population has attempted suicide at least once. 80% of transgender students report that they feel "unsafe on a daily basis" because of their gender expression.

Transgender Day of Remembrance, which occurs annually on November 20, is a day to memorialize those who have been killed as a result of transphobia and to bring attention to the continued struggle endured by the transgender community. No matter what your beliefs, none of those things are OK. None of these stats are OK."

My fiance wears nappies out if she thinks she will be away from a private bathroom (ie. The house or a friends house) for a while. She is ABDL which softens the blow but is still an indignity, and it is a much worse indignity for all the TG people who aren't ABDL that wearing nappies is considered a real alternative to just being able to use the bathroom like everyone else.

[DiapermanAl]

Good post warpiper and elfking. Its the vanilla folks who wouldnt go for it. My point was if they made the full transformation then the law should not bother them IMO. Heck ive used the ladys room in an emergency when the mens room was full or locked.

[Rachel Emily]

6 hours ago, DailyDi said:

Is the road to transgender dignity paved with adult diapers

By Byrgen Finkelman on November 20, 2015 at 12:28 AM

[Dirty Diaper/Maxipad Lover]

I'm going to be blunt: If I had my way we'd take the stupid male/female signs off the bathroom doors, just label them "bathroom," and call it a day. This is the smart thing to do, but the problem is always going to be the narrow-minded idiot population that's worried about what set of parts is in the stall/urinal next to them. A practical solution that would just anger the transgender community (note the emphasis on the word "gender") would be to just have the current bathroom designations reflect a person's biological sex rather than their gender. Before the mid-90's things like standardized tests would frequently identify a person's "sex" and not their "gender," as would various other forms and similar paperwork, so this concept wouldn't be entirely unprecedented. (The reason the tests and forms were changed is that when you give a room full of third-graders papers with the word "sex" on it, they snicker, and the older those people get, the more outrageous the sophomoric humor becomes, which is how "sex" got replaced with "gender" in areas where it was previously a distinction without a difference to most people.) While this would fly, and would technically fix the "problem," it would justifiably anger transgendered people who hadn't undergone a full transition, and isn't as good as my first solution of just having generic "bathrooms" for everyone.

Also, how do you even enforce whats on the signs for bathrooms if you're not doing it by sex instead of gender? While I don't think a bunch of people are automatically going to pretend to be transgendered just to use the other restroom, I'm sure that there are at least a handful of people who will in any given town, which raises the question of how would you 1) prove that they're not transgendered, and 2) prove that they had some nefarious purpose for doing so and didn't just need to pee quickly and use the room for the opposite gender for pure efficiency? The simple fact is that you can't prove it without stepping on someone's rights as long as "gender" specific (rather than "sex" specific) bathrooms exist, which furthers my initial argument to just have bathrooms with no gender designations. Right now I don't care who walks into the "men's" room since my goal is to pee and get the hell as far from it as possible. However, if we're not going to enforce what's on the sign, why bother to even have it? I've been in buildings where the ladies room is literally within spitting distance of me, but the men's room is all the way on the other side of the building down a winding hall that requires a decent trek to get too. There are times when I've been in said building where I would have killed to have been able to just pee in the ladies room without having to run to the men's room to avoid peeing my pants because of the idiotic layout of the place. I won't even get into how my girlfriend hated having to get a condom out of a dispenser in the ladies room (formerly the men's room,) because there wasn't one in the men's room (formerly the ladies room,) in one building at college. Oh, and right when they "flipped" the rooms people mistakenly nearly went into the "wrong" room for about a week thanks to muscle memory, but nobody assumed nefarious intentions on behalf of anyone other than the people who decided to flip the rooms in the first place. (The nefarious intention being to confuse everyone in the building.) I'm all for doing away with gender specific restrooms, but I doubt I'm going to be able to drag the mouth-breathers around to this way of thinking anytime soon.

Actually, Lyndon Johnson is a great example of someone who knew how to use a bathroom efficiently. As President he was known for holding meets and continuing them while using the bathroom. When people were uncomfortable with this, he would usually say something to the effect of "what, are you afraid of Jumbo," ("Jumbo" being the nickname for his penis,) and then proceed to continue peeing and/or pooping while he continued his meeting. Eventually people got used to this and the shock wore off. Maybe that's what's needed here, everyone would be "shocked" to do away with gender specific restrooms at first, and then once that shock wore off it would be no big deal.

[Elfy]

I would support just gender neutral bathrooms... Or having a gender neutral option so you would have male, female and everyone bathroom. The problem with that plan would be the cost in money and space that most places can't afford.

An even bigger problem would be the public reaction. Most people have such a hangup about bathrooms and things that most wouldn't even consider that an option.

I think the above are the only way you would make most people from both groups happy but I don't think either of them could happen.

[BabyTara]

I had a friend joke on Facebook about making restrooms based on what you will be doing in there,

[Bettypooh]

There are quite a few TS's who are unable to have GRS because of physical issues so they life Transitioned as-is. Is there something wrong with that? Biological sex?- Tell that to the intersexed who have both a penis and a vagina; do they get to use both or neither because of how they were born? And on that, what of the 32 common chromosonal differences where someone's apparent sex is an anomaly according to their chromosome makeup? How about crossdressers who are heterosexual but fully appear to be a different gender sometimes? Since they completely look the part it's insane to ask them to go elsewhere.

[lil_angel]

As everyone here is aware, I am currently in the middle of my transition which means there are times I present as male and times I present as female.

[dlsafrica]

There are a growing number of places (University of Cape Town is one) that have gender neutral toilets, with the specification that anyone can use them.

[Dubious]

Whats the point in separating toilets for men and women?

Its not like they would/should go around nude and maybe then the queue to the ladies toilet wont be so long as they wont be in there forever

I use whatever toilet is free

[lil_angel]

7 hours ago, dlsafrica said:

There are a growing number of places (University of Cape Town is one) that have gender neutral toilets, with the specification that anyone can use them.

The only problem here is that most of the places that do have gender neutral toilets make them single occupant which isn't always a practical solution depending on where it is.

[Rachel Emily]

The argument I keep hearing is that if restrooms are unisex, then men will rape women in the restrooms. Well, can't they do that now? I mean, any man who goes so far as to rape a woman isn't likely to care that he's breaking the law by walking into the women's restroom.

[Darkfinn]

My take on this.

When out in public the only way people have to judge you is your appearance. If you LOOK the part of a female then you shouldn't have a problem going to the ladies' room. Now, if you are TG and can't successfully pull off the look enough to pass as your gender of choice in public then you don't need to be going out in the first place.

[littlekat]

In a good few parts of scotland including the small town I grew up in it was always use the bathroom according to how you are dressed at the time. Like there was a small working class pub I remember that one of the guys who went there occasionally showed up dressed as a woman and used the female toilets, but everyone respected him in his female form and made sure to address and treat him according to the gender he was representing at the time.
I think that's the right way to do it, no woman ever saw him as a threat in the ladies room and no man batted an eye at this.
The same happens in aberdeen a lot which is weirdly a lot more backwards than the rougher areas I grew up in but even here the same rule applies and I've never seen or heard anyone have issue with it yet.

[Elfy]

31 minutes ago, Darkfinn said:

My take on this.

When out in public the only way people have to judge you is your appearance. If you LOOK the part of a female then you shouldn't have a problem going to the ladies' room. Now, if you are TG and can't successfully pull off the look enough to pass as your gender of choice in public then you don't need to be going out in the first place.

Because everything is all about looks right? At what point is the threshold between passing and not passing? And who judges that?

Also saying you shouldn't go out if you can't pass is really shallow. TG people usually require 1-2 years real world experience before they are even considered for hormones, which mean that they have to go out and make do the best they can. Even then changes on hormones take time. You want all TG people to sit at home all day until they successfully "pass"?

[littlekat]

Just now, Elfking said:

Sounds like a good thing going there, but all it takes is one woman having a problem with it and making a complaint and suddenly there is a lot of trouble.

Yeah, but gladly it's hard to find someone like that here. I know there was one English woman that made a complaint after seeing him go into the bathroom but everyone came to his defence and she backed down, but of course that was a small place where everyone knew each other. I don't know what it would be like in a larger place.

[ForbiddenFruit]

What confounds this further is that - or so I'm told - hormone replacement therapy for trans women can make you need to pee more often. Like, a LOT more often.

14 hours ago, Darkfinn said:

My take on this.

When out in public the only way people have to judge you is your appearance. If you LOOK the part of a female then you shouldn't have a problem going to the ladies' room. Now, if you are TG and can't successfully pull off the look enough to pass as your gender of choice in public then you don't need to be going out in the first place.

I offer my sincerest apologies for needing to buy groceries, eat, visit friends, go to class, have fresh air, exercise, and have a functional life.

[lil_angel]

20 hours ago, Darkfinn said:

My take on this.

When out in public the only way people have to judge you is your appearance. If you LOOK the part of a female then you shouldn't have a problem going to the ladies' room. Now, if you are TG and can't successfully pull off the look enough to pass as your gender of choice in public then you don't need to be going out in the first place.

I normally wouldn't respond to a post like this, but in this case I can't help it....This is the most ignorant statement about trans people I've ever heard and is the root of the problem with why trans people need to be considered a protective class. I don't care if a person looks like a frog or a dog etc, they have the right to be in public and to identify as anything they wish.

[Bettypooh]

Amen this And, pray tell, how do you know how well you pass until you do it and how do you learn to do it without trying? There's a lot more to 'passing' than looks and there's only a scant handful of very observant people who have learned to spot the few clues left after a total and otherwise complete transition with passing. And even those clues are not infallible, just nearly so. No I won't share them but I will say they aren't where you are looking or thinking about I achieved a passable look fairly quickly but it took 2 more years before the rest came to me and even then I wouldn't claim more than 95%, just that I was so close the remaining 5% weren't certain enough to say or do anything

Read my siggy- the part about you're not being free if you're only free to be like everyone else- and understand what that really means. It is quoted from a TG who had

[dmavn]

And yet... One of the most disgusting things I have to deal with when going in male bathrooms are the multitude of them that won't use the urinal or lift the seat and just pee all over everything. I am incontinent and there are plenty of times where I am straining to keep from messing myself that taking the time to clean the toilet would put me over the top. I really wouldn't wish male hygiene practices on the ladies out there..

[Hookedondiapers]

14 hours ago, dmavn said:

And yet... One of the most disgusting things I have to deal with when going in male bathrooms are the multitude of them that won't use the urinal or lift the seat and just pee all over everything. I am incontinent and there are plenty of times where I am straining to keep from messing myself that taking the time to clean the toilet would put me over the top. I really wouldn't wish male hygiene practices on the ladies out there..

Women can be just as bad or worse.

[Bettypooh]

The lack of sanitary concern for the next person who needs that facility is appalling and a statement of sorts about what our societies are truly like at heart The standard should be similar to the sign posted in the Mess Hall of the USAF Academy which says "You will keep this floor clean enough to eat off of or you will". It puts the responsibility squarely where it belongs- on everyone personally- with no allowance for exception. The result is everyone doing the right thing because it benefits them personally and as a whole, and AFAIK nobody has had to eat off of that floor yet

Bettypooh