Getting Surgery in Mexico

[MinnesotaWriter]

Last post on this topic. Otherwise, I'm just going to get really annoyed.

17 minutes ago, padded-nightly said:

Exactly this. It's not "any objective standard," it's "in your opinion." Stop judging people.

I'm not judging Reddy. I have said nothing negative about him as a person. I have, however, been critical of a decision he is making. There is a difference. Attacking a person is wrong. Criticizing or debating an idea is perfectly acceptable. And the suggestion that people's ideas should always be free from being criticized is laughably wrong.

In fact, I have said both that I support his legal right to make the decision and that it would be far better for him to actually properly prepare for this life-altering event by doing a trial run to fully understand what he is getting himself into. And that I would be a lot more supportive of his choice if he were to show he had thought it out and prepared for it properly.

--

Finally, I do have a question for you @padded-nightly

Reddy is going to have an irreversible surgery that will forever alter his life. Despite this, he is refusing to engage in the basic due diligence of doing a trial run to fully understand how this decision will impact him.

How in the world is this not a foolish decision? 

[Reddy]

7 minutes ago, MinnesotaWriter said:

Last post on this topic. Otherwise, I'm just going to get really annoyed.

I'm not judging Reddy. I have said nothing negative about him as a person. I have, however, been critical of a decision he is making. There is a difference. Attacking a person is wrong. Criticizing or debating an idea is perfectly acceptable. And the suggestion that people's ideas should always be free from being criticized is wrong.

In fact, I have said both that I support his legal right to make the decision and that it would be far better for him to actually properly prepare for this life-altering event by doing a trial run to fully understand what he is getting himself into. And that I would be a lot more supportive of his choice if he were to show he had thought it out and prepared for it properly.

--

Finally, I do have a question for you @padded-nightly

Reddy is going to have an irreversible surgery that will forever alter his life. Despite this, he is refusing to engage in the basic due diligence of doing a trial run to fully understand how this decision will impact him.

How in the world is this not a foolish decision? 

The reason it's not foolish is because I already know I like diapers and want to be incontinent.  I wanted to be incontinent for years and years so it has been a long time thinking about it.  So I think I know what I want.  So personally I just don't need to wear diapers right now for no reason when it would feel awkward doing that.  I have done my time already.

[Elfy]

You can think it is a foolish decision, in many ways it is since having a surgery you don't need to "disable" yourself would be foolish to a lot of people, however it is a decision Reddy is free to make. I don't know if he'll regret it, you don't know if he'll regret and, quite frankly, HE doesn't know if he'll regret it but it is his body and his decision at the end of the day.

Many people would make similar arguments about my wife's gender reassignment surgery. It is irreversible and major. There was  reasonably high chance of complications that she had to weigh up before putting hre name down, some of which would've been very difficult to live with. At the end of the day she went for it because it was important to her. From an outsiders "objective" point of view, if looked at from the perspective of a robot with no understanding of emotion, you could say that surgery was foolish as well and yet it has improved her quality of life a lot.

I'm not comparing GRS with this surgery but I am using it as an example that what is an unacceptable risk to some is a leap others are willing to take. I think bodily autonomy is important, we should all be free to do whatever we want with the body given to us. I think plenty of people have discussed the potential downsides and side effects in this thread and I think it's clear Reddy is familiar with them and has considered them. He's 37-years-old, old enough to know himself and make decisions.

Would I do it? No. Would I recommend others to do it? Probably not. But it isn't my place to tell Reddy what he can or can't do. If he had said he was looking for advice I would perhaps argue against the procedure but he isn't. He's simply chronicling the journey.

---

I just want to add... This is the "Incontinent - Desires" subforum. We've asked people before to not come in here just to tell people they are wrong for wanting what they want (similar to rules in place in the LGBT and religion forum to stop trolling). I'm pleased there has been this much discussion with both people supporting and cautioning the decision without anyone stepping over the line Keep it up!

[Babypants]

As part of your planning, have you paid a visit to the Emergency Room of a local hospital?  I was in one on a lazy midweek morning this summer to get stitches on a wound, and was there for five and a half hours.  This was in Minneapolis, and here as throughout the country, hospitals are being overwhelmed by illegals who use the ER's for ordinary care, never mind emergencies.  An appointment for a specialty care physician with my provider is now running six weeks minimum, and in some specialties is averaging three and a half months.  You should plan on drawing more heavily upon the medical care system after this procedure, so have you researched this issue and developed a game plan to secure appropriate care, especially since it appears that you will not have a written medical history that explains your condition?

[superabsorbantpolymer]

Obviously no mainstream medical journal would publish it, but I'd love if your surgeon wrote a study about the people they operated on. I get hyper focus on special interests and this week I've been reading so many urinary surgical papers, motivated by this thread 😂. Surely there's some occult journal of dark medicine for the ethically curious out there.

[padded-nightly]

3 hours ago, MinnesotaWriter said:

Reddy is going to have an irreversible surgery that will forever alter his life. Despite this, he is refusing to engage in the basic due diligence of doing a trial run to fully understand how this decision will impact him.

"basic due diligence," in your opinion.

He has no obligation to you, or anyone else, to approach the problem the way that you want.

You're deliberately manipulating language using phrases like "basic due diligence" and "fully understand" to make it sound like your opinion on the subject is fact when it is merely your opinion and has no bearing on the choices @Reddy makes.

2 hours ago, superabsorbantpolymer said:

Obviously no mainstream medical journal would publish it

In the current context, no, I don't think a medical journal would find it met the standards to publish. However, a paper written from a psychological perspective where the doctors involved ultimately recommended and preformed surgery to make the patient incontinent as a cure for BIID? That would be a worthy paper.

[superabsorbantpolymer]

Further findings in my incontinence inducing literature review. I found some papers talking about Botox injections in the external urinary sphincter, for people who have dysfunction voiding. It's usually used inside the bladder itself to reduce detrusor activity, but in this case its used off label and injected into the sphincter. Source

> urinary incontinence might be a de novo adverse event after treatment. Repeat urethral injection is necessary to maintain therapeutic efficacy. Patients should be fully informed of the limited therapeutic efficacy and possible adverse events prior to treatmen

one would assume the higher the dose the more profound.

I wonder if your surgeon would be willing to do such a procedure? I doubt you'll be convinced to change your plans at this point, but it might be a good option for some. Can you ask next time you're talking to them? I think I might want to do that some day.

[Hannah YMS]

On 1/21/2024 at 1:48 PM, Reddy said:

Plus I don't really want to have any leaks in front of anybody.

Reddy, I support your decision, but from the sounds of it you don't really know what you're getting into.

Leaks are a fact of the incontinent life, whether you like it or not. No matter how often you change. It's about time you rip that band aid off right now. If you don't understand this by now then you're kind of screwed bro, not gonna lie.

On 1/21/2024 at 10:09 PM, superabsorbantpolymer said:

You have mentioned surgery as alleviating a need to be forced to wear diapers. If the surgery is unsuccessful in causing incontinence long term will you continue to wear 24/7?

This is the true test of your resolve. Can/will you do it?

[cathdiap]

I am actually really glad Reddy started this topic. For me it is very clear now what End Stage Incontinence Desires exactly looks like. After the surgery there would be nothing left for me to wish for or fantasise about, so my last sexual drive would be gone forever.

I am afraid of loving women and I am scared of loving men, I only have sexual desires with diapers. Yes I know I am a complete failure regarding sexuality, but hey, that's what I have to deal with for the rest of my life. Meaning I have to keep the fantasy of incontinence alive; Irreversible incontinence after surgery would leave me completely asexual. No thanks!

Also I don't want my parents, siblings, children and grandchildren to think of me as that disabled dude that needs to wear diapers. 

 

[Reddy]

3 hours ago, Hannah YMS said:

Reddy, I support your decision, but from the sounds of it you don't really know what you're getting into.

Leaks are a fact of the incontinent life, whether you like it or not. No matter how often you change. It's about time you rip that band aid off right now. If you don't understand this by now then you're kind of screwed bro, not gonna lie.

This is the true test of your resolve. Can/will you do it?

The discussion about leaks was that I was suggested to purposely flood my diaper so it leaks in front of friends.  I know leaks could happen, but I still don't want them.  I think that’s normal.  But I do understand they are part of the risk of being incontinent.  I just don't want to do a demonstration of it in front of friends right now when it's not necessary, and of course I hope to avoid as many leaks as possible.

 

2 hours ago, cathdiap said:

I am actually really glad Reddy started this topic. For me it is very clear now what End Stage Incontinence Desires exactly looks like. After the surgery there would be nothing left for me to wish for or fantasise about, so my last sexual drive would be gone forever.

I am afraid of loving women and I am scared of loving men, I only have sexual desires with diapers. Yes I know I am a complete failure regarding sexuality, but hey, that's what I have to deal with for the rest of my life. Meaning I have to keep the fantasy of incontinence alive; Irreversible incontinence after surgery would leave me completely asexual. No thanks!

Also I don't want my parents, siblings, children and grandchildren to think of me as that disabled dude that needs to wear diapers. 

 

Are you sure it would make you asexual?  Is it totally about the desire to be incontinent and no enjoyment of actually being incontinent?  Or is it just you think the enjoyment would fade?

 

5 hours ago, superabsorbantpolymer said:

Further findings in my incontinence inducing literature review. I found some papers talking about Botox injections in the external urinary sphincter, for people who have dysfunction voiding. It's usually used inside the bladder itself to reduce detrusor activity, but in this case its used off label and injected into the sphincter. Source

> urinary incontinence might be a de novo adverse event after treatment. Repeat urethral injection is necessary to maintain therapeutic efficacy. Patients should be fully informed of the limited therapeutic efficacy and possible adverse events prior to treatmen

one would assume the higher the dose the more profound.

I wonder if your surgeon would be willing to do such a procedure? I doubt you'll be convinced to change your plans at this point, but it might be a good option for some. Can you ask next time you're talking to them? I think I might want to do that some day.

Yeah, I can ask about it.  Does it require repeat visits?  I don't know if it would be worthwhile to have them as a contact for something like botox that would require repeat visits by plane, or or maybe so, but maybe they have info or experience with it

[cathdiap]

1 hour ago, Reddy said:

Are you sure it would make you asexual?  Is it totally about the desire to be incontinent and no enjoyment of actually being incontinent?  Or is it just you think the enjoyment would fade?

Having failed time and time again to wear my stent 24/7 for extended periods of time I know that incontinence itself is not something i would enjoy for the rest of my life. It gets boring really quickly. The only tempting aspect of irreversible incontinence would be the mental challenge of dealing with the realisation of lifelong dependence on diapers.

I suspect the thrill of that realisation will be as short-lived as the thrill of being incontinent. The fantasies about it, on the other hand, have given me satisfaction for more than 40 years. I don'r see why that would change in the future.

[Reddy]

21 minutes ago, mirrored said:

I think you mentioned that your procedure includes a combination of a TURP and TURBN. I've had the TUIBN done before and, while different, it definitely did not impact my control much at all, at least not yet since it was about 5 months ago now. The way I ejaculate definitely changed as a result of the surgery, in which a little bit goes back in instead of all of it coming out in an explosion. It definitely took some getting used to, but it feels pretty normal now. The main thing the procedure did so far was that it has turned my nocturia from an extremely annoying and frustrating issue to a non-issue entirely, which is great.

I have to ask a few questions - 

• You mentioned that you have some existing urinary dysfunction or lower urinary tract symptoms (LUTS) before - what are those like? Have you ever had those looked at before? 
   
• If you have, have you ever had a procedure done to treat those symptoms before? Or any kind of surgery for your urinary or bowel problems? 
   
• You mention that when you try to wear diapers, you often stop wearing them because you don't *need* them or its not as fun and you would rather "need them" - could you explain that feeling more? Is it boredom? Guilt? What causes you to stop wearing?
   
• What is the longest streak of time that you've ever worn diapers for?  What made you stop then? 

Other posters have said this and I want to add my voice to their chorus - Incontinence and bladder / bowel dysfunction involves a LOT more than diapers. There can be a lot of pain, spasms, blockages, leaks, and pressure. A lot of very unpleasant discomfort constantly that diapers do not at all help with. All of these symptoms and problems can manifest in a myriad of different ways and interfere with your day to day life dramatically. You seem to be excited about the prospect of needing to wear diapers but when it comes to bladder / bowel dysfunction (taking the kink aspects out of the picture) diapers only play a small part in the bigger picture. At least in my experience as someone who has dealt with frequent urination and leaks for my entire life resulting from a bladder neck obstruction. 

I don't think that you have fully looked at all of your options when it comes to adapting the lifestyle you want. I think there is an easier, cheaper, and more effective way to get what you want without dealing with the immense cost and huge risks that you are taking on with this method. I also think that going through with this procedure won't get you what you want. You may find yourself in the exact same place you find yourself now, with some dysfunction but not enough to justify diapers in your mind, and a whole set of other symptoms that will make your life much more frustrating and difficult to manage. 

 

Thanks for the info and questions.  I'm glad to hear the orgasms feel normal now even with the retrograde ejaculation!  I will be facing the same change to ejaculation.

My LUTS is intermittent pain/discomfort feeling where I need to urinate, don't urinate very much, and keep having to urinate every minute or two for anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour or more.  I have had accidents when I wasn't prepared for it and had to wear diapers sometimes.  It's extremely unpleasant to experience.

I complained to my doctor, but no procedure has been done yet although he thought it sounded like bladder neck obstruction.  And I am not willing to deal with the side effects of medication, like foggy head, dizziness, and light-headedness.

Yes, when I don't need diapers I stop wearing them because it's a hassle, they are embarrassing and awkward, and I don't want anybody to notice I am wearing them.  It becomes a huge amount of mental effort to deal with hiding them, feeling embarrassed, and it's just less comfortable than regular clothes.

I have worn them for streaks before and it was okay but kind of pointless to continue.  And it felt wrong because I don't need diapers.

I am very interested in the easier, cheaper, and more effective way to get what I want without dealing with the immense cost and huge risks, if you can provide any information on that.

[DAQ]

3 hours ago, Reddy said:

The discussion about leaks was that I was suggested to purposely flood my diaper so it leaks in front of friends.  I know leaks could happen, but I still don't want them.  I think that’s normal.  But I do understand they are part of the risk of being incontinent.  I just don't want to do a demonstration of it in front of friends right now when it's not necessary, and of course I hope to avoid as many leaks as possible 

This is a similar problem I have with untraining for BI. At some point you are going to have to deliberately poop in front of people before it is an accident. And it feels wrong somehow to do it on purpose. I have leaked in public. Was it embarrassing? Yes, absolutely. Did I survive? Yup, and I moved on.

One will adapt and move on. I guarantee it.

[Reddy]

16 minutes ago, DAQ said:

This is a similar problem I have with untraining for BI. At some point you are going to have to deliberately poop in front of people before it is an accident. And it feels wrong somehow to do it on purpose. I have leaked in public. Was it embarrassing? Yes, absolutely. Did I survive? Yup, and I moved on.

One will adapt and move on. I guarantee it.

I felt shocked thinking about deliberately pooping.  Maybe I have stronger mental blocks than I realized.  Maybe more guilt than I realized too.

[Reddy]

27 minutes ago, mirrored said:

Thanks for your answers, it helps to have more context. I have a couple more questions - Have you ever had any kind of urodynamics or any kind of diagnostic exam done for this issue? Have you seen a urologist at all? Or have you been mostly stonewalled and dismissed by your doctors? How long has it been an issue for you? And what was the longest streak you had where you wore them full time, or at least more frequently than underwear? 

I agree with you on medication - I tried quite a few last year when I originally got my diagnosis and I found that the side effects, mostly the foggy headed ness and dizziness and interference with sexual function, wasn't worth the minor benefits I got from them. I ultimately decided that diapers were a much better management solution for myself than any more medications or further procedures. I struggle with that guilt and that feeling that I "don't really need them" despite how much they helped in managing my day to day. 

I feel like behind every strong case of incontinence desire lies a pre-existing and underlying dysfunction or frustration with bodily functions. But also this fantasy that incontinence is this total and complete loss of control, helplessly wetting and messing into their diapers. That it could solve whatever problems or frustrations or difficulties they have with that system. But that is not what the reality of incontinence is like. There is a lot more involved and the leaks and messes are really just a consequence of those other things. You should know, since you are already dealing with it. 

No I haven't seen a urologist yet or had those tests but I did just get a referral this year which I am glad about.

I have worn diapers mostly continuously for weeks or months at a time just to try it.

 

2 hours ago, mirrored said:

I don't think that you have fully looked at all of your options when it comes to adapting the lifestyle you want. I think there is an easier, cheaper, and more effective way to get what you want without dealing with the immense cost and huge risks that you are taking on with this method.

What was this option?  Maybe my question about it got buried with the rest of my post.

[Reddy]

17 hours ago, MinnesotaWriter said:

Otherwise, I'm just going to get really annoyed.

That would make two of us.

[Reddy]

8 minutes ago, mirrored said:

Thanks for answering! Its great to hear you got a referral! I think I read that you planned on using it after you get that surgery? Or what was your plan for it? 

I guess I am just wondering what your longest stretch of time in diapers really is, just as baseline information. I think depending on how long it is, you have a good idea what you are getting into. What I am mostly curious about though, is after that one month or two month stretch, however long it may be, what made you decide to stop? Did diapers just get too cumbersome and annoying? Did you get too into your head? 

I avoided answering it in my last post as I wanted to get a better idea of what exactly it is that you want and what was holding you back from doing so. I did say it was cheaper, easier, and more effective, or at least less risky than the method you are pursuing. But it is definitely not faster. You need to change your mindset around what "needing diapers" means and accept that you need them. Accounting for logistics, resources, and effort required, This is definitely "easier" than flying to Mexico and getting a risky surgery, but it is not easy. Its actually quite a lot of mental work you'd need to do. But whether you get this surgery or not, its something you will be forced to do anyways. 

The work involves self-examination into what is holding you back from wearing them full time to begin with and figuring out how to overcome the reservations and barriers stopping you from doing so. Really, if diapers make your life better and more manageable, that is the only justification you need to wear them full time. Identifying and overcoming what is holding you back from understanding that is what is needed to accomplish this. That is why I asked that question above about how long - and why did you stop? 

I would really really recommend that you hold off on getting this surgery and instead use that urologist referral you got. Tell them your symptoms, tell them how much is bothering you, how difficult it is making your day to day life, and push for them to schedule some sort of diagnostic exam to figure out what is going on with you. Preferably a urodynamics test, since that will give you a lot of metrics and data to compare yourself to what a "normal bladder" is like and allow the urologist to actually see inside all of it to give you a better picture of what is going on. Be aggressive and advocate for yourself, and if you don't get what you want from the one you see, go see another until you get satisfactory answers. You don't have to commit to any treatment plan or medications and you are in complete control of the information you give them. I only got my diagnosis for my LUTS issues last year despite dealing with them my entire life, but actually summoning the courage and going through it was one of the best things I ever did. It helped resolve so much of the inner turmoil I faced over diapers and bladder dysfunction and incontinence and I'm sure it'd do the same for you. 

If nothing else, you'll be armed with more information about yourself before you move forward with this. Its not like the clinic or this option is going anywhere, and you've lasted this long dealing with it, whats another few months? 

Yes, my plan is to use the referral after surgery.  I actually already made an appointment with the urologist for April, since I was logged in making my annual physical appointment.

I think I have gone one or maybe two months at a stretch.  Ultimately it was just easier to stop wearing the diapers.  So I guess cumbersome and annoying.

Ok, thanks for describing that option.  I guess at this point I just don't feel like it gets me what I want.  I want to be incontinent right now, and even another two and a half weeks is really hard to wait for so I don't think I could postpone it or wait for myself to do any mental work.

[Reddy]

1 hour ago, mirrored said:

Based on what you have already described to us, specifically - 

You already are incontinent. You already deal with the issues incontinent people deal with. Frequent urination, overactive bladder, leaks, and accidents - this is the reality of urinary incontinence. Millions of people deal with it. It varies in severity from person to person because the root cause of these problems is different. What you are doing is chasing an idealized version of incontinence that exists in our communities, but doesn't really manifest except in very rare and severe cases. And I am afraid that what you will find after this procedure is done will not be that ideal, but something much different and much more difficult to manage. That unpleasantness you describe will become more frequent and overwhelming. And you will still wind up in a situation where you question whether you "really need" to wear them or not. I get that you want to "not have a choice" but you will always have that choice whether you get the procedure done or not. 

In some ways this is kind of cool to be told I am incontinent.  However I think my symptoms might sound more dramatic to you than they really are.  Recently this was occurring every day, but on a normal basis I go many days or weeks between symptoms.  In addition I almost never have any issue outside the house.  It's usually in the morning or evening (when I'm more tired?) And only rarely had accidents while driving or going into work.

I want to be incontinent to the point of needing diapers all day, every day, so that's why I prefer the surgery option.

[Nat]

11 hours ago, Hannah YMS said:

Reddy, I support your decision, but from the sounds of it you don't really know what you're getting into.

Leaks are a fact of the incontinent life, whether you like it or not. No matter how often you change. It's about time you rip that band aid off right now. If you don't understand this by now then you're kind of screwed bro, not gonna lie.

This is the true test of your resolve. Can/will you do it?

I deal with leaks when I change and I never know when it will happen, it doesn't happen every time but it has so I keep a diaper under me while I change. If I must change out in public, I sit on the toilet while I am getting cleaned up. I'm happy I don't deal with bladder voids than dribbles. Makes me wonder how often I do it in my diaper. Sometimes I feel it and it just slow leaks like water dripping out of a faucet. Sometimes pressure will make it come out. 

[Reddy]

Thanks, yes I suppose it's me who decides whether I need diapers.  I am functioning fine without diapers almost all of the time so I don't think I do.  But as far as incontinence, I don't feel incontinent.  If after the surgery I can still go without diapers (like today, where it's a low enough risk of problems that I can essentially don't need to think about it at all) I would probably not meet my own criteria for needing diapers, and I guess I wouldn't wear them.

[padded-nightly]

22 hours ago, superabsorbantpolymer said:

approach it from a "minimize possible regret" methodology

Why should we approach life like this?

I should not fall in love, they might betray me and break my heart.

I should not travel to a new country, the travel brochures might look nicer than the reality.

I should not pick up a new hobby, I might spend a bunch of money and realize I don't like it.

 

Minimizing regret is minimizing the capacity for joy.

[oznl]

I’d have to admit I hadn’t fully processed the intel that you were NOT already 24/7 diapered.  That’s going to be a shock for you I suspect but it remains your decision. 

Not that I’m attempting to advocate one way or the other but your desire to put the whole question of diapering beyond contestability by becoming incontinent DOES resonate with me.  I truly get that.

I’ve been diapered 24/7 for 5 years and on balance, I still prefer it.  Whilst not strictly speaking daytime incontinent, there is by now a fair degree of dependency.  Sure, there are some days that are a bit annoying but on the whole, it’s what I choose to do.  Risks can be mitigated and managed and I find it far from the dystopian hell-scape that some have painted but you ARE crashing into that world hard.  I hope it works out for you as it’s worked out for me.  The difference for me I guess is that I have a parachute.

On 1/22/2024 at 6:48 AM, Reddy said:

Plus I don't really want to have any leaks in front of anybody.  I'm going to change my diaper a lot so I don't have any.  I think I should be able to hide the fact that I wear diapers from everybody except the few I am close with.

 

You've already acknowledged the reality that leaks WILL happen.  My experience is that as my voiding pattern changed to high frequency/low volume and as I gained experience with what products suited my form, the frequency of leakage fell away markedly.  You'll get my voiding pattern instantly so you'll just have product variables I suppose.  They STILL happen though. I routinely wear plastic pants over my nappy during the day and generally leaks are minor to the point of unnoticeable.

With leaks, black jeans are your friends.  I've learned you can get away with murder in black pants!  I’ve already recommended the terry-lined plastic pants trick to protect beds.

Wearing out and about, my experience has been that too much nappy is better than not enough and bigger nappies work out better for me than more frequent changing.  To be honest, people for the most part aren’t gazing at our crotches and if you look the same everyday, what’s to see?  I’ve worn to work at years.  My calculation is that the big nappy solution is better than trying to orchestrate nappy changes at an office.  I stay in my work nappy all day.  Sure, I’m pretty wet by changing time but I regard that as extracting maximum value out of my product.  I actually get by with only TWO nappies per day mostly and that's using my nappies 100% for pee day and night.

7 hours ago, Reddy said:

I felt shocked thinking about deliberately pooping.  Maybe I have stronger mental blocks than I realized.  Maybe more guilt than I realized too.

I'm not sure were that "requirement" came from 😆  I’ve defended bowel continence and mostly I still have it.  The only caveat I’d raise is that if I’ve eaten something that doesn’t agree with me, well, accidents CAN happen now.  If they do, at least I’m in a nappy.  Even that has NEVER happened in front of people: I’ve always been able to remove myself from a situation to some extent.  In summary, there’s been some co-incident degradation of bowel control for me as urinary diaper dependency reared its head but it’s not been that serious.

22 hours ago, Elfy said:

Many people would make similar arguments about my wife's gender reassignment surgery. It is irreversible and major. There was  reasonably high chance of complications that she had to weigh up before putting hre name down, some of which would've been very difficult to live with. At the end of the day she went for it because it was important to her. From an outsiders "objective" point of view, if looked at from the perspective of a robot with no understanding of emotion, you could say that surgery was foolish as well and yet it has improved her quality of life a lot.

I'm not comparing GRS with this surgery but I am using it as an example that what is an unacceptable risk to some is a leap others are willing to take. I think bodily autonomy is important, we should all be free to do whatever we want with the body given to us. I think plenty of people have discussed the potential downsides and side effects in this thread and I think it's clear Reddy is familiar with them and has considered them. He's 37-years-old, old enough to know himself and make decisions.

100% this.  Although I've had neither, I think the parallels between what Reddy is planning and SRS look very strong.

22 hours ago, Elfy said:

I just want to add... This is the "Incontinent - Desires" subforum. We've asked people before to not come in here just to tell people they are wrong for wanting what they want (similar to rules in place in the LGBT and religion forum to stop trolling). I'm pleased there has been this much discussion with both people supporting and cautioning the decision without anyone stepping over the line Keep it up!

I empathically agree with this also.  I’ve seen so many of these threads descend into bar-room brawls that get moderated out and this one hasn’t even come close (that’s not a challenge btw 🤣).  There’s been differences of opinion but generally ideas are contested rather than people insulted ("foolish" is getting close to the wire though) and that’s what makes a discussion a discussion versus a fight.

It's a super-interesting thread for me and I'm very grateful to @Reddy for launching it.

[FretaBWet]

Just for the record, transgender surgery requires counseling and psychiatric sign off by a psychiatrist and living full time including the ability to work in the new gender for about a year. Nobody just gets surgery without knowing they can productively live and support themselves after surgery because you can't go back.

Hugs,

Freta

[Reddy]

47 minutes ago, oznl said:

I’d have to admit I hadn’t fully processed the intel that you were NOT already 24/7 diapered.  That’s going to be a shock for you I suspect but it remains your decision. 

 

Not that I’m attempting to advocate one way or the other but your desire to put the whole question of diapering beyond contestability by becoming incontinent DOES resonate with me.  I truly get that.

 

I’ve been diapered 24/7 for 5 years and on balance, I still prefer it.  Whilst not strictly speaking daytime incontinent, there is by now a fair degree of dependency.  Sure, there are some days that are a bit annoying but on the whole, it’s what I choose to do.  Risks can be mitigated and managed and I find it far from the dystopian hell-scape that some have painted but you ARE crashing into that world hard.  I hope it works out for you as it’s worked out for me.  The difference for me I guess is that I have a parachute.

 

You've already acknowledged the reality that leaks WILL happen.  My experience is that as my voiding pattern changed to high frequency/low volume and as I gained experience with what products suited my form, the frequency of leakage fell away markedly.  You'll get my voiding pattern instantly so you'll just have product variables I suppose.  They STILL happen though. I routinely wear plastic pants over my nappy during the day and generally leaks are minor to the point of unnoticeable.

 

With leaks, black jeans are your friends.  I've learned you can get away with murder in black pants!  I’ve already recommended the terry-lined plastic pants trick to protect beds.

 

Wearing out and about, my experience has been that too much nappy is better than not enough and bigger nappies work out better for me than more frequent changing.  To be honest, people for the most part aren’t gazing at our crotches and if you look the same everyday, what’s to see?  I’ve worn to work at years.  My calculation is that the big nappy solution is better than trying to orchestrate nappy changes at an office.  I stay in my work nappy all day.  Sure, I’m pretty wet by changing time but I regard that as extracting maximum value out of my product.  I actually get by with only TWO nappies per day mostly and that's using my nappies 100% for pee day and night.

 

 

I'm not sure were that "requirement" came from 😆  I’ve defended bowel continence and mostly I still have it.  The only caveat I’d raise is that if I’ve eaten something that doesn’t agree with me, well, accidents CAN happen now.  If they do, at least I’m in a nappy.  Even that has NEVER happened in front of people: I’ve always been able to remove myself from a situation to some extent.  In summary, there’s been some co-incident degradation of bowel control for me as urinary diaper dependency reared its head but it’s not been that serious.

100% this.  Although I've had neither, I think the parallels between what Reddy is planning and SRS look very strong.

I empathically agree with this also.  I’ve seen so many of these threads descend into bar-room brawls that get moderated out and this one hasn’t even come close (that’s not a challenge btw 🤣).  There’s been differences of opinion but generally ideas are contested rather than people insulted ("foolish" is getting close to the wire though) and that’s what makes a discussion a discussion versus a fight.

It's a super-interesting thread for me and I'm very grateful to @Reddy for launching it.

 

 

Thank you for the great practical advice!  This was very helpful.  I am definitely going to switch to black jeans and black slacks full time.  That's pretty cool that you can get by with only two diapers a day.  I would love it if I don’t have to change during the day at work.  I think having a bigger diaper sounds worth it.  It's cool to know I will get used to my diapers and peeing schedule to be able to work with any leaks that happen.  Thanks, I'll probably come back to your post to remember the advice.

17 minutes ago, FretaBWet said:

Just for the record, transgender surgery requires counseling and psychiatric sign off by a psychiatrist and living full time including the ability to work in the new gender for about a year. Nobody just gets surgery without knowing they can productively live and support themselves after surgery because you can't go back.

Hugs,

Freta

Not in Mexico it doesn't 

[superabsorbantpolymer]

1 hour ago, padded-nightly said:

Why should we approach life like this?

I should not fall in love, they might betray me and break my heart.

I should not travel to a new country, the travel brochures might look nicer than the reality.

I should not pick up a new hobby, I might spend a bunch of money and realize I don't like it.

 

Minimizing regret is minimizing the capacity for joy.

If you want to be reductionist:

I should not date, I should randomly marry someone the first day I meet them.

I should not research where I go, just pick a random country where they may be a war or extreme weather event.

I should immediately purchase all the best gear for any new interest, because it's by hobby. 

Rushing into those scenarios head first is clearly ill advised. But in all of those scenarios, the action can be undone do some degree (annulment/divorce, evacuation, return/resell), respectively. I'm not saying reddy should be miserable in his continent body forever, think even a few months of delay and 24/7 usage would give him a bit more clarity on whether this is the right call, and also learn some lessons on easy mode. And that's just considering everything going well medically. You only ever get one body, you cannot undo cutting parts of it off, this surgery could be the beginning of a number of new chronic health conditions besides incontinence. 

Edited January 26 by superabsorbantpolymer