Sweden has a diaper issue in schools.

[diapered charles]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/too-many-kids-school-still-201243739.html

[MegaChar]

The adverage age of potty training is 3 years old in US and 4 in UK. Im not surprised its increasing.

There might come a time when potty training doesnt happen.

[Little Cub Pants]

1 hour ago, MegaChar said:

The adverage age of potty training is 3 years old in US and 4 in UK. Im not surprised its increasing.

There might come a time when potty training doesnt happen.

What do you think will happen if potty training stops all together? I mean I know the UK embrace potty training at an older age but I wouldn't be surprised if there the first country to embrace diapers all together and stop potty training their kids.🤔😅😕🤫🤭

[Ilnincalas]

Switzerland*

[AbabeBill]

Wow! Crazy stuff. While I would not force early (less than 2ish) potty training, it’s got to get done. You’re the parent (s), you should know, realize, be aware of when your child, children are ready. If I were a teacher, I’d be adamant, no diaper changes! Barring of corse, special needs, which has protocol for that. 
As a parent, it would be different for a bedwetting situation, or possibly a long outing/car ride. Even then, a fairly young child can be taught to look after their own needs. And just as a matter of fact. You’re getting older, you can learn to take care of yourself. No shaming, no punishment, but you’re going to learn, when it’s an absolutely necessary situation. 

[ValentinesStuff]

8 hours ago, Little Spider said:

What do you think will happen if potty training stops all together? I mean I know the UK embrace potty training at an older age but I wouldn't be surprised if there the first country to embrace diapers all together and stop potty training their kids.🤔😅😕🤫🤭

It'll probably be Pooland. 😛

[Little Cub Pants]

14 hours ago, MegaChar said:

The adverage age of potty training is 3 years old in US and 4 in UK. Im not surprised its increasing.

There might come a time when potty training doesnt happen.

Why do you think it's increasing so much?

[spark]

It's hard to tell the truth from these articles because they are heavy on hyperbole and low on statistics.  Especially when you add in click-bait headlines.  The headline in the NY Post for this article: "Teachers fed up with 11-year-old kids wearing diapers to school: ‘Worrying trend’"   That's attention-grabbing, but the only mention of an eleven-year-old wearing a diaper is from one single child development expert who had one patient who wasn't taught to use the potty at eleven.  There is a story there, but one child is not evidence of a trend.

However, there is clear evidence that kids are potty trained much later than they used to be, which might have to do with a difference in attitudes.  I know back in the 50's it was 18 months, and I'm sure that was much later than when kids were potty trained back in my grandparents' day.   I'm sure handwashing diapers was a big disincentive to keep babies in diapers back in the day.

 

Interestingly, apparently, 95% of kids are potty trained by age 4 (1 in 20 still not potty trained) in a recent survey, and in 2004 it was 95% of kids potty trained by age 3.   If that trend continues, by 2040- there might be 1 in 20 kids still not potty trained by age five.

Mind you, kids start school in the USA about one year before they start in most of Europe.   In Switzerland, the minimum age for primary school (which I think is first grade) is six years old.  The cutoff for Kindergarten (which is academic- but only 4 hours instead of 5) in California was December 2 (it's September 1 now), but we start in early August.   I started Kindergarten on my sixth birthday because I was really potty trained until late spring before my fifth birthday.

https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/children-are-being-potty-trained-a-year-later-than-they-were-in-2004-yougov-poll-shows-1083869

3 minutes ago, Little Spider said:

Why do you think it's increasing so much?

I've heard that disposable diapers and Pull-Ups have played a role, but those have been around for a long time now.  I'm young enough to have used Pampers, and I think my mom did use them on me for protection when I was three (and four?).   Pull-Ups were introduced more than thirty years ago, so that doesn't explain why the age has increased since 2000.

One thing to note is that kids that started school in September 2022 were born in 2017, and were three years old during 2020.  One of the blames is that parents don't spend the time to potty train kids now, but most people had all kinds of time back in 2020.  They also weren't doing a lot of outings back then, which I would assume would support potty training.

Personally, I think parents are infantilizing their children, and it goes beyond just potty training.  It's giving children the independence to do things by themselves.   We used to play around our whole neighborhood in 3rd grade.   Outside, the road was a wiffle ball arena.  We had epic kickball matches in the Court where I used to live.   I bet there are many 5th graders who have never been unsupervised for even a few minutes.

[diapered charles]

On 6/15/2023 at 3:56 AM, Ilnincalas said:

Switzerland*

My bad! 

[Kawaharu]

On 6/15/2023 at 12:36 AM, MegaChar said:

The adverage age of potty training is 3 years old in US and 4 in UK. Im not surprised its increasing.

There might come a time when potty training doesnt happen.

Personally, I think there might come a day where potty training becomes an option and not a requirement. If we are seeing this happen more in Europe, how far along before we ever see a day where potty training becomes an option and diapering becomes the norm. How long before being diapered is more of a norm than potty training.

[Little Cub Pants]

1 hour ago, Kawaharu said:

Personally, I think there might come a day where potty training becomes an option and not a requirement. If we are seeing this happen more in Europe, how far along before we ever see a day where potty training becomes an option and diapering becomes the norm. How long before being diapered is more of a norm than potty training.

But if we ever see the day where diapering is the norm and potty training is optional is that REALLY a good thing, or do we need to take a step back and evaluate things?🤔🤨😕

[Kawaharu]

57 minutes ago, Little Spider said:

But if we ever see the day where diapering is the norm and potty training is optional is that REALLY a good thing, or do we need to take a step back and evaluate things?🤔🤨😕

That depends on how we see it in society. It could be a good thing for those in curtain populations that have issues with potty training.

[spark]

2 hours ago, Kawaharu said:

Personally, I think there might come a day where potty training becomes an option and not a requirement. If we are seeing this happen more in Europe, how far along before we ever see a day where potty training becomes an option and diapering becomes the norm. How long before being diapered is more of a norm than potty training.

The statistics say that 95% of kids are potty trained by their 4th birthday, which means that it's still rare for a 4-year-old to need diapers during the day.  I don't think it will ever become common to see otherwise healthy children still wearing a diaper during the day.

What might happen is that the stigma of being in diapers won't be as pronounced.

[Kawaharu]

19 hours ago, spark said:

What might happen is that the stigma of being in diapers won't be as pronounced.

The elimination of the stigma of being in diapers is the 1st step in a long road.

[babybuddha]

On 6/15/2023 at 7:56 PM, spark said:

It's hard to tell the truth from these articles because they are heavy on hyperbole and low on statistics.  Especially when you add in click-bait headlines.  The headline in the NY Post for this article: "Teachers fed up with 11-year-old kids wearing diapers to school: ‘Worrying trend’"   That's attention-grabbing, but the only mention of an eleven-year-old wearing a diaper is from one single child development expert who had one patient who wasn't taught to use the potty at eleven.  There is a story there, but one child is not evidence of a trend.

However, there is clear evidence that kids are potty trained much later than they used to be, which might have to do with a difference in attitudes.  I know back in the 50's it was 18 months, and I'm sure that was much later than when kids were potty trained back in my grandparents' day.   I'm sure handwashing diapers was a big disincentive to keep babies in diapers back in the day.

 

Interestingly, apparently, 95% of kids are potty trained by age 4 (1 in 20 still not potty trained) in a recent survey, and in 2004 it was 95% of kids potty trained by age 3.   If that trend continues, by 2040- there might be 1 in 20 kids still not potty trained by age five.

Mind you, kids start school in the USA about one year before they start in most of Europe.   In Switzerland, the minimum age for primary school (which I think is first grade) is six years old.  The cutoff for Kindergarten (which is academic- but only 4 hours instead of 5) in California was December 2 (it's September 1 now), but we start in early August.   I started Kindergarten on my sixth birthday because I was really potty trained until late spring before my fifth birthday.

https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/children-are-being-potty-trained-a-year-later-than-they-were-in-2004-yougov-poll-shows-1083869

I've heard that disposable diapers and Pull-Ups have played a role, but those have been around for a long time now.  I'm young enough to have used Pampers, and I think my mom did use them on me for protection when I was three (and four?).   Pull-Ups were introduced more than thirty years ago, so that doesn't explain why the age has increased since 2000.

One thing to note is that kids that started school in September 2022 were born in 2017, and were three years old during 2020.  One of the blames is that parents don't spend the time to potty train kids now, but most people had all kinds of time back in 2020.  They also weren't doing a lot of outings back then, which I would assume would support potty training.

Personally, I think parents are infantilizing their children, and it goes beyond just potty training.  It's giving children the independence to do things by themselves.   We used to play around our whole neighborhood in 3rd grade.   Outside, the road was a wiffle ball arena.  We had epic kickball matches in the Court where I used to live.   I bet there are many 5th graders who have never been unsupervised for even a few minutes.

After reading the iNews article on the increasing age of potty training in the UK, I've been reflecting on the implications and the broader societal shifts it represents.

Personally, I view the trend towards later potty training in a positive light. It suggests a broader acceptance of extended infancy and a more relaxed approach to developmental milestones. The days when parents felt pressured to adhere to rigid timelines seem to be fading. Instead, there's a growing understanding that every child is unique, and there's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to such personal journeys.

The article attributes the delay in potty training to factors like "child-led" parenting and the convenience of modern disposable nappies. However, I believe there's another angle to consider: our society's gradual embrace of a more infantilized culture. The popularity of adult onesies, the rise of adult coloring books, and even communities like ours are clear indicators of this trend.

Given the current trajectory, I speculate that in the next decade or so, the average potty training age might edge up to 4 or even 4.5 years. As societal pressures ease and acceptance of individual timelines becomes the norm, parents might feel even more comfortable allowing their children to transition out of nappies at their own pace.

In conclusion, while some might view the delay in potty training as a concern, I see it as a testament to a society that's becoming more understanding, inclusive, and open-minded. It's a world where the lines between childhood and adulthood blur, allowing us to cherish the innocence and wonder of our early years.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Parents should potty train as early as psssible. That way, whEn a child turns 4, she can wear diapers because she WANTS to

I was potty trained by the time I was 4 DAMMIT!!!!!

[Babyqtboy]

On 6/15/2023 at 2:53 PM, Spider Boy Diaper Boy said:

Why do you think it's increasing so much?

Multiple reasons, in the 70’s and 80’s there were more stay at home moms (who had the time to potty train), cloth diapers were still accounting for the majority of diaper choices for parents which required more work, and disposable diapers though extremely thick and comfortable (speaking from experience), were not capable of the absorption of 21st century diapers, (which honestly started getting to the current capacity in the early 90’s), which meant wet diapers and messy diapers felt uncomfortable. Diapers now are designed to feel dry even after several hours and multiple wettings which eliminates the association of being wet and being uncomfortable, so kids now take longer to realize that they are wet and uncomfortable. I also believe believe that the amount of screen time has turned toddlers into zombies, they are too distracted to notice they are peeing and because the diapers are so affective, by the time they recognize that they are wet, it’s been multiple wettings, which also sets back potty training. Autism is on the rise too, when I was a teenager in the early nineties, autism affected 1-456 kids, when my son was born in 1999, it was 1-156, and when I started working in developmental psychology in 2010, it was 1-92, and now it’s 1-56. This is due to a combination of things, diagnosis criteria has been changed, parents are screening their children sooner, and it’s not a stigma like ot was before. In the 70’s and 80’s when I was growing up, kids were forced to assimilate, by any means possible, (shame and corporal punishment most often), but now we have a softer approach to child rearing. My youngest is autistic (moderate to severe rating) and wasn’t potty trained until age 9, the number of times my parents and grandparents said it was because he was lazy, or we as parents were lazy was unbelievable. My mother actually suggested punishing him to get him to potty train 🙄 needless to say she was never allowed to be alone with my kids 😂😂

[ValentinesStuff]

@Babyqtboy

At least part of that increase in the number of diagnosis of Autism is simply that they are diagnosing it more. If I were a kid now, I would almost certainly be diagnosed with it. Also thinking back to kids I knew in school, I'm sure several of them would have been diagnosed too. 

[babykeiff]

Delays on potty training is just one of the newest items that are not being taught to our children due to the one concept of both parents working and child care being left to daycare / nursery workers. In original class society, a child was raised by a nanny and never interacted with their parents until the child was 12/14 years of age. In the modern world, with both parents working (suposedly to make a better life for their offspring) the same is happening where the teaching and raising of their children is farmed out to creche / nursery / and then school. However, with the increased rights of the child exceeding those of the career, there is a tendency not to educate a child to any level unless the child wants it.

This is the mistake that parents make, and the error of capitalism in the world - presuming that more money means greater status. Unfortunately, life finds a balance, and the more wealth one has, the more another needs to aquire to equal it, which in the long term devalues the value of money. The world calls this inflation, but inflation does not apply itself equally which means that the less fortunate tend to feel its bite harder. This is also due to the unsatable greed of these aforementione children.

This is creating a world where infantile behaviour is the norm and not the exception. This, in my opinion, comes with asociated problems - i.e. if one does not learn history, one is destined to repeat the mistakes of the past. Similar will occur with childhood greed - the greed for everything that the child sees, and without learning how to disceern, never learns the true value for items. As a result, and from the history of the child with its parents, the child disposes of the parents if/when the parent does not provide what the child wants.

This is the world that is being created, one that is destined to destroy itself. If that world includes people of all ages wearing diapers and infantile clothing etc., due to lack of being toilet trained, where others are employed to change them, that is only half the issue.

This all means that war, similar to what occured in France in 1789 (French Revolution) and Germany in 1920 (Cause and original reason National Socialist German Workers Party was formed) is destined to repeat.

[spark]

13 minutes ago, ValentinesStuff said:

@Babyqtboy

At least part of that increase in the number of diagnosis of Autism is simply that they are diagnosing it more. If I were a kid now, I would almost certainly be diagnosed with it. Also thinking back to kids I knew in school, I'm sure several of them would have been diagnosed too. 

This is the industry in which I work in, and I've witnessed the increase firsthand, especially with the HFA's.  The high-functioning autistics represent a huge portion of that increase.    I teach the highest functioning students with IEPS, and it's about 10% of my students are identified with Autism as a disability.    I would say about 1/5 have autistic characteristics but have another disability (usually a learning disability).  IMO, the growth represents a large increase of children who are on the spectrum, because there are a number of kids that I grew up with that we tended to think of as odd, who probably were on the spectrum.   While late talking and potty training aren't indicators of autism, there is a strong correlation between them.

The story that @Babyqtboy shared is indicative of how the attitudes have changed.   The idea of punishing a non-verbal autistic child to get them to use the potty blows my mind.  It might work, but it works the same way that people would housebreak their puppy.    I don't even think we do that with puppies anymore, so we damn sure should do that with kids.  I think the biggest difference IMO is convenience of having a child in diapers versus the parent being aware of the child's signals.   I bet if they had Pull Ups when I grew up, I would have worn them until I was six.  Instead I was four, and that was with my mom prompting me to go the bathroom.

[zzyzx]

 

7 hours ago, ValentinesStuff said:

@Babyqtboy

At least part of that increase in the number of diagnosis of Autism is simply that they are diagnosing it more. If I were a kid now, I would almost certainly be diagnosed with it. Also thinking back to kids I knew in school, I'm sure several of them would have been diagnosed too. 

@ValentinesStuff The problem with the current Autism statistics is that the rules of "what is Autism" has changed.  I believe that this point, they are trying to call anyone not neurotypical (i.e. any one that is neurodivergent) as Autistic.....  So even very high functioning neurodivergent folks would now be classified in the current numbers where decades ago, they wouldn't have even been considered.

And yes, taking the available on line tests for this, every one of them tells me to get further diagnosis.....  Something I'm not planning to do at this point....   But it does better explain some thing than anything else I'ver run across.....

[ValentinesStuff]

Autism didn't even become a truly separate thing until I was a teenager. 

[babykeiff]

On 9/5/2023 at 8:43 AM, ValentinesStuff said:

Autism didn't even become a truly separate thing until I was a teenager. 

It is not 'autism' so to speak, or any other label that is used, it is the useage of labels as an excuse why a child is not functional in society. I am not knocking those who deal with a different ability, I am knocking those who chose the label for their offsprring as a way to excuse their lack of actual parental care and/or raising their children.

Today, if you pay people enough, your son/daughter will be given a label that specifies that the child is 'differently abled' and as such, should be placed in 'x' care / skip that queue, be given preferential treatment etc.

I remember a time when honour and self respect meant that even if you were born different, your parents / careers / the world would not bow down to you and you learnt to 'stand on your own feet' etc. where you dealt with any differences that you had to interact with the world - rather than expecting the world to morph to you.

Today, at the entrance to most businesses, is wheelchair parking, a wheelchair ramp plus brail lettering on doors / lift buttons etc. It is not that I am anti-wheelchair user / blind etc., it is more to do with those people who abuse this - i.e. the person who intentionally does not excercise to make themselves fat / obese, and then get one of these 'powered scooters' and demand that the world is rebuilt to suit their laziness. The people that claim for x/y disability yet are well cabable of being self sufficient. There is a person from this world - Stanley Thornton, a capable woodworker (not as productive as most wordworking businesses), but claiming, and getting $800 a month instead of making / selling wood products. His ABDL interest is his own, and is his medical diagnosis, but the fact that his income is from the sweat of others instead of him being self sufficiant is, in my humble opinion, incorrect. This also goes to some elderly who, not because of age, but because of attitude, bully their way through stores demandingly. The same can be said about children claiming to be sufferers of certain label - nut allergy / asthma / autistic / ADHD and the list goes on and on.

Yes, I do see there are a certain few people that do have REAL issues with the above, but not only do they not flaunt it, they try and hide it as a way of self respect and to gain their own independance. These people are deserving of our help and support, not the people that abuse the privledge.

Most members here work - @~Brian~ for example, (sorry to use you as an example), is employed in retail and is wheelchair bound and incontinent due to his medical diagnosis. Still, he WORKS for a living. I don't know his financial status, and I am not asking, but I suspect that he is self sufficiant / working on being so.

This is all about pride and ones self worth, and it annoys me that there are so many people in this world that are too lazy etc. to even support themsleves AND also, those who create offspring not as an addition to the world, but a drag on the already stretched resources of the world.

[ValentinesStuff]

@babykeiff Yes there are plenty of people out there that abuse the system. There are plenty of people out there that are in actual need of help too.

 

Perhaps if I had been diagnosed as a kid I would now have better in person social skills. As it is there are situations that I just don't know how to correctly deal with. It certainly isn't my parents fault, I deal well with people I know. I don't with new people.

 

The idea of "standing on your own two feet" is great, except for those that need a cane, or crutches, or a walker, or a wheelchair. Some people need help, some parents need help, to be honest at some point everyone needs help.

 

It's funny you mention nut allergies. One of my nephews is allergic to nuts, and various other things. He's deathly allergic to peanuts. He's been rushed to the ER several times because of contact with them, and nearly died. In kindergarten or first grade his class was assigned to draw a poster of what they feared/hated. The center of his poster, was a hypodermic needle, 18" long and about 6" wide. His parents had to give some context to the teacher. 

 

So yes there are plenty of people out there that need help. There are also some that abuse it. Is it better to provide help to those that don't truly need it or to deny help to those that do?

[Kawaharu]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:34 AM, babybuddha said:

The article attributes the delay in potty training to factors like "child-led" parenting and the convenience of modern disposable nappies. However, I believe there's another angle to consider: our society's gradual embrace of a more infantilized culture. The popularity of adult onesies, the rise of adult coloring books, and even communities like ours are clear indicators of this trend.

Given the current trajectory, I speculate that in the next decade or so, the average potty training age might edge up to 4 or even 4.5 years. As societal pressures ease and acceptance of individual timelines becomes the norm, parents might feel even more comfortable allowing their children to transition out of nappies at their own pace.

In conclusion, while some might view the delay in potty training as a concern, I see it as a testament to a society that's becoming more understanding, inclusive, and open-minded. It's a world where the lines between childhood and adulthood blur, allowing us to cherish the innocence and wonder of our early years.

At this point, I think we are seeing the day where potty training becomes optional and diapering becomes the norm. We're not that far down the road but seeing where society is headed, I would not be surprised if say 5 to 20 years down the road, potty training becomes an option and diapering becomes the norm in society. If you look at the popularity of adult onesies, adult coloring books, I would not be surprise of the norms about potty training get changed in the world.

I believe in the next decade and my prediction here is that potty training age will get edged up to the point where it becomes an option and those who want to stay in diapers becomes the norm in society. I would not be surprised and shock in this world where their comes a day where potty training becomes an option for people and diapering becomes the norm an accepted in society. On top of that I would not be shocked or surprised if their ever comes a day where being diapered is completely normalized and accepted in society. I can see that in the coming decade where diapers are normal and accepted.

I do believe that delaying potty training is a concern for some but for others they are more accepting maybe in the near future because the way society is now. Society is becoming more understanding, inclusive and accepting of those who delayed potty training or wished to stay diapered, permanently. 

It's why for me, I am all for making potty training an option and all for those who want or wish to stay in diapers permanently.