Ukraine v Russia WW3 or not?

[spark]

8 hours ago, AwakenEvil said:

Nice Pokemon cards you shared there... guess you gotta catch'em all. The fact you had 30 or so links just prove my point even more. I bet you saved those just waiting to use them. But do continue to read BS you are being feed.

You're absurd.  You didn't read any of those links if you think they prove your simplistic point.

I'll restate you're point: Russia invading Ukraine is 100% Biden's fault because he killed US Oil production and was too weak to stop Russia. 

1st of all, it's factually inaccurate.  US Oil production is recovering at the same rate as the rest of the world.  It's an absurd claim that is rife with hyperbole, and entirely simplistic.  When called out on the hyperbole and inaccurate facts, you resorted to juvenile name calling and accusing a Norwegian of voting for Biden.  You re aren't doing a good job expressing your opinion.

FTR- it's entirely too simplistic to accuse Europe of being addicted to cheap Russian Oil.   Russia is the 2nd largest oil exporter, because it's big.   It's largest buyer is China,  by a large margin, but China gets a majority of the oil from the Middle East.    Europe only gets 40% of it's oil from Russia, which is it's biggest importer.    They're not addicted to oil anymore than anybody else.   

This is a very complicated issue, that even the most experienced diplomats are trying to understand.   You've consistently made claims that are inaccurate in an attempt to support your absurdly simplistic view that this situation is 100% the fault of the US Democratic Party.

[AwakenEvil]

1 hour ago, Dubious said:

My point exactly... I'm from Norway..

Even worse. How's them taxes

[spark]

3 hours ago, AwakenEvil said:

Even worse. How's them taxes

Stop with the juvenile attacks.  There is no calling for that, and that has nothing to do with the present situation in Ukraine.

When all you can do is resort to name calling, you don't have a debate.

[Dubious]

2 hours ago, AwakenEvil said:

Even worse. How's them taxes

Lower than your medical bills. 

[warpiper]

19 minutes ago, Dubious said:

Lower than your medical bills. 

Womp womp...

[FretaBWet]

This is just my opinion as an American. We are in deep trouble and it isn't because of Russia, China, Ukraine or Europe. At least not directly. It's completely out own fault. Our lack of security is driven by the divide between the Left and the Right. All we do is argue back and forth and our government swings back and forth further and further. My opinion is this makes us weaker and weaker.

I stopped reading any news months ago. The reason I stopped was simple, every bit of news is propaganda. If you're watching CNN or MSNBC you're watching propaganda that vilifies anything on the right. If you're watching Fox, OAN or Newsmax you're watching propaganda that vilifies everything on the left. The only winners are our politicians. If you think we have freedom you are sadly mistaken. Our politicians are just like Coke and Pepsi. They are both the same, they each claim they are better than the other and if you're buying either you're just paying for something that is unhealthy. You'll just end up fat and diabetic but they keep getting paid.

For those that think America is strong are not really paying attention to the facts. You're just being blinded by the advertising. When was the last time we actually WON a war. Let's examine the facts. We didn't win the Korean War. Technically they are still at war. We were unable to win because China was backing up the North Koreans. This was a China that was without a blue water navy, without ICBM's, without an air force with stealth technology. We lost the war in Vietnam even though we were a first world power and they were a third world power. We really never won in Iraq, we faced an insurgency we couldn't win over or tame. We lost in Afghanistan despite 20 years of trying. You know what we did win? Trillions of dollars wasted on military spending.

Abraham Lincoln said "a house divided against itself cannot stand". This is completely accurate. We will never be strong as long as we are fighting ourselves. We will never have security while we are divided. I don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican. I don't care if you're black or white. I don't care if you're Christian or Muslim. I don't care if your ancestors came over in the Mayflower or on a raft from Cuba. We are all one. If you don't think we are or don't want us to be then you are Unamerican.

Hugs,

Freta

[starman]

On 2/27/2022 at 3:20 PM, AwakenEvil said:

First Off, you should be glad I'm not hurt by silly words cause this could have given you at the least a warning, if not a ban for the use of the R word.

But yes I'm a Trump supporter. I'm sorry if I enjoyed the past president when gas was flowing cheaply for Americans, wages were going up, people had freedoms to choose medical decisions, when there was NO WARS happening, taxes where historically lower, businesses were booming and hiring, etc etc etc. Your boy Biden has ruined all that prosperity. What's the average cost of living today... nearly double. How many threads have we seen about the average cost of goods going up? Several but yeah I'm just a stupid Trumper supporter. Your a moronic voter that hated Trump so badly you voted for Biden which everything we warned about has come true. Nothing under Trump that your leftist side claimed ever came true.

And NATO hasn't done the same? Dude this is war. Expect it to get ugly. You think if he actually nukes a NATO country we won't return in favor? That's simply Saber rattling. He won't use nukes. He knows as we know at that point it's over.

The bigger and likely the best course of action is to allow Ukrainian nation to fall and strengthen our NATO nations with deterrence.

If not, this will happen again. Who else isn't a NATO nation should either join NATO or defend their land properly. Had Ukraine had its nuclear weapons I don't think Russia would have been so bold.

Another Key point which ive said. Repeatedly. STOP BUYING CHEAP OIL FROM RUSSIA. STOP ACTING LIKE CHINA ISNT A BIGGER THREAT. If we took them both more seriously as dangerous rogue nations at a minimum we could handle this is a different approach. That means doing the hard thing by remove the corruption in our governments. But you know what... while we have illusion of choice and (Citizens of our respected Nations) average citizen can get double cheese and fries for $2.99 and catch the newest episode of The Mandalorian on DisneyPlus nothing will change until its too late for change.

I SUGGEST YOU SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP WITH YOUR PROBLEM ,AS OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SAID YOU ARE SERIOUSLY ILL IN YOUR HEAD , UNTIL YOU SEEK HELP WITH IT YOU are just going to carry on sucking TRUMP ass 

[AwakenEvil]

2 hours ago, starman said:

I SUGGEST YOU SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP WITH YOUR PROBLEM ,AS OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SAID YOU ARE SERIOUSLY ILL IN YOUR HEAD , UNTIL YOU SEEK HELP WITH IT YOU are just going to carry on sucking TRUMP ass 

Seems to be living rent free in your head.

[DailyDi]

I'll leave the politics to others, but I am sure impressed with the courage of the Ukrainians holding their cities!

[AwakenEvil]

36 minutes ago, DailyDi said:

I'll leave the politics to others, but I am sure impressed with the courage of the Ukrainians holding their cities!

Fighting for freedom FOR sure. Would you wanna go back to communism? Hell no I'd assume. I figure that's what they are fighting like hell for!

[spark]

3 hours ago, AwakenEvil said:

Fighting for freedom FOR sure. Would you wanna go back to communism? Hell no I'd assume. I figure that's what they are fighting like hell for!

No- you still don't know what you're talking about.

They are fighting for their homes.   

From what I've read, Putin thought the Ukrainians wouldn't fight for the government and gladly accept Russians into the country.  Unfortunately for him- they reacted to Russians as invaders.  Russia and Ukraine were sort of like USA and Canada, and now they will see Russia as an invader for multiple generations.  It doesn't matter if they win the battle- they will not be able win the war.

[ValentinesStuff]

Hehehe

 

https://jalopnik.com/russian-company-outsourced-the-main-components-in-ev-ch-1848603252/amp

 

Just a tiny thing, but every bit helps.

[Dubious]

Everyone is banning Russia from everything, so they will be just like North-Korea in the future.
They cant go outside Russia, and they will have to make all their own products. 

[saltedcaramel64]

36 minutes ago, Dubious said:

Everyone is banning Russia from everything, so they will be just like North-Korea in the future.
They cant go outside Russia, and they will have to make all their own products. 

China will still trade with them and the west is not boycotting Russian oil.  The sanctions and boycots will have little effect.

[ValentinesStuff]

53 minutes ago, saltedcaramel64 said:

China will still trade with them and the west is not boycotting Russian oil.  The sanctions and boycots will have little effect.

Sure if the Russians don't mind 20+% interest rates, the inability to access foreign holdings, the Ruble crashing.

 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/28/business/russia-ruble-banks-sanctions/index.html

 

[babykeiff]

I'm well aware that this is a site for those who have an interest / fetish / need for, what the world percieves as infantile garments, bit please stop behaving like children and throwing your plushies out of the pram / at everyone else.

Back on topic-

Politicians worldwide are the same despite what they say. The ones in power take credit for the previous mobs actions, and we are foolish to believe what the media publish about them. In USA exactly the same worldwide there are liars, cheats and theives that try and convince the world that their ideas are better than the previous liar / cheat theif.

If you read your history, this type of government is a copy of the corrupt form of Roman government, and is supposed to be 'democracy' where an elected person / group work for and on behalf of those who elected them, and answer to them.

Test this one out for yourselves - try and phone your president... you will not be able to talk to him/her... yet they were the very person knocking on your door begging for you to vote for them only a few years ago. What made them 'gods'?

In relation to the incident Russia v Ukraine, it seems to me that this is growing to become an all out war. Across Europe, governments are preparing to conscript 18-50 year olds to assist in the 'peace force' against Russia. 5 million Ukrainian people have left Ukraine already, and that number is growing daily. 18-55 year old males are staying to fight. 44m population, 20m staying to fight, 24m leaving, and being welcomed in by their neighbouring countries with food, clothes, supplies and places to stay - and that includes all the countries that surround Ukraine, plus others across Europe that include China etc.

The sanctions / boycotts, as @saltedcaramel64 stated may have little effect once Europe, and maybe US get into this war. In WW2, certain measures were forced on Germany etc, where they reverted to manufacture of cars etc instead of weapons etc. That grew Germany into a engineering giant, with China / Japan the only competition. It also was one of the factors that collapsed the US car manufacturing industry.

So saying that this 'Russia v Ukraine' incident will not effect US and that Trump / Biden and sanctions will help is fiction. Politicians help themselves first and always.

War anywhere in the world costs the world in the short and long term. Whether this will esculate into WW3 is no longer a question. When is now the question.

[deewet]

This banter is almost getting comical, to see some of what is believed by many of us being reported, but is also a wakeup call or should be!

As an engineer for many years, prior to my retirement, I must point out a few UNDISPUTED facts, and  as I said, I have never written anything in my career that I could not support with undisputed data, that was the secret to my 35yrs of successful employment.

Some have said that all media is providing propaganda, well most of it is for sure, but there are a few that at least provide ALL the stories of importance that are occurring, as opposed to many that only tell you what they want you to hear. 

As to the importance of fossil fuels to our economy, again the focus seems to be only on motor fuel and elimination of such as a form or "Cleaning up the environment"  Never mind that the vehicles and planes that we use today are two to three times more energy efficient than we have ever used, or that many urban utility vehicles are being converted to natural gas, and the portion of barrels of oil used today for vehicles is declining as a result, oil use is still very important to our economy.  Please understand that oil is used to make plastics and resins, used to make many fertilizers and agri products, used even to make many fabrics IE polyxx cloth is all from oil.  

And than of course there is the use of natural gas, which is derived primary from OIL EXPLORATION which has fallen sharply over this last year despite what some have said here.  This despite our country just 18 mos ago being oil independent to now having to import again barrels of oil, a good portion is from Russia who is greatly  benefiting from the increase in the huge rise in oil price world wide.  If you don't believe this, check out what happened to Russia GDP to debt ratio, and compare it to what is happening in our USA.

Back to the natural gas that majority of us heat our homes with now, as well as generate a lot of the electricity we use with switching from coal and heavy oil in past,  that many believe is the "Best" energy source.  Just over this last year, the cost of NG has gone from almost the lowest in past 20 years to highest since the Carter years.  Why has that happened you may wonder if as some say, we are producing more oil than ever, but than why are we importing again?  Why have the capital managers stopped making money available to energy speculation company's for exploration.  What did the loss of  pipelines do to cost of energy?  Why is the current administration asking  OPEC and Russia to pump more oil but still not allowing exploration on public lands, or allowing their banking friends to open the money spigots for exploration, or for that matter still holding up the permits for multiple LNG (liquified natural gas) sites to be built near ports which would allow us to export NG as it should become available again?  

The facts are the politics and policy's of those have  dealt a crippling blow to our economy' energy sectors not only in energy being produced but in the cost of goods to consumers, and employment lost as a result, that is a fact that is undisputed.  Energy does matter, alternative forms are great as they become available, but even than, fossil fuel is a critical part of our economy, the world economy, so why are there restrictions now  on the most regulated and cleanest production of that oil, in favor of others in the world doing it while believing that we really don't need it???

 

About stopping  or starting wars, I really don't want to get into that but if anyone is interested, check out which political  party's were in power historically when wars were started as opposed to when the fighting stopped?  It should be interesting reading, unless you believe it is propaganda than there is little hope to change your mind.

 

[babykeiff]

39 minutes ago, deewet said:

This banter is almost getting comical, to see some of what is believed by many of us being reported, but is also a wakeup call or should be!

As an engineer for many years, prior to my retirement, I must point out a few UNDISPUTED facts, and  as I said, I have never written anything in my career that I could not support with undisputed data, that was the secret to my 35yrs of successful employment.

Some have said that all media is providing propaganda, well most of it is for sure, but there are a few that at least provide ALL the stories of importance that are occurring, as opposed to many that only tell you what they want you to hear. 

As to the importance of fossil fuels to our economy, again the focus seems to be only on motor fuel and elimination of such as a form or "Cleaning up the environment"  Never mind that the vehicles and planes that we use today are two to three times more energy efficient than we have ever used, or that many urban utility vehicles are being converted to natural gas, and the portion of barrels of oil used today for vehicles is declining as a result, oil use is still very important to our economy.  Please understand that oil is used to make plastics and resins, used to make many fertilizers and agri products, used even to make many fabrics IE polyxx cloth is all from oil.  

And than of course there is the use of natural gas, which is derived primary from OIL EXPLORATION which has fallen sharply over this last year despite what some have said here.  This despite our country just 18 mos ago being oil independent to now having to import again barrels of oil, a good portion is from Russia who is greatly  benefiting from the increase in the huge rise in oil price world wide.  If you don't believe this, check out what happened to Russia GDP to debt ratio, and compare it to what is happening in our USA.

Back to the natural gas that majority of us heat our homes with now, as well as generate a lot of the electricity we use with switching from coal and heavy oil in past,  that many believe is the "Best" energy source.  Just over this last year, the cost of NG has gone from almost the lowest in past 20 years to highest since the Carter years.  Why has that happened you may wonder if as some say, we are producing more oil than ever, but than why are we importing again?  Why have the capital managers stopped making money available to energy speculation company's for exploration.  What did the loss of  pipelines do to cost of energy?  Why is the current administration asking  OPEC and Russia to pump more oil but still not allowing exploration on public lands, or allowing their banking friends to open the money spigots for exploration, or for that matter still holding up the permits for multiple LNG (liquified natural gas) sites to be built near ports which would allow us to export NG as it should become available again?  

The facts are the politics and policy's of those have  dealt a crippling blow to our economy' energy sectors not only in energy being produced but in the cost of goods to consumers, and employment lost as a result, that is a fact that is undisputed.  Energy does matter, alternative forms are great as they become available, but even than, fossil fuel is a critical part of our economy, the world economy, so why are there restrictions now  on the most regulated and cleanest production of that oil, in favor of others in the world doing it while believing that we really don't need it???

 

About stopping  or starting wars, I really don't want to get into that but if anyone is interested, check out which political  party's were in power historically when wars were started as opposed to when the fighting stopped?  It should be interesting reading, unless you believe it is propaganda than there is little hope to change your mind.

 

As you are doubtly aware, most energy in the world is created from fossil (or more correctly carbon based) sources. This is highly damaging to the environment with plastics being the worst, in my opinion. The lies that the world has been told is that gas (in all its forms) is better than oil etc. That is a lie. It is the least efficient and most pollutant per therm (unit of heat) produced as compared to oil, coal, or any other fuel. The only difference is that its pollutant is not visible in the air.

The creation of all plastics use a man made chemical bonding of multiple materials, that bond forever. As a result, there is no natural way that plastic can be broken down and recycled. Scientist have estimated that if humans were eliminated from the world today, in about 100 years, nature would take over leaving no footprint that man was ever here. That is unless you dig a few feet into the soil, where you would find particles of plastics still there... and remaining there for trillions of years.

Evaluating the use of plastics, trillions of tons are used for food packaging - where food like fruit, potatoes etc are placed into a plastic bag.... this food has its own protective packaging. Paper is the alternative that is fully reusable.

In relation to electricity generation, there are alternatives like solar, wind, wave etc combined with low energy use devices, but to change from 'big oil' to other sources would be a loss for these oil / gas suppliers.

For years, the world was being mislead telling us that the polution source was cows (methane), domestic usage etc.... however the world found out that during the past two years, when we took aircraft out of the skies, and we were all working from home with only ships and trucks (delivery systems) still running, areas that seemed to be beyind cleaning (canals in venice, rivers and lakes) became crystal clear with visible life in them.

This war seems to me as an engineered worldwide distraction from the true green ideas that were proven for the last two years. Across the world, cities are only partially occupied with many working from home, and businesses wanting that. From a financial perspective, it is cheaper to have all your staff at their home rather than pay for stationary, office space and its maintence. It works out to be 30-75% of ones salary savings to have staff working from home. The only people today that it is costing is the politicians etc in their loss of taxes and kickbacks. See Louis Rossman and his comments re New York City, and what the Mayor of that city is looking for!

[AwakenEvil]

7 hours ago, spark said:

No- you still don't know what you're talking about.

They are fighting for their homes.   

From what I've read, Putin thought the Ukrainians wouldn't fight for the government and gladly accept Russians into the country.  Unfortunately for him- they reacted to Russians as invaders.  Russia and Ukraine were sort of like USA and Canada, and now they will see Russia as an invader for multiple generations.  It doesn't matter if they win the battle- they will not be able win the war.

Your level of stupidity is outstanding.

55 minutes ago, deewet said:

This banter is almost getting comical, to see some of what is believed by many of us being reported, but is also a wakeup call or should be!

As an engineer for many years, prior to my retirement, I must point out a few UNDISPUTED facts, and  as I said, I have never written anything in my career that I could not support with undisputed data, that was the secret to my 35yrs of successful employment.

Some have said that all media is providing propaganda, well most of it is for sure, but there are a few that at least provide ALL the stories of importance that are occurring, as opposed to many that only tell you what they want you to hear. 

As to the importance of fossil fuels to our economy, again the focus seems to be only on motor fuel and elimination of such as a form or "Cleaning up the environment"  Never mind that the vehicles and planes that we use today are two to three times more energy efficient than we have ever used, or that many urban utility vehicles are being converted to natural gas, and the portion of barrels of oil used today for vehicles is declining as a result, oil use is still very important to our economy.  Please understand that oil is used to make plastics and resins, used to make many fertilizers and agri products, used even to make many fabrics IE polyxx cloth is all from oil.  

And than of course there is the use of natural gas, which is derived primary from OIL EXPLORATION which has fallen sharply over this last year despite what some have said here.  This despite our country just 18 mos ago being oil independent to now having to import again barrels of oil, a good portion is from Russia who is greatly  benefiting from the increase in the huge rise in oil price world wide.  If you don't believe this, check out what happened to Russia GDP to debt ratio, and compare it to what is happening in our USA.

Back to the natural gas that majority of us heat our homes with now, as well as generate a lot of the electricity we use with switching from coal and heavy oil in past,  that many believe is the "Best" energy source.  Just over this last year, the cost of NG has gone from almost the lowest in past 20 years to highest since the Carter years.  Why has that happened you may wonder if as some say, we are producing more oil than ever, but than why are we importing again?  Why have the capital managers stopped making money available to energy speculation company's for exploration.  What did the loss of  pipelines do to cost of energy?  Why is the current administration asking  OPEC and Russia to pump more oil but still not allowing exploration on public lands, or allowing their banking friends to open the money spigots for exploration, or for that matter still holding up the permits for multiple LNG (liquified natural gas) sites to be built near ports which would allow us to export NG as it should become available again?  

The facts are the politics and policy's of those have  dealt a crippling blow to our economy' energy sectors not only in energy being produced but in the cost of goods to consumers, and employment lost as a result, that is a fact that is undisputed.  Energy does matter, alternative forms are great as they become available, but even than, fossil fuel is a critical part of our economy, the world economy, so why are there restrictions now  on the most regulated and cleanest production of that oil, in favor of others in the world doing it while believing that we really don't need it???

 

About stopping  or starting wars, I really don't want to get into that but if anyone is interested, check out which political  party's were in power historically when wars were started as opposed to when the fighting stopped?  It should be interesting reading, unless you believe it is propaganda than there is little hope to change your mind.

 

This guy gets it.

[spark]

11 hours ago, AwakenEvil said:

Your level of stupidity is outstanding.

This guy gets it.

I'm appalled that you're a moderator.

You have no ability to engage in a discussion with anybody who doesn't fit into your narrow view of the world.

 

FTR- Russia is NOT Communist.  If you think they currently are Communist, you A: don't know what Communism is.  B: Have a very narrow Americentric view of the world

I don't mind your politics, but you have zero understanding what is happening.  I know 9th graders who understand this better than you.  Not one of your facts is correct.  But your only retort is to call me stupid.  FTR- being called stupid by an ignorant person is not an insult.

[AwakenEvil]

46 minutes ago, spark said:

I'm appalled that you're a moderator.

You have no ability to engage in a discussion with anybody who doesn't fit into your narrow view of the world.

 

FTR- Russia is NOT Communist.  If you think they currently are Communist, you A: don't know what Communism is.  B: Have a very narrow Americentric view of the world

I don't mind your politics, but you have zero understanding what is happening.  I know 9th graders who understand this better than you.  Not one of your facts is correct.  But your only retort is to call me stupid.  FTR- being called stupid by an ignorant person is not an insult.

Seriously I don't even know why I respond to someone that clearly has an IQ below 30. Do yourself a favor and find someone else to bother. You have nothing factual nor anything to add to this conversation. All I've heard from you so far is baseless fear mongering from your idiotic point of view. Go find a soy latte and leave me out of your conversation.

[DailyDi]

[feralfreak]

we have this thread going off the rails, dailydi, i dont mean to tell you how to run your board, you know what you are doing, but if i might state an opinion(and i know they are like assholes, we all have them, no one wants to hear them), before anyone gets in trouble, shouldnt this be locked? its getting off topic and ugly.

[AwakenEvil]

3 hours ago, feralfreak said:

we have this thread going off the rails, dailydi, i dont mean to tell you how to run your board, you know what you are doing, but if i might state an opinion(and i know they are like assholes, we all have them, no one wants to hear them), before anyone gets in trouble, shouldnt this be locked? its getting off topic and ugly.

Agreed