Tsa Abd Diapers

[Alan UK]

I used to come over to the States three or four times every year, but after quite a few terrible experiences with the TSA I no longer bother - I usually go to Canada or mid-Europe instead. Whilst many Americans will say that they don't care, I will not be the only person doing this - there will be hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people choosing to spend their time and money elsewhere in the world. I guess that America doesn't need money at the moment. Ho hum.

[Bettypooh]

BriGuy, it's sad to hear about the bike thing Back when I was riding, a local manufacturer teamed up with the Red cross to put on a Bike Show and poker run, will all the money to be donated to the Red Cross Turned out that the Cops were asking to search every bike that went in My lawyer back then was also a Judge, and on hearing and conforming that decided that he was turning his Harley around and not going in there. He wasn't breaking any laws and he knew the Cops were in the wrong. Had he continued in, it would have been his legal compulsion to ask for the criminals (Cops) to be prosecuted because of his being a Judge. His stance was that it is always best to avoid trouble rather than confront it, even when you are in the right. I told him that I disagreed, but that in his situation versus the other attendees, I could see his dilemma I also heard from several people who refused to allow the illegal search of their machines. Most were allowed in when they made the claim that they would gladly stay right there until a warrant for that search came through- otherwise they would not allow a search and would risk arrest and go in anyway. The Cops knew who held the legal high ground, but continued the illegal searches as much as they could anyway. Only patch-holders who refused being illegally searched were denied entrance. I would have been there refusing the search too but I had to work

But you are right- Congress has passed several unconstitutional laws since 9/11 and the TSA and other agencies are acting illegally now, in direct violation of our Constitution. I expect those laws to be eventually overthrown, but I won't opine when that will happen, as most people are supporting them in their personal ignorance of the Constitution and it's relation to this. As with many other subjects it is clear that such unconstitutional laws cannot stand, but until that ruling is made we must suffer following them or violating them- and that's all we can do I'm too poor to deal with the violation or I'd push this thing along. Justice is not intended for the poor in the US

AlanUK, I am sad for you but I understand completely. Hopefully this will be remedied soon so we can enjoy your visits again.

Bettypooh

[Dubious]

My dream was to sometime go to the US

My dream now is to go to the UK

[Guest]

Americans do have a right to be secure in their person, home, and personal papers against unreasonable search and seizure. That is in the Constitution, and the TSA clearly violates that law.

Bettypooh

Go back and read your paraphrasing again. Even though its not word fr word out of the 4th amendment you got the gist of it right, but you are not reading it carefully enough.

It says that americans are free from UNREASONABLE searches and seizures. It does not say all searches and seizures...

There is more than a reasonable basis to search all people that fly, namely because one dude with ill intentions can ruin the lives of thousands.

I dont like it either but no court i going to say that airport searches are unreasonable, especially with a demonstrated foreseeability of bombings and hijackings...

[Bettypooh]

The issue of what is "unreasonable" is the crux of this part of this discussion. As I see it (and as has been deemed in many court rulings) it in not reasonable to subject anyone to a search without a specific reason pointing to a high probability of that specific individual breaking a law requiring such a search It must be a notable and specific reason- it cannot be a generality such as "most of the terrorists we've seen are Arabic", nor can it be specific but unlikely such as "they had a string in their pocket and string can be used to make fuses".

To illustrate these points: If a person were Arabic, had a bulky object in their pocket, and were acting nervously then maybe there would be probable cause for a search- otherwise no. And string is rarely used as the basis for making a fuse even though it is possible, so without additional corroborating information, possession of string is not enough basis for a search. It has been held legal that random non-searching inspections may be used in certain circumstances to determine if illegal actions are occurring. An example of this is checkpoints on a roadway for license, registration, and insurance proof while seeking drunk drivers. In these situations they are not allowed to detain you without having found further proof of illegal activities, nor may they cause any person who does not appear to be breaking the law excessive delay while doing this. Plus these inspections cannot be over minor things, but only for things which can imminently cause great harm to the generally innocent public.

I think that some group profiling could be justified, for instance with persons exhibiting known specific gang symbols (not just a blue or red shirt) and maybe specific races when the overwhelming majority of the persons doing those illegal activities are from a specific racial background and from no other. I know of no legal cases addressing this nor am I proposing this as being proper- I am only pointing out that there is a possibility that this could be legal when approached in this manner. I could equally be wrong.

The real problem is in the wholesale indemnification of any governmental agency against being legally questioned and prosecuted over their activities, in those said agencies being given powers which have already been deemed illegal in previous Federal Court rulings, and in those agents not restraining themselves to singling out only the persons who exhibit clear evidence of probable illegal activities. That is what rubs me wrong- not the attempt to make traveling on a public conveyance safer which I fully support.

I just want those efforts to be totally legal and as effective as possible within the bounds of law, with the persons conducting those operations having to be legally responsible for any misdeeds which occur while they are doing that. In the case of the TSA this is not currently happening If we continue to allow it there is every possibility of, and a history of, other agencies following suit with si9milar activities. I would also like to see our courts forced to make specific rulings of the laws being brought into question before them, which they are not currently required to do (though this veers off-topic).

With it being widely and publicly known that many people having Incontinence, and with no evidence of diapers being used to conceal illegal activities any more often than any other forms of underwear, there is no cause or reason for a person to receive undue attention for possessing or wearing diapers anywhere whether they are incontinent or not.

Bettypooh

[rusty pins]

Here is another thought on air travel that dosn't have to do with the TSA. Some airlines are now charging to bring a bag on board and store it in the overhead compartment. WTF! Isn't that what the overhead is for? I'm not talking about a huge suitcase here, but a small one. We are being nickle and dimed by some airlines now. Pretty soon if we want to travel we will have to wear one shirt and one pair of pants for the entire stay of our trip to avoid any baggage fees. maybe we can stick a toothbrush and extra pair of socks in our pocket. We will have to buy our deoderant and toothpaste at a Wallgreens when we get to where we are going. If we need a change of underwear, well, that's another selling point for Depends! "Folks, we know how much airlines are charging now for baggage! Why bother when you can simply stop at any store and buy a package of our disposable designer underwear! DOn't pay extra baggage charges! Spend the money wisely on our disposable underpants and feel fresh and clean each day! Just throw them away each morning and put on a fresh pair and save money!" I guess that's why we see more and more "Travel Size" shampoos, toothpaste, deoderant and now even 5 packs of Depends on shelves! And guess what? All those little "Travel Size" toiletries cost about twice as much as the larger regular sizes! You gotta love how marketing works!

[gsuabdl]

Here is another thought on air travel that dosn't have to do with the TSA. Some airlines are now charging to bring a bag on board and store it in the overhead compartment.

Well, assuming you are not in a bulkhead seat, you still have space for a small bag under the seat in front of you.

[gweg]

Well, assuming you are not in a bulkhead seat, you still have space for a small bag under the seat in front of you.

Also if you declare a medical needs bag they can't charge you for that or even count it as a carry on bag,

just don't pack anything extraordinary in it. I had a rifle shell inadvertently in mine one time and boy was that a pain.

[turtlepins]

This was an interesting discussion topic. I flew a few months ago from the Left to the East Coast. LAX is a nightmare! I wear gauze prefold diapers and plastic pants, have a medical card explaining this and why, and they dithered about allowing me to keep my pins. One of them even made the comment that they were wet and asked why! Staring at him for several seconds I finally asked if he was serious. "Why do you think I wear them?" I asked. At that point a supervisor apologized for the inconvenience and told me I could go. The whole thing was okay, just stupid. I do love wearing diapers, no matter what I have to go through, so it was okay. So was the flight.

[Amyuser]

Let me just say this …..

As an American if i where to be flying international back to the USA I am Both Incontinent and in a Power Wheelchair for Mobility i would let them fondle my diapers like they where selecting the finest material for their new suit and give them the pdf service manual all 3000 pages and the tools to take my wheelchair apart and put it back together again if they wanted to, and you know why i say this because it sure beats some jerk blowing my freakin Airliner up over some Godforsaken place over the ocean where if the explosion does not kill you, the sudden stop at the bottom does not kill you, all the blood and body parts of others who did die will attract sharks and they will eat you before any rescue effort could be mounted in the vicinity of where the plane dropped of radar. so i am willing to give a little to get back to the USA safely and hoping everyone and there luggage is as willing as i am to get back here safely,the thought of an Armed air marshall don't mean Squat to a bomb fight.

Nappy

[Dubious]

Only way to hinder that is do not allow any carry-on at all and put everyone in cuffs and chains

[gsuabdl]

I just got back from a flight and thought I would share my experience.

I showed up at the airport already in diapers and wearing a onsie (with plastic snaps luckily) under my normal cloths. In my bag I had extra diapers, onzies, wipes, plastic pants, small roll of trash bags, and a pair of thick training pants. When I went through security, I had no problem with scanner or anything like that, but my book bag did get flagged for search after going through the X-ray machine. The problem ended up being the roll of small trash bags. She asked if I had any liquids or lotions in my bag, which I said I didn't. When she found my dinosaur print onsie, she asked if they were my pajamas. Not wanting to elaborate, I said yes. She said they were cute and searched the rest of the bag. At this point I was just a little embarrassed so I focused on putting my shoes back on. She found the trash bags but searched through the rest of the bag looking for other liquids without any more comments. She took the trash bags out and ran them through the X-ray in a plastic bin separate from the bag. The TSA agent did have a small laugh with the X-Ray operator as I waited, but i couldn't hear what they were talking about. I was given my bag back and everything and was on my way.

On my return trip I placed the roll of trash bags in the bin with my shoes and didn't have any problems.

[ItchyTasty]

Hope this doesn't offend anyone, but just curious....

Really strange question, but do they search private cavities too? I heard the police do that in custody when looking for drugs.

And also when a girl is on her period that creates liquid, (well blood is a liquid), so is that checked as a cavity seearch of a tampon especially would be embrassing and outrageous. Unless she also has to change before a flight...

But still could possibly be misused by a terrorist if he or she decides to put liquid filled tampons up his or her arse(or vagina if it's a girl),LMFAO

[Baby Brian]

The TSA isn't living in a Hollywood movie. The only time they will do a body cavity search is when you're in line acting strange and something else strange comes up on the scanners, then after taking you to the side and talking to you, you become uncooperative, things escalate with security so they take you to a secured room, you fail to give any good explanations in the interview, they do a background check, and at that point a strip search would be warranted. If they have been given reason to suspect more, then it is possible that a medical examiner could be called in to also perform a body cavity search (of course by then you're probably already going to jail any ways).

In nearly every case the worse scenario you'll see is what gsuabdl went through. Remember the news of the elderly grandma who was stripped searched because she was wearing a diaper? Well you probably don't know it was actually because of her insubordinate, lawywer of a daughter who was challenging the TSA's right to ask personal questions and fully pat down an elderly person. The grandma was cooperative, but the daughter wasn't. She tried arguing with the TSA and got them both in trouble then she escalated it worse from there. Afterwords she went to the media and made the story worse than it really was. Didn't you ever wonder why the story just faded away, well now you know.

The TSA sees so many people who travel with a diaper on most could care less about it than you think. Those few who snicker about it, or worse, give you a hard time about wearing a diaper are the ones who are insecure about them selves and are threatened by anything they consider abnormal or outside their narrow scope of reality. It's like homophobes where someone else being gay actually frightens them, challenges their narrow beliefs, or whatever, so they lash out. Same thing really. That's why I don't angry at them, I pitty the fools instead.

[rosalie.bent]

The real question is not what is being done now but what happens next. Every security measure simply makes the terrorists need to be cleverer - and they are. Liquid explosives only happened because other types were not detected. it reminds me of the software piracy debate and the history of it which is that no matter WHAT security system is put in place, it can be defeated by a motivated pirate. it got to the stage where software was becoming unusable because of dongles, online registration and needing to check a server every so often. Activation software is not that hard to defeat. The software industry has learned (and the RIAA has yet to learn) that you cannot defeat pirates and so you need to look for better avenues. The terrorism debate needs to eventually move to the popint where you realise you cannto eliminate it - only defend and protect and do your best but accept that you cannot always be free of the risk. When you do that you can learn to accept REASONABLE search and not the current ever-escalating situation which will be that no one is allowe on with a stripsearch and not luggage at all can be taken by air. Thats the destination if you are not willing to accept that you cannot defeat people who are so motivated that they do not value their own lives and certainly not yours.

[thickdiaperedbaby]

The TSA does not, nor does it have the authority to, conduct cavity searches. Remember, unlike police officers, and despite what many of these people seem to think, they are NOT sworn law enforcement officers.

[Baby Brian]

The TSA does not, nor does it have the authority to, conduct cavity searches. Remember, unlike police officers, and despite what many of these people seem to think, they are NOT sworn law enforcement officers.

Agree, they don't have the ability to arrest/detain you either but that doesn't mean they can't call in the cops to arrest you and a medical examiner to search you right there on the spot. Of course, as I said before you'd have to escalate things pretty far to get to that point.

[Mr. Sea Otter]

I fly a lot....I've had platnium or gold status as a frequent flier for over 5 years now. I wear diapers 24/7 and always carry a couple of spares with me in my carry on baggage. In all my time flying I have never once had anyone from TSA ask me about my diapers, or make me take my clothes off or even so much as blink. And this includes times when I did have my carry on searched by hand, or when I went through the new body scanning machines, or when I have had a pat down and 'additional screening'. They have seen my diapers, both in my bag, and on my body and they just dont care.

[Floaty_Boy]

I just got back from an international trip. Both departing airports, in the States and International, had the body scanners, but neither one used them! I didn't quite understand that bit -- "Hey! Let's spend tens of thousands of dollars on new technology that we're just going to let sit there and look menacing." Hmmm... Maybe that was the point...

Anyway, I was wearing an Abena M3 and plastic pants each way, with two changes and a pair of plastic pants in my carry-on bag, which was also had a Nintendo DS, an IPod, a smartphone, headphones, a calculator, spare batteries, and the chargers for everything. Nothing was said, nothing was pulled aside for a search, thank you for your cooperation, have a good flight!

--Floaty

[Dubious]

Scanners in US have been "banned", i dont remember why, but i guess it had something to do with cancer..

[dljim95]

Yesterday I had to fly to Phoenix from Ontario for a one day business trip. It never fails that since I wear cloth diapers 24/7 I always get called aside for a pat down when I go into the full body scanner. The guy yesterday was more thorough then most and while Patting my diapered butt a little to long for my liking he asked what I was wearing. I do not why, but I told him it was a diaper. I never seen an agent complete his task so quick.

[Dirty Diaper/Maxipad Lover]

Scanners in US have been "banned", i dont remember why, but i guess it had something to do with cancer..

Zpeed, the scanners haven't been banned in the US. I literally went through one at LAX earlier this month. Cancer is a concern though, and had I known I was in the line for the scanner I would have chosen a different line and taken the enhanced pat-down instead.

The thing I really hate about the body scanners, aside from having to stand "execution style" for 72 seconds while being irradiated, is that you can't take ANYTHING through them. I don't like leaving my wallet out of my site, and I don't appreciate having to have it scanned separately from my other stuff, especially when a TSA agent could have visually inspected it. With a normal metal detector and standard pat-down I could leave my wallet and my tissues in my pockets or just show them to the TSA agent.

[willnotwill]

Both kinds are certainly still in operation. I was put in the nudovision both ways (different machine style) when I went to Colorado a few weeks back.

Yes I was diapered, and no there wasn't an issue. They did check my arms because I must have moved while I was getting scanned or something.

It was rather silly as I was wearing a short sleeve shirt and couldn't possibly have anything on them.

I do try not to be wet or poopy when going through the machines though.

[willnotwill]

[Dubious]

apparently it only affected europe

US is about the only "country" wich dosent care about their citizens