A Bad Day For America

[redneck diaper boy]

The United States Government is poised to take over the US healthcare system.

The US House of Representatives just passed a really bad healthcare bill. This bill fails to cover everyone.

The cost of this reform is trillions of dollars. The cost will be born by small and large business.

Upon enactment, everyone would be forced to purchase health insurance. If you fail to purchase health insurance, you could go to prison.

In the future, it will be illegal to purchase private health insurance.

There are provisions in the bill to ration healthcare.

There is a provision that makes it illegal to limit attorney fees in malpractice litigation.

Bend over America. The government is going to stick a pool que up your ass sideways!

[Pudding]

The US House of Representatives just passed a really bad healthcare bill. This bill fails to cover everyone.

Lie

The cost of this reform is trillions of dollars. The cost will be born by small and large business.

The cost will be borne by everybody, but will still be SIGNIFICANTLY less than profiteering HMO's. It's worth noting that I live in a country with Universal Healthcare and our average rate of taxes is lower than yours, so don't try and get the fear machine in action by saying it will cost everybody too much, etc etc.

Upon enactment, everyone would be forced to purchase health insurance.

No. You will be PROVIDED free healthcare.

In the future, it will be illegal to purchase private health insurance.

Blatant lie. The system is similar to any other country with Universal Healthcare; and this system allows for private health-care to exist alongside and complimentary to universal.

There are provisions in the bill to ration healthcare.

Another lie. You're confusing a national triage-based-assessment system whereby people with non-life-threatening conditions will obviously not be placed in front of people with such conditions. This does not equal rationing; it equals "every life has the same value" and it doesn't matter how much money you have; if the man next to you is dying and you're not? He gets treatment first.

To be honest, I'm fairly certain that outside of Arty and maybe one or two others; pretty much everybody here is sick and tired of your repeated attempts to brainwash people with your silly, out of date, and downright dangerous, points of view.

[sarah_ab]

some of us like it up the ass.

[Pudding]

some of us like it up the ass.

Feels *so* good! <3

[Guest NaughtyAshes]

some of us like it up the ass.

I've never heard something so full of win. Quote of the week! lol!

[Newroad]

Lie

The cost will be borne by everybody, but will still be SIGNIFICANTLY less than profiteering HMO's. It's worth noting that I live in a country with Universal Healthcare and our average rate of taxes is lower than yours, so don't try and get the fear machine in action by saying it will cost everybody too much, etc etc.

No. You will be PROVIDED free healthcare.

Blatant lie. The system is similar to any other country with Universal Healthcare; and this system allows for private health-care to exist alongside and complimentary to universal.

Another lie. You're confusing a national triage-based-assessment system whereby people with non-life-threatening conditions will obviously not be placed in front of people with such conditions. This does not equal rationing; it equals "every life has the same value" and it doesn't matter how much money you have; if the man next to you is dying and you're not? He gets treatment first.

To be honest, I'm fairly certain that outside of Arty and maybe one or two others; pretty much everybody here is sick and tired of your repeated attempts to brainwash people with your silly, out of date, and downright dangerous, points of view.

Let me get this straight.. " the cost will be born by everyone." " Healthcare will be free." New Math? Liberal minded individuals will be all for this "new" system right up until they are told they have to wait.. Be careful what you wish for.

[Pudding]

Let me get this straight.. " the cost will be born by everyone." " Healthcare will be free." New Math? Liberal minded individuals will be all for this "new" system right up until they are told they have to wait.. Be careful what you wish for.

While I did intend to read as free as in "no upfront cost", the definition of free as in "freedom", the right to good health - works just as well.

Stop listening to the news; start listening to people who have had this system for decades. It works.

[Dougie]

You live in Australia. Where do you get you're information from?

[Pudding]

The fact that we have an Universal Healthcare system that works; and is very very similar to the one being rolled out in the US?

[Dougie]

I'm not talking about if it works or not. I'm referring to the parts you are declaring lies. Without evidence, YOU are the one telling lies.

[toddmdl]

The United States Government is poised to take over the US healthcare system.

The US House of Representatives just passed a really bad healthcare bill. This bill fails to cover everyone.

The cost of this reform is trillions of dollars. The cost will be born by small and large business.

Upon enactment, everyone would be forced to purchase health insurance. If you fail to purchase health insurance, you could go to prison.

In the future, it will be illegal to purchase private health insurance.

There are provisions in the bill to ration healthcare.

There is a provision that makes it illegal to limit attorney fees in malpractice litigation.

Bend over America. The government is going to stick a pool que up your ass sideways!

You know all of what you mentioned could have been prevented if Health Insurance companies weren't so corrupt that they rip off patients and doctors by denying claims and not reimbursing doctors just so they could make more of a profit by just pushing paper around. After all private insurance doesn't kill a cancer cell. You think this is a government take-over of healthcare but where were you when the government enacted medicare and medicaid? What about government subsidized healthcare for soldiers? The VA? Native Americans? All those programs are single-payer systems. I generally like to keep government out of most things because for the most part government is dumb and wasteful but the status quo just simply isn't fair and it is corrupt and I'm realistic. I know this because I have two parents that are doctors and for far too long I've seen my dad work for 80 hours a week and not get reimbursed properly. I would also like to see the provision that says it will eventually be illegal to buy private insurance. That doesn't seem realistic at all. The reason also why people are being required to have insurance is because those who do not have insurance still are covered and the cost then goes to the hospital,doctor or both which then goes to the next consumer that can pay for it.

[timmyc]

we have been taking it up the ass from the insurance companies for years. On the slimey side, health insurers are somewhere between lawyers and time share sales.

I am not not big on government, but the corporations, most notably banks and insurance companies have completely run amok and destroyed the country. The Regan/Bush era of greedenomics has come to and end.

[Dougie]

So someone gives me 2 negative (-) points for asking for proof for the statement for "lies", and don't even have the guts to say why? Cowards in the midst.

[AZDiapers]

A couple points I found interesting about the universal health care issue in the US.

-Congress blatantly lied to the American people, claiming that the American Medical Association was in support of the bill when it was never brought forward and voted upon by the committee that decides whether or not to support these things.

-Universal Health Care is so effective in other countries that thousands of people go from Canada, UK, etc. to have their surguries done in the US.

(I actually had a friend's best friend die of cancer and resulting infections in Canada because they decided that it was too expensive to operate, they diagnosed him a couple years ago but said it would cost too much and just told him he would have to live with it until it killed him.)

-The US government already has shown their inability to run things as efficiently as the private industry, IE, the US Post Office, the bankrupt Medicare, Medicaid and soon to be bankrupt Social Security. The US automotive industry is in no better shape than it was before GMC was nationalized, GMC actually just asked for another bailout earlier this week.

I worked in medical billing for two years, with my mother also working in medical billing and my father in the medical field for nearly 30 years, from what we have all observed, the problem with the medical system already is too much government involvement. The standards for Medicare, Medicaid (federal gov) reimbursing hospitals is at most 25% for equipment, and significantly less for the efforts of the actual people, Private insurance companies use Medicare and Medicaid as the industry standard and only reimburse that amount themselves. This results in hospitals providing a markup of over 4x for all their patients so they get reimbursed enough to stay in business, let alone make a profit as their stockholders demand. The same applies for perscriptions and nearly everything else medical related except over the counter stuff.

Solution: getting rid of medicare and medicaid or forcing them to actually pay what they are supposed to would result in medical bills dropping by 75% across the board as well as a significant drop in medical insurance.

Another problem is the government requirement for hospitals to not refuse service to anyone regardless of whether or not they can afford treatment. In a sense it is already universal health care, but thats aside the point. Obviously the hospitals eat the cost of people that don't pay and thus pass them on to those who do pay, further increasing the costs. Living near mexico I am sure the statistics are slightly difference than the rest of the country due to immigration (hospitals have to treat illegals and legals alike) but I would say at least 1/5 of patients at the hospital I work at do not pay for one reason or another and thus, everyone who does pay, their medical bills go up by at least 1/5 to cover those costs.

Solution: Obviously it is rather inhumane to suggest or support not treating those who can't afford it regardless of the cost, but I say that if the government wants, they can put up government (state or federal) run free medical clinics up that would allow whoever walked in to get treated, people can volunteer to staff the clinic and would be a great opportunity for people to find a way to have college paid for or do their residencies. But, still allow those with insurance or want to pay to continue to go to the existing hospitals and doctors if they choose.

* statistics are rough estimates and not designed to be stated as a hard fact or true for my entire state, let alone the nation, they are merely the numbers I found and recall at the hospital I work at.

[tenderheart]

Bottom line we already have socialized medicine it's called medicare and medicaid. This would extend benefits to everyone. This version of the bill would probably leave some uninsured actually.

Also, if you want to talk about socialism lets talk about firms that are too big to fail. All the billions/trillions pumped into banking and industry (aka GM) all that money is doing far more to pave a road for socialism than this bill ever would. Lets be honest not all socialist ideas are bad such as free education for all *gasp* I know it's socialist. Food stamps, socialist. I'll spare the list but we have had for quite some time several socialist elements in our government this bill isn't about that. It's about costing large insurance companies money and power. They don't want to give up either.

Also, just because a public option is available doesn't mean private health care will go away either. The government will not be controlling which doctor you see and when. Only if you cannot pay or are uninsured then the government coverage comes into play. But really with a HMO how much choice do you have now anyway. Pfft you'll be lucky if you aren't dropped when you get a truly serious condition. It's true the insurance companies are only in it for the money they don't care about the people one bit.

So perhaps the government can do some good for the people and increase our collective life expectancies wouldn't that be nice?

[Bettypooh]

I'm not talking about if it works or not. I'm referring to the parts you are declaring lies. Without evidence, YOU are the one telling lies.

It doesn't take evidence to tell the truth but it takes a decent person to debate a topic instead of calling someone a liar without refuting what they have said. Shame on you!

Bettypooh

[Bettypooh]

So someone gives me 2 negative (-) points for asking for proof for the statement for "lies", and don't even have the guts to say why? Cowards in the midst.

Read my reply and maybe you'll see why. And take note that you now have 3 negatives I'm proud of the one I gave you though I wish I hadn't felt compelled to do it- I really don't like starting my day that way Attitude means a lot in social interaction and I still haven't seen you prove what you said. Am I to take you at your own words and decide that since you didn't offer proof you are lying as well? You need to do more than a little self-reflecting Dougie

Bettypooh

[redneck diaper boy]

Have you read any part of this bill? If you say you have you lie because it was not released to the public!

The information I quoted was from listening the reading of portions thereof on the House floor. If you did not watch the debate, you have no idea what you are talking about.

America had the best healthcare system in the world. People don't leave America for healthcare. People come to America when all of their options have been expolited

I saw what I saw and heard what I heard.

My healthcare insurance cost about $16,000 per year. It is a big chunk of my income. Now I get to pay for someone elses.

Part of the money, for this insane bill, comes from screwing senior citizens. There is a 500 billion dollar cut to the Medicare program. My proplem is that I have paid fin to the Medicare program for all of my working life. Medicare is what covers retirees. I am in my 50s so I get screwed by the government again.

Lie

The cost will be borne by everybody, but will still be SIGNIFICANTLY less than profiteering HMO's. It's worth noting that I live in a country with Universal Healthcare and our average rate of taxes is lower than yours, so don't try and get the fear machine in action by saying it will cost everybody too much, etc etc.

No. You will be PROVIDED free healthcare.

Blatant lie. The system is similar to any other country with Universal Healthcare; and this system allows for private health-care to exist alongside and complimentary to universal.

Another lie. You're confusing a national triage-based-assessment system whereby people with non-life-threatening conditions will obviously not be placed in front of people with such conditions. This does not equal rationing; it equals "every life has the same value" and it doesn't matter how much money you have; if the man next to you is dying and you're not? He gets treatment first.

To be honest, I'm fairly certain that outside of Arty and maybe one or two others; pretty much everybody here is sick and tired of your repeated attempts to brainwash people with your silly, out of date, and downright dangerous, points of view.

[Andy]

Have you read any part of this bill? If you say you have you lie because it was not released to the public!

The information I quoted was from listening the reading of portions thereof on the House floor. If you did not watch the debate, you have no idea what you are talking about.

America had the best healthcare system in the world. People don't leave America for healthcare. People come to America when all of their options have been expolited

I saw what I saw and heard what I heard.

My healthcare insurance cost about $16,000 per year. It is a big chunk of my income. Now I get to pay for someone elses.

Part of the money, for this insane bill, comes from screwing senior citizens. There is a 500 billion dollar cut to the Medicare program. My proplem is that I have paid fin to the Medicare program for all of my working life. Medicare is what covers retirees. I am in my 50s so I get screwed by the government again.

People surely don't come to the US of A because of its superior healthcare system. If there is any reason to stay away (in terms of not living there) from the US of A then it is because of the currently still completely underdeveloped healthcare system. Just picking up points from the sources you like to read and listen to but denying existence of sources you don't like makes you pretty one sided as you don't allow one other thought. And thats how you sound. Pretty sad really

[boy ricky]

The United States Government is poised to take over the US healthcare system.

The US House of Representatives just passed a really bad healthcare bill. This bill fails to cover everyone.

The cost of this reform is trillions of dollars. The cost will be born by small and large business.

Upon enactment, everyone would be forced to purchase health insurance. If you fail to purchase health insurance, you could go to prison.

In the future, it will be illegal to purchase private health insurance.

There are provisions in the bill to ration healthcare.

There is a provision that makes it illegal to limit attorney fees in malpractice litigation.

Bend over America. The government is going to stick a pool que up your ass sideways!

This looks like talking points straight out of the teabaggers list of bully techniques. If you can't win on the facts, try to scare the daylights out of everyone or shout them down.

A recent poll in Canada found 90% of Canadians were happy with their healthcare and hey, 70% of us think Obama is on the right track.

Some things teabaggers won't share with you,

Almost all of the money being used to fight health care reform is coming from insurance and health companies.

Why would they spend so much? Does anyone believe these Health Insurance companies have the best wishes of Americans in mind when they millions of dollars on lobbyists and fund "grassroots" orgs?

Many health insurance companies make decisions on what your care will be or if you need it, many even decide who the doctor will be and who the specialists will be.

Health Insurance companies play god everyday. Everyday they deny medical care to people. They are in business to make money, not to pay it out if they can avoid doing so.

Our healthcare plan in Canada is as good as that in the USA. I pick my Doctor, she and I decide what care I need and my insurance pays for it. My insurance is government run. They never contact my doctor to say your treatment plan is not approved. In fact my treatment plan is never sent to the government for approval.

[Guest TBinthehoodie]

my stance on this is that i'm more worried about the fact that they just opened the flood gates for fraud more then any part of it. it's the fraud thats gonna make them regret and us suffer.

[rickibrat2]

basic the way i read of the bill if it is fully passed

1. it could cost me up to $6000.00 per year to have to buy it from the goverment or i can be put in jail

2. the kids that live with me with extrem medical needs will be facing even more cut backs in supplys and services soon

think it is really time to pass an informal bill of our own that basic says

elect none of the above

till we start getting people in there that care about the people and not the corperations

[loopy]

GOD DAMN COMMIES!

that's all i have to say on this.

[Guest NaughtyAshes]

Have you read any part of this bill? If you say you have you lie because it was not released to the public!

The information I quoted was from listening the reading of portions thereof on the House floor. If you did not watch the debate, you have no idea what you are talking about.

So anyone with google is lying because the bill has been posted on opencongress.org for over a week.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3962/text

[Vic]

The problem with our government is that it's a corporate government and has been forever. Now they're trying to turn the government into the number one employer in the country. You can bet your last dollar that somebody is going to be making a mint being the governments number one health care provider.

It takes an awful lot of money and influence just to get your foot in the door, let alone to get elected, so in the end you'll have to be backed by lobbyists and the rich and powerfull. It takes millions just to get elected into congress.

In short they are gonna do what they want to do, no matter what you say, or how you vote. The media is owned and run by the rich and powerfull, you see what they want you to see. The public has no say, and all of this is a power play by people you've never even heard of and never will see.

There is a big payoff for somebody in the end, and yes government run systems are corrupt and wasteful. Medicare and medicade get bilked out of billions every year, just like all the billions we sent over to Iraq to help rebuild that country, whiff, presto! All the money was gone, and nobody knows where it went, but I'd bet my soul that the rich got a big piece of that pie.

You can bet your ass people are making a fortune whichever way they choose to go, universal healthcare or not. Somebody stands to profit or it wouldn't have made it this far, and you can bet that the money is going to crooks, because the people who get elected are crooks themselves, and are merely serving somebodies big interest, not ours.

Socialist? Have you read the "patriot act"?? We will soon be in a totalitarian system and God help us then. More and more cameras are going up everyday, we are being monitored more and more everyday. You are on their grid every single day of your life, just at different percentages of the time.

In the end you won't be able to tell the difference between the corporation and the government, but don't worry, you'll still be able to vote. It'll be just the same kind of choice you get to make now, a choice between a joker or a clown. They all dangle at the end of someones string.

Peace,

Vic