What qualifies as Incontinent? Am I?

[prideful]

I have seen a lot of posts about how incontinence is a spectrum. I agree, plus it makes sense since there are labelled absorbant products for different leaks. As for me, I have been posting in the Incon Desires forum with my questions. I feel I need clarification. I do have OAB, but before slowly transferring to 24/7, I always had a pain in my bladder that would physically hurt. So I started wearing diapers more and more so I could just relieve the pressure, which I could hold for a couple hours despite the pain.

I was curious If you could originally hold it with just the rare drips. Would that classify me as incontinent since it hurts to hold?

[rusty pins]

My definition of incontinence is someone who can't hold their bladder, bowels or both and will automatically pee or poop when they have to with little or no warning and no ability to control or stop it from happening.

There are other issues people have such as leaking when they laugh, sneeze or do strenuous things.  That's usually the people who wear a disposable underpant as opposed to a thick tape on diaper.  One is meant to catch and absorb small occasional leaks, the diaper is designed to handle a full emptying of the bladder or bowels when they release with little or no warning.

Sure, there are also people who constantly dribble.  I would call that incontinence because they can't stop or control it.  They may not suddenly release a bladder full into their diaper, but over a few hours their diaper will be just as wet from the constant uncontrollable dribbling.

If you can hold it, even with discomfort and then release it when you choose to, I don't call that incontinence.

[feralfreak]

if you have to ask, you have answered your question.

[stevewet]

If you leak any amount of urine beyond your control you are incontinent. I remember it coming as a bit of a shock when the diabetic nurse classed me as incontinent. 

[babykeiff]

On 8/3/2023 at 8:27 PM, prideful said:

I have seen a lot of posts about how incontinence is a spectrum. I agree, plus it makes sense since there are labelled absorbant products for different leaks. As for me, I have been posting in the Incon Desires forum with my questions. I feel I need clarification. I do have OAB, but before slowly transferring to 24/7, I always had a pain in my bladder that would physically hurt. So I started wearing diapers more and more so I could just relieve the pressure, which I could hold for a couple hours despite the pain.

I was curious If you could originally hold it with just the rare drips. Would that classify me as incontinent since it hurts to hold?

The dictionary definition of incontinence as the inability to control bladder and/or bowel function. From a scientific / biological process, it also concurs but leaves huge gaps in the functions. For example, a baby is not toilet trained but diaper trained. Despite that, those who do not know the meaning of the word refer to a baby as incontinent, which is a simple misuse of the term. Insurance companys commonly morph the meaning of words to suit themselves as a way to trick / mislead mtheir clients to believing that they are insured when they are not, and client only find out after they attempt to claim.

Incontinence, being the inabiltiy of control of bladder and/or bowel functions is a symptom of either muscle and/or nerve and/or mental issues. i.e., if a persson is involved in an accident that cuts their spinal cord, incontinence is usually a symptom.

A faux scientist tried to claim that a frog uses it legs to hear by training a group of frogs to jump when he shouts at them, proving that this occurs, and then after cutting the legs off a frog and shouting at the frog to jump, and since the frog won't jump without legs, the faux scientist stated that the frog goes deaf without legs.

This frog story is common in the medical insurance industry... missinformation and deception.

To answer the question that you are asking instead of what you stated - there are many layers of diaper dependance.

• A baby is diaper dependent due to

1. not knowing cause and effect.
2. not knowing what a toilet is, or what it is for
3. maybe not having the muscle control to get to a toilet etc.

• bladder loss can be

1. constant dribbling
2. voiding on change of movement - ie standing / sitting (due to increased bladder pressure)
3. surge voiding due to spasm of bladder
4. - any combination of the above.

• bowel loss can be

1. constant weeping
2. voiding on change of movement - ie standing / sitting (due to increased bladder pressure)
3. explosive voiding due to spasm / reaction
4. - any combination of the above.

The reasons of each can be varied - i.e.

• damage / interference in sensory nerve system resulting in autonomic voiding when bladder and/or bowels fill.
• damage / interference in motor nerve systems resulting in bladder / bowel sphincters remaing open where one voids by gravity / movement which increase pressure in bladder / bowels.
• damage in bladder (muscular bag) / bowels (muscles) resulting in non expanding of bladder and/or bowels which means extreme urgency where client can never reach a toilet before voiding.

This type of damage / interference listed above is classed as incontinence.

• damage in mental ability to be able to understand ones need to void. As a result, the instructions to void are sent to bladder / bowels but the person is unaware that they are voiding.

This type of behaviour can be trained (via hypnosis / training )* or due to damage to brain material (commonly from a mental disease etc such as dementia). Some medical insurance companies class this as incontinence, but since no bladder / bowel muscle or nerve damage / interfence exists, this can't be called as incontinence, but diaper dependance. 

*This type of training is normally refered to as 'pavlov dog theory'. Most people are trained to behave a certain way - i.e.

• a school bell ringing for a break / lunch and humans salivate / get hungry on the sound of a bell
• a baby wearing cloth / disposable diapers while reeking of baby powder will continue to sleep while they wet / mess their diaper. Thus an adult who recreates the same environment will also wet/mess while asleep, or shortly start to wet/mess as soon as they become comfortable and totally familiar with the environment.
• an adult, due to getting up for school in the morning, and coming home in the evening learns, by habit, do this for the rest of their life - and sets their body clock accordingly. This is the main cause of jetlag - the difference in time zones of another country as compared to ones home country which means there is inconsistancy in ones body clock. People who work shift work / non 8-5 etc suffer from a form of jetlag which slowly drops their ability to think / concentrate / process tasks that need adaption / modification of previously learnt processes. Eventually, these people's I.Q. level and mental ability deterioates. Pilots, who are highly trained individuals and work crossing time zones eventually lose the ability to learn new tasks / adapt to new training procedures in order to shift to newer aircraft models / technology. It is a common cause of aircraft accidents classed as pilot error where the pilot follows an old procedure expecting the newer aircraft to behave accordingly, but due to some insignificant little change in the aircraft design, the old way of doing the task no longer works.

We all think that we are individuals, but we tend to mimic what we see. Therefore, all we are is copies of those around us, that is unless we engage our brain - and realise that its purpose is not to keep our ears apart. What we need to do is question everything... all the time. That is what we did as a baby / toddler... and a behaviour that was trained out of us by teachers too lazy to answer our questions. - In kindergarden / nursery school, the child is taught to put a finger in front of its mouth as a way to keep it quiet.

 

 

[deewet]

Steve Wet has it in a nutshell

I would only add the obvious, as an adult "If you leak any amount of urine beyond your control you are incontinent."  That was from a professional and is a short and to the point qualification!

[dlmolicares]

On 8/4/2023 at 7:37 AM, stevewet said:

If you leak any amount of urine beyond your control you are incontinent. I remember it coming as a bit of a shock when the diabetic nurse classed me as incontinent. 

Curious about what your symptoms were that caused that classification- to the extent you're OK sharing such.

Personally, I started having some post-urination leakage about 5 years ago. Started less than a teaspoon but I wore a pad because it became annoying (esp. at work) and occasionally would show a tad if I didn't.  I started wearing a diaper as I am a DL but also for convenience. It seems to happen more now than a few years ago- at the end of the day the diaper always shows clear wetness and I also have times where it ends up on the floor or where ever after I "go" if I'm not careful.

On the night front, I spent a long time training to wet at night and it seems to work (2 or so nights a week, I can minimize the chances if I work hard to not have a lot of fluids and go right before bed but even that's not flawless)

 

[prideful]

4 hours ago, dlmolicares said:

Curious about what your symptoms were that caused that classification- to the extent you're OK sharing such.

Personally, I started having some post-urination leakage about 5 years ago. Started less than a teaspoon but I wore a pad because it became annoying (esp. at work) and occasionally would show a tad if I didn't.  I started wearing a diaper as I am a DL but also for convenience. It seems to happen more now than a few years ago- at the end of the day the diaper always shows clear wetness and I also have times where it ends up on the floor or where ever after I "go" if I'm not careful.

On the night front, I spent a long time training to wet at night and it seems to work (2 or so nights a week, I can minimize the chances if I work hard to not have a lot of fluids and go right before bed but even that's not flawless)

 

My family is prone to OAB. I would ALWAYS have the need to go. I did dribble a few drops after going potty. But the worst of it was having to hold it for mire than an hour at a time. It would hurt SO bad. Like try lifting a weight and holding it up in the air ALL DAY. That is the kind of pain it felt like. I eventually just gave in to wearing 247 gradually and I don't even have to think about it anymore. It is freeing. 

[ppdude]

the official definition for bladder IC from urology:

Any involuntary loss of urine of any amount.

Any questions?

 

[rusty pins]

OAB is not incontinence.  You're bladder is over active and you pee a lot, more frequently than most people.  I often have OAB and need to pee sometimes every 20 to 30 minutes in the morning.  It's not just a small amount but a normal amount.  It's "over active" because at some times of the day my body and kidneys process a lot of urine that needs to be emptied from my bladder.  If a guy sits at the bar guzzling beer after beer, he will need to pee every hour or even sooner but that doesn't mean he has OAB or incontinence.  It means he has drank a lot and his body needs to process it and eliminate it as soon as it can.  Normally I pee about every 1-1/2 to 2 hours, but I don't have any problem controlling in, hence, I'm not incontinent.

[babykeiff]

On 8/13/2023 at 2:23 AM, ppdude said:

the official definition for bladder IC from urology:

Any involuntary loss of urine of any amount.

Any questions?

 

Therefore, by your stated definition, everyone in the world is bladder incontinent - as at one time in their lives they held it a little to long and weeped urine uncontrollably into their clothes etc. This can be extended to males that dribble post voiding. That is also uncontrolled!

As a result, insurance companies should be the only ones that pay for diapers. Therefore, you and I and everyone in the world does not buy diapers, our insurance company do.

[prideful]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:43 AM, dlmolicares said:

Curious about what your symptoms were that caused that classification- to the extent you're OK sharing such.

Personally, I started having some post-urination leakage about 5 years ago. Started less than a teaspoon but I wore a pad because it became annoying (esp. at work) and occasionally would show a tad if I didn't.  I started wearing a diaper as I am a DL but also for convenience. It seems to happen more now than a few years ago- at the end of the day the diaper always shows clear wetness and I also have times where it ends up on the floor or where ever after I "go" if I'm not careful.

On the night front, I spent a long time training to wet at night and it seems to work (2 or so nights a week, I can minimize the chances if I work hard to not have a lot of fluids and go right before bed but even that's not flawless)

 

My symtoms were minor leaks and drips, easy to manage ended up just wearing a poise pad most the time. I could never hold it more than 2 hours, only time i have is overnight, occasional bedweeting ( 2 or 3 times a year). The pain was bad though, doctor said it sounded like oab since i had to go all the time. 

I read through most the comments, I was deffinitely incon.. Just mild leakage, Poise amount, and now i don't even notice anymore. 

[babykeiff]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:09 AM, prideful said:

My symtoms were minor leaks and drips, easy to manage ended up just wearing a poise pad most the time. I could never hold it more than 2 hours, only time i have is overnight, occasional bedweeting ( 2 or 3 times a year). The pain was bad though, doctor said it sounded like oab since i had to go all the time. 

I read through most the comments, I was deffinitely incon.. Just mild leakage, Poise amount, and now i don't even notice anymore. 

@prideful,

it is more correct to state that you are dependent on protection. The actual reason for your dependency might be deduced by a urologist, but without that being critical (it usually is), the deduction is usually never done.

I'd advise you, if only for peace of mind, that you get a specialist to discover what caused this dependance as bladder/bowel loss is normally a symptom of something else. It seems to me that your doctor, presuming it to be oab, is dismissing it and only addressing the symptom in passing and ignoring any root problem that you might have. That would annoy me, and drive me to drop said doctor in favour of a medical specialist that will do the work - but that is just my opinion.

To All:

The medical industry is never interested in solving a problem, and focus its attention in treating the symptoms rather than addressing core issues. Many here have first hand experience of that, and it is something that frustrates and annoys me about the industry as a whole - the arrogance of a group of people who go out of their way to avoid following their own oath - "ὠφελέειν ή μὴ βλάπτειν" or translated to english - "Do no harm". They are all aware that treating a symptom while avoiding the root problem is doing harm to the paitent as every disease / issue will progress and get worse if it is not addressed. So, by only treating symptoms of a problem, they ARE doing harm to their paitent, and a paitent is supposed to trust a Doctor. After all, the description of a Doctor is "a learned and trusted friend".

Would you trust this learned and trusted friend who goes out of their way to harm you with the guise of attempting to cure you?

I am not suggesting that you avoid these, as at the moment, there is nothing better. All I do advise is that you don't implicity trust them.

 

[longislandguy]

I dribble each and every time I urinate. Sometimes worse than others. If I dab with paper and do rigorous shaking, I stay dry. If I don’t, there will be a wet patch somewhere. But just a drop or two gets through. I don’t consider myself incontinent. 

[babykeiff]

1 minute ago, longislandguy said:

I dribble each and every time I urinate. Sometimes worse than others. If I dab with paper and do rigorous shaking, I stay dry. If I don’t, there will be a wet patch somewhere. But just a drop or two gets through. I don’t consider myself incontinent. 

The teaching is more than one shake and one is playing with oneself.

In relation to post voidual dribbling, that shouldn't really happen, but for some, depending on age and restrictions (of clothes etc) it is possible and totally normal depending on volume dribbled.

Volume dribbled is subjective to length of member, whether it is aroused / partially aroused or not, and a lot more beside, but without you posting a picture of the offending article, plus a ruler (the correct way around 🤪  also in the shot) plus all your medical history etc., an issue can't really be identified or diagnosed online. As a result, it is something to be discussed with your own doctor / urologist at the next appointment - and let him/her handle your member with the magnify lens / microscope /  or whatever equiptment she/he determines is appropiate.

Real medical diagnosis is not the perview of internet forums. Go see your doctor.

[feralfreak]

2 hours ago, babykeiff said:

 and let him/her handle your member with the magnify lens / microscope /  or whatever equiptment she/he determines is appropiate.

Real medical diagnosis is not the perview of internet forums. Go see your doctor.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[longislandguy]

Wasn’t looking for a diagnosis. Just my two cents🤣

[feralfreak]

16 hours ago, babykeiff said:

@prideful,

it is more correct to state that you are dependent on protection. The actual reason for your dependency might be deduced by a urologist, but without that being critical (it usually is), the deduction is usually never done.

I'd advise you, if only for peace of mind, that you get a specialist to discover what caused this dependance as bladder/bowel loss is normally a symptom of something else. It seems to me that your doctor, presuming it to be oab, is dismissing it and only addressing the symptom in passing and ignoring any root problem that you might have. That would annoy me, and drive me to drop said doctor in favour of a medical specialist that will do the work - but that is just my opinion.

To All:

The medical industry is never interested in solving a problem, and focus its attention in treating the symptoms rather than addressing core issues. Many here have first hand experience of that, and it is something that frustrates and annoys me about the industry as a whole - the arrogance of a group of people who go out of their way to avoid following their own oath - "ὠφελέειν ή μὴ βλάπτειν" or translated to english - "Do no harm". They are all aware that treating a symptom while avoiding the root problem is doing harm to the paitent as every disease / issue will progress and get worse if it is not addressed. So, by only treating symptoms of a problem, they ARE doing harm to their paitent, and a paitent is supposed to trust a Doctor. After all, the description of a Doctor is "a learned and trusted friend".

Would you trust this learned and trusted friend who goes out of their way to harm you with the guise of attempting to cure you?

I am not suggesting that you avoid these, as at the moment, there is nothing better. All I do advise is that you don't implicity trust them.

 

i dont think its the doctors, my mom worked with doctors in hospitals, as well as being a patient to them, they wanted to do more than treat her, the problem is, they can only work with what they have, its the pharmacutical industry that is at fault, they give out treatments when there are cures they can put out but wont, for example there is a gene mutation pfizer owns the rights to, its APOA-1 MILANO, they could make a remedy with that for arterial plaque but they wont.

[prideful]

In my area a good doctor is hard to find. I know what the problem is. I have nerve damage from a car accident, I don't care to get a diagnosis for what I already know. I'm content with diapers now. 

[JDCH]

I have seen within the medical community that even heavy gas is sometimes classified as fecal incontinence. Maybe due to the risk of a shart? To me it seemed like a stretch by it isn't really an issue for me.

[feralfreak]

13 hours ago, JDCH said:

I have seen within the medical community that even heavy gas is sometimes classified as fecal incontinence. Maybe due to the risk of a shart? To me it seemed like a stretch by it isn't really an issue for me.

when you say heavy gas, do you mean just farting a lot, or your farts are lumpy? if they are lumpy you shit your pants/

[rusty pins]

Teacher:  I want someone to use the word Definitely in a sentence.

Susie:  The grass is definitely green.

Teacher:  Well, the grass can be brown or yellow.  Definitely has a stronger meaning.  Anyone else?

Billy:  The sky is definitely blue

Teacher:  The sky can be white, grey or sometimes even pink.  Anyone else?

Johnny:  Teacher, does a fart have lumps?

Teacher:  Johnny!  No!  Of course not!

Johnny:  Then I definitely have shit in my pants!

[ppdude]

On 8/12/2023 at 8:04 AM, deewet said:

Steve Wet has it in a nutshell

I would only add the obvious, as an adult "If you leak any amount of urine beyond your control you are incontinent."  That was from a professional and is a short and to the point qualification!

Exactly right! ANY involuntary loss of ANY amount defines IC/.

I've said it hundreds of times: You DON'T need to qualify for IC as it cannot be measured. If you want to be IC, then you are. No pre or post qualifications needed or necessary. Your statement makes it so. Own it and stop obsessing over it.

 

[JDCH]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:01 AM, feralfreak said:

when you say heavy gas, do you mean just farting a lot, or your farts are lumpy? if they are lumpy you shit your pants/

If it's lumpy, I think that would meet the threshold.