How realistic is full bowel incontinence?

[Diapersarecool1]

I am certain it can be achieved through unpotty training. That is not my question though. In my 25 years alive, I have never met or heard of anyone with full, unmanaged bowel incontinence. However, I have heard of daily bowel irrigation, medications, corrective surgeries and colostomy bags. As I edge closer towards bowel incontinence, I wonder if anyone who finds out is A.) internally rolling their eyes, as there is bowel incontinence treatments or B.) going to ask 20 questions on why I can't do a daily enema or a surgery or get a bag. Thoughts?

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I do not know, and do not want to find out. However, some people tell me it's lot of shit

[Little Sherri]

Full bowel incontinence without extensive dietary modification or taking softeners or laxatives seems like a difficult objective, if you haven't suffered some form of neurological or structural damage or modification. I read an academic article a few years ago that I'll paraphrase here; it focused on seniors in long-term care settings who had been stupefied by inappropriate usage of pharmaceuticals such as antipsychotics and/or sedatives employed to control behaviour. Many of them had been rendered completely immobile, and functionally incontinent as a result. When their medication was adjusted, some of them made near-miraculous returns from what looked like end-stage dementia, and were able to regain mobility and a fair degree of independence, relative to the total 24-hour care they needed previously. The author noted as well that a number of them no longer relied entirely on incontinence products, once they were able to get to toilets on their own or with assistance. These were people who had, in some cases, spent the previous couple of years confined to a bed, living entirely in diapers. My thought is, if frail people at a stage in life not associated with improving functionality, are able to climb back up that hill, then an otherwise healthy, younger person who has spent a period of time trying not to hold it, is unlikely to achieve an irreversible loss of control in either department.  

That said, presumably, most of the elderly people reviewed in the study probably didn't want to be in diapers, and, we know the mind is a powerful force within the body, so, I'm not saying that nobody ever achieved some degree of bowel or urinary unreliability by following the various untraining regimens that are out there. I'm just saying that nobody should beat themselves up if it doesn't seem to be working out that way - these "skills" are are hardwired in and difficult to extinguish. 

I haven't given my bowel control any vacations, but I've been living and peeing in diapers for almost 4 years, and while my comfortable range has declined notably, I can still hold it if I have to, for a stretch. I have, however, become an inconsistent bedwetter, so I can legitimately say at this point that I need to wear diapers to bed. THAT seems to be "achievable", if you can call it an "achievement". 

[fillemup]

It’s a very embarrassing disability to deal with . I get only about 3 seconds notice that I am going to poop myself. At home, I don’t care. When away from home, it is very embarrassing to poop your diaper in public.

[Goerge]

I fantasise about having passive bowel incontinence where I'm unaware I have messed or feel it slip out but with no control. I know it would ruin my life. I hear people have bowel movements after they have eaten so I could be in a busy restaurant visiting the bar getting another drink and I would uncontrollable fill my nappy while standing there. (I attend a day centre with people who actually mess themselves and wear nappies and a filled nappy is instantly noticeable) I would have to walk back to my table past other eaters and retrieve my nappy bag walking back to the toilets to clean up. That would be super embarrassing. I would turn into hermit.

I fantasise about destroying my anal sphincter from larger and larger buttplugs over many months but truth is its nice as a fantasy but really bowel incontinence would suck, I think no matter how well you cleaned after a bowel movement without a shower people would recognise a slight smell. Also you can't hide bowel incontinence from friends and family like bladder incontinence. You can mess yourself anywhere. Not for me thank you, although when I was younger I would off done anything to be double incontinent, I've grown up now.

 

[Kif]

5 hours ago, Diapersarecool1 said:

I am certain it can be achieved through unpotty training. That is not my question though. In my 25 years alive, I have never met or heard of anyone with full, unmanaged bowel incontinence. However, I have heard of daily bowel irrigation, medications, corrective surgeries and colostomy bags. As I edge closer towards bowel incontinence, I wonder if anyone who finds out is A.) internally rolling their eyes, as there is bowel incontinence treatments or B.) going to ask 20 questions on why I can't do a daily enema or a surgery or get a bag. Thoughts?

I mean...I've come right to the edge of that cliff myself! (granted, I also had surgeries affecting my pelvic floor) ?

I was at the point where I could *not* stop movements from happening after a few minutes...full-body effort, squeaking in surprise at sudden failure. I was able to retrain to up to 7 minutes or so after nearly a month? But have since let it go again...not sure where I stand but wouldn't be surprised to find myself back to square one. And I know other folks here have had similar experiences, including unpermitted accidents (I've not had any yet, but that's mostly because *so far* most of mine happen in the morning before work)

And ftr, it did sneak up on me...so if you're at all uncertain, test yourself to track / time how long you can hold it. Would be wise.

[oznl]

The social cost of wearing a dirty diaper (as opposed to merely a wet one which is, within normal operating parameters, undetectable) can be very high.

There is also a vastly enhanced risk of skin compromise.

There is considerable anecdotal evidence that many people DO become accustomed to dealing with urinary incontinence in diapers and end up comfortable enough with the idea but I don’t see the same with faecal incontinence.

Although I lack direct lived experience, what I’ve heard is that some kind of bowel management program is par for the course in these scenarios.

Similar to @Little Sherri, I’m 4 years in to 24/7 diapering (wet only).  Whilst still somewhat continent during the day, I am a semi-regular bedwetter and my daytime continence is degraded.  I can still come out of nappies for short periods during the day if I need to.

Although I have specifically sought to maintain faecal continence, it has degraded slightly anyway (it seems that de-conditioning your pelvic floor has unexpected consequences).  For the most part I have good control but if something is tilted away from my favour (looking at YOU slightly dodgy chicken roll) and I’m not close to a bathroom, it is entirely possible these days that I will end up in a full diaper that I couldn’t help.  This is similar to others of my cohort.

So it seems that loss of control there might be possible and yes, I'd expect questions about your therapy choice.

[Diapersarecool1]

I was in a rush when I wrote my question and it wasn't worded great. I guess what I am asking is...Are there realistically people who have full untreated bowel incontinence? I mean like completely separate from unpotty training, as in normal medical bowel incontinence. Everything that I read online says that bowel incontinence is manageable, whether that is through daily irrigation, enema, medication, surgery. If it is treatable, it leads me to believe that there are not too many people on this earth who uncontrollably poop themselves for years on end. Why do I ask this? Because as I edge towards bowel incontinence, I am worried. You know, if it is treatable based on Google's answer, than what will people think if they somehow figure out that 1 hour after every meal, I fill my pants. If they have a medical knowledge, will they ask me what kind of treatment I am undergoing? Even if they don't physically ask me, will they wonder why I don't just get a colonostmy bag or do a daily enema?  If they don't have a medical knowledge, will they Google it and read the word treatable? How do I even respond if confronted?

[Kif]

1 hour ago, Diapersarecool1 said:

I was in a rush when I wrote my question and it wasn't worded great. I guess what I am asking is...Are there realistically people who have full untreated bowel incontinence? I mean like completely separate from unpotty training, as in normal medical bowel incontinence. Everything that I read online says that bowel incontinence is manageable, whether that is through daily irrigation, enema, medication, surgery. If it is treatable, it leads me to believe that there are not too many people on this earth who uncontrollably poop themselves for years on end. Why do I ask this? Because as I edge towards bowel incontinence, I am worried. You know, if it is treatable based on Google's answer, than what will people think if they somehow figure out that 1 hour after every meal, I fill my pants. If they have a medical knowledge, will they ask me what kind of treatment I am undergoing? Even if they don't physically ask me, will they wonder why I don't just get a colonostmy bag or do a daily enema?  If they don't have a medical knowledge, will they Google it and read the word treatable? How do I even respond if confronted?

Just because a specific treatment option exists doesn't mean you *have* to go for it. The answer is generally "because that's what I prefer" or "none of your business". 

For example, a colostomy bag. Personally, I find the idea of having an open hole on the side of my body absolutely viscerally terrifying and in all general circumstances would refuse that treatment option. 

Same goes for surgery. Or meds (side effects). Etc. It's your body, you can't be forced to do one treatment/management strategy vs another (or any at all). Nor, for most circumstances, absolutely have to explain yourself or your choices.

I personally might consider an enema for rare circumstances, but again I'd rather not as it's quite physically uncomfortable for me and makes my voiding schedule less predictable after it wears off (as otherwise, like you said, 99% of the time it's after a meal...which allows you to plan quite a bit...otherwise when I've had them I couldn't tell when I'd need to void again).

Either way...seems like you're overthinking it and/or are surrounded by toxic nosey people. If that's the case, I'm sorry you have to deal with that; it really shouldn't be this big of a deal, and you shouldn't need to worry so much about what people think of you.

Folks deserve better, they deserve privacy and dignity.

[cathdiap]

Bowel incontinence does exist. Paraplegics, people with MS, people with a ruptured outer sphincter are all at risk of full bowel incontinence.

However, coming out of a series of messy accidents during long walks I found out that it is very damaging for the skin, a disaster to clean up (especially when out in public) and also very hard to hide from people around you. So I am glad I have now gained enough strength in my sphincter to avoid these messings. No matter how much I like urinary incontinence using my stent, I would do anything to not poop in my diaper. Even if it had to be a colostomy bag. i just don't want people around me to smell my poop.

I am pretty sure most bowel incontinent people think the same way about it and that's why you will almost never meet someone with a messy diaper out in public.

But hey if you prefer to only use diapers, that's okay. Your body, your choice. Just don't be surprised that unsuspecting people around you don't like it at all and will literally walk away from you. Not even asking one single question. It is not a matter of decency or respect, it is instinct. Almost nobody wants to smell someone else's poop.

Now that I think about it, it might be biggest taboo in the medical sphere.

[Hannah YMS]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:07 PM, Diapersarecool1 said:

You know, if it is treatable based on Google's answer, than what will people think if they somehow figure out that 1 hour after every meal, I fill my pants. If they have a medical knowledge, will they ask me what kind of treatment I am undergoing? Even if they don't physically ask me, will they wonder why I don't just get a colostomy bag or do a daily enema?  If they don't have a medical knowledge, will they Google it and read the word treatable? How do I even respond if confronted?

I think it's best if you don't worry about what people think about you. If anyone brings it up, you may simply decline to answer as that is too personal of a question. You don't have to answer to anyone for the way you (or anyone else) manage your bowel incontinence. If we all truly cared what people think, this sub-forum wouldn't even exist. You're 25 so you don't have much life experience in this, but as you get older you really do find out that 1) it's no one's business, and 2) it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

21 hours ago, cathdiap said:

Even if it had to be a colostomy bag. i just don't want people around me to smell my poop.

I know of someone with a colostomy bag after a battle with cancer. You can't get away from smelling like poop even with a bag. In fact, you're less likely to be noticed if you poop your diaper instead.

[cathdiap]

3 hours ago, jonbearab said:

I know of someone with a colostomy bag after a battle with cancer. You can't get away from smelling like poop even with a bag. In fact, you're less likely to be noticed if you poop your diaper instead.

I have had several family members and even colleagues with these stomas as well and I have never smelled them, not even when I was very close to them. How can a diaper be a more closed system than an ostomy bag? Like I said, i have had plenty of messy diapers over the last few months and as soon as I stepped into a closed room I would smell myself. 

[Hannah YMS]

5 hours ago, cathdiap said:

I have had several family members and even colleagues with these stomas as well and I have never smelled them, not even when I was very close to them. How can a diaper be a more closed system than an ostomy bag? Like I said, i have had plenty of messy diapers over the last few months and as soon as I stepped into a closed room I would smell myself. 

Then maybe it was poor hygiene? I dunno, lol.

[Wheels]

On 2/4/2023 at 3:42 AM, jonbearab said:

I think it's best if you don't worry about what people think about you. If anyone brings it up, you may simply decline to answer as that is too personal of a question. You don't have to answer to anyone for the way you (or anyone else) manage your bowel incontinence. If we all truly cared what people think, this sub-forum wouldn't even exist. You're 25 so you don't have much life experience in this, but as you get older you really do find out that 1) it's no one's business, and 2) it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

I know of someone with a colostomy bag after a battle with cancer. You can't get away from smelling like poop even with a bag. In fact, you're less likely to be noticed if you poop your diaper instead.

The person you know may just need a better colostomy bag and system. 

[Hannah YMS]

6 hours ago, Wheels said:

The person you know may just need a better colostomy bag and system. 

Yes, perhaps.

[~Brian~]

On 2/3/2023 at 1:32 AM, Kif said:

just because a specific treatment option exists doesn't mean you *have* to go for it. The answer is generally "because that's what I prefer" or "none of your business". 

@Diapersarecool1

I agree with @Kif - Just because there is a specific treatment option for a problem, that does not necessarily mean that it is something that is fixable. I'll give you an example: i've been having left shoulder pain for years, and I keep on thinking to myself that they're going to have to go in there and they're going to have to do some sort of surgery. I talked to a doctor who was an orthopedic specialist, and he told me that shoulder pain is hard know sometimes, because there are many things that can cause the pain.

He told me that it has to be the shooting match: when when you have pain, you end up going in and you try to find out where the pain is coming from, then you try to fix it, and then you go through the recovery, and you see what's going on. if that doesn't work, you go back in and you do it again this time trying to find the source of another place where the pain is coming from, and you try again, you keep doing that until you find out where the pain is and you fix it.

That would be different for example, Then when I had my appendix rupture. They did some palpitations to find out what hurts and where it hurt, and they found out that it was my appendix, they took it out, and I had to deal with peritonitis for over a month along with having all of this poison in me. In this case, the doctor was able to quickly diagnose what the problem was, and call in a surgeon for removal of the offending appendix, but sometimes it is not as easy as it seems, as the first example illustrates. A Doctor is not going to go in there and start fooling around inside unless there is something he thinks there might be a cause of pain or discomfort. sometimes you have to do what's called exploratory surgery to find out what's going on, that's one way of doing it, but when you're trying to figure out why something is causing problem or how to treat something, the treatment might be there, and it might sound like it's a good idea to you, but then when you go to the doctor for a consultation, you may find out that there's all types of different negatives of a surgery. when you go in for surgery, they always tell you your odds: I don't usually play the odds, but I've been pretty darn lucky in my life that I've been able to do what I've been able to do and bounce back quickly, as they age that might not be possible as last.

@Kif Is correct: just because there's a treatment out there, it does not mean that it is meant for you or for somebody else.  you also have to do a risk benefit analysis to be able to determine whether it makes sense. As I said before I don't play the odds, but in most of the time when I undergo a surgical procedure I know exactly what I'm getting into before he even puts me to sleep.

When I went into the doctors in 2019, I knew exactly what the heck I was dealing with. I told him that I was dealing with incontinence for part of 2018 as well as most of 2019, And it was getting out of hand period Of course there's all these things that you can do like take pills or do kegal exercises or whatever they call them, it's supposed to help you with your incontinence. In my mind, all of these options don't make any sense for me, because for years I've been having trouble with this, and I'm not going to go through an expensive battery of tests, by a whole bunch of specialists, because I have a condition named cerebral palsy, and who better then my doctor, and myself to, to determine the best course of treatment options available?

My treatment option, which really isn't a treatment, is to wear diapers 24/7 365. in many ways, this has saved my bacon, because many times I have been so stressed that I could not deal with stupid things that shouldn't cause me stress. worrying about my mother, worrying about things that happened or haven't happened yet, or just silly things that make no sense. it's like dreams I have, some dreams are plausible Some of them are fun dreams that you can remember and you will relive over and over again, while others don't make sense. it's like you start out walking down a interstate, and you run into a magic dragon, and then you get run over by a plane, or some other crazy thing that makes no sense! Stress is something that I do not like, because I understand that stress can also be happy stress, but stress can be something that you can be influenced by and it can also cause you problems with your health and your well being. stress in my mind should be eliminated as much as possible, because why worry about things that I can't control, why worry about things that make no sense, and why worry about something that you know is not going to change, but it's always there! I might not be able to change some things that I deal with in my life, and I'm not going to be able to eliminate all the stress, but in my mind diapers have helped me deal with this situation, and As I said, that's what I decided to do! it makes perfect sense for me, since I do have a mobility disability, I haven't been able to sleep very well Sometimes, and half the reason is because I'm always in the bath in the bathroom instead of trying to sleep.

My option was to go to diapers: It makes sense to me. If not, you have to do laundry every other day or so, because you've wet your pants, which causes a lot of laundry! I can quickly go into the bathroom for example, and change a diaper in less than 10 minutes if it's not so something that's messy. I can then throw on another diaper in less than 5 minutes, and I'm all set. The only thing I'm doing is throwing a diaper into a disposal can, and then once a week I take it out to the main garbage chute.

I always say that wearing a diaper is not as bad as it seems! being incontinent means that you have no control over either your your bladder or your bowels, or when or where you will release, and that's part of life. Once you get to the point that you say you need diapers, and you can decide in your head that it's a good idea, and you have a legitimate reason for wearing them, you should then you should have no problem in being able to accept them eventually. acceptance is not something that comes up right right away, but you have time to be able to learn that, And there's a lot of people and information and information I have looked at in order to make a decision. when you have good friends on DD like this, and you have good information from the medical professions And you also have a good heart that's true and pure, you know that what you choose is the right choice for yourself. not everyone chooses the same choice, and others may decide that they are going to do all of their treatment options for dealing with incontinence.

I choose to use diapers to deal with my situation. Stress, the feelings, And the reasoning behind it make perfect sense to me. as I say I always remember that stress is something that can be managed, if you figure out the right way to do it. i've always been taught not to worry about things, but what can you do when you constantly seem to think something is going to go wrong Come and you think what the heck's going to happen now? nobody can tell you what's going to happen in the next 10 seconds, nobody can tell you what's going to happen tomorrow, but all I know is the choice me wearing diapers is the right choice for me, and it might be the one for you, depending on your situation!

thank you for this awesome topic! bowel incontinence is real, And it's very realistic to be able to deal with it by using diapers should you choose. there are many people that make that choice, because, because they really don't have any other choice. Because of that, we have better as far as diapers and incontinence products then we did say in 1960, but there's still work to do as far as what kind of products are available, and what type of quality you're going to deal with! they seem to think that a diaper is something that's cheap, that can't hold anything, and is made so badly that you have to use stable duct tape to be able to hold it on, because it's so thin and it doesn't have any redeem in quality!

Brian

[Nat]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:32 PM, Kif said:

Just because a specific treatment option exists doesn't mean you *have* to go for it. The answer is generally "because that's what I prefer" or "none of your business". 

For example, a colostomy bag. Personally, I find the idea of having an open hole on the side of my body absolutely viscerally terrifying and in all general circumstances would refuse that treatment option. 

Same goes for surgery. Or meds (side effects). Etc. It's your body, you can't be forced to do one treatment/management strategy vs another (or any at all). Nor, for most circumstances, absolutely have to explain yourself or your choices.

I personally might consider an enema for rare circumstances, but again I'd rather not as it's quite physically uncomfortable for me and makes my voiding schedule less predictable after it wears off (as otherwise, like you said, 99% of the time it's after a meal...which allows you to plan quite a bit...otherwise when I've had them I couldn't tell when I'd need to void again).

Either way...seems like you're overthinking it and/or are surrounded by toxic nosey people. If that's the case, I'm sorry you have to deal with that; it really shouldn't be this big of a deal, and you shouldn't need to worry so much about what people think of you.

Folks deserve better, they deserve privacy and dignity.

I imagine insurance companies force this stuff on bowel IC people by refusing to cover diapers for them but will cover for the other stuff. 

[babykeiff]

Anthing is achievable. It all depends on how much one wants it.

Diaper dependance, here people refer to it as bowel incontinence, is fully achievable and many people void autonomically when their bowels fill. This can be due to nerve damage / muscle control / brain issues / training. This is a habit a baby is taught - to void when their bowels fill. Babies use their diapers cause that is what they know, and also they realy do not notice or care for the social cues that a soiled diaper is an intrusion to others. All a baby feels is happy and relived when they fill their diapers. Toilet trained individuals are taught to break this habit, but like all habits, they are easy to restart. Bowel control is, in some views, an illusion. The anal sphincter can't really hold back liquid. As a result, bowel control for those that have same, is only based on diet.

For the social side, some chose, under medical direction, to attempt to keep their bowels empty as to avoid voiding in diapers while in public, but the *relevant medical intervention has cumulative side effects - i.e. can affect both the intestine and the stomach which, in some cases can cause *Gastro-oesophageal reflux disease or similar. As a result, some chose to revert to using diapers as they did as a baby and filling same autonomically. To address the social side, they take nullo or similar activated charcoal to reduce / eliminate the smell. Those who have colostomny bags also do similar.

In reference to the social side, where those believe that the smell of a messy diaper is more offensive than a wet diaper, the human nose and brain is more attuned to the smell of sweat and urine than it is to poop. Sweat and urine is full of pheromones, but contradicting scientific belief is that humans do not have the relevant organ to process pheromones. The contradiction is shown in the maternal/paternal bond between an offspring and its parents - i.e. when the child is wet, it is loved, and when it is messy, it is fussed over and cleaned. This is despite the fact that the baby being breast-fed supposedly does not emit any aroma when either wet/messy AND that a baby is basically an uncordinated dependant that, objectively, is ugly and a mess (according to most people except the childs parent). This was proven when, I think it was Mattel released a range of true to life dolls that a large proportion of the world percieved as ugly. Humans react / bond via chemical reactions within the brain. These become repeditive and then expected, and when not fired, become missed.

It is a fear, taught to us from toilet training, that poop smells and something to be avoided. Nullo or similar acts as an internal deodorant that can eliminate the smell.

Cave dwelling animals are toilet trained. Humans, being derived from monkeys, were tree dwelling creatures, and as a result, voided as and when they ate / shortly afterwards. It is the living in caves, later huts/houses that changed our toileting habits which is a cost to our digestive system.

In simple terms, loose bowel control can be managed by relevant medical intervention, but it is better, in my humble opinion, to avoid future complications and use diapers and Nullo or similar. Yes, as @Goerge has stated, one might mess their diaper shortly after a meal while out, but two things come into play - 1. The bowel is smaller and as a result, holds less and voids less - the diaper can easily hold same. and 2. Without the smell, it may even be difficult for you to realise that you messed your diaper.

From a personal perspective, at times when I change, only then do I realise that the diaper is not just wet. The slippery feeling that some here have talked about is not distinguishable from the diaper cream that I apply at each change. Without the cream, i would have to deal with diaper rash - which most diaper dependant here can attest to, trying to heal a painful rash when one has to wear a diaper to keep wet/mess getting on everything at home is not an easy position to be in - as a result, I try to avoid rashes at all times.

*relevant medical intervention - Laxitives, enemas, force bowel emtying, diet change, prescription medication to 'cork' the anus etc.

*Gastro-oesophageal reflux where stomach acid leaks upwards into the oesophageal tract (gullet) and burns same causing extreme heartburn etc. In extreme cases, it may need the insertion of a feeding tube or similar and/or surgery to implant an artificial valve at the top of the stomach. This is nomally identifed by the paitent dependant on regular antacid tablets (to calm indigestion etc.) following meals.