Untraining before or after trans bottom surgery?

[kittengirl173]

I'm a trans girl who's been on hormones for over a year and 9 months now. At this point, unless I tell them, people don't know I'm trans. It's really really cool, and I can't believe I'm just living life as a girl now! I socially transitioned a year and a couple months ago, so being a girl is just my norm now. It's hard to imagine that I ever looked different.

Anyhow, I do really want to get bottom surgery someday. But it won't be for years. My parents are extremely transphobic, and I'm banned from ever returning home. I can't wait to cut them out of my life, but for the moment I rely on them as they help financially support my undergrad degree (which I'm very lucky for). Another thing is that if I use their insurance for anything trans related, they said they will cut me off. So I won't be able to start the process of getting bottom surgery until after I graduate about a year and a half from now, and then I have to get into the financial position where I can afford the electrolysis/aftercare/etc, and then the process itself is over 2 years. So I won't be having a vagina for a while.

I want to start wearing diapers 24/7 sometime soon. I really want to become incontinent, but I'm afraid that if I do became incontinent, I'll no longer be allowed to get bottom surgery. I was reading Kif's posts (https://www.dailydiapers.com/board/index.php?/topic/79824-my-untraining-journey-trans-pre-to-post-op/), and she was in a similar dilemma. She ultimately decided to start untraining before bottom surgery, but then she changed her mind as she got closer to surgery. However, from what I read, it sounded like if she was incontinent, she still could have gotten surgery. My fear is the following:

- If I start untraining, I don't want to have any restrictions about it. I don't want to think, "I need to make sure I can still retrain when surgery comes along," as that will make the untraining sad (as I don't want to have to regain control) and I'll have hesitations, which will make it harder to lose control.

- If I am urinary or bowel incontinent, could I still get bottom surgery? Are incontinent people not able to get surgery down there?

Thanks for your thoughts. ? Regardless of what I learn, I've been experiencing urinary incontinence symptoms regardless, so I really want to start wearing diapers to help.

[Cute_Kitten]

For getting bottom surgery and incontinence, the best person to ask would probably be your doctor or surgeon since they'd have a lot of patients- maybe even some patients who have incontinence- plus the knowledge and resources to answer your question and offer advice. 

As for training before or after surgery- maybe consider or ask your doctor about how incontinence can affect the healing process. Like would you be able to wear diapers, or would you need to use catheters? What about bowel incontinence- how would that be handled?  Best of luck in both your journeys!

[kittengirl173]

Bottom surgery is so far down the road that I haven't started communication with a surgeon yet. I've narrowed it down to the two I'm likely goin got pick between, but I haven't contacted them yet and I won't for quite a while due to the reasons I said above. Thanks for the suggestion though!

You're right though that they must have other incontinent patients, so I think being incontinent while having bottom surgery is possible? I haven't seen much about it online though.

[Hannah YMS]

I can't imagine you not being able to get GCS because of incontinence. I haven't heard this before, so you should be alright. The best person for advice on this would be your doctor though.

[Rachael-Little]

Hey there, I’m sorry your family doesn’t accept you, I read so many stories like that and it just breaks my heart.

Big hugs to to, I hope you will work things out once your out on your own.

Being T is indeed a difficult life when there isn’t much support.

Look up your local PFLAG group they may have resources 

[~Brian~]

17 hours ago, kittengirl173 said:

I'm a trans girl who's been on hormones for over a year and 9 months now. At this point, unless I tell them, people don't know I'm trans. It's really really cool, and I can't believe I'm just living life as a girl now! I socially transitioned a year and a couple months ago, so being a girl is just my norm now. It's hard to imagine that I ever looked different.

Anyhow, I do really want to get bottom surgery someday. But it won't be for years. My parents are extremely transphobic, and I'm banned from ever returning home. I can't wait to cut them out of my life, but for the moment I rely on them as they help financially support my undergrad degree (which I'm very lucky for). Another thing is that if I use their insurance for anything trans related, they said they will cut me off. So I won't be able to start the process of getting bottom surgery until after I graduate about a year and a half from now, and then I have to get into the financial position where I can afford the electrolysis/aftercare/etc, and then the process itself is over 2 years. So I won't be having a vagina for a while.

@kittengirl173

I feel so bad for you! there are so many people in this world that would give their eye teeth to be able to have a good relationship with their parents. Sometimes what happens is you have things that go through your mind or you feel the way you do and people don't accept you for what you For what you are and who you are. you are in a very precarious position: you basically want to have your parents out of your life, and your parents have banned you from the house never to return, but they apparently want you to prepare and continue your education so they're willing to pay for this expense karma but they're extremely transphobic and they don't want to deal with or be able to understand what you are going through. quite sad!

So you're in a position where you're damned if you do when you're damned if you don't. just like I was: it gets to the point where it gets really old: I love my parents too, And I would love to say that for the most part the relationship between me and my parents has been a good one, and it is true. however there have been times when misunderstandings and things get blown out of proportion call, which causes major strife and lots of sleepless nights. sometimes I think at 50 years old, my parents still think I'm 12, because they keep on remembering things that I did as when I was 12, And they don't think I listened to them. On the contrary, I listen to a whole bunch of what they have to say and sometimes all I hear is a bunch of noise and I just want to shut that off. I want a relationship with my parents where I am respected as much as they want to be respected. I feel that most times I am, but then I feel as if when I get mad I have to eat it and throw it under the recliner and step on it! they have all the rights and responsibilities that they have to deal with, but I cannot get mad at them, because if I do then I might get in trouble and I might get disowned! I feel for you I really do you're in a place where no one would want to be and no one should have to be.

But take heart: you have the Here to take a negative and turn it into an extreme positive: it might take some time and it might take a lot of effort, but it can be done. Wearing diapers is the least Invasive thing that you can do. it will help you, and based on the trauma that this kind of relationship dynamic causes, I don't blame you for wanting to wear the thickest cutest diapers on the planet, and the thickest plastic pants you want, with a cutest dresses or skirts you want! you are going to be that PHD candidate, you are going to be successful, and you are going to be that math teacher or you are going to be whatever it is that you wanna be, be at a professor or a math teacher: to succeed young lady and you are going to go far!

for the record I hold an associate and a bachelor's in business. for many years, there have been people that would tell me that I would never really succeed, and that I would need all this help all my life. that has been true, but I have turned all these negative responses Responses on their ears because I have proven that I can do it. someone told me that I would never be able to do Certain things, and I've turned around and told them that I have been able to do it and I'm sure that I can. one does not go to four years of high school four years of college and five years of elementary school plus Head Start without having to deal with some sort of problems. I've always been the type of guy who has been a little scared of things, but once I got into the swing of things it was a lot easier than I thought. I couldn't really ask my parents for help in some cases because they have never been to college and never had to deal with Academia that I did. I even had my mother threaten me with getting pulled out of college because I couldn't finish in four years! I told my mother and no one certain terms in a polite way to go pound sand, because I wasn't gonna give up. I told her that for all of my living years you have always been there for me and told me never to give up: and now you're pulling my plug! screw that I said, I am going to do this and I'm gonna succeed. it got to the point where I had to bet my mother the cost of my tuition that I would get an A and a course,, and if I didn't I would repay her the money that was necessary to house Tuition. I made that bet with full intention of getting great grades in that one six week course, because I knew I could get an A.

You have every intention of being a successful young lady. as people have stated in other posts, it doesn't matter whether you wear diapers or whether you don't. It doesn't matter if you're an adult baby or a diaper lover or incontinent or whatever. there are many successful people who wear diapers every day, or use diapers every day, or they deal with age play. they work and they provide service to everyone in the community in some fashion shape or form period to be to be able to go to the extreme top of the scale where you want to become a PHD Is admirable and also very very lofty in your goal cycle. I remember when I got my associates degree: I was so damn happy that I started bursting out crying after I got it period to understand why I did that you have to understand that I was totally In a situation where I was disabled. I think people set low goals for people because they're disabled, thinking that if they don't really amount to much, then At least it was tried. I've been under supervision as far as being special needs from the time I started school until the time I got done high school. Setting high goals, kept on reaching for the stars, and I wanted to be treated just like my brother or my brothers that went through all the schooling they did. one of my brothers went to high school with me, five of my brothers went to other schools, four of them went to Christian school, graduating with their degrees and then two of them went into the workforce, while the rest of them went to college and got their degrees. Each of my brothers has their own uniqueness and they have their skills and they do whatever they can do for them for themselves for their families and they serve the community, my brother daniel for example served coastguard for eight years, and is serving in the Air Force Reserve, and has a family and he is a hard worker providing whatever they need and Being a good dad. my brother james is the same way. he works in the medical field he is a father to three young girls and he has a really good thing going. i'm proud of all of my brothers including my brother mike who works hard, and is someone who is here every day with me because that's where he hangs out. we get along really well, we don't have very many fights, and we take care of one another period that's what counts.

My point here is that some people set ridiculously low expectations for people with disabilities thinking that they're not gonna make those. All of my life I have been taught that the only way I'm gonna get somewhere is if I work hard. it really **** me off when I tried to make the mark on the wall, similar to you trying to get your PHD! what would happen is somebody would tell me that I need to do well in something. I do my best and then I make my mark on the wall: some azz Removes the mark on the wall because they don't think I worked hard enough or they make me redo something. So regardless of how hard I try I make my mark but it's never good enough. it's always been my expectation and the way I think that if I do my very best it should always be made As a mark because regardless of even if I don't succeed at least I tried.

Based on the fact that you told me that your parents don't accept you for what you are and who you are, all I wanna do is reach out and give you a great big hug and tell you: some people don't Except what they don't understand. me being a diaper lover and incontinent, I don't think anybody would understand the reason why I am a diaper lover. they would probably understand why I'm incontinent, because I'm disabled and it's just easier for me because of mobility and other issues to be incontinent, rather than to worry about running to the bathroom hurting myself. that is easier to understand than the diaper lover aspect. i've always loved diapers ever since I was eight, because as I said they feel good and they smell good and they make me feel little, make me feel euphoric like something is there and it's giving me an extra shot of something Of something that feels really good. it's like somebody giving me a super shot of heroin that is not lethal, but it's like giving somebody a supershut of endorphins where you feel like you're on the moon, and it feels so good you want it, just like that big succulent chocolate cake example I used. people aren't going to understand why that is the truth unless they've been where I'm standing or where I'm going.

Being a diaper lover or being an incontinent is not the end of the world:  It would be awesome if everything that we did in our lives was understood by those who love us or try to say that they love us and try to support us. alas that is not always the case: there are people in this world who would rather just throw away or forget or do not even try to except something that they can't even wrap their hands around. I can understand that people may not get why we feel the way we do, or why for example you wanna wear diapers so bad. most people think that a diaper is for a baby, and a baby needs a diaper, and that is fully acceptable, and is normal in society. when you turn around for an adult though, things change: of course adult diaper is there for those that need it, but some people may need adult diapers because of incontinence, they might like the diapers, they might like the feel of them, they might like to wear them, but there is a feeling probably that if you don't need them that it's kind of crazy or silly or whatever. That's the problem: people don't realize that there is a need psychologically emotionally physically spiritually I don't know: there is a need but it isn't medical in that in that sense. there are many people who wear diapers because they like the feel of them or because it gives them protection from something traumatic here, trauma is exactly what seems to be glaring me in the face: your parents ban you from your house never to return, and then they expect you to be able to run your life in a way the day would want you to, but they don't want you to come back? this is traumatic enough to be able to make you make you want to wear diapers, make you need diapers, and could be used as the force that your body needs to say that you need to be protected from Somebody who doesn't seem to understand your needs. People need the security and the emotional stability in their lives every day. we might not interact with our moms or our dads or people every day, but we need them in ways sometimes we don't understand.

So in addition to telling me that you enjoy your diapers, you have the reason for kneading diapers my dear: the only difference is that you're not using them like an adult who is totally incontinent yet! with the type of story you just told about not being accepted for whom and what you are, and being banned from your house and having to step on egg shells because you don't want to use health insurance or medical insurance for something like this because your parents would end up flying off the handle, that is very traumatic and very very uneasy! you have to walk the line between normality and your reality, because your parents reality is One thing and yours is totally another period it is too bad that people just don't get that you might not be happy the way you are now, you identify as something that you are not, but you feel you are, and that throws whole bunch of uncertainty forward. Believe me if I was a psychologist, and I could write you the prescription that would give you what you needed right now, you'd have so many diapers that you would end up having to build a storage building of three floors! sometimes what seems to be the hardest thing to do becomes easier when you have to run on your own reality, but be able to step into others.

As I said I am sorry that you are not accepted for what you are and whom you are! I have a feeling that you are going to be a very awesome either college professor or high school math teacher! I got a secret to tell you: when I was in school, I was terrible in math: I always seem to have problems, and most likely when I ended up having these problems because of my disability and my emotional stability and my ability to take care of my anger, sometimes I would just burst out crying because I couldn't control it. when you get angry and you don't know what you're doing because somebody won't give you the time, that stinks. you and I have one thing in common: I don't like math, and I try my best. you aren't accepted by your parents, and you have to run your own reality because you are given that ultimatum.  This puts you at a very easy position because you don't know how to proceed, because you can't jeopardize your college career and your academic Standing.

Based on what I've read and based on what I've responded: you've given yourself the reason why you need diapers: whether or not it is a medical reason is for somebody else to help you determine. as I've told you before, you don't necessarily have to have incontinence to wear diapers. there are medical reasonings for wearing diapers that don't require you to be incontinent, but may require you to go to somebody who may understand psychological reasonings or psychiatric reasons or whatever. the idea here is that whatever you do you need to be comfortable. I don't give two boxes of fruit loops, or a darn about anybody else who thinks that you are not in need of them: you've proven it to me:  far too many people are Change forever based on traumatic experiences, and those particular experiences will haunt you forever! the thing is you have to be able to decide how to deal with some of these things, and I think that diapers would help you in many ways. There because you don't have the control, or it's assumed that you don't have the control either way or both ways. As people have stated there's no problem in you wearing diapers and using them. you should not feel guilty or ashamed or any of that for wanting to do so. even if you were to end up whiting and messing yourself in your class, you would have the help of your diapers, and I'm sure that if somebody knew that you needed them, it wouldn't be a problem. the problem here is that I wouldn't want you to have to go totally crazy because of what you have to deal with with your parents or anybody else that has been causing you traumatic angst.

Therefore, I give you a great big ****************HUG************ and I tell you that as far as I can tell, you have very high aspirations, and you will succeed: keep telling yourself this: i'll tell you another secret: I remember when I was in college and one of the last particular tests I had to take for a final exam was for algebra. I had taken this class once before and had to drop it because of low grades. when I decided to go for a bachelor's degree, i've had to look at all the courses in the college catalog for that particular major: professional studies general business at Champlain College in Burlington VT. when I looked at those particular requirements, algebra was one of these requirements: therefore, I had to pass this course in order to get my degree. I was lucky enough that I was able to get another particular instructor that I was very close to. I told them that I needed to pass this class with a lot of vigor and Vimal otherwise I could not get to my bachelor's degree level courses. So I worked very hard with this particular instructor, so hard that I think I felt like putting my head through a 2 by 4 a couple of times because it was just ridiculous. I worked real hard and I actually spent a lot of time in his office, in the resource center, and doing a lot of extra studying so I would understand my algebra. The course and I had to take the test, I took all of my exams and I actually took all of my tests in the resource center, because I could take them on timed. When it was time to take my final exam, I scheduled all of them call, and then I went home and I started studying knocking out one exam after another no problems, and I was able to pass all of these. the one that was left with the hardest exam on the books my algebra test. it got so bad that I was thinking that I was gonna fail!

in comes my friend Matt: I told him that I thought I was gonna fail and he told He told me to tell him why. told him that I had to take that class twice and I had to drop it once. I told him that I was scared that I would never be able to pass this one course: I needed this one course to be able to proceed to my bachelor's candidate level courses. He said that he would help me: he told me that the first thing that he wanted me to do is to tell him that I was gonna pass this course! and I kept telling him that I don't think I'm gonna be able to pass!

he would say to me what did you just say! did you say you were gonna fail the course? and I said yes i'm going to.. and every time I'd say i'm gonna fail the corridors he would say that I'm gonna pass the course and he would yell you are going to pass this course you're going to pass this course you're going to pass this course every single time that I told him I was going to fail. he even threatened to tickle me and a submission!  every time that he would ask me if I was gonna pass, he wanted me to tell him that I'm gonna pass! he didn't want to hear that I was gonna fail and every time I told them I was gonna fail, he would end up telling me no you're gonna pass!

because of his positive attitude and because of him being positive that I was gonna pass or he was going to tickle me, I ended up going into that exam and thought that I was going to Badly, and I was sweating bullets. I did as many things as I could come, and I gave it my all this was the most important test of my entire life! I thought to myself if I ever failed this course I was never going to be able to move on and I would have to only have an associates, and that would give my mom the power to say that I didn't succeed! well let me tell you something: I went I went back after that and I told my friend Matt that I was nervous but I had a good feeling that I was gonna pass. He told me that he understood that I was nervous and now that the test was over with that I could relax, because he also had a good feeling feeling that I would I would pass.

What happened was that my math instructor that was teaching that course was in the building that was next to my dorm room: this instructor cared so much about my academic success that he found out where I was living on campus, because all of your instructors can get that information. he found out where I was living, he came out of the Math Hall, came down and saw me, knocked on my bedroom door and I opened it and there was my instructor: i'm standing there sweating bullets, thinking oh my god i'm gonna die, told me that he just corrected my test, and that I passed! he came all the way down from his office in the Math Hall to come over to my dorm to stand in front of me to tell me that I had finally beaten the one thing that was causing me a lot of angst: I finally passed a damn algebra class without being a failure! I finally prove to myself that I was worthy! and now because I was able to pass I had the confidence to be able to move forward and not have to worry about what other people thought or what other people believed: I knew that I was worthy and I knew I could pass, but I was so nervous about what would happen if somebody thought that I failed, that I lost composure for a while, I hugged my instructor, and I was in so much euphoria that I felt like I could do no wrong!

so, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you're doing an awesome job and you will succeed! I wanna see you with that PHD and I wanna hear that you are teaching a course of your choice somewhere: And not only that, but eventually you will be doing it as a full trans woman, with bottom surgery to match! I am proud of the way you have been able to deal with so much adversity, even though it is hard to do! it is hard for somebody that doesn't understand what the heck is going on to be able to accept it, but you have done so to the extreme level, but you have done it: don't let yourself be pulled by other negative influences: if you want to be the person you want to be, go get it! the only thing that's gonna be different is that it will take you longer to get around the blocks, the things that are stopping you from going for it right now:  I respect @Kif because she has gone through the process and has hit roadblocks since had to stop and start a couple of times because of the fact that it her to go through the transformation surgery on the bottom section because she had to stop Untraining, because you have to keep the area dry down there as things heal up. I respect all others that have to go through this type of surgery because it is not something that Is easy, and everyone that is trans has very difficult hills to climb, and they have to deal with so much emotional overload that it is ridiculous! I won't even say that I even understand how much emotional baggage they deal with - only to say that I respect all of the because they go through a all that no one else would probably even be able to Fathom are understand. if you are born in one body, and you identify as another gender, that is one of the hardest things that you have to deal with in my mind. you don't feel like the person you wanna be or the person you should be, and you have to go through a lot of other things in your mind that no one else probably would ever understand.

However, keep a stiff upper lip and roll on: because one day, you will be and you are a success, and you will be the one who is standing at the top of the mountain with your PHD in your hand and you will be able to scream and Holler and jump up and down because you are a try, and if you ever remember the old adage I am woman hear me roar! you will be able to do just that and you will be the one who is laughing at anyone else who was extremely transphobic because they didn't understand: but then you will have understood and do understand what you go through Hugs!

Good Luck!

Brian

[Kif]

21 hours ago, kittengirl173 said:

I'm a trans girl who's been on hormones for over a year and 9 months now. At this point, unless I tell them, people don't know I'm trans. It's really really cool, and I can't believe I'm just living life as a girl now! I socially transitioned a year and a couple months ago, so being a girl is just my norm now. It's hard to imagine that I ever looked different.

Anyhow, I do really want to get bottom surgery someday. But it won't be for years. My parents are extremely transphobic, and I'm banned from ever returning home. I can't wait to cut them out of my life, but for the moment I rely on them as they help financially support my undergrad degree (which I'm very lucky for). Another thing is that if I use their insurance for anything trans related, they said they will cut me off. So I won't be able to start the process of getting bottom surgery until after I graduate about a year and a half from now, and then I have to get into the financial position where I can afford the electrolysis/aftercare/etc, and then the process itself is over 2 years. So I won't be having a vagina for a while.

I want to start wearing diapers 24/7 sometime soon. I really want to become incontinent, but I'm afraid that if I do became incontinent, I'll no longer be allowed to get bottom surgery. I was reading Kif's posts (https://www.dailydiapers.com/board/index.php?/topic/79824-my-untraining-journey-trans-pre-to-post-op/), and she was in a similar dilemma. She ultimately decided to start untraining before bottom surgery, but then she changed her mind as she got closer to surgery. However, from what I read, it sounded like if she was incontinent, she still could have gotten surgery. My fear is the following:

- If I start untraining, I don't want to have any restrictions about it. I don't want to think, "I need to make sure I can still retrain when surgery comes along," as that will make the untraining sad (as I don't want to have to regain control) and I'll have hesitations, which will make it harder to lose control.

- If I am urinary or bowel incontinent, could I still get bottom surgery? Are incontinent people not able to get surgery down there?

Thanks for your thoughts. ? Regardless of what I learn, I've been experiencing urinary incontinence symptoms regardless, so I really want to start wearing diapers to help.

I have been summoned ?

Thank you for reading my thread! I'm sorry some bits weren't quite clear so I'll clarify a bit first:

• I was untraining for approx 6 months before surgery. I *thought* I made fair progress in my untraining, but compared to now it's really peanuts; yes I definitely had continence issues but compared to now I wouldn't consider it anywhere near the same level as what I have now. 
• I still plan to untrain once I've fully healed, but yes I did try reversing it as best as I could before surgery.

I do also still get the impression the surgery is technically possible BUT speaking from my experience recovering from it, it would have been quite a pain in the ass and I'd have consumed lots of thin diapers. Ofc that assumes I'd have been in diapers part of the recovery and not stuck with a catheter during the majority of it...which imho sucks lots too. 

I've met people that wore diapers early on in recovery, and worked with their doctor, but even then they recommended waiting for several weeks...and it was only for pee.

Honestly I think bowel incontinence might have been a bigger issue though...and on that I have little to no idea. 

When I had the surgery, I had incisions right up to centimeters next to my anus. It was also where the drainage exited. So...getting any kind of poo there was a biiiig no-no for keeping the stitches / open wounds clean. Heck, just going poo was terrifying for a while...I was afraid of pushing at all, and wiping was a very delicate and careful process. I have no idea what doctors might do to manage bowel incon...I wouldn't put it past them to install a temporary stoma just to keep everything clean, tbh...but ask, because (I'll get to that) bowel control dropped stupidly and unexpectedly fast.

Anyway...

Other thing to consider--even if you don't untrain leading up to surgery, you will need to be careful wearing postop if there's any chance you'll need a revision surgery because your continence may erode very rapidly and suddenly (I suspect due to the pelvic floor changes, unless I have unconfirmed Erhlers Danlos syndrome...which wouldn't surprise me for several reasons).

I've had three surgeries now, and I was supposed to have only two. Miiight be four if my hood doesn't heal correctly...a-fucking-again. Anyway, after the first surgery in March I didn't wear diapers very much...certainly not anywhere near 24/7 until maybe May. Then I had the revision in June (it was purely cosmetic / didn't touch my pelvic floor), and was wearing 24/7 again maybe end of July-ish? But between then and the end of September (a span of roughly two months) my control suddenly plummeted. You've read it, so you know I suddenly had less than 5 minutes bowel control and couldn't stop peeing once it started. And it continued to get worse, even after this last surgery in early November.

Point is...I had nearly 6 months dedicated continuous untraining before my surgeries. After them, I had at most three months total (only 2 months of that continuous) 24/7 wearing...and that 24/7 wearing wasn't deliberate untraining, yet my control plummeted (yeah I used diapers when I felt the need to post-op, but I wasn't pushing fluids, using timers, tracking, trying to go for bedwetting, doing any mind/hypnosis work, etc like before the surgeries). 

And having to deal with that after a third (cosmetic, but still in the diaper area) surgery has been a roooooyal pain in the ass. I really do need to be in diapers right now, but for things to heal properly I really can't. I need to keep the wound dry and clean, like bone-dry clean...and diapers aren't gonna help with that, even if I need them. So I've basically been chained to my toilet (actually shower, since I can't get it into the bowl...). I've gained back a small amount of control (so the urges aren't getting me bent over like they used to) but I still don't trust myself leaving the house without diapers on..and with all the emotions that come with healing and recovery, I feel terrified to use them and make the wound worse.

So...I dunno. 

If you want to go through with this, I would recommend you check with surgeons you are interested in up-front if the surgery is still possible with urinary and/or bowel incontinence, and what that would look like. Will you have to have a cath the whole time? A temporary stoma? Or can you wear without problems? If so, how often will you need to change to keep the dressings clean? (after every wetting? Or once every few hours? etc) I wouldn't bother reading around on reddit etc as (a) there's not much out there, and (b) each surgeon was different. I honestly regret not just asking up front about these things, it would have saved me lots of anxiety, worry, and guilt. 

And ofc, PLEASE do yourself a favor and get the one-and-done surgery...this on/off thing has been an emotional hell and I'd hate to see you go through that too! My surgeon did a two-part surgery where the first one makes the canal and the second one makes the finer labia details, widens the vaginal opening, and makes the clitoral hood...and while it's okay for a lot of people, it was an awful experience for me because it basically doubled (in my case, tripled or quartered) recovery time spent out of diapers even when I really could have needed them.

It's not my intent to discourage you, btw. 

Just that you should definitely go in more informed than I did. I'm hoping my story helps with that, and I'm hoping that if (I hope when) you ask for more details from your surgeons it goes much better for you too. (And honestly, with your existing urgency issues you absolutely should bring that up...peeing every 15 minutes as it is now will be a pain in the ass, and there's a good chance it'll be worse postop)

[~Brian~]

3 minutes ago, Kif said:

I have been summoned ?

@Kif

Aye! professor! you have been summoned!  not only that, but I'm gonna make sure To give you a great big hug!  All I can say is this process must be a complete cluster beep! of you both of you having to make decisions on how you will proceed in this in this foray. If there is one person that knows this process very well it is KIF. Not only has she been a very important part of process for me, in the fact that I had to be able to accept what I was and who I am, but she provides information that is important! I can say is this process must be very very emotionally draining as well as something that feels like true Valhalla at very high temperatures!

@kittengirl173 whatever happens: do not give up on your dream: this is something that is very important to you, and I believe that it will complete you in many ways. Once you begin the process and you know that process, and what to expect in most ways, you will be more And better able to decide how to proceed. you should always contact your surgeon and discuss things with him, but as KIF has stated, she has gone through this and knows a lot about what is what is going on physically, as well as the amount of time that it takes to as well as what the emotional task she has to complete is like and what it is done to her. I am almost positive that once this is complete for her, she will be a more comfortable individual and be able to do what it is that she wanted to do in the 1st place call: which would be to untrain and continue to wear and use diapers to her heart's content anything other than what makes her feel comfortable and whole.

I would not worry about what other people think or other people believe or what other people tell you about what your decision means. I am sure that you have gone through the ringer when it comes to making the decision that you have to make.  I'm willing to bet you but it is hard enough not to be accepted for whom and what you are, but to have to go through the trauma of what you have already gone through is horrendous. As I said before, you have proven to me that you need your diapers, and there is a legitimate reason for wanting to wear them. All I can say is that whatever happens, you will be an excellent professor in my mind, or an excellent math teacher teaching high school students. The best thing that you can do for yourself is to To enjoy the life you want to enjoy, rather than to endure all of the uncertainty, feeling like you live in a hell that you don't want to be in, as I said there is no crime in wearing diapers and enjoying them.  I would definitely use your fashion sense, adding diapers in one season whatever else you think is appropriate along with your skirts and dresses to your repertoire. I am sure as I am a guy, that the feelings that you will be experiencing Will be more advantageous to you than dealing with the hell that you have had to deal with. Having a diaper on means that you are secure secure that you don't have to worry about what happens under the hood. secure that it means that if you use a diaper, that's what it's there for. Because you feel so good with a diaper on, you will feel like a new woman: you won't have to worry about what your mom and dad or anybody else thinks, and you won't have to worry about that type of Hell. just be the woman you want to be, hold your head high And think of what you will be able to accomplish once you are able to be in control of the merry go round as it is spinning around.

Think of how pretty you will be, or how Cute you'll be in your dresses, or your tights, or your pantyhose, or your shoes even. think of a nice white dress, or a nice red dress or a dress of your favorite color, and how stunning that will be as you are walking down the hall.  once you have found a way to become the woman you want to be, and you earn better control of the merry go round as it spins, you won't have to feel like somebody is spinning the thing in reverse at high speed to try to undo what you want to do. far too many times people like to throw their weight around, or they think that they can try to change your mind by threatening you or coercing you! don't let that happen! be the woman you want to be, and I am assured that there are many of us here who are in support of your wish to become who you feel like and know that you are!

one of these days, you will be able to purchase The diapers that you want to or the clothing you want to purchase and wear it exactly as you have been. I bet you if you picked out a really cute diaper, that you would be able to rock it very easily! there's nothing in the rule book that says that you have to be upset or sad: you may be, but the thing is, if you find a way to be able to deal with these types of situations you, you will be able to hopefully regress and enjoy a time when you didn't have to be under so much stress. It probably will be a road that is difficult to traverse, but nothing in life is easy. once you have that Golden Ring in your hand and you know that you're at the top of the mountain nobody can knock you off: I remember somebody telling me that regardless of what I have done in my life, nobody can take away your achievements, nobody can take away those awards nobody can take away those degrees! those are yours and yours alone and you have earned every accolade you have achieved or obtained!

i'm sure that KIF would agree with me that you got this thing! make sure that you have A good support system behind you call and if you lack that, i'm sure that you will be You will be able to make plenty of good friends here that can help you through a lot of this. When I became school aged, I remember I remembered what my grandfather used to tell me that I can do anything I want And I can accomplish anything as long as I put my mind to it. many people put the blocks in my way, because they figured that I would not be able to surmount them and I would end up giving up and stopping. I learned that there may be blocks in your way, are things that are stopping you, but the best thing that you can do is To try to move those things out of the way. you may not be able to move them at first, but after hard work and dedication you may be able to go around them. Up on my quest to have my bachelor or my associate's degree or my diploma, and I sure as hell didn't give up when I decided that the best thing for myself would to be in diapers 24/7: I didn't quite understand why I felt the way I did, but that's the way I felt: I didn't quite understand how I would Fired this way or why, but many people helped me. I have many friends here on DD and that is because of the fact that we all share many things in common we all like diapers or we all are drawn here because we like an aspect of the lifestyle. I believe I am a better person because of people at KIF and other individuals who are here to help you, so many times people just need that little push, or that big hug, or sometimes you might fall into A big sticky vat of chocolate sauce! somebody has to pull you out of that vat, you help you clean up and then stand you up on your own 2 feet and let you run again! when you have good friends, that particular Operation is a lot easier because they will be behind you. you might run and fall on your face, but somebody's gonna run by you and pick you up dust you off and set you back on your feet and tell you to keep going: you might end up having a bad day and you might feel sad or unsure unsteady, but you have good friends here don't forget that: we are here to help you and help you understand So that you can make informed decisions to the best of your ability.

So why is I said: both both both of you are going through different stages of the same procedure as you go through these steps in the procedure it makes you a stronger person because you are able to understand and deal with many things! I feel confident that once you are both through this procedure you will be able to be the women That you want to be, and Both of you will be more secure in the knowledge that you'll be able to wear diapers without fear and without shame and be able to use them the way you want them to be used. once KIF goes through her last pieces of the surgery, she will be finally able to say i'm going back to diapers hooray! and she will be able to do exactly that!  that way, she won't have to say rats I have to stop doing what makes me feel better! she will be able to finally be the person she wants to be, and you will be in the same position.

By that I mean you'll be able to wear diapers from now until the day the day that you have to stop because you have to heal. you will be able to wear whatever you want to wear to be able to wear your diapers: your onesies your dresses your skirts, your tights or your pantyhose and your nice shoes are where you need, and you will be more comfortable with yourself if you're able to do that it will. it will also help you if you are indeed experiencing problems with your incontinence. you won't have to worry because your diaper will always be like on a friend that you have on underneath. one that says they are always there for you and one that is available should you need it. don't be afraid to use, don't be afraid to embrace it, be the person you want to be because in the end that is the goal you being the person that you feel comfortable being, with the job you want the most, and having a PHD is a very lofty goal, but it is 110% obtainable: you just have to be able to turn off all the negative naysayers, what I suggest is if somebody decides to give you some grief about it, think of a person that is being A pest, and they keep on picking on you. then take their voice and record and record it, and then speed it up so that it sounds ridiculous: so ridiculous that you end up bursting out laughing so loud that you probably would pee your pants if you had a full bladder! then every time somebody does that to you and they end up giving you a bunch of grief, speed up their voice and make it sound totally ridiculous, and you'll laugh your way out of a lot of different situations, because how can somebody that sounds so ridiculous do you any harm!

also KIF is very knowledgeable about what she is talking about: so she is a good resource for this particular situation! both of you are very strong ladies and I am sure that you will be able to get through anything if you work together and you lean on each other if it is necessary! that's what friends do and you've got at least two of them here me and her should you need us!

Brian

[kittengirl173]

5 hours ago, Kif said:

I have been summoned ?

Thank you for reading my thread! I'm sorry some bits weren't quite clear so I'll clarify a bit first:

• I was untraining for approx 6 months before surgery. I *thought* I made fair progress in my untraining, but compared to now it's really peanuts; yes I definitely had continence issues but compared to now I wouldn't consider it anywhere near the same level as what I have now. 
• I still plan to untrain once I've fully healed, but yes I did try reversing it as best as I could before surgery.

I do also still get the impression the surgery is technically possible BUT speaking from my experience recovering from it, it would have been quite a pain in the ass and I'd have consumed lots of thin diapers. Ofc that assumes I'd have been in diapers part of the recovery and not stuck with a catheter during the majority of it...which imho sucks lots too. 

I've met people that wore diapers early on in recovery, and worked with their doctor, but even then they recommended waiting for several weeks...and it was only for pee.

Honestly I think bowel incontinence might have been a bigger issue though...and on that I have little to no idea. 

When I had the surgery, I had incisions right up to centimeters next to my anus. It was also where the drainage exited. So...getting any kind of poo there was a biiiig no-no for keeping the stitches / open wounds clean. Heck, just going poo was terrifying for a while...I was afraid of pushing at all, and wiping was a very delicate and careful process. I have no idea what doctors might do to manage bowel incon...I wouldn't put it past them to install a temporary stoma just to keep everything clean, tbh...but ask, because (I'll get to that) bowel control dropped stupidly and unexpectedly fast.

Anyway...

Other thing to consider--even if you don't untrain leading up to surgery, you will need to be careful wearing postop if there's any chance you'll need a revision surgery because your continence may erode very rapidly and suddenly (I suspect due to the pelvic floor changes, unless I have unconfirmed Erhlers Danlos syndrome...which wouldn't surprise me for several reasons).

I've had three surgeries now, and I was supposed to have only two. Miiight be four if my hood doesn't heal correctly...a-fucking-again. Anyway, after the first surgery in March I didn't wear diapers very much...certainly not anywhere near 24/7 until maybe May. Then I had the revision in June (it was purely cosmetic / didn't touch my pelvic floor), and was wearing 24/7 again maybe end of July-ish? But between then and the end of September (a span of roughly two months) my control suddenly plummeted. You've read it, so you know I suddenly had less than 5 minutes bowel control and couldn't stop peeing once it started. And it continued to get worse, even after this last surgery in early November.

Point is...I had nearly 6 months dedicated continuous untraining before my surgeries. After them, I had at most three months total (only 2 months of that continuous) 24/7 wearing...and that 24/7 wearing wasn't deliberate untraining, yet my control plummeted (yeah I used diapers when I felt the need to post-op, but I wasn't pushing fluids, using timers, tracking, trying to go for bedwetting, doing any mind/hypnosis work, etc like before the surgeries). 

And having to deal with that after a third (cosmetic, but still in the diaper area) surgery has been a roooooyal pain in the ass. I really do need to be in diapers right now, but for things to heal properly I really can't. I need to keep the wound dry and clean, like bone-dry clean...and diapers aren't gonna help with that, even if I need them. So I've basically been chained to my toilet (actually shower, since I can't get it into the bowl...). I've gained back a small amount of control (so the urges aren't getting me bent over like they used to) but I still don't trust myself leaving the house without diapers on..and with all the emotions that come with healing and recovery, I feel terrified to use them and make the wound worse.

So...I dunno. 

If you want to go through with this, I would recommend you check with surgeons you are interested in up-front if the surgery is still possible with urinary and/or bowel incontinence, and what that would look like. Will you have to have a cath the whole time? A temporary stoma? Or can you wear without problems? If so, how often will you need to change to keep the dressings clean? (after every wetting? Or once every few hours? etc) I wouldn't bother reading around on reddit etc as (a) there's not much out there, and (b) each surgeon was different. I honestly regret not just asking up front about these things, it would have saved me lots of anxiety, worry, and guilt. 

And ofc, PLEASE do yourself a favor and get the one-and-done surgery...this on/off thing has been an emotional hell and I'd hate to see you go through that too! My surgeon did a two-part surgery where the first one makes the canal and the second one makes the finer labia details, widens the vaginal opening, and makes the clitoral hood...and while it's okay for a lot of people, it was an awful experience for me because it basically doubled (in my case, tripled or quartered) recovery time spent out of diapers even when I really could have needed them.

It's not my intent to discourage you, btw. 

Just that you should definitely go in more informed than I did. I'm hoping my story helps with that, and I'm hoping that if (I hope when) you ask for more details from your surgeons it goes much better for you too. (And honestly, with your existing urgency issues you absolutely should bring that up...peeing every 15 minutes as it is now will be a pain in the ass, and there's a good chance it'll be worse postop)

Both the surgeons I am considering do the surgery in one hospital visit (with of course follow ups to check in on the healing process), so I should be good there. I'm so sorry that you've been having to keep going in. ? That's really hard; sending hugs. ?? Thank you for all your thoughts and information on your own surgery process.

Also thank you Brian for your really kind and supportive words. ?I think that, because I probably won't be able to get surgery for 4+ years, I want to start wearing diapers how I want to wear them sooner than that. I do have bottom dysphoria, but I also don't completely dislike my penis because my penis is insanely small (it's one of the many reasons I believe I might have an intersex condition, but that's a tangent) and kind of cute. ? So while I would definitely prefer to have a vagina and I am upset that I can't get one sooner, if it wasn't possible for me to get a vagina someday because I was incontinent, I wouldn't be destroyed by that. But I'm hoping that wouldn't be the case and that I would be able to get surgery regardless.

5 hours ago, ~Brian~ said:

By that I mean you'll be able to wear diapers from now until the day the day that you have to stop because you have to heal. you will be able to wear whatever you want to wear to be able to wear your diapers: your onesies your dresses your skirts, your tights or your pantyhose and your nice shoes are where you need, and you will be more comfortable with yourself if you're able to do that it will.

This part made me feel very happy. ????  (START OF LONG STORY) One thing I'm reminded of was when I started HRT, as well right before when I decided whether or not to sperm bank. I've known I was trans since I was 12, but I wasn't able to transition because of my parents. My dad had said that I would never be a woman, that I was just a tall monster in a dress, and he once tackled me to the ground. ? So I knew my parents would not be accepting of me finally starting HRT. I was going to wait until after college, but I couldn't wait to start anymore. Regardless of the consequences, I would rather start HRT and perhaps have to drop out of college temporarily then be stuck on testosterone, a hormone that isn't for me. I knew that future Nia (Oh yeah: my name is Nia, pronounced "knee-uh." Hiiiiiiii!) would forgive me if she regretted starting HRT, because she would know that I made the best decision I could in the moment. This was a decision-making process I had talked about with my therpist at the time, and it helped guide me to fight against the anxieties my parents had pushed on me about transition. So at least, I began HRT. It turned out to be one of the best decisions I've ever made, and I'm so much happier as me. I'm a cute girl now!!! :DDDD 

Anyways, a few weeks before starting HRT, I had to decide whether or not to sperm bank. I knew I didn't want kids at the current moment, but it was always possible future me would change my mind (I'm now fairly confident I never want kids, but that's a whole other topic). I also was wondering if my parents would forgive me for starting HRT if I sperm banked. (Reminder that I was starting HRT without them knowing as I didn't want them to convince me to not start.) So in the end I decided to sperm bank through an online sperm banking website. However, I was dumb, and my parents had access to my bank account back then (they don't anymore, thankfully), so they figured out I was starting HRT. There was a lot of chaos in that time period, but even in his rage my dad did offer to pay for me to sperm bank at an in-person sperm-banking place because apparently even if he has banned me from returning home he still cares about the possibility of having grandchildren. ?‍♀️

Anyways, I ended up canceling the online sperm banking and went with an in-person place near my college. However, after banking once, I found out that my body produces very little sperm. (This is another one of the reasons why I think I might have an intersex condition.) I was told I was going to have to go in to sperm bank for 12 weeks in order to get enough sperm to ensure I could likely have a child someday with it. And in the end, I chose to only bank one more time and not 12-more-weeks' worth. I just wanted to start HRT asap, and I couldn't wait anymore. I was so scared of going bald as my dad went bald at 19, and I just wanted to be on estrogen asap. I also was extremely scared of my voice continuing to deepen (Though, it turns out my voice never deepened all the way in the first place, another reason why I think I might have an intersex condition. I don't meant to be talking about that topic but it keeps coming up, ha ha! But yeah, my voice before voice training was extremely fem, and now my voice is undectable as trans and it makes me feel so cute. People are shocked when I pull out my random "deep masculine voice" because my normal voice is so so fem <3, and it's a fun prank I have. ;D). So I made the decision to start HRT and bank very little. With similar logic as before, I thought future Nia would forgive me if she had retroactively wished I banked more because she knew I was doing the best I could in the moment. And so far, I haven't regretted that choice at all. ?

(END OF LONG STORY)

tl;dr So my point is that when making a decision with two conflicting factors, I make the decision I feel that's best for me in the moment, and if I regret it someday, I trust that my future self will be understanding. At this moment, bottom surgery is uncertain on when it will ever happen, when continuing to wear diapers is something I can do now in my present life. So I want to keep wearing diapers as I want to wear them, and if that means I develop incontinency, then that's what happens and I'll be happy. ?? I'll figure things out as they come, and I will live my life in the present while also considering the future. Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback.?❄️?✨?????

 

---*---

 

5 hours ago, ~Brian~ said:

Think of how pretty you will be, or how Cute you'll be in your dresses, or your tights, or your pantyhose, or your shoes even. think of a nice white dress, or a nice red dress or a dress of your favorite color, and how stunning that will be as you are walking down the hall. 

This probably isn't surprising, but pink is my favorite color. ??? It's kind of a symbol for my femininity that was denied from me for years by my parents. I love pink things a lot!!

5 hours ago, ~Brian~ said:

i'm sure that KIF would agree with me that you got this thing! make sure that you have A good support system behind you call and if you lack that, i'm sure that you will be

Oh, I haven't mentioned this on this forum yet, but I have an extremely supportive girlfriend who I've been living with since June. ? I told her early into our relationship about my little side because I didn't want to be rejected for it (me liking diapers partly contributed to the end of my previous relationship ?), and she thought it was cute. She also has an abusive family, so she could relate to a lot of the themes on why I age regress. Now she's my mommy. ? I think we have a healthy balance in that sometimes she's feeling subby and in those scenarios I can, if I'm emotionally in the right place, switching to being caregiving towards her. But a lot of the time when we're cuddling I'll feel little and hug my stuffed animals and her. ? Perhaps the best thing we do all the time is I'll suckle on her breasts while we lie next to each other. It makes me feel sooooo babyish and she lacates a little and aaaaaaaaaa it's heaven. ???????? I love her so much. ??

[~Brian~]

@kittengirl173

I am so glad that you have a supported system! that is paramount when you are trying to deal with what you have to deal with period it's very sad that your parents feel that you are not do you think you are. It's one thing if they disagree vehemently with something and It would be something that would be Hurtful to you. it's quite another when your parents Are afraid of something, and they try to make you feel guilty for being who and what you are. I've learned from experience that the best support system includes people that support you because they love you or they care about you and they want you to succeed. I can't tell you how important it was for me for example to be in college when I had to go through some of the hell I had to go through. my parents were supportive, but they almost didn't want me to graduate, because they didn't want me to complete one more 6 we course to be able to get my bachelor's degree. it was so annoying that it was ridiculous. I am not one to give up easy and I'm not gonna stand by and let somebody tell me that I can't get something that I really want or something that is so close that all I have to do is reach out and grab it! Additionally, they don't have to be the ones that would be kicking themselves in the can for not doing what you think is right. the right thing for me was to go to college for four years so I at least have something that I can hang my hat on, so I can show my skills to somebody and I can prove that I'm worth my salt. all through my life I have been told that I may not amount to much, or that What I'm trying to do maybe a little too much for me. when somebody tells me no it just makes me feel like I wanna do it more and more and more. I don't give up the ship easy, and when I do it's because I think it is the right decision, not because somebody else is trying to drive me into That decision. I want the life that makes more sense to me, and not something that everybody else thinks Appropriate. that is the reason why when you are 18 or 19 or 20, you decide What happens to you, and your parents will support you. Unfortunately, sometimes parents don't understand what you may go through and what you may feel like.

I'm glad that you have a girlfriend that is supportive of you, and allows you to be the lady that you want to be. it's always good to have that support system. perhaps your girlfriend can help you by helping you get the diapers that you really want, that make you feel complete. One of my favorite colors is pink too. I do not I feel bad about wearing a pink mega Max for example. they kinda remind me of the 90s versions of luvs for boys and for girls. They are awesome call and in a diaper I don't have to be worrying about anything: i'm just glad that they don't have to explain myself to people that don't need to understand. the worst thing that can happen is that somebody tries to stop you from being the person you want to be, or trying to put a block in the way. when that happens my dear, you just push the thing out of the way and say move out of the way i'm coming through!

I think you finally get it: you understand that diapers help you in so many ways: you feel like you are in orbit, and that it feels so good that you don't want to stop, you want to continue. wearing diapers completes you and makes you the little girl that you feel like you want to be and that you are. When you have a diaper on, you don't have to worry about what happened, because it just happens.  yes little girl, you need your diapers and, and that is something that you can do right now: my frienD @zombieg Made A video About how There are people that really want to wear diapers they really enjoy them. she made a point that some people like to procrastinate: she stated that when this happens, all people are doing is delaying the inevitable. She stated that people who really wanna wear diapers are only Delaying the obvious, and they should not do that. she stated that if you wanna put a diaper on stop procrastinating and put it on! you will then find that you are wondering for yourself why you waited so long! that is the most important thing if you feel that it is in your best interest to wear a diaper, and to enjoy it, and to dabble in the lifestyle, and to accept it, and then determine how far you want to go, the first step is to put that diaper on little girl! once you do that, you will find that you probably will be saying to yourself what intarnation did I wait so long for this is awesome!

And she is right too: I don't know why I waited so long: but I'm kinda glad I did in a way because now I am incontinent so I need the diapers anyway. part of the main problem is that I was fighting what I know to be true, and I was trying to be the guy that was denying The obvious. when she said stop procrastinating and do it, she meant exactly that, but some people resist really hard, thinking that they would feel Add or they would feel guilty or whatever. if you can feel guilty about it, i'm guilty of waiting too long: i'm guilty of not allowing myself the pleasure of enjoying what I am now enjoying at a younger age. in a way i'm kinda glad that it happened the way it did, and I'm kinda glad that I did have the people and I still have good people here on DD that can help me to understand what it is that I'm dealing with period i'm sure that there are many people that have been in your position, and can tell you what it felt like to go through That you are experiencing and have experienced. because you have your girlfriend, and you have a solid support system, that is a good start, now all you have to do my dear is to put that diaper on and enjoy it, embrace it, let it be a part of you, and then Over the top then you can become the cute little girl that you always wanted to be period now you can also become the girl where you feel euphoric and you feel like nothing can stop you: a diaper is your friend and always will be: now all you have to do is open the gates and allow all your feelings to come through: the grasp them and enjoy them, because I can guarantee you feel You feel a lot better now than you did before yes?

So now all you have to do is go out and buy yourself some diapers: I would end up getting you the cutest ones that you can find are the ones that you really love! to really enjoy a diaper, in my opinion it has to be plastic back and it has to be cute! I love my Mega Max's and I wouldn't trade them for $1,000,000! although, I would like to be able to get some of the cute diapers that they make from rear from rearz, are ones that make me feel really cute myself. such as the baby astronauts or whatever they Make now. It really makes me feel good now because I am Them, and I don't have to hide it anymore. this is not to say that when I go somewhere I show off, but I don't have to feel guilty or bad because I feel the way I do or because I like what I have.

*********HUGS********

Brian

[babykeiff]

On 12/1/2022 at 11:33 PM, kittengirl173 said:

I'm a trans girl who's been on hormones for over a year and 9 months now. At this point, unless I tell them, people don't know I'm trans. It's really really cool, and I can't believe I'm just living life as a girl now! I socially transitioned a year and a couple months ago, so being a girl is just my norm now. It's hard to imagine that I ever looked different.

Anyhow, I do really want to get bottom surgery someday. But it won't be for years. My parents are extremely transphobic, and I'm banned from ever returning home. I can't wait to cut them out of my life, but for the moment I rely on them as they help financially support my undergrad degree (which I'm very lucky for). Another thing is that if I use their insurance for anything trans related, they said they will cut me off. So I won't be able to start the process of getting bottom surgery until after I graduate about a year and a half from now, and then I have to get into the financial position where I can afford the electrolysis/aftercare/etc, and then the process itself is over 2 years. So I won't be having a vagina for a while.

I want to start wearing diapers 24/7 sometime soon. I really want to become incontinent, but I'm afraid that if I do became incontinent, I'll no longer be allowed to get bottom surgery. I was reading Kif's posts (https://www.dailydiapers.com/board/index.php?/topic/79824-my-untraining-journey-trans-pre-to-post-op/), and she was in a similar dilemma. She ultimately decided to start untraining before bottom surgery, but then she changed her mind as she got closer to surgery. However, from what I read, it sounded like if she was incontinent, she still could have gotten surgery. My fear is the following:

- If I start untraining, I don't want to have any restrictions about it. I don't want to think, "I need to make sure I can still retrain when surgery comes along," as that will make the untraining sad (as I don't want to have to regain control) and I'll have hesitations, which will make it harder to lose control.

- If I am urinary or bowel incontinent, could I still get bottom surgery? Are incontinent people not able to get surgery down there?

Thanks for your thoughts. ? Regardless of what I learn, I've been experiencing urinary incontinence symptoms regardless, so I really want to start wearing diapers to help.

I suspect that apart from your doctors, - which I presume that you are nowhere near them in relation to trans work due to your parents rules re trans and cutting you off - the best person I suggest you talking might be Riley Kilo. She is trans. I think that she used to be a member here, but now has her own site, and can be found on YouTube as well as on the web.

[Kif]

Awh! You two sound precious, I'm so happy for the both of you! ? 

Either way it sounds like you're thoroughly prepared for all this and I wish you good luck on everything. (and thanks for your support as well)

 

[Hannah YMS]

On 12/2/2022 at 7:21 PM, kittengirl173 said:

tl;dr So my point is that when making a decision with two conflicting factors, I make the decision I feel that's best for me in the moment, and if I regret it someday, I trust that my future self will be understanding. At this moment, bottom surgery is uncertain on when it will ever happen, when continuing to wear diapers is something I can do now in my present life. So I want to keep wearing diapers as I want to wear them, and if that means I develop incontinency, then that's what happens and I'll be happy. ?? I'll figure things out as they come, and I will live my life in the present while also considering the future. Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback.?❄️?✨?????

I think this says it all.

[Ivanna P. Friely]

Hiya, I went through GRS surgery around 8 years ago. I can't offer as much relevant advice as @Kif but I just wanted to add I wouldn't be surprised if some doctors did refuse to operate, things might have changed now but back then some demanded you be in peak physical health so as not to make their results look bad. I'd also add that even though it's possible, it might be a complicating factor that could delay your healing: even if the surgery is a perfect success the area is raw and swollen for months (it actually stays a bit swollen for over 12 months but the first few months it's extremely puffed up) and the main thing that helps it all go down and gives better outcomes with scarring and even sensation is maintaining cleanliness and not stressing the skin out, internal and external. The first 6 months is where you're most at risk from the major complications like prolapse or fistula etc. So yes it's surely possible, but something to bear in mind is that it could make your recovery suck. Bowel IC would be especially problematic, in the early days they ask you to shower after every bowel movement just to be sure no bacteria can get to the front door. You're required to douche & clean with disinfectant several times a day in the first months too, so as Kif mentioned you'd be using a lot of diapers.

That said obviously it's important to you and you'll do what you need to, just be aware you're already in for a rough 6 months at least and you might not want to make that harder than it needs to be. The pain can last longer, especially if you don't get enough rest at the start but complications can mean more scarring, scarring is what causes more long term pain. And obviously a serious infection can cause the major complications like prolapse or necrosis. 

In good news though, one of the not often discussed but very common complications of this surgery is actually incontinence! The pelvic floor gets dissected near the sphincters and the urethra relocated, this often results in some nerve damage but even if not a loss of strength in the pelvic floor can be expected. Also the bladder sits in a different position because the neovagina displaces it slightly. Personally I got a bit of stress incontinence in the deal - not a huge deal but certainly less continent after the surgery. I couldn't afford to stop working for more than 6 weeks and my work is pretty active with a bit of heavy lifting so maybe that helped the IC, certainly dragged out the healing!