Advise for writing.

[fuzzybunny]

Hello, 

So I'm thinking about getting back into writing but I need advise. I'm looking to improve my skills of having the character speak. I usually have the mistake of having "this character said this" John doe said nervously. And then describing there action. (So any advise would be good for that) 

Then any advise of short story planning and describing the scene or actions. 

Thanks

FB 

(Sorry for the long post) 

[Cute_Kitten]

Checkout the Capcom writing panel thread posted in this subforum. Personalis gives great advice and there's no one better to learn from. He's a very well known and respected ABDL writer. I'd link but I'm on my phone.

[LittleFenny]

I'll second the advice to look at the CapCon panel slides, Personalis did a great job filling those with good advice. It isn't one of those one slide for every quarter hour of talk slide decks but almost a hundred slides. There isn't much I remember in it on the specific issue you mention however. For that, try writing something them setting it aside for at least 24 hours then coming back and looking at it again. We are really good at reading what we expect to see which is only even more true when it is our own writing. Setting the document aside for at least a day, preferably more like a really active weekend or a while week or month, allows you to look at it with fresher eyes. A tip I have sometimes used on things written for work is to work through it backwards. If you are using a printed copy, cover the page with another piece of paper and slowly slide it upwards going a line or two at a time. Or for a document on computer scroll all the way down, add some blank lines, and then slowly scroll up so a line or two appear at a time. This way you won't get caught up as much in the story or meaning of the document and can concentrate on just to newly exposed lines. The advice in the presentation to get someone else to do an editing pass is good, but be willing to switch to someone else if the person you ask isn't a good fit. Like if you ask for help with how you do dialog but all they give you is spelling & grammar markup. That said, if someone is volunteering to do editing you probably want to be patient since if done well it's something that actually collects decent pay when done professionally (I just did a google search and it suggested the low thousands of dollars to do the spelling & grammar type of editing on a novel and $5-10K to do the more structural editing work, for short stories drop a zero and you're probably in the ballpark).

 

What I've read about learning says that the mere fact that you have something specific you are trying to improve is actually a very good thing. If you look up the concept known as deliberate practice is says to pick something specific to improve, find a way to measure it, practice it, get feedback from someone more skilled (the quicker the better), and repeat. You might try writing a scene or two and post them asking for feedback. While I don't see it in the last few months of posts I'm sure I remember someone starting a thread where they said they planned to just write short bits when they felt like it and I don't remember seeing a negative reaction. If you're really wanting to workshop them, asking for feedback then rewriting and asking if it's better, then you probably want to post it here in the critiques and writers discussion forum. But say a scene a week, just asking for feedback, then writing new scene maybe connected and maybe not, I expect that would do fine in the main story and art forum.

[WBDaddy]

I've said this before elsewhere (I think it was in the pinned thread at the top)

When you write dialogue, it's worthwhile to consider, "Would I (or anyone else) say it this way in this setting?"  Think about whether you're using overly formal words in a casual setting, or overly casual words in a formal setting.  As @RambleLamb said back to me in that conversation, "I read the dialogue out loud to see if it's something I'd actually say."

[spark]

1 hour ago, WBDaddy said:

I've said this before elsewhere (I think it was in the pinned thread at the top)

When you write dialogue, it's worthwhile to consider, "Would I (or anyone else) say it this way in this setting?"  Think about whether you're using overly formal words in a casual setting, or overly casual words in a formal setting.  As @RambleLamb said back to me in that conversation, "I read the dialogue out loud to see if it's something I'd actually say."

I'll second that.   IMO, dialogue is the best way to establish the personality of your characters.   The personality of the characters is key.  Even one-dimension characters can have depth if you find the voice for that character.   I always imagine this person in real life, and to help- most of my characters are based on real-life people that I know personally.   It is never a direct representation because that's impossible, but it helps me find the voice for that person.

It is also important to understand that GOD created paragraphs for a reason, please use them.   Please remember to start a new paragraph when the speaker changes.   It is very important to do this, because it helps the story flow, and helps the ready follow.   I've seen this rule broken so many times, on many different formats.    Most of the time when I see this happen, I don't waste my time.  If the premise intrigues me, I'll sometimes read through it, but then lose patience and stop.  

Another minor point is to use formatting to differentiate between internal dialogue and external dialogue.  AFAIK, there is no accepted format for inner dialogue, but italics seem to work for me.  Tightening the margins might work for long sequences.

[WBDaddy]

10 minutes ago, spark said:

Another minor point is to use formatting to differentiate between internal dialogue and external dialogue.  AFAIK, there is no accepted format for inner dialogue, but italics seem to work for me.  Tightening the margins might work for long sequences.

I use italics for inner dialogue as well, for that exact reason.  

[spark]

20 hours ago, WBDaddy said:

I use italics for inner dialogue as well, for that exact reason.  

That seems to be the most common formatting among strong writers.

[PeculiarChangeling]

I've taken to using parenthesis for internal dialog, simply because several places I post stories to screw up my italicized formatting and it's less work if I just don't use italics for anything important, rather than manually fixing all internal dialog! Just a minor detail I thought I'd add. 

[InkuHime]

If you want more mechanical approach to the craft part....

Go to the library and grab a book or three. Books that have been edited, copy edited, and printed. Look at what those authors have done in the way of dialogue (so I guess I should add make sure the books are prose with a lot of dialogue). Look at the structure on the page, see what published authors (several drafts deep) do with the help of editors and copy editors, get an idea of what 'good' structure looks like. You might keep a few pages close by and refer to them are you are writing, but I think if you look at a book for its structure you'll probably have a good idea of the format you'll want to emulate as you develop your own style. Watch carefully though, published authors, editors and copy editors will sometimes break rules, but only because they're really good and know when breaking a rule makes things better. It's not something you want base your style on.

I'd also say worrying about the font to use for internal dialogue is not the thing that will improve your dialogue (I'd put it equal to practicing your signature for when you get famous so you can sign autographs - but that's me). Depending on your perspective it might not even matter. Try writing from a limited non-omniscient third person perspective where you just describe what the characters say and do but never what they think. Can you make it clear what a character is thinking by their actions and words?

YMMV

[Personalias]

2 hours ago, InkuHime said:

If you want more mechanical approach to the craft part....

Go to the library and grab a book or three. Books that have been edited, copy edited, and printed. Look at what those authors have done in the way of dialogue (so I guess I should add make sure the books are prose with a lot of dialogue). Look at the structure on the page, see what published authors (several drafts deep) do with the help of editors and copy editors, get an idea of what 'good' structure looks like. You might keep a few pages close by and refer to them are you are writing, but I think if you look at a book for its structure you'll probably have a good idea of the format you'll want to emulate as you develop your own style. Watch carefully though, published authors, editors and copy editors will sometimes break rules, but only because they're really good and know when breaking a rule makes things better. It's not something you want base your style on.

I'd also say worrying about the font to use for internal dialogue is not the thing that will improve your dialogue (I'd put it equal to practicing your signature for when you get famous so you can sign autographs - but that's me). Depending on your perspective it might not even matter. Try writing from a limited non-omniscient third person perspective where you just describe what the characters say and do but never what they think. Can you make it clear what a character is thinking by their actions and words?

YMMV

THIS!  One of the best ways to become a better writer is to read!  Read for enjoyment, then re-read and analyze what the author did to make you enjoy it so much.  And I don't mean "the writer wrote about the thing I like".  HOW you construct the words is just as important as the subject matter.  Finding those specifics, reading and re-reading and asking yourself what the author is doing there to draw you in is just as helpful (if not more so) than taking isolated examples from fiction that you have no personal connection to.

For that reason, I'd recommend reading non-kink stories, even if they're just kid's chapter books.  Speaking personally, it's easier for me to analyze techniques and THEN add in the squirmy diaper stuff then it is to read squirmy diaper stuff and figure out why it made me squirmy. Porn is a genre like any other...but it's easier for me to analyze and make porn when the blood is all rushing to the top if you know what I mean.

Goosebumps, Warriors, Animorphs, Magic Treehouse, all have solid foundations to study from; not to mention any number of classic literary examples.  (Ex Elementary Teacher...so my curriculum got kind of specialized)

On dialogue, something I noticed that a series from my childhood, Animorphs, did really well was giving characters very specific ways of speaking. Things that they would say that would let you know who was talking before you even read the end of a sentence sometimes.  Not quite catchphrases.  But they're excellent ways of expressing the characters through their words.

Rachel, the pretty girl who discovered that she was a fearless bad ass:  "Let's do it."  All but her battle cry. Not a shout. Just a flat line. The thing said when the gang has laid out a strategy that is an absolute suicide mission but it's the only way to pull out a win.  These "adventures" hardened her to the point where she realized she could probably never go back to a normal life...like a veteran who wouldn't be able to handle being a civilian again.

Marco, the cynical, logical strategist who was never quite as gung-ho as everyone else:  "Insane!"  ie: "Are you insane?!"  "This is insane!"  "That's insane!" Always "insane".  Not crazy. Not mad.  Not bonkers.  "insane".  They were just kids, set with the fate of the human race on their shoulders and this should NOT be something to laugh and play about. This was NOT healthy or good, and it was VERY IMPORTANT to him that his friends knew that and not get caught up in the power fantasy of it.

Axamilli-Escarouth-Isthill aka "Ax", the shapeshifting alien adapting to both Earth culture and his alternate human form.  "Prince Jake"  (All aliens of his race served a "Prince" as part of a military chain of command.)  Jake lead the Animorphs, thus he was "Prince" as far as Ax was concerned.

ie;  "We only have thirty of your minutes before we have to de-morph Prince Jake."
"Ax, they're everybody's minutes. Not just ours."
"Yes, Prince Jake."
"And stop calling me Prince!"
"Yes, Prince Jake."

That and Ax would constantly play with human words when he morphed human.  "We have only thirty minutes. Minutezzzzzz. Miiiiiiin....min-uuuuuuutzzz. Zuh zuh zuh.  Ssssss..."  (Ax's race was telepathic so using a mouth to speak was amusing to him.  Ax was a big comic relief character.)

And I can never forget Visser-Three.  Who started off all of his villanous monologues with "Ah, yes!"  Such an awesome 90's cartoon villain in how he was presented.  "Ah yes, the Andalite bandits.  I might have expected your pathetic interference."  And if you didn't read that last sentence in the voice of Beast Wars Megatron, you did it wrong.