Update on my guide to untraining aka Targeted Untraining.

[Enthusi]

Hi all, I just wanted to give an update of where I am with my guide on Targeted Untraining.   This is a TOTALLY different approach to untraining compared to the 12-month regimen and others.  It’s based on the techniques I used to untrain myself. 

The premise behind my approach is as follows:

1. Understand how bladder control works.  What, precisely is a bladder? How do the sphincter muscles stop or promote bladder leakage? What does the spinal cord (voiding reflex) and the midbrain (Subconsciously holding it in) and cerebrum (voluntary override) have to do with it?  What about the kidneys and pelvic floor muscles? 

2. Once we know who all the critical parts of bladder control work we can come up with techniques aka “weapons”  to sabotage and disrupt the system. 

3. The weapons we are most interested in are cognitive and behavioral.  For instance self talk and guided imagery to help you trust your diaper more than your body to keep you dry.  Positive reinforcement to keep you motivated. Practice relaxing the sphincter muscles and pelvic floor.  And so on. 

4.  Be creative and come up with your own techniques to address your personal barriers, and stack and combine techniques to your advantage. 

(Note: I focus exclusively on bladder control, but the same sort of approach can also be applied to bowel control.)

The advantages of my system are that it is biologically based, personalized, and flexible.  The drawbacks are that it is less structured and requires the reader to learn and apply abstract concepts.  I can imagine this would be intimidating and overwhelming for some people.  
 

Where I’m at: 

I am about 80% done  but I’m moving at a snails pace due to…life. I have a rough draft done. My introduction is very choppy and needs refined. I haven’t proofread my guide. Also I don’t know how easy it is to read and follow especially for someone who doesn’t know much about how bladder control really works.  

My ask:  I would love some help with proofreading and tightening up the language so it is as easy to follow as possible to minimize the drawbacks I mentioned above. If someone wants to help me write the intro that would be icing on the cake.   Bonus points if you already  understand the basics of bladder control and are psychologically minded. 

Once the guide is written I will need an anonymous and yet accessible place on the web to host the file. One that can be shared and linked to on social media. @DailyDi mentioned they might be able to help. If anyone has other suggestions I’m all ears.   

And last but not least I will need help getting the word out. ?

Anyways this is a labor of love.  My approach works. It encourages flexibility and personalization and complements other approaches out there.  I just need help getting it done. 

[oznl]

To be honest, I'm probably less useful at proof-reading than I might be at taking a few high level points or some rough notes and re-writing it as prose.  Although (unlike many on the internet) I am AWARE of punctuation, my beloved is there to remind me that I'm far from expert.

I'd suggest chopping the task up into smaller pieces to see if it's what you want.  I'd be happy to help but I'd say give me one smaller chunk to see if what I do is what you're looking for (intro?).

I did write an intro on 24/7 once.  It never went anywhere

 

[Spargano]

I would be happy to help proof read. I can also help with a forward if the body of work calls inspires one.

[spark]

I've mentioned this hack in the writing forum, but I'll do it here as well.

I'm a terrible copy editor,  I read in chunks, so I don't always pick up grammar errors.  Grammarly does a good job with punctuation, but not a great job with grammar (it doesn't seem to read what you want to say).     But if you combine it with the MS Word editor, you get most of the issues.  The final step is the have the computer read it aloud to you.  It will sound clunky and unnatural if it's a word salad, and you can keep editing it until it sounds right.   I rarely go through a reading without making any changes, and I keep doing that process until it reads through without me stopping to fix something.

[Zero_Escape]

@Enthusi - I've been lurking the inc desires forum for quite awhile and been following you behind the scenes so to speak.

It's always a pleasure to see new methods/ideas crop up. I want to throw it out there and say that I am in fact a certified proofreader and copywriter (I am called a grammar nazi in fact) and would be delighted to give your article a whirl. Free of charge - no strings attached. TBH I enjoy proofreading and I usually leave the copywriting aspect to a minimum as to not change the author's main ideas - if that makes sense. I usually do grammatical "rewording" if the sentence/statement in question is a little confusing or too abstract for a general audience.

This is just an offer of my services to you as an act of repaying for your sagely advice - not to mention I am a huge fan. You can reply here or PM me if interested. I hope you have a great weekend!

[~Brian~]

17 hours ago, spark said:

I've mentioned this hack in the writing forum, but I'll do it here as well.

I'm a terrible copy editor,  I read in chunks, so I don't always pick up grammar errors.  Grammarly does a good job with punctuation, but not a great job with grammar (it doesn't seem to read what you want to say).     But if you combine it with the MS Word editor, you get most of the issues.  The final step is the have the computer read it aloud to you. 

@Enthusi@spark

just wanted to make a point: when you are doing copy editing, you have to be extra careful with a word processor, because what will happen is if the word processor does not understand what a word is, or doesn't or isn't programmed to understand slang, anything that is in slang will be redlined, or anything that may be considered a run on sentence may be tagged that way as well.

Spell check has its purpose, and I use it all the time myself, but you always have to be careful because you might spell something right, and the usage may be wrong, or you may think that something is spelled wrong when it is right. It all depends on what you are reading, but sometimes usage may be wrong, sometimes it is right, but you always have to be careful when using a spell checker, so you should always read it allowed if possible, because that would clue you in if there's something wrong.

The reason why spell check became popular is because no one is perfect with their spelling of their grammar or their usage. I used it all the time when I was in college, but Even so sometimes what I thought was right was wrong, and sometimes what is right was right, but you have to be careful when using spell checkers. Sometimes reading things, you may be used to your own writing, so you might not see a problem, so it's always better to have another set of eyes or another couple set of eyes look at the same copy. You won't regret it, because sometimes what happens is somebody else reading it two you are reading from it could clue you into an issue.

Good luck and keep me advised

Brian

[Enthusi]

@Zero_Escape omg I may take you up on that.  Can you message me? 
 

@spark I never tried that but now I kind of want to. Sometimes in my “grown up” life I read passages of things I’m writing to my spouse and I always without fail catch problems. 
 

@Spargano and @oznl  I’ve been thinking of other content areas for the guide that I would love to include but haven’t gotten to: 

 

1. For the first section on understanding how bladder control is supposed to work, I made a bullet for the body parts and a sentence or two of what each part does and a link to some YouTube videos.  It would better to list each component followed by a longer narrative description.  Along with this I would love to paint the bladder control (“Bladder control” with capital BC) as a villain and personify it villainous qualities.  My goal would to entertain the  reader by adding some drama. 
 

2. I just had an idea to add a section at the end about special considerations and modifications such as: 

- Limiting incontinence to only times you are diapered. It’s theoretically possible but you’re not as forceful in your attacks and you are sending your body mixed messages. 
 

- Achieving bedwetting:  Bladder Control teams up with its sinister friend Anti-Diuretic Hormone (ADH) at night to limit urine production.  So to achieve night time incontinence you need to subvert that process by getting your body to not release ADH. Difficult but doable and you need to feel safe that your diaper will keep you warm and dry so you don’t have to worry about it.

- Learning to pee in different positions. 

- A common question we often get is “Do you practice making your self go when you feel the urge or do you let nature take its course?”  No clear answer. My suggestion is when you’re just starting make yourself go, until it becomes a conditioned response and until your bladder muscles weaken. 

- Spiraling: Aka activating Bladder Control’s self-destruct sequence.

- Applying the approach  to bowel incontinence. Learn how bowel control works, find the weak spots, and come with ways to target and undermine it. 
 

There are probably more special considerations, but that’s a good start.

Anyways, if you guys or anybody else wants to help tackle either number one or number two above that would be awesome. I can send my draft.

[Zero_Escape]

1 hour ago, Enthusi said:

@Zero_Escape omg I may take you up on that.  Can you message me? 
 

@spark I never tried that but now I kind of want to. Sometimes in my “grown up” life I read passages of things I’m writing to my spouse and I always without fail catch problems. 
 

@Spargano and @oznl  I’ve been thinking of other content areas for the guide that I would love to include but haven’t gotten to: 

 

1. For the first section on understanding how bladder control is supposed to work, I made a bullet for the body parts and a sentence or two of what each part does and a link to some YouTube videos.  It would better to list each component followed by a longer narrative description.  Along with this I would love to paint the bladder control (“Bladder control” with capital BC) as a villain and personify it villainous qualities.  My goal would to entertain the  reader by adding some drama. 
 

2. I just had an idea to add a section at the end about special considerations and modifications such as: 

- Limiting incontinence to only times you are diapered. It’s theoretically possible but you’re not as forceful in your attacks and you are sending your body mixed messages. 
 

- Achieving bedwetting:  Bladder Control teams up with its sinister friend Anti-Diuretic Hormone (ADH) at night to limit urine production.  So to achieve night time incontinence you need to subvert that process by getting your body to not release ADH. Difficult but doable and you need to feel safe that your diaper will keep you warm and dry so you don’t have to worry about it.

- Learning to pee in different positions. 

- A common question we often get is “Do you practice making your self go when you feel the urge or do you let nature take its course?”  No clear answer. My suggestion is when you’re just starting make yourself go, until it becomes a conditioned response and until your bladder muscles weaken. 

- Spiraling: Aka activating Bladder Control’s self-destruct sequence.

- Applying the approach  to bowel incontinence. Learn how bowel control works, find the weak spots, and come with ways to target and undermine it. 
 

There are probably more special considerations, but that’s a good start.

Anyways, if you guys or anybody else wants to help tackle either number one or number two above that would be awesome. I can send my draft.

@Enthusi - I PM'd you with a sample of my work. Let me know if I can be of assistance.

[oznl]

2 hours ago, Enthusi said:

- Achieving bedwetting:  Bladder Control teams up with its sinister friend Anti-Diuretic Hormone (ADH) at night to limit urine production.  So to achieve night time incontinence you need to subvert that process by getting your body to not release ADH. Difficult but doable and you need to feel safe that your diaper will keep you warm and dry so you don’t have to worry about it.

As it seems that I’ve trained myself to the point of semi-regular bedwetting, I feel I can speak to this.

I’m not sure that I’ve done anything physiological to my ADH circuitry.  Overall, it’s my “day” nappy that sees the lion’s share of the action.  Bedwetting events, such as I’ve been able to observe them closely, are seemingly fairly low volume voids and will typically first occur within three hours of falling asleep.

They do not appear to be driven by a full bladder.

Rather, they appear to reflect the persistence of my long-installed daytime habit of high frequency/low volume voiding past the veil of sleep.

During the prolonged transition-to-bedwetting stage, I noticed a slow, progressive reduction in the degree of consciousness surrounding nocturnal pees.  After some loss of bladder elasticity triggered something resembling nocturia, the degree of wakefulness surrounding these events began to slowly recede.  I began to forget some of them, fall back asleep whilst still peeing and then they started to appear in my dreams instead of wakefulness.  Then they sometimes didn’t appear in memory at all.

I think I’ve mentioned before the sign-posted path towards this kind of bedwetting: the dreams, the confusion and eventually an "aha!" moment.

Paradoxically, if I over-hydrate before bed, it seems that my bladder may well wake me up instead of void automatically.  Having a LOT of pee being manufactured, counterintuitively, seems to hinder unconscious wetting (as does things such as nocturnal tumescence, or a “kinked hose”, both of which seem to create pee urges by inhibiting voiding).

I absolutely agree that needing to feel "safe" about urinating in bed is a prerequisite towards that reduction in consciousness that creates this behavior.

I do believe that my long habit of 24/7 (with the associated shift towards high frequency/low volume voiding) also underpins this by providing a plethora of "teachable moments" every night.    Even on nights that I do NOT wet the bed, I will void 3 - 5 times.

I suspect it's not any reduction in vasopressin that causes the pee fairies to visit whilst I sleep, it's my high degree of comfort and habituation towards wetting myself along with a bladder that by now is patterned to "go" every hour or two at worst.

[Enthusi]

3 hours ago, oznl said:

I suspect it's not any reduction in vasopressin that causes the pee fairies to visit whilst I sleep, it's my high degree of comfort and habituation towards wetting myself along with a bladder that by now is patterned to "go" every hour or two at worst.

All very good points. And come to think of it, I’m not 100% sure the body can be reprogrammed to alter its ADH release cadence without a medical intervention. I assumed it was the case because I am a heavy night wetter, sometimes peeing  multiple times a night.  But it could just be an underperforming bladder and sphincter causing that.   I’m tagging @Kaliborio. If anyone knows it’s them. 

I would still love to have a sub-section dedicated to cognitive and behavior techniques to induce nighttime accidents. In which case I would mention ADH as a barrier to nocturnal enuresis, but omit the stuff on circumventing the release. 

[puppygirl23]

@Enthusi I'd be happy to help proofread as well! I've been super interested in training myself for a long time and have read much of the content in the Incontent-Desires forum from the past few years. Let me know if there's anyway I can help with editing, writing, formatting, etc. I read and write long-form content for my job on a daily basis. 

[Craig]

You’re getting a lot of offers for help there friend! Isn’t this community nice. It’s kind of an unusual project for a bunch of people to work on, but so what? No harm and a heck of a lot of fun. Awesome to have a bunch of people try it out and compare notes. I volunteer since I’m part way along anyway. Would this push me over the finish line? I’d like to know. Help is offered to you.

[Craig]

Just another thought….

You don’t have to be perfect with your writing with this. I don’t think you are planning to enter it into a writing competition.

After all, my guess is that your audience for this is more interested in quality results rather than your producing a Hemingway.

I get it. You want to be proud of your work. As someone who does write daily articles for a client for some part-time extra income, I know you can stew over a piece to the point that you drive yourself nuts. I’ve been there and still wind up there sometimes.

We’re interested in how the cake tastes, not what the box looks like. You’ve got some fine help offered here. Where it might be most valuable is in clarifying points that make perfect sense to you, but might be confusing to others. And incorporating those changes into your draft. That’ll make the cake taste even better.

Sincerest thanks for your hard work to help people enjoy their lives even more — in a unique kind of way.

[DiaperboyEddie12]

@Enthusi if it is just a PDF @DailyDi can upload to the forum like he did the original 12 month program.