Trans gender questions?

[AbabeBill]

Hi people, 

 There’s something I’ve been seeing for sometime, and I am curious about it. 
The number of transgender people? I see quite a bit of male to female. I’m curious about, why it seems to be more male to female? Anyone have any ideas on this? 
Is it just happenstance, you see more MtF, because they are more willing to say, or talk about it in forums like this one?  
Do FtM, have a tendency, or are less likely to want to openly mention anything? 
Are there actually more males going to female, than there are FtM’s? 
I’m not really trying to pin down exact numbers, we’re not clinical here anyway. Just wondering, what the feeling is to others? I almost wonder why, it seems like more MtF? 
 

[Elfy]

I believe there are generally more MtF than FtM though I can't be certain on the reasons for it.

[BabyJune]

For one thing, being a guy sucks. We are automatically not trusted because we're guys. People think all we concentrate on is thinking about sex so they "warn" women about us. Plus our clothes are really boring.

[Little Sherri]

This is interesting. In terms of trans adults I've known personally, which consists of two - a professor at university, and the husband-to-wife of one of my wife's acquaintances from the kids' dance school - both were MtF. And most of the people I've met here who identify as trans, are MtF, which supports @AbabeBill's observation. However, a couple of the kids my daughters know are sort of living FtM- I don't know if you could call them "trans", or if it's too early, and I don't know how they would want to be addressed, if they consider themselves "trans" or not, etc. But both of them, one a kid in middle school, and one who just graduated high school, were raised as girls, but now dress in a boy's cloths (such as wearing a suit to prom), have "masculine" haircuts, and have dated, or expressed a preference, for girls. However, it's a very sensitive topic, particularly when it comes to young people, and you have to let them tell you how they want to identify, at least in my opinion, rather than applying arbitrary labels such as "She's a lesbian" or "She's transgendered" or whatever. And they might know yet who they want to be. But maybe more people will be comfortable identifying as trans FtM in the future. 

[Lyra]

The numbers of trans femme, trans masc and nonbinary folks are relatively even in the UK at least. Trans Femme are the most visible both historically and in this community, I can only think of one movie with a trans masc character but I'm pretty out of date on these things. The explanation for why trans femmes are most visible in the media is a long and upsetting one so I won't go into it here.

My theory for trans femmes being most visible in the kink world is because that was the only way to get validated as a woman for the longest time was through the internet because it was simply something you couldn't discuss. In fact until the early 2000s the only way you could get bottom surgery in the UK was to totally cut off your family and friends, move away and basically hide your identity, we were actively told to hide being trans. Also obviously the discrimination trans femmes face often forces us in to subsistence sex work so there's this weird space of trans femmes only being allowed as fetish material, which is still very much true to this day, third most popular search on pornhub in the US.

So yeah in summation, trans femmes (of my and previous generations) have always been pushed to the online and kink worlds because that's the only real path of acceptance, that is very much changing now though thank g-d.

[AbabeBill]

18 hours ago, Lyra said:

The numbers of trans femme, trans masc and nonbinary folks are relatively even in the UK at least. Trans Femme are the most visible both historically and in this community, I can only think of one movie with a trans masc character but I'm pretty out of date on these things. The explanation for why trans femmes are most visible in the media is a long and upsetting one so I won't go into it here.

My theory for trans femmes being most visible in the kink world is because that was the only way to get validated as a woman for the longest time was through the internet because it was simply something you couldn't discuss. In fact until the early 2000s the only way you could get bottom surgery in the UK was to totally cut off your family and friends, move away and basically hide your identity, we were actively told to hide being trans. Also obviously the discrimination trans femmes face often forces us in to subsistence sex work so there's this weird space of trans femmes only being allowed as fetish material, which is still very much true to this day, third most popular search on pornhub in the US.

So yeah in summation, trans femmes (of my and previous generations) have always been pushed to the online and kink worlds because that's the only real path of acceptance, that is very much changing now though thank g-d.

Seeking online validation seems to make sense, in explaining some of it. The internet lends itself well, to a wide range of a feelings of acceptance for many things, like diaper lovers for another example. It very confusing, to say the least. 

[~Brian~]

@Lyra

I agree with this assessment. There are a lot of things that I have learned over the last 20 or 30 years, but I am still learning about those that are transgender or non-binary or non-conforming. It’ll all depend on things that you understand about the person that you are talking about. Some of them for example identify as “her” or “it“ or other descriptive general neutral pronouns, and that will depend on the person whom you are speaking directly to. This can be confusing but I am learning. I have a lot left to learn about this, and I am very open minded so that I can understand what is going on. I have a few friends who are transgender and they are awesome people.

I am glad to see that people are more excepting of transgender individuals. It is bad enough that people’s perceptions were so “outdated” that they don’t understand what is going on or why somebody would want to go from one to another sex, or gender identity.  The problem is back then, if you told somebody that you were “gay“ or “lesbian“ or any of that, you could get thought of as somebody who needed “help“, and they would probably send you away, because of that feeling. The same could be said of people who are fetishists, or that like diapers, because back in those days people would probably think that you were in need of psychological help. The times have changed however, because there are people that are more excepting of gays lesbians transgender individuals, AB DLs, or any other gender identification. I think the Internet can be helpful in this regard, but you still have to be careful as to what information that you are reading, less you end up getting the wrong information and getting the wrong idea about certain individuals or certain identities. I try to be extra careful so that I do not make the mistake of referring to someone in the wrong gender or using the wrong identification pronouns, But I still may make a mistake, and I’m glad that if I do someone educates me so I am better educated so I don’t make those type of silly mistakes.

to me there’s nothing wrong with being gay lesbian transgender or any other identification. If you feel the way you feel, act the way you act, or do what you do, there is a reason for it, and even if people may not understand it or accept it, It has been there and will be there for a long time. There are people around who decide to go from male to female, some of them go from female to male, but there are people that make those types of decisions for example: Chastity Bono, is now Chaz Bono, he made that decision based on what he believed was right for him. I am in support of anyone who is transgendered or any other identification. I do not believe that it is wrong to feel the way you feel or think that you are female, when you are anatomically a male for example, and if someone feels that way, that is the way it happens. There are far too many people who think or have thought that this is the wrong way to deal with This, but if this is what someone really wants, I am in full support of this decision. If someone actually believes if they were born male and they feel female, then they must go through exactly the same types of things to make sure they still have the same feelings, but they should have the right to decide whether they believe they are one way or another.

i’m not going to get into politics here because that is not the point of this posting. The point is that I am in support of anyone who is transgender, and I have always been that way. As I continue to be a member here, I learn more every day by reading information from this membership, so that I understand what I am dealing with. I am glad that there are people who are there to be able to educate me if and when I make mistakes or I am wrong.

Brian

[Rachael-Little]

As one who is trans non binary mostly on the fem side I really don’t have an answer.

I may be that women can blend easier to the male side and it’s seen as just a fashion thing but they may just be more masculine 

But I’m not sure there really is anything definitive 

I mean I’m still trying to figure out why I am Trans so there is that 

[FretaBWet]

Being MTF myself and being married to an FTM, I'm a widow since 2005, I may be able to shed some light on this. Like many things this is complicated and thus there is no one easy answer someone can point to. One reason which is less important now than in the past is FTM's are generally MUCH more passable than MTF's. My late husband went to all my trans meetings and I to his. Once on hormones it doesn't matter if an FTM is 20 or 40. Their voice will drop to a masculine timbre, secondary hair ie beard, armpits and chest hair will come in and depending on body type they will pass as a man. Many of them do not feel the need to ever tell anyone except a significant other. Many older MTF's like myself will never pass 100% of the time so we tend to be noticed. There may be more MTF's but it will look like a larger imbalance because many FTM's are invisible in many cases. It's getting so much better because they are allowing pre puberty use of hormone blockers so young MTF's have a chance of being passable in voice, hair and body shape.

Another factor is if there is gender confusion or someone is very androgenous most people will default to the masculine rather than the feminine. Most men if they are mistakenly call ma'am would be upset at being emasculated and may even cause a scene to defend their manhood  most women that might mistakenly be addressed sir would tend to politely correct the person or maybe let it pass without comment.  Because of this most people faced with someone on the fence or androgenous would tend to default to sir.

My partner was just asked by a co-worker if I was transgender 2 days ago. She told her I was without needing to ask me. She is well aware of my personal policy on the issue. If I'm asked because someone is unsure or curious I tell them the truth. If someone asks me because they already made up their mind and want me to know that they know or to make me uncomfortable they won't get an answer, they'll get a question back. Something like why does it matter to you? Are you scared or uncomfortable if I was transgender? I don't think I'm the average in this regard.

Hugs,

Freta

[AbabeBill]

I’m glad we have this forum, because we can talk, and ask these questions. What makes me uncomfortable is, being afraid of making someone uncomfortable, by asking questions. It is a very difficult subject, and to ask people how they feel, sometimes can be risky. As you say @FretaBWet, you can ask a question, and possibly be misunderstood about why, you are asking such a question. I just want to learn, and understand. But, I don’t want anyone uncomfortable. It can be hard to know, why someone might ask a trans question, especially outside, or on the street. 
I think, I would have to get to know someone really well socially face to face, before I asked any such questions of them. Both people would have to know, where the other was coming from, before such questions could be asked. Or, you will invoke, “why do you ask” response. Be like asking someone you don’t know very well, what religion are you? 

[~Brian~]

13 minutes ago, AbabeBill said:

I’m glad we have this forum, because we can talk, and ask these questions. What makes me uncomfortable is, being afraid of making someone uncomfortable, by asking questions. It is a very difficult subject, and to ask people how they feel, sometimes can be risky. As you say @FretaBWet, you can ask a question, and possibly be misunderstood about why, you are asking such a question. I just want to learn, and understand. But, I don’t want anyone uncomfortable. It can be hard to know, why someone might ask a trans question, especially outside, or on the street. 
I think, I would have to get to know someone really well socially face to face, before I asked any such questions of them. Both people would have to know, where the other was coming from, before such questions could be asked. Or, you will invoke, “why do you ask” response. Be like asking someone you don’t know very well, what religion are you? 

@FretaBWet

I also share @AbabeBills sentiments and concerns. One time I made the mistake year of thinking something was true when it was not, or making a statement about being transgender, and I was corrected because I was stating something incorrectly. Like bill, I want to be able to understand what is going on,  so I can be educated, so that I don’t refer to someone in the wrong gender, use the wrong pronouns, or make a fool out of myself. I would rather learn the right way to do something rather than to continually do the wrong things. If I make a mistake like that, it is not meant to be disrespectful, but it always helps to know the right way to handle situations. Like I said, some people go by “he“ son by “she“ and  some by “it”.  In order for me to be able to address a person in the right way, I may have to ask someone the proper pronouns to use. I’ve even had a transgendered individuals who is one of my customers actually tell me to address her as she because she was a M to F.  I also made sure that I addressed her by the name she wished to be called. Sometimes you have to ask questions like this, so that you know the way that you are supposed to address individuals. If you ask someone, you are less likely to make silly mistakes or protocol mistakes, and therefore less likely to be confused. The person you’re talking to knows what’s going on, but you might not. So the best thing to do is to always ask: at least that way you know the answer, and hopefully remember it for future reference.

as I said, whenever I post and I talk about transgender issues, it is not my intention to be disrespectful to anyone. All I want to do is be able to learn the right way to address someone, or understand what is going on, so that I don’t make silly mistakes.

Brian

Edited December 11, 2021 by ~Brian~
Added a word, removed errant comma in post

[Rachael-Little]

16 hours ago, FretaBWet said:

Being MTF myself and being married to an FTM, I'm a widow since 2005, I may be able to shed some light on this. Like many things this is complicated and thus there is no one easy answer someone can point to. One reason which is less important now than in the past is FTM's are generally MUCH more passable than MTF's. My late husband went to all my trans meetings and I to his. Once on hormones it doesn't matter if an FTM is 20 or 40. Their voice will drop to a masculine timbre, secondary hair ie beard, armpits and chest hair will come in and depending on body type they will pass as a man. Many of them do not feel the need to ever tell anyone except a significant other. Many older MTF's like myself will never pass 100% of the time so we tend to be noticed. There may be more MTF's but it will look like a larger imbalance because many FTM's are invisible in many cases. It's getting so much better because they are allowing pre puberty use of hormone blockers so young MTF's have a chance of being passable in voice, hair and body shape.

Another factor is if there is gender confusion or someone is very androgenous most people will default to the masculine rather than the feminine. Most men if they are mistakenly call ma'am would be upset at being emasculated and may even cause a scene to defend their manhood  most women that might mistakenly be addressed sir would tend to politely correct the person or maybe let it pass without comment.  Because of this most people faced with someone on the fence or androgenous would tend to default to sir.

My partner was just asked by a co-worker if I was transgender 2 days ago. She told her I was without needing to ask me. She is well aware of my personal policy on the issue. If I'm asked because someone is unsure or curious I tell them the truth. If someone asks me because they already made up their mind and want me to know that they know or to make me uncomfortable they won't get an answer, they'll get a question back. Something like why does it matter to you? Are you scared or uncomfortable if I was transgender? I don't think I'm the average in this regard.

Hugs,

Freta

Really great insight thanks for sharing 

[Snugglebear_69]

I certainly can't speak for anyone else but I'll offer a different but related perspective.

As someone who is genderfluid, a man and a woman, and biologically male i can assure you there are a lot of people, sometimes including myself, that are unsure what pronouns or name to use.

My first name on a day to day basis, sadly the legal battle continues, is Kirk/Kaiya (read With the slash as "or"). In general I encourage people to ask questions  it if someone says they just can't answer in that moment or in that day then please believe them and respect that answer.

[Rachael-Little]

6 hours ago, Snugglebear_69 said:

I certainly can't speak for anyone else but I'll offer a different but related perspective.

As someone who is genderfluid, a man and a woman, and biologically male i can assure you there are a lot of people, sometimes including myself, that are unsure what pronouns or name to use.

My first name on a day to day basis, sadly the legal battle continues, is Kirk/Kaiya (read With the slash as "or"). In general I encourage people to ask questions  it if someone says they just can't answer in that moment or in that day then please believe them and respect that answer.

Yes much like me, when it comes to my gender presentation I’m an open book and don’t mind the questions 

I present many times at work very fluid and it’s just me 

[BabyAshtonMarie81]

I'm transgender I will say M2F. I was actually born intersex.  Meaning that my inner physical gender sex was different from what the outer body presented.  I have a female pelvic, female torso, female femur even through it's length of male but my Q angle is female and with dna chromosome scanning I found out at early age I was xxy. My so called testicles never dropped because they was actually underdeveloped ovaries.  My penis is I guess adolescent to preteen sized. But my body developed higher then normal female testosterone levels but lower then avg male testosterone levels so for most of my life I was androgynous looking could pass as female or male depending on how I dressed and talked.  Thru my 20's I was very sexually driven both with men and women  but don't confuse sexuality with gender. Sexually I'm bisexual.  But in my early 30's I became very suicidal and developed a strong Body dysmorphic disorder. And that's when I started seeing a gender therapist because I thought, I was crazy and confused about what I was or am. Every test i took. I learned that I was more female than male. And that is when I start Hormone Replacement Therapy.  And since then my mind has been clear and my suicide thoughts are a lot less.  But i still have body dysmorphic disorder  I feel as if my breast was larger that I would be more female.  My dysmorphia isn't triggered by the fact I have a penis.  Actually I'm ok with that.   Am disgusted by the scar i see for when I was a preteen they removed my underdeveloped ovaries  because Dr's then used to choose the childs outcome of gender.  Thankfully today dr's cant do that it's left up to the individual when they age to decide whether if they are male or female. 

[Rachael-Little]

3 hours ago, BabyAshtonMarie81 said:

I'm transgender I will say M2F. I was actually born intersex.  Meaning that my inner physical gender sex was different from what the outer body presented.  I have a female pelvic, female torso, female femur even through it's length of male but my Q angle is female and with dna chromosome scanning I found out at early age I was xxy. My so called testicles never dropped because they was actually underdeveloped ovaries.  My penis is I guess adolescent to preteen sized. But my body developed higher then normal female testosterone levels but lower then avg male testosterone levels so for most of my life I was androgynous looking could pass as female or male depending on how I dressed and talked.  Thru my 20's I was very sexually driven both with men and women  but don't confuse sexuality with gender. Sexually I'm bisexual.  But in my early 30's I became very suicidal and developed a strong Body dysmorphic disorder. And that's when I started seeing a gender therapist because I thought, I was crazy and confused about what I was or am. Every test i took. I learned that I was more female than male. And that is when I start Hormone Replacement Therapy.  And since then my mind has been clear and my suicide thoughts are a lot less.  But i still have body dysmorphic disorder  I feel as if my breast was larger that I would be more female.  My dysmorphia isn't triggered by the fact I have a penis.  Actually I'm ok with that.   Am disgusted by the scar i see for when I was a preteen they removed my underdeveloped ovaries  because Dr's then used to choose the childs outcome of gender.  Thankfully today dr's cant do that it's left up to the individual when they age to decide whether if they are male or female. 

Thank you for sharing something so personal, I know those like yourself struggle so much and my heart goes out to you.

Being so different than others but having few answers as to why can be a lifelong struggle 

God bless you and may you find hope and happiness 

[PuraVidaDip]

On 1/29/2022 at 7:45 AM, BabyAshtonMarie81 said:

I'm transgender I will say M2F. I was actually born intersex.  Meaning that my inner physical gender sex was different from what the outer body presented.  I have a female pelvic, female torso, female femur even through it's length of male but my Q angle is female and with dna chromosome scanning I found out at early age I was xxy. My so called testicles never dropped because they was actually underdeveloped ovaries.  My penis is I guess adolescent to preteen sized. But my body developed higher then normal female testosterone levels but lower then avg male testosterone levels so for most of my life I was androgynous looking could pass as female or male depending on how I dressed and talked.  Thru my 20's I was very sexually driven both with men and women  but don't confuse sexuality with gender. Sexually I'm bisexual.  But in my early 30's I became very suicidal and developed a strong Body dysmorphic disorder. And that's when I started seeing a gender therapist because I thought, I was crazy and confused about what I was or am. Every test i took. I learned that I was more female than male. And that is when I start Hormone Replacement Therapy.  And since then my mind has been clear and my suicide thoughts are a lot less.  But i still have body dysmorphic disorder  I feel as if my breast was larger that I would be more female.  My dysmorphia isn't triggered by the fact I have a penis.  Actually I'm ok with that.   Am disgusted by the scar i see for when I was a preteen they removed my underdeveloped ovaries  because Dr's then used to choose the childs outcome of gender.  Thankfully today dr's cant do that it's left up to the individual when they age to decide whether if they are male or female. 

@BabyAshtonMarie81 Damn that's insane the doctor's used to be able to do that. Intersex folks have a high degree of respect in my book. Thank you for sharing your story. Hopefully we can all learn and be more accepting.

Tangential question - Why does there seem to be such a high correlation between active users of this site and transgendered people? What is the ABDL/ trans correlation, or is it just active users here? Any thoughts? I am accepting of all  people, and just find this curious and seek some insight as I identify as male and have been so since birth. Some folks have seen to gone to M2F after going 24/7. Curious about this as well. Any thoughts and/or criticisms are appreciated.

[Snugglebear_69]

There really isn't a correlation between the two. What you're probably seeing is related more to sample size bias, confirmation bias and the degree to which you interact with the community. If you were to significantly interact with other communities you'd probably see a similar correlation, e.g. the furry community

The other factor is often in kink related spaces there is a degree of psychological safety that encourages people to be more open. You might not feel a need to share your gender identity with a golfing or curling league but in a more emotional and for some sexyal space like ABDL it makes more sense.

[Lil Miss Potty Pants]

My pet theory is that society is much more constrictive with male gender roles than with female.  Very few people bat an eye if a girl wants to wear pants or watch football on TV.  But when a boy wants to wear a dress or have painted nails or play with dolls, everyone loses their minds.  I think you see less people declaring a FtM identity simply because AFAB people can live a pretty masculine existence if they want.  Men are pushed into a much more defined role and as such need to break out much more dramatically to live a feminine existence.

[dlsafrica]

For the record, how is the word transgender being interpreted? The topic was pretty big in the news a while back, and has now reached into the area of violating privacy of athletes.

In the media, transsexual as became typified as transgender, and this is of course wrong.

I had these issues (used conservatively; there's nothing wrong with it) around 2013 specifically.  My then church came down on me because they didn't understand it. The one guy looked scared and said "what's that?" My mom threatened to take me to a psychologist when I told her I'm a girl.

It kind of all faded until now... the same kind of things are happening. I didn't identify it for what it was, but my best friend did... bless her soul. Right now I am facing conflict reconciling these thoughts (which are slightly different than 8 years ago) with religious beliefs.

[Little Cub Pants]

1 hour ago, dlsafrica said:

For the record, how is the word transgender being interpreted? The topic was pretty big in the news a while back, and has now reached into the area of violating privacy of athletes.

In the media, transsexual as became typified as transgender, and this is of course wrong.

I had these issues (used conservatively; there's nothing wrong with it) around 2013 specifically.  My then church came down on me because they didn't understand it. The one guy looked scared and said "what's that?" My mom threatened to take me to a psychologist when I told her I'm a girl.

Does that mean you're a girl???? I'm kinda confused.?

[Lil Miss Potty Pants]

On 2/24/2022 at 11:14 PM, dlsafrica said:

For the record, how is the word transgender being interpreted? The topic was pretty big in the news a while back, and has now reached into the area of violating privacy of athletes.

In the media, transsexual as became typified as transgender, and this is of course wrong.

Language has changed but to reduce toward a more accurate mean, and occasionally, to escape words which have been co-opted in negative ways.

Transsexual used to be used to mean any kind of person with gender dysphoria, then later to refer to someone who had undergone sexual reassignment surgery.  It's fallen out of favor for both the above reasons.  One, gender and sex aren't unrelated items but they're still distinct.  Gender identity is not sexual identity and so today our language tends to use "gender" rather than "sexual" verbiage.  Second, "transsexual" for a long time was co-opted and often used as a word of oppression, so trans people (and the people who care for them) generally stopped using it.

[PlstkBakdnghtnday]

On 2/14/2022 at 7:22 PM, Wet Emily said:

My pet theory is that society is much more constrictive with male gender roles than with female.  Very few people bat an eye if a girl wants to wear pants or watch football on TV.  But when a boy wants to wear a dress or have painted nails or play with dolls, everyone loses their minds.  I think you see less people declaring a FtM identity simply because AFAB people can live a pretty masculine existence if they want.  Men are pushed into a much more defined role and as such need to break out much more dramatically to live a feminine existence.

You haven't met my fiance.