Blackmail realism

[Elbs]

Since there's already another topic about unrealistic tropes in ABDL...

What's your thoughts on the trope of blackmailing the infantilized person to keep them from leaving/resisting the babying? I feel like to me, that would have very limited effectiveness. If the character doesn't want to be infantilized, sooner or later they're going to decide public humiliation is better than this. And it's often uncertain how humiliating it'd even be - eg if you were kidnapped and forced into diapers and babyish clothes, that's unlikely to make anyone who knows the context of the pictures judge you negatively, so your best bet would be to just go public with your version of the events. Plus, if the character is spending 24/7 in babyish clothes and being babied, you'd think that would matter more than whether people they'll likely never see again know they're being babied.

[ValentinesStuff]

I've never really been a fan, almost all the time the reasons behind the blackmail are not believable. This goes for most illegal activities to get a "victim." 

 

I'm reading one story, TG not ABDL, and I've lost track of the criminal and civil complaint the victim could have filed. From rape, theft, identity theft, to sexual harassment by everyone where he works. And everyone going along with it.

[Personalias]

Good writing isn't always about "realism" as much as it's about "suspension of disbelief".

You'd need the character being blackmailed to be absolutely terrified that wearing diapers and being treated like a baby is preferable to whatever they don't want to be found out.  Perhaps they think they'll go to jail.  Perhaps they think they'll lose their job.  Maybe they'll be disowned from their family.  For suspension of disbelief, "aha! I found your porn stash and it's abdl, so now I'm going to abdl humiliate you!" doesn't work in most instances.  Being forcibly babied has to seem like the lesser of two evils.  "Let me treat you like a baby or I'll show people all these pics of you treating me like a baby."

Secondly, it's a good idea to start slow with the babying.  Use the sunk cost fallacy to make infantilization a bit like turning the heat of a boiling pot up by degrees so the frog doesn't realize it before he's boiled.  Start with "put this diaper on in private", then "wet it".  Then "Let me change you."  etc. etc. etc. in tiny increments until you've got them wearing a onesie, and playing in an adult nursery and wondering "how the fuck did it get this far?"  Because yes, most reasonable people if they were given "the whole package" would freak out and say fuck it they'd rather go to jail.  However disbelief can be suspended if they're constantly telling themselves "it's just one thing."

"At least I didn't have to pay for this diaper."  "Okay, I'm paying for diapers now, but anybody else would be extorting me for money anyways.  At least I can choose which diapers I buy."  "Okay, all my diapers have to be babyish now, but at least I can wear my regular clothes over them....oh wow, when did I start calling them MY diapers?" 

Thirdly what is the motivation of the blackmailer?   "I'm looking for a random person to baby and dominate!" doesn't make much sense.  Most people aren't like that.  Part of forced ABDL is a kind of power exchange, which is very personal, so the relationship of blackmailer to the blackmail victim should also be personal.    Is this a slighted ex or spouse who wants more control over their spouse after finding a terrible secret and thinking this new dynamic will improve their relationship?  An employer or manager who thinks they've found the perfect way to keep their subordinate in line (after finding the subordinate was trying to ruin the company by leaking important documents?)  Or perhaps flip the switch and the powerless has discovered their superior has been embezzling massive amounts of money from the company?

Regardless, to help suspend disbelief as to why someone would want to put in all the time and attention of forcibly babying an unwilling partner, having a previously established relationship to play off of and contrast with is a lot better than "Violating consent with diapers is just totally my thing!"

Just my thoughts.

[Elfy]

Funnily enough I have a story involving blackmail of arguably the most important person (fictional) on the planet in the works.

Blackmail can work if the stakes are big enough. I think it's important to remember that the people reading your story WANT to enjoy it and that means if they can suspend their disbelief they will. I find blackmail a good starting point quite often before other things make it harder to go back.

[BoTox]

7 hours ago, Elbs said:

Since there's already another topic about unrealistic tropes in ABDL...

What's your thoughts on the trope of blackmailing the infantilized person to keep them from leaving/resisting the babying? I feel like to me, that would have very limited effectiveness. If the character doesn't want to be infantilized, sooner or later they're going to decide public humiliation is better than this. And it's often uncertain how humiliating it'd even be - eg if you were kidnapped and forced into diapers and babyish clothes, that's unlikely to make anyone who knows the context of the pictures judge you negatively, so your best bet would be to just go public with your version of the events. Plus, if the character is spending 24/7 in babyish clothes and being babied, you'd think that would matter more than whether people they'll likely never see again know they're being babied.

While I understand your concerns, blackmail is about preying on the fears of the blackmailed. People have committed murders to keep from having minor details of their private lives exposed.

While I won't say anything is possible, truth can be stranger than fiction.

[Cute_Kitten]

I think a lot of it would depend upon the execution (i.e., the writing itself).  The characters and their motivations would be pivotal. It doesn't have to be anything world-shattering, just what makes sense for X character in Y context/ circumstances. The stakes just have to be high enough/ personal enough for the victim to be threatened or tricked into complying. You can always throw in a nice dose of psychological mind-fuckery- gaslighting, etc to sweeten the pot. Maybe the consequences of whatever getting out would not be that bad to a rational person, but if the victim is vulnerable somehow, or their rationality/ confidence/ beliefs etc can be rocked- maybe the blackmailer makes the consequences seem much worse than they actually are, etc.  It's all in the writing and suspension of disbelief. Readers want to read this- they want to suspend their disbelief and get lost in the world of the story, root for the good guys, boo the bad guys, etc.  It's up to the writer to keep that illusion up and not jar the reader out of it.   

There's also different types of blackmail beyond the "I've got X pictures and I'll release to everyone if you don't to Y."  It could be desperation- victim needs something, blackmailer has it (whether that thing is emotional, financial, material, immaterial.)  Like, "wanna keep this job? You'll wear a diaper."  "You're ugly/ fat/ stupid/ etc. No one would love you. Without me, you'd be alone. Now, if you want me to stay in a relationship with you- and I really put up with a lot of your crap, you know. you could at least do this one little thing for me. I don't ask for much; just put this diaper on..."   "I've got the market on meth cornered in this one horse town. I'm the only dealer. You wana hit? but you have no money. How bad you craving it, baby? I'll give you some...I'm a nice person. You just gotta do one itty bitty thing for me...."   "Don't want me to show super rich wifey poo this video of you cheating on her? Y'know, you signed a prenup. Divorce and you get bupkiss, bud. It's back to skid row for you. Unless, of course, you listen to me...."   "Gee, such a shame if all this evidence landed on the District Attorney's desk. You'd be arrested so fast your head will spin. Oh, you're acutally innocent?  Wanna take a chance and prove it in court? I could make all these nasty charges go away...I just need something from you, too..."'

It's a power exchange- blackmailer having power over the victim, and for all kinds of different reasons and scenarios. 

[ValentinesStuff]

6 hours ago, Personalias said:

(after finding the subordinate was trying to ruin the company by leaking important documents?)

Leaking important documents or leaking ON important documents? ?

[Cute_Kitten]

18 hours ago, ValentinesStuff said:

Leaking important documents or leaking ON important documents? ?

Now that's a fun scenario!  Powerful lady lawyer (maybe in her late 20's or early 30's) and a just-graduated-from college, brand new, first career job male secretary. He's very shy and intimidated but also admires his scary boss-lady (and she of course likes him). Late nights at the office- maybe he's incontinent and already wears diapers, or he just wears because he likes them-  and perhaps he isn't wearing the proper amount of padding so he has leaks...things get hot and heavy one night between them. She has him pinned down on her desk, on top of important documents....he leaks.......she changes him. And now of course he has to wear super thick diapers that are also super noisy...

[eatenbywo1ves]

While not exactly blackmail in the truest sense of its meaning, legally binding agreements between a character and say their employer globalized aligned interest. Turns out the NDA required prior to working there had some rather dubiously worded contractual violation clauses. Working in various actual blackmailing should be possible in stride with what someone is trying to do. Thankfully there is an ability to opt-in for cutting edge medical trials that might advance the medical arts beyond our imagination, volunteers are paid handsomely yet despite this participation makes any measurable data non-existent, its a miracle if they can get two people at the same time participating. The value you add by opting in is incalculable and nullifies what would be a career path ending blacklisting at the very least.

 

Boom CRISPR gene editing study or EMF study mapping/identifying electrical signals in the brain....

Add evil dr character or whatever to get the ABDL blackmail in when that trial results in that unexpected result?

 

[AbyMatt]

It's kind of evil but really the most effective blackmail is to say that if you won't do whatever thing the blackmailer wants there will be consequences for others that you care about.

[Flaresnare]

For me at times, I certainly  feel it's not the most realistic ways of how to get person to wear diapers. like  I'm not saying I hate it,  but, it really all narrows down to,  just how believable the situation is or how it's handled or just what sort of tone or style the story is going for, so in some sense, it can work or at least make a little sense  for me, but let me explain my thoughts on the most basic version I see, which would be,  Person A blackmails person B with some evidence of them that could humiliate them ( like embarrassing pictures or content.) which to me is the weakest form. . like I agree very much with what you say about the person deciding some public humiliation is better then being pushed around by the blackmailer.( I'd not give them the satisfaction of tormenting me if I was in the place ) plus, blackmail is illegal and something that can get on in serious trouble, if one doesn't want to be forced to do things ( in this case wear diapers ) the said person could report them for the blackmail, if they try to use the evidence they have on you. they could land in some serious hot water themselves which they then would have to argue would it be worth it? 

In a sense, one could use the blackmail evidence as blackmail itself to keep them from exposing you with the threat of them getting into some serious legal trouble. either way, if they release the evidence, they'll suffer some serious legal issues that would most likely land them in jail. 
Also another big thing I never got about some blackmail scenarios, is when the tormentor makes the Victim do publicly embarrassing things, like taking them into public wearing diapers and dressed like a baby, showing them off to everyone who knows them, yet, after that.  they still continue to listen to what they blackmailer says ? but like why ? if you now have been publicly embarrassed, why does it matter your tormentor threatens to show off pictures of you ? 
Either way, when blackmail is used like that I think it's a major issue, but really, I think it does go about how one handles it, like blackmail can also come in all different forms then just the way I mentioned it. ( but even , I still tend to think there are other ways one can avoid or get themselves out of the situations,)  but, really, I suppose it all goes down to just how it's handled and how much you are willing to accept ? 

 

[Cute_Kitten]

On 4/24/2021 at 2:46 PM, Flaresnare said:

Also another big thing I never got about some blackmail scenarios, is when the tormentor makes the Victim do publicly embarrassing things, like taking them into public wearing diapers and dressed like a baby, showing them off to everyone who knows them, yet, after that.  they still continue to listen to what they blackmailer says ? but like why ? if you now have been publicly embarrassed, why does it matter your tormentor threatens to show off pictures of you ? 
Either way, when blackmail is used like that I think it's a major issue, but really, I think it does go about how one handles it, like blackmail can also come in all different forms then just the way I mentioned it. ( but even , I still tend to think there are other ways one can avoid or get themselves out of the situations,)  but, really, I suppose it all goes down to just how it's handled and how much you are willing to accept ? 

 

This is why the stakes/ the threat of the blackmail is so important and crucial to the story. The victim would put up with all the public humiliation, etc because whatever the blackmailer is hanging over their head is so, so, soooo much worse than going through something so degrading. 

[ABAlex]

On 3/6/2021 at 5:15 AM, Elbs said:

Since there's already another topic about unrealistic tropes in ABDL...

What's your thoughts on the trope of blackmailing the infantilized person to keep them from leaving/resisting the babying? I feel like to me, that would have very limited effectiveness. If the character doesn't want to be infantilized, sooner or later they're going to decide public humiliation is better than this. And it's often uncertain how humiliating it'd even be - eg if you were kidnapped and forced into diapers and babyish clothes, that's unlikely to make anyone who knows the context of the pictures judge you negatively, so your best bet would be to just go public with your version of the events. Plus, if the character is spending 24/7 in babyish clothes and being babied, you'd think that would matter more than whether people they'll likely never see again know they're being babied.

As someone who is currently writing a story along those lines. For example, the victim agreeing to wear and use diapers 24/7 is more realistic then agreeing to be fully babied. However, depending on the personality, either might work. Someone who is established to care a lot about their public image may be more willing to give in to things then someone who doesn't care at all.

After that, you might have a frog in boiling water effect. While I'd say its unlikely most people would immediately agree to be babied full time, someone gradually introducing limits might get a way with a lot before they just leave. I think there are enough examples of people staying in scenarios that get gradually worse for similar things. 

The sad thing is, people have agreed to worse things with similar motivations. There is a reason why things like cults or abusive relationships occur even though from the outside we question why anyone would stay. 

So, overall, the question is: are the things the victim is agreeing to do a better then the alternative in their own head? "Their own head" might be different then another persons, it has to make sense to them.

That being said... I never minded realism so much for these things. Most possible ABDL plots are silly anyway. I could go down a list- any public abdl outing or messy diapers in public might get them in trouble, most people would not be able to afford a full time abdl lifestyle, most diaper domination stories with unwilling partners are horribly abusive and probably illegal, a lot of the more caring stories involve people suddenly deciding they love abdl or accepting it, etc. IMO the idea of a full grown adult being babied is inherently silly so I'm willing to let some things pass. If you like it, I wouldn't worry too much about that question.

[Flaresnare]

On 4/26/2021 at 5:05 PM, Cute_Kitten said:

This is why the stakes/ the threat of the blackmail is so important and crucial to the story. The victim would put up with all the public humiliation, etc because whatever the blackmailer is hanging over their head is so, so, soooo much worse than going through something so degrading. 

Indeed, it really all narrows down to just what sort of blackmail is being done. which can be more complicated or serious then the simple "  I have pictures of you in diapers, now you must be my baby or else your secrets out " sort of thing, but really, I must admit, for as over the top or even convoluted blackmail scenarios can get. I'm willing to accept almost any if the story isn't one that takes itself too seriously, a bit ironic sense blackmail is a serious issue, but I find the more silly or over the top a story is, the more I'm willing to suspend disbelief  ( goes for a lot of scenarios really )  

[Ohmo]

Writing fiction is telling a story about imaginary events and people.  Even if based upon real events/people, the operative term is "based", not "about".  The writer's goal should to be to guide readers through the process by explaining the reason for the blackmail and why the target would fear the consequences of not surrendering to it.  Not a data dump, but enough information readers willingly suspend their disbelief.