My experience with stents

[Matthaydon]

I just bought two of these with introducers. One for each sphincter... nervous because of the permanency... https://www.bostonscientific.com/en-US/products/stents--vascular/Express_LD_Iliac_and_Biliary_Stent_System.html

[boyhood]

15 hours ago, Matthaydon said:

I just bought two of these with introducers. One for each sphincter... nervous because of the permanency... https://www.bostonscientific.com/en-US/products/stents--vascular/Express_LD_Iliac_and_Biliary_Stent_System.html

Hey Matthaydon, I logged on special for the first time in months just to respond to your post. Glad you are telling us about your plans before you even think about playing with this idea. I know we are all stuck at home so a time for stenting has never sounded more applicable.

But this stent is designed for arterial placement, not urethral. Even if you were able to somehow get it in place, it wouldn't work. We should draw the line in regards to methods that will undoubtedly injure ourselves. The damage caused by the metal would be permanent and most likely life-threatening. I know you likely spent a fortune to somehow obtain them and you have this vision about how it would work, but I assure you it wouldn't, nor would it fulfill any of your fantasies.

A trip to the hospital's Emergency Room is the only place where this would lead you. A full room of medical experts would be needed to remove this from you (to save your life), and it wouldn't be retrieved the way it went in: you would be cut open, and likely sent to a psychiatric hospital against your will. The recovery would be not weeks, but months and the cost for this service would be incomprehensible. Hospitals have enough going on right now. There aren't enough beds and staff are already overwhelmed.

My advice is to stay at home and stick to sterilized medical-grade platinum-cured silicone if you insist on stenting right now. Play it safe or don't play at all.

[fetishbroDO]

I'm getting to this thread a bit late. I have followed it for a while from a distance, but am only just now starting to have the nerve to want to dabble with creating my own stent. I know that there used to be a sort of "how to" for beginners, but It looks like that link is not working anymore.. 

Can anyone recommend a good starting point for a newbie? 

[boyhood]

I was just asked what size of O-Rings I use. Below are the three exact materials I use for O-Rings, PTFE Tubing, & Silicone Tubing:

O-Rings:

My O-rings are size 020 which measures:

• 1" OD / 7/8" ID / 1/16" wall
• 25.4mm OD / 22.225mm ID / 1.5875mm wall

The red-orange O-Rings I have used so far are silicone... there's a fine line for ALL of the O-Ring measurements to make it function properly. Flexibility is another metric that is different among material choice, i.e. Silicone vs. Buna (Nitrile Rubber, food applications) vs. EPDM (Ethylene Propylene) vs. FKM (Fluorocarbon, Oil)... my newest ones that I actually think have the most promise (not pictured above) are a tougher durometer (90 rating vs Silicone's 75 rating) and use a different material (Nitrile Rubber) but I think will be an upgrade next time I try to stent.

Here are those: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Buna-O-rings-020-90D-Price-for-50-pcs/202753595755

Here are also the Silicone ones: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-o-rings-Size-020-Price-for-25-pcs/202555221542

PTFE (Teflon) Tubing:

I also experimented with some new PTFE tubing sizes last December, the inner tube to anchor in O-Rings and allow the passage of urine through them. My previous PTFE tubing was too thick-walled and stiff, where that thickness could have gone toward better flow and comfort of insertion/removal. The goal is for the PTFE to have enough strength to keep the O-Rings embraced tightly, but not kinked... for that, I found a .20mm wall to be perfect.

• https://www.ebay.com/itm/Translucent-PTFE-Tubing-Pipe-3D-Printer-Tube-150V-ID-0-3-8-4mm-Various-Length/173836456664
  • 3.40mm OD / 3mm ID / .20mm wall < Easiest to insert/remove
  • 3.78mm OD / 3.38mm ID / .20mm wall < Most practical, easier to insert/remove
  • 4.16mm OD / 3.76mm ID / .20mm wall < Best flow, probably best choice

Silicone Tubing:

I also switched up my outside Silicone tubing from 6x4mm OD/ID to 6.35x3.175 mm (1/4"x1/8") OD/ID. Note that "Platinum cured" is better/clearer than "Peroxide cured" silicone and what is used in the medical industry so what I recommend... here's exactly what I use but my size appears to be out of stock (as of 5/23/20):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Tubing-Platinum-cured-SHORE-A-50-1-8-x-1-4-x-3-8-ID-OD/383163053827

If anyone tries out any of these, I'd love to hear how it works out for you!

-boyhood

[fetishbroDO]

So I've made one based off Cathdiap's design. I guess I'm having a hard time finding the right positioning that allows for both functioning of the stent, but then also no discomfort. I find that especially while sitting, I can feel some discomfort around the stent where it is sitting. Would definitely appreciate advice on how to figure out the right position, because that's been a struggle. I had one in for quite a bit last night (read: 2-3 hours) and it seemed to be going okay until I found that it was no longer functioning well, and I believe that it retracted into the bladder. I have tried familiarizing myself with the external anatomy, but this is something that I have struggled with, and the knowledge from catheters doesn't seem to just translate easily to me. I also have concerns that  the retrieval line may be pulling on it, and displacing it, but then again that may just be a psychological thing to get past. 

Which leads me to my second question. Anyone have any tips on 1)retaining a tight bend angle, and 2) preventing the either piece of teflon from twisting within the silicone tubing? I have found that mine do tend to twist some occasionally, but not all of the time. I used a heat gun to make the first curve, however I can't reliably get it to keep a curve of ~60-70 degrees. Often times it will revert back to around 45. 

 

[Fuzz]

Hi!

So having some experience with holey foleys and reading about cathdiap's stent I decided to give it a try.

Made a couple ones, I feel I'm close to a working design but they keep migrating in my bladder when I sleep.

Anyone has suggestions for improvement to stop the migration?

Should I try shorter between bends or silicone cath as a base instead?

20Ga silicone coated latex Cath with three bends:

And 20Ga silicone coated latex Cath with Two 45° bends with a hollow bead stopper.

 

[Diapered Dave]

8 hours ago, Fuzz said:

I feel I'm close to a working design but they keep migrating in my bladder when I sleep.

Are they going totally into your bladder? Any trouble getting it out? I see you have a line on it, just wondered if the edge of the stent catches on the bladder outlet as you pull it out.

[Fuzz]

On 6/5/2020 at 11:54 PM, Diapered Dave said:

Are they going totally into your bladder? Any trouble getting it out? I see you have a line on it, just wondered if the edge of the stent catches on the bladder outlet as you pull it out.

The 3 angles stent (the top one in my post) ended up totally inside the bladder. The second one I'm not sure,I think it entered just partially.

This is a risky type of play but they were usually easy to recover with the fishing line. I just pull very slowly while my bladder is full, and I'm usually either able to put it back in place or to it get it out in a splash!

Edit: Got a prototype stuck inside earlier today, had blood when i was pulling, so I went to the ER but i was finally able to recover it peeing and pulling in the restroom.  I hope i didn't hurt anything too bad down there, everything works normally for the moment. So I'm insisting on "do this at your own risk". Not sure i'll give this a go again, I'll just revert back to holey foleys.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Fuzz

[fetishbroDO]

So I have had some success with a new design. The biggest issue I have now is that I don't find it to be effective while lying down. The dimensions are 5cm-6cm-4.5cm with the 5cm portion going toward the bladder. I guess part of my problem is that I'm not sure it's truly in the bladder, vs just opening the sphincter. I do feel my bladder getting full at night, and I eventually will end up needing to sit up to empty it or stand up. I haven't actually slept through the night with it yet, partly because I haven't been able to sleep while it's in. I don't know if I can feel it or if I just think about it too much.. I may need to work up to it. It seems to be almost perfectly functional in every other position, although I do think the flow is a bit slower than I'd love. Not sure that I can fix that to be honest.

Anyone have any advice for the lying down position? 

[Old_PA]

I use a 'holey foley' from time to time. Totally comfortable and works perfectly during the day but no good in bed as I wake up with a full bladder. Maybe the hole is too small. If I use the same size catheter into a night bag there is no problem. 

[cathdiap]

@Fuzz I still use a stent with three angles. But in my search for an unmovable stent I tweaked it a little a few weeks ago. What really helped a lot was lowering the top angle so the part of the stent inside the bladder is straight. ThIs way the top angle sits just between the prostate and the inner sphincter. I found out that hooking the stent in the bladder with a high curve is not that important to prevent it from sliding out. But when there is no curve inside the bladder there is no longer a chance of pulling the stent upwards when the bladder is filling up and going up in the stomach.

I also reduced the angle of the lowest curve. This way the lower part of the stent Is pointing a little upwards and sort of hooks in the urethra around the outer sphincter. Until now it seems the stent stays put no matter what I do or how full the bladder is.

I will wear it another week before removing the retrieval line. I have to be absolutely sure the stent will never migrate inside the bladder.

I think the eye at the bottom of your stent may have been the cause of the bleeding you have recently experienced. I have experimented with those in my early years of stent use, but they always caused great discomfort. 
 

My latest stent. The ruler has a metric scale (centimeters).

[fetishbroDO]

17 hours ago, cathdiap said:

 

I also reduced the angle of the lowest curve. This way the lower part of the stent Is pointing a little upwards and sort of hooks in the urethra around the outer sphincter. Until now it seems the stent stays put no matter what I do or how full the bladder is.

Do you find that this causes discomfort? 

I've still been unable to find a design that is comfortable for long term wear.. The longest I can go is a couple of hours.. Especially if I am doing any sort of activity. Not really sure what direction to head. 

[cathdiap]

@fetishbroDO No discomfort at alI. I just pulled it out to make a pic of it, check my previous post. Immediately put it back and no pain or discomfort whatsoever. In bed the uncontrolled wetting goes on, but as always, only when the bladder starts contracting or when I move. Last night I woke up in the middle of a large wetting, wonderful feeling.

Of course my urethra has become used to having a stent in, but discomfort after only a couple of hours is a sign that the stent is causing too much friction. Hard to tell why and where, but I suggest you keep on experimenting with shape, materials and measurements. Every urethra is different, but once the stent matches its specific shape and sufficiently anchors around the sphincters it will work and be comfortable to wear. Not for weeks and months on end because over time there will grow some deposition of uric crystals on and in the stent, which in itself causes irritatiion. Every once in a while the stent needs to be removed and cleaned.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

[fetishbroDO]

5 hours ago, cathdiap said:

Every urethra is different, but once the stent matches its specific shape and sufficiently anchors around the sphincters it will work and be comfortable to wear.

Thanks for the advice.. I've made one which seems to "slide into place," so to speak, and it seems to fit somewhat appropriately... But it does get uncomfortable after a while. The funny thing is that the measurements seem nearly identical to another one I've made, which doesn't seem to fit so well. I can't seem to figure out what the right answer is, truthfully.

On this issue of materials, I do wonder if that may be part of the problem. Can you comment about what you're using? Specifically for the interior. I have been using a 4mm OD PTFE tubing, and I'm starting to wonder if that may be part of the issue. It doesn't seem to be very easy to mold into shape, and yet it's also very firm.

Did you just keep making new ones of various lengths until you found one that fit?

[cathdiap]

13 minutes ago, fetishbroDO said:

Did you just keep making new ones of various lengths until you found one that fit?

Yeah, that is pretty much it. It took me years to find out what works and what doesn’t. And still learning as we speak. But I like it and I have  had very good and comfortable stents for over 10 years now. The last hurdle I had to take was developing one that didn’t migrate at all. I am hoping that I am almost there. 

 

[Justmeinnh]

I will post mine in a bit,  gotten pretty good with building them.  The one I have in now has been in just a bit over 3 weeks.  Love every second.  Very occasionally when I am asleep it will migrate in, but a gentle tug pulls it back into duty position. 

 

Going to try to make this one go 4 weeks, then pull it out and check on it.  The current longest I've had one in was 3 weeks, and it came out a little encrusted but in otherwise good shape.

 

I'd like to reliably go 6 weeks before changing them out.

[Fuzz]

On 7/1/2020 at 6:35 AM, cathdiap said:

@Fuzz I still use a stent with three angles. But in my search for an unmovable stent I tweaked it a little a few weeks ago. What really helped a lot was lowering the top angle so the part of the stent inside the bladder is straight. ThIs way the top angle sits just between the prostate and the inner sphincter. I found out that hooking the stent in the bladder with a high curve is not that important to prevent it from sliding out. But when there is no curve inside the bladder there is no longer a chance of pulling the stent upwards when the bladder is filling up and going up in the stomach.

I also reduced the angle of the lowest curve. This way the lower part of the stent Is pointing a little upwards and sort of hooks in the urethra around the outer sphincter. Until now it seems the stent stays put no matter what I do or how full the bladder is.

I will wear it another week before removing the retrieval line. I have to be absolutely sure the stent will never migrate inside the bladder.

I think the eye at the bottom of your stent may have been the cause of the bleeding you have recently experienced. I have experimented with those in my early years of stent use, but they always caused great discomfort. 
 

My latest stent. The ruler has a metric scale (centimeters).

Thanks for the reply and topic with so much good information!

But is the 90 degrees angle hard to push in and out? I wanna try it but fear it could get stuck...

[Justmeinnh]

Here is mine.  It is manufactured in two parts- the red tip, or cap, is part one, and gets reused.   The second part is everything else.

 

Part 1:  Is a normal screw cap, that is cut short and modified using a heat gun to become narrower because I have a narrow-ish urethral tip and can't fit a cap in there otherwise.   I cut it to about 1CM in length, mount it on a small allen wrench, and use a heat gun and wet fingers to gently mold it into a narrower profile, and to round off the cut edges so they are smooth.  I heat up a mini screwdriver (metal end) with the heat gun, and when it is hot, I take the cap off the allen wrench, hold it between my fingers, and push the screwdriver through the cap to make the hole at the tip.  I make sure everything is smooth and there are no irritating plastic burrs that would harm the urethra.  This cap can be re-used many times on future stents.

 

Part 2: Ingredients:  12fr intermittent catheter, Q-tip with hollow plastic middle, fishing line, and 3 o-rings.  Large, Med, and small I guess.  Tools: leather punch, crochet hook, needle, knife.   Cut the cath to size- mine is around 4.5 inches or so, but everyone is different, and teeny tiny variations can make the difference between un-noticable and painful.  Locate the lower hole in the cath (closest to the cut end), and use the leather punch to create a hole opposite the stock hole. (leather punch will go through both holes).  Thread the crochet hook through the holes, and hook the medium o-ring onto the hook.  Use you ingenuity to pull on the o-ring so it is securely on the hook, stretch the cath so the holes are a bit stretched out, and pull the crochet hook back through the holes, which should leave the o-ring threaded through the holes in the cath.  It will look a little like boyhood's design.

Then take the q-tip and cut the middle part to length, maybe 3/4 of an inch.  Push this tube into the stock top hole of the cath toward the o-ring.  Now use your  ingenuity to pull apart the wings of the o-ring to stretch it way out, which will also stretch the cath a bit, and push the tube down through between the o-ring sections.  Make sure you push it down enough so the tube is clear of the top cath hole so urine can get through.

The o-ring traps the plastic tube in place within the cath, so it does not move easily.  I've never had one budge.  You can leave the o-ring with the wings out to either side, or you can do what I do which is pull one side until the other is tight against the cath and tube.  I think insertion/extraction is more comfortable this way, and 've never had one come out accidentally since I got the length right.

Then take a meter or so of retrieval line, fishing or whatever, and thread it through the needle, with an inch out one side of the needle and the rest on the other side.  Poke the needle through the cut end of the cath, from the inside out, then back through the cath to outside in.  I actually do this twice to minimize the risk of pulling  the line too hard and ripping it free of the very soft cath.  I also make sure to not go across the cath, where the insertion device might poke it and break the line, but I make sure that the line is kind of around the sides of the inside of the cath.    Then pull it through so you have plenty of scope.

Thread the cap onto the line, down to the cath.  Thread the tiny optional o-ring onto the line so both lines are inside the tiny o-ring, then thread one of the lines through the large o-ring.  Tie the threads together so the large o-ring is secured.

Drop the whole thing into the sterilizing solution of your choice and insert as you would any stent.  The thing I like about this one, is when it is inserted, you put the large o-ring around the head of your penis.  This keeps you from accidentally tugging it out, and also makes it feel more organic, with nothing dangling around and slapping around.  I adjust my line so that the o-ring can remain on the penis even when fully erect (with very little excess).  This acts as an outside anchor which resists inward migration when erect, which is the time mine might migrate in.  It also is almost invisible, as the o-ring is usually hidden by loose penis skin, and all you might glimpse is nearly invisible line coming from the urethra and circling closely back, and maybe the tiny optional o-ring.  I just have the tiny one on there so if it migrates in the middle of the night, I don't have to turn on the light, take the diaper off, and find the retrieval lines with my fingers- now I just can grab the tiny o-ring with eyes closed.

 

The bend just comes naturally after being in my body for weeks on end.

[cathdiap]

On 7/5/2020 at 12:03 AM, Fuzz said:

But is the 90 degrees angle hard to push in and out? I wanna try it but fear it could get stuck...

Yes a little, but that’s also the reason why it doesn’t migrate. ?

But I find the discomfort is bearable during insertion or removal.

[babypony]

I would like to offer a public apology to 

Cathdiap, Denoir and loveable guy The reason for this apology is that I offered to hire all three to teach me on how to build a stent, to sell me a stent and for any rudeness . Someone who knows of you guys suggested your not in it for the money but for the fun and adventure. I did not mean any offense and I humble apology to all of you please forgive me for my rudeness I would have like to offer it in a message but not all of the mail is goIng through. I just wanted to experience the lack of bladder control and I let that desire get in the way of good manners Again I am sorry.

[Loveable_guy]

babypony, there is plenty of good information posted here and elsewhere. Read up, experiment on your own. Ask questions.  This is not a switch you can turn on overnight. It takes time to learn most importantly learn about yourself. It is unlikely anyone is going to make your the equivalent of a medical device that could do you harm if misused.

Good luck and play safe!

[babypony]

Thank you

[Old_PA]

I have always found taking a shower awkward with a stent in place as one doesn't want to dribble all over the bathroom floor. I use pull ups and putting one on when not properly dry is no fun.  I thought of wrapping 'it' in some sort of cloth before leaving the shower. I have a stack of single use, toweling cloths about 10 in sq saved from flights. One of these is wrapped and held in place with an elastic band while I dry off at leisure. Anything would do.  Sorry ladies, won't work for you.

[Loveable_guy]

Search for a penis clamp or take a 8" piece if 1/4" silicone rubber tubing  and two 3" sticks of something that will fit inside the rubber tube. Bic Pens work well. Use an O ring to clamp one end closed while the other end makes up the hinge end.  Works like a champ for about $1.

[Somebodysworld]

I did just find this medical Study:

https://www.rehab.research.va.gov/jour/08/45/4/orris.html

I'm not sure if someone already posted it but it seams to be an medical stent. I did not find any further information but maybe it's possible to reconstruct that design.