What Kills A Story For You?

[ValentinesStuff]

3 hours ago, WBDaddy said:

I was just reminded of something that can kill a story for me the moment I start reading.

Telling me in the intro how average and unremarkable your protagonist is.

Chapter 1 is your chance to show me why I should care about the people in your story - why would you start by telling me I SHOULDN'T care?!

What's worse is when the character is said to be average, and then the following accomplishments are listed: 

Straight A student.

Head cheerleader/ football star.

Professional model.

Star actor of the play.

Volunteers at the local elder care facility.

Won the lottery.

Gave all the winnings to charity.

 

But the MC is average...

[Brisemenu]

3 hours ago, WBDaddy said:

I was just reminded of something that can kill a story for me the moment I start reading.

Telling me in the intro how average and unremarkable your protagonist is.

Chapter 1 is your chance to show me why I should care about the people in your story - why would you start by telling me I SHOULDN'T care?!

 

Or when the MC is treated like a hero by the narrator just cause he/she suffer, just cause bad things happens to him, but never do anything good or even classy, never have a single though for others. Suffering is not a virtue. It's not enough to make a character nice or "cool" especially when he spend all his time crying and complaining 

[Cute_Kitten]

When describing female characters and the author turns character description into a laundry list of attributes that radiate happy-fappy vibes. "She was 5'8 and 3 inches with a 32 inch bust (with, most importantly, SIZE DDD BOOBIES!!!!!), 23 inch waist, and 34 hips. ?‍♀️ It's like they replace character-building, or showing who their characters are, with overly detailed character description.

[Mugi]

I don't like stories where everything happens so fast, its like the person writing is just writing because they need their own fap material. I want the writer to be able to give details, explore emotions etc

And if a story is overly dark then I don't like to read it. example, I once read an abdl story which involved amputation which was so absurd and extreme it became even ridiculous, and that made me stop reading the story.

[diaprbayb]

On 8/10/2021 at 5:26 PM, Cute_Kitten said:

When describing female characters and the author turns character description into a laundry list of attributes that radiate happy-fappy vibes. "She was 5'8 and 3 inches with a 32 inch bust (with, most importantly, SIZE DDD BOOBIES!!!!!), Blah Blah bla bla ba bla. blah blah-ha bah bla blahh blah ba blah

 

[Lost Little Neppy]

For me, it's several things.

• Too much sexuality with none of the drama or the "this is not normal" insight.
• The caretaker being a competent adult, but wears diapers for fun or is also incontinent. This rarely works for me, since I prefer adults to be actual adults. Unless it's something where it's a big kids club of pull-up wearers who "care" for a baby, but there aren't many stories like that.
• MDLB is typically not my thing.
• Diaper dimension stories. Oversaturation of the genre has caused me to become jaded of it, and there aren't that many that I enjoy anymore.
• Stories that are all fantasy with no drama. I don't like reading stories where someone's parents/siblings/friends are okay with someone being an adult baby or a diaper lover. It just makes me more angry that such a thing isn't accepted in today's world.
• Babyfurs are not my thing.
• Stories that are dark, but don't really go into much detail on why it's dark. It comes off as lazy.

[Cute_Kitten]

17 hours ago, diaprbayb said:

 

I'm not sure what you meant by this? 

[ValentinesStuff]

18 hours ago, Cute_Kitten said:

I'm not sure what you meant by this? 

@diaprbaybDoesn't like stories that lack words.

 

[Cute_Kitten]

8 hours ago, ValentinesStuff said:

@diaprbaybDoesn't like stories that lack words.

 

Words are very helpful things for story construction. ?

[diaprbayb]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:24 PM, Cute_Kitten said:

I'm not sure what you meant by this? 

 

6 minutes ago, Cute_Kitten said:

Words are very helpful things for story construction. ?

most "boys" stop listening after you say BOOBIES.

[Cute_Kitten]

12 minutes ago, diaprbayb said:

 

most "boys" stop listening after you say BOOBIES.

That is a very good point. ?

[Personalias]

5 hours ago, Cute_Kitten said:

That is a very good point. ?

Wrong!  "Boobs" gets my attention IMMEDIATELY.  Tell me more about the boobs.

[spark]

4 hours ago, Personalias said:

Wrong!  "Boobs" gets my attention IMMEDIATELY.  Tell me more about the boobs.

From Scrubs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixr5GSUWwEw

The girls start talking about shoes- and the men zone out- to bring them back- mention bras (or cotton panties).  

On 8/17/2021 at 4:12 PM, Lost Little Neppy said:

For me, it's several things.

• Too much sexuality with none of the drama or the "this is not normal" insight.
• The caretaker being a competent adult, but wears diapers for fun or is also incontinent. This rarely works for me, since I prefer adults to be actual adults. Unless it's something where it's a big kids club of pull-up wearers who "care" for a baby, but there aren't many stories like that.
• MDLB is typically not my thing.
• Diaper dimension stories. Oversaturation of the genre has caused me to become jaded of it, and there aren't that many that I enjoy anymore.
• Stories that are all fantasy with no drama. I don't like reading stories where someone's parents/siblings/friends are okay with someone being an adult baby or a diaper lover. It just makes me more angry that such a thing isn't accepted in today's world.
• Babyfurs are not my thing.
• Stories that are dark, but don't really go into much detail on why it's dark. It comes off as lazy.

I'm right with almost everything that you said, except I'm a boy and drawn to the MDLB stories, but it's hard for me to accept an MD figure who vindictive and exploitive.   I also don't enjoy where the LB is completely helpless and weak

Ironically- quite a few LG stories still have the little retaining some sense of pride- while way to often the LB stories have the the male completely domiinated- and sometimes with little regard to the what is best for the little.

[Lost Little Neppy]

Haha, yeah. It's a bit sexist, isn't it? Or just that femdom is the popular thing, so being completely submissive and letting it all happen with no say whatsoever is just part of the fantasy. Meanwhile, girls are expected to put up a fight and act prissy. Hm.

[Babypants]

The yawning trap that threatens everyone who writes fetish fiction is that they will center the narrative on the fetish object or practice, and either ignore character development completely, or at best keep it cursory.  Agatha Christie and a few others aside, there is very little quality fiction that is plot centered.  Character drives fiction, and the thoughts, words and behavior of characters assigned narrative POV must be plausible to the reader.  This means that the protagonist/s must be introduced in sufficient depth to allow a reader to connect with said protagonist.  How often do you read a post on this site that meets this minimal professional standard?  Frankly, less than 10% of what appears here should have ever seen the light of day-- and some of the most prolific contributors are the worst offenders.

Mistakes here are often elementary.  Writers need constantly to keep in mind that their audience is international, and not take understanding for granted.  For example, stories about children or adolescents should never use school terms as a marker for the passage of time.  Instead, use the calendar.  So, "it was the second week in March, and Spring Break was rapidly approaching" informs.  "Spring Break was rapidly approaching" does not.  Again, the most prolific contributors tend to be the worst offenders.  I have abandoned several stories recently because I am not privy to assumptions that turn out to be pivot points in the plot.

Finally, and as you pointed out long years ago, plausible fiction has to get the details right.  You don't strip adolescent boys to change their diapers in full view of a large audience on a public beach.  How many times have you read a story here in which one or more characters violated public obscenity laws?  The answer is too many.  How many stories have you read in which the plot is ushered along with unlikely scenarios, such as having a parent in the room to manage a conversation between a physician and an injured child?  Again, far too many. Alas, this is what happens when a writer allows the fetish to drive the narrative.  Yes, it's careless, even sloppy, but the blunt truth is that it's very, very hard to get into the right lane when you start out in the wrong one.  

[ValentinesStuff]

Public indecency and obscenity are two different things.

 

Here's the local, Illinois public indecency laws.

Quote

Sec. 11-30. Public indecency.     (a) Any person of the age of 17 years and upwards who performs any of the following acts in a public place commits a public indecency:         (1) An act of sexual penetration or sexual conduct; or         (2) A lewd exposure of the body done with intent to arouse or to satisfy the sexual desire of the person.     Breast-feeding of infants is not an act of public indecency.     (b) "Public place" for purposes of this Section means any place where the conduct may reasonably be expected to be viewed by others.

Note that sexual stimulation or a sexual act is required, nudity is not. In public grinding on you gf is a crime, being naked is not.

[Lost Little Neppy]

Being naked in Illinois would be silly anyway. The winters alone.

Something I thought of after doing some recent reading (not here). No dialogue. In fiction, I expect dialogue, otherwise it's just boring.

[Babypants]

On 8/27/2021 at 2:37 AM, ValentinesStuff said:

Public indecency and obscenity are two different things.

 

Here's the local, Illinois public indecency laws.

Note that sexual stimulation or a sexual act is required, nudity is not. In public grinding on you gf is a crime, being naked is not.

The statutes, and their phrasing, vary from country to country, and in the US, from state to state.  In 1987, NHL hockey great Dino Ciccarelli went out to collect his morning paper here in MN without bothering to dress.  He was charged, and resolved the matter by pleading guilty to indecent exposure, receiving probation in return.  There was no sexual intent in his action.

In the case of IL, who gets to determine what is or is not "sexual conduct?"  These statutes are often couched in deliberately vague language to give LE a great deal of discretion.  Personally, I would not risk a diaper change on a Lake Michigan public beach in the presence of others, or even on a private beach unless it was shrouded from public view.     

[ausdpr]

On 8/27/2021 at 1:25 PM, Babypants said:

Mistakes here are often elementary.  Writers need constantly to keep in mind that their audience is international, and not take understanding for granted.  For example, stories about children or adolescents should never use school terms as a marker for the passage of time.  Instead, use the calendar.  So, "it was the second week in March, and Spring Break was rapidly approaching" informs.  "Spring Break was rapidly approaching" does not.  Again, the most prolific contributors tend to be the worst offenders.  I have abandoned several stories recently because I am not privy to assumptions that turn out to be pivot points in the plot.

As one of the few people living in the southern hemisphere I've never really found it an issue. You adapt without even thinking. e.g. It never snows here at Christmas (or any time of year) but all the stores are covered in fake snow decals and fluffy Santa outfits and slays etc, with the shopping centres/malls blaring christmas carols about white christmas and dashing through the snow, with people on TV singing the same songs and giving it their all. I've never even seen snow but never really considered it odd, and it took me like 30 years to even consider that none of the Christmas content is localized.

[Sir Stinkypants]

This is an interesting thread, I am glad I stumbled upon it! Having read through most if not all of the previous posts, I would say that I agree with some of the sentiments expressed and disagree with others. That this is true comes as no surprise, for I have long been aware that the people here come to this lifestyle/interest from numerous different angles, and thus writing something that will please everyone is absolutely impossible.

This is why when I started my own first story here (which I am still working on), I began with as clear a caveat as I could conceive of as to what it would entail; I wished to save people as far as possible from wasting their time or being offended by the subject matter.

The fact that nothing is everyone’s cup of tea should in my opinion in no way deter people from expressing their own ideas here in written form, for whatever pleases you in a story will undoubtedly please at least some others if presented well. I would tend to encourage a broad range of creative attempts rather than to stifle things that are not my personal taste. To each, his or her own, I always say...

That said...

I am a fan of plausibility. I like reasonable behavior as far as characters, and fairly minimal suspension of disbelief. I thus do not care for the diaper dimension (at least any I have read) or other fanciful universes. I see that DD is popular here, but it is not for me...

[Little Matt]

Honestly realism isn't very important to me. Outlandish plots are perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned. I have some pretty outlandish fantasies, so why not? I guess I want the people in the story to behave in realistic ways. But even then, a diaper story is going to be pretty limited if the characters don't have a least little more tolerance for people wearing diapers past the usual age than is strictly realistic.

[WBDaddy]

9 minutes ago, Little Matt said:

 But even then, a diaper story is going to be pretty limited if the characters don't have a least little more tolerance for people wearing diapers past the usual age than is strictly realistic.

Yeah, for certain.  But make an effort to convince me that this person has motivations or a personality type that meshes with this being okay. Or build the world for me, that people would find this acceptable and not call the cops or something. 

[spark]

By definition, there has to be some unrealistic elements in a diaper.  In most cases- the protagonist is going to end up in diapers with little, or no hope getting out.  I think a lot of writers end up rushing the process, where there has never been a hint that protagonist was prone to diapers, and yet with a matter of mere days they've already pooped their diapers in public, contently sucking on a pacifier and seemingly accepting their regressed fate.   

I know why writers do that, because they can't drag the process.  This is strictly a hobby for vast majority of the writers her- and the same with online formats.     Even who seemingly have enough of a following to support themselves tend to write things that is read with the left hand.  Sometimes that process gets rushed.

The key is to establish the scenario, and set the scenario- and then bring us to world where that is believable.   I've read the Sakura Series from Kita Sparkles.   She set up the original scenario in a believable way.   A young girl is staying with her sister away from home and asks if she can relieve a time when her older sister put her in diapers as game.   By the time she introduces her friend who also wants to wear diapers- and it is acceptable in the context of the story.   Mind you in that series, Sakura and Megan has been diapered non-stop from 9 to 13.  Three other peers have worn diapers, along with a camp counselor.   And the older parents/guardians have encouraged the use of diapers.   it's a unrealistic scenario, but as the reader- I was brought to that leap in small jumps.  Not to be political, but maybe that explains some of the conspiracy theorists accept absurd beliefs.

[WBDaddy]

1 hour ago, spark said:

Not to be political, but maybe that explains some of the conspiracy theorists accept absurd beliefs.

If you do it right, you can suspend disbelief no matter the situation.  

[spark]

46 minutes ago, WBDaddy said:

If you do it right, you can suspend disbelief no matter the situation.  

It happens in traditional media all the time.

Even though Star Wars in a fantasy world, we still end up accepting that the Ewoks successfully secured the Empire Base on Endor.   Breaking Bad was a great show, but at some point I've looked back and think 'Wait a minute.'

The key is setting it up in such a way that you're invested in the character when it happens, and it pushes the story,