Taxes On Diapers

[willnotwill]

Boy, I've never seen so much misinformed drivel. Federal and state politicians pay income tax on their salaries.

There is no exclusion (at least not at the federal level). The information on congressional pensions was

entirely wrong as well. They do not get 100% of their salary at one year. It doesn't even vest without five

years of service and it's nowhere near 100% at that point. It is a sweet deal, especially for a politician that

doesn't get elected until he's 57. He gets max benefits if he leaves office and retires at 62.

[ArtemisEnterri]

Yea, any country that isn't totally dedicated to being run by corporations only in it for the money, or who actually helps people out is definitely evil and against America in every way possible.

Do you republicans hear to your selves? Or do you take a fox news approach of who ever screams incoherently the loudest is the most rightest?

Apparently you know NOTHING about how the American political system works.

What is RIGHT is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS and DOING THINGS FOR YOURSELF INSTEAD OF EXPECTING OTHERS (LIKE THE GOVERNMENT) TO DO THEM FOR YOU!

People who expect their government to do things for them (like healthcare, welfare, etc) are LAZY people (particularly those families who spend GENERATIONS on those programs without EVER trying to EARN, by working at a job, the things they want)! If you want something PAY FOR IT YOUR DAMN SELF, DON'T DEMAND THAT OTHERS PAY FOR IT FOR YOU (which is what happens when you receive government benefits if you have never worked to pay into the system)! I do not agree with the government giving my tax money to lazy scum who don't do jack sh!t except sit on their asses, pop out new babies, etc...

Letting the government have too much control MAKES EVERYONE POOR EXCEPT THE POLITICIANS! Are you people BLIND to the history of Communist Russia before it collapsed????? The worst levels of poverty in ANY country, store shelves were ALMOST ALWAYS EMPTY because the businesses had NO INCENTIVE TO PRODUCE GOODS because the businesses never got to keep any profits and employees got almost NO PAY for their work! That's the kind of sh!t that the "left" in America wants to cause.

The ONLY way to have EVERYONE (except the politicians) at an "equal" standing is for EVERYONE (except the politicians) TO BE POOR! The politicians make the "rich" people (who CREATED the businesses that provided jobs) into the enemies to be stopped... Without "rich" people owning businesses and employing people, NO ONE WOULD HAVE JOBS AND EVERYONE WOULD BE ON WELFARE (which is what the "left" WANT TO HAPPEN)!!!

Anyone who doesn't believe in Capitalism needs to GET THE HELL OUT OF AMERICA, AND NEEDS TO KEEP THEIR DAMN OPINIONS TO THEMSELVES! AMERICA WAS CREATED BY CAPITALISTS, AND SUCCEEDED FOR 200 YEARS THROUGH CAPITALISM! Capitalism and profit ARE NOT EVIL. Communism and Marxism ARE NOT ABOUT "EQUALITY", THEY ARE ABOUT GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF THE PEOPLE! THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT WAS DEFINED AS "OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, AND FOR THE PEOPLE", but the politicians over the last 30+ years have TWISTED it around... They keep trying to redefine the words of the Constitution by saying "it's a 'living document' open to reinterpretation", but that is absolute F'ING BULLSH!T, those words mean THE EXACT SAME THING today as they did the day they were written. THOSE WORDS SHOULD BE TREATED AS IF THEY WERE SET IN STONE!!!

Boy, I've never seen so much misinformed drivel. Federal and state politicians pay income tax on their salaries.

There is no exclusion (at least not at the federal level). The information on congressional pensions was

entirely wrong as well. They do not get 100% of their salary at one year. It doesn't even vest without five

years of service and it's nowhere near 100% at that point. It is a sweet deal, especially for a politician that

doesn't get elected until he's 57. He gets max benefits if he leaves office and retires at 62.

Will, are you (or were you ever previously) a Senator or Congressman in DC? If not, where do you get your information?

Senators and Congressmen (plus the Justices of the Supreme Court and the President himself) PAY NO INCOME TAXES. The aides, secretaries, etc who are BELOW the Senators and Congressmen DO PAY income taxes. The funny thing of it: their salaries are paid by OUR TAX MONEY! They vote pay increases for themselves, and we don't get any say in it (although we SHOULD because their pay rates are around FIVE TIMES what the AVERAGE WORKING citizen gets paid - hell, the Prez made FOUR F*CKING MILLION FROM HIS BOOKS EACH YEAR BEFORE HE WAS VOTED IN!). If anything is "unfair", THAT is the most unfair of anything. Last year my salary was only $36.5K for the year, the average for Senators is $175K a year...

Just look at the Duggar family, Jim Bob Duggar was a state-level Congressman for one term in Arkansas, then "retired". He sure as heck can't support a family with 19 kids on the income from a used car dealership which has very few sales per day (and which he signed over to his oldest son as a wedding present, so he no longer even owns it)... So he's got some kind of sweet income from his state as his "retirement"... Everyone knows Michelle doesn't work, she stays at home with the kids and home-schools them.

When they go shopping, they buy ONLY WITH STRAIGHT CASH, THE DON'T USE CREDIT CARDS! They bought a MINI BUS with CASH! So where are they getting that kind of cash? FROM HIS FREAKING STATE PENSION!

[loopy]

Apparently you know NOTHING about how the American political system works.

What is RIGHT is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS and DOING THINGS FOR YOURSELF INSTEAD OF EXPECTING OTHERS (LIKE THE GOVERNMENT) TO DO THEM FOR YOU!

People who expect their government to do things for them (like healthcare, welfare, etc) are LAZY people (particularly those families who spend GENERATIONS on those programs without EVER trying to EARN, by working at a job, the things they want)! If you want something PAY FOR IT YOUR DAMN SELF, DON'T DEMAND THAT OTHERS PAY FOR IT FOR YOU (which is what happens when you receive government benefits if you have never worked to pay into the system)! I do not agree with the government giving my tax money to lazy scum who don't do jack sh!t except sit on their asses, pop out new babies, etc...

I thought the American political system worked as a democracy, people vote for a party, president is elected. A system of majority rules. Obviously in america the few who didn't want the President are now screaming incoherently nightly on fox news.

I don't believe in giving money to those who don't earn it, that's whats happened in the uk for the past 10 years with nulabour. But Welfare when it works is a good thing, it should be there to give people a basic (BASIC!) standard of living. Healthcare is different, everyone should be entitled to the best healthcare possible. It shouldn't be turned into a money maker for insurance companies and drug companies. Because paying $100k for cancer drugs is just not right, and is just naked profiteering.

Letting the government have too much control MAKES EVERYONE POOR EXCEPT THE POLITICIANS! Are you people BLIND to the history of Communist Russia before it collapsed????? The worst levels of poverty in ANY country, store shelves were ALMOST ALWAYS EMPTY because the businesses had NO INCENTIVE TO PRODUCE GOODS because the businesses never got to keep any profits and employees got almost NO PAY for their work! That's the kind of sh!t that the "left" in America wants to cause.

The ONLY way to have EVERYONE (except the politicians) at an "equal" standing is for EVERYONE (except the politicians) TO BE POOR! The politicians make the "rich" people (who CREATED the businesses that provided jobs) into the enemies to be stopped... Without "rich" people owning businesses and employing people, NO ONE WOULD HAVE JOBS AND EVERYONE WOULD BE ON WELFARE (which is what the "left" WANT TO HAPPEN)!!!

Basically, you're saying that anything that isn't naked republican style capitalism is Communist. Which just isn't true and you know it. There are ways of bringing in good quality healthcare for all with out turning to communism. If capitalism is so great then why do Americans spend upto 4 times as much on health care as people in the UK? That's including the taxes that we pay for it. If capitalism is so great why are there still vast amounts of poor people in america still? too poor to even start thinking about getting a job and house. I agree having everyone equal doesn't work, but going the totally opposite direction doesn't work either. It just means that there's people in America who live in 3rd world country conditions.

Anyone who doesn't believe in Capitalism needs to GET THE HELL OUT OF AMERICA, AND NEEDS TO KEEP THEIR DAMN OPINIONS TO THEMSELVES! AMERICA WAS CREATED BY CAPITALISTS, AND SUCCEEDED FOR 200 YEARS THROUGH CAPITALISM! Capitalism and profit ARE NOT EVIL. Communism and Marxism ARE NOT ABOUT "EQUALITY", THEY ARE ABOUT GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF THE PEOPLE! THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT WAS DEFINED AS "OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, AND FOR THE PEOPLE", but the politicians over the last 30+ years have TWISTED it around... They keep trying to redefine the words of the Constitution by saying "it's a 'living document' open to reinterpretation", but that is absolute F'ING BULLSH!T, those words mean THE EXACT SAME THING today as they did the day they were written. THOSE WORDS SHOULD BE TREATED AS IF THEY WERE SET IN STONE!!!

The people who didn't believe in Capitalism obviously thought they could vote for Obama and try and change the situation. Saying they need to get out of the country and keep their opinions to them selves is just unbelievably ignorant. Republicans to me seem amazingly selfish, in it for them selves, fuck everyone else me me me me! I DON'T WANT TO WASTE MY MONEY ON OTHERS MORE UNFORTUNATE THEN ME, I WANT TO WASTE IT ON BIG OL CARS AND BURGERS!

Fuck it, nothing I say is going to change your mind. I just suggest you stop listening to the bullshit spouted on fox news, and try to open your eyes to all the other countries that have healthcare, have a welfare system, then see how they compare in quality of life... because the majority are higher then America.

[ArtemisEnterri]

I thought the American political system worked as a democracy, people vote for a party, president is elected. A system of majority rules. Obviously in america the few who didn't want the President are now screaming incoherently nightly on fox news.

I don't believe in giving money to those who don't earn it, that's whats happened in the uk for the past 10 years with nulabour. But Welfare when it works is a good thing, it should be there to give people a basic (BASIC!) standard of living. Healthcare is different, everyone should be entitled to the best healthcare possible. It shouldn't be turned into a money maker for insurance companies and drug companies. Because paying $100k for cancer drugs is just not right, and is just naked profiteering.

Yes, "majority rules", yet the government keeps trying to pass laws based on what MINORITY (philosophical) groups want. That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the "majority rules" concept!

Gee, look at what you just said "when it works". Do you consider it "working" when a family lives off welfare for 2, 3, even 4 generations, teaching their kids "there's no reason to go out and work, cuz the government gives us money for doing nothing"???

As far as the drug prices, do you have any clue how much money it costs to RESEARCH, then PRODUCE those drugs in the first place? Then look at the number of people who use those drugs compared to the number of people using something like simple Aspirin (a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE). If the company can't make enough money on sales to at least "break even", they wouldn't be able to afford additional RESEARCH and PRODUCTION costs to make more drugs.

Basically, you're saying that anything that isn't naked republican style capitalism is Communist. Which just isn't true and you know it. There are ways of bringing in good quality healthcare for all with out turning to communism. If capitalism is so great then why do Americans spend upto 4 times as much on health care as people in the UK? That's including the taxes that we pay for it. If capitalism is so great why are there still vast amounts of poor people in america still? too poor to even start thinking about getting a job and house. I agree having everyone equal doesn't work, but going the totally opposite direction doesn't work either. It just means that there's people in America who live in 3rd world country conditions.

Wrong, you are twisting my words. American people spend more for health care because the HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATORS are corrupt, NOT because of the insurance companies. The problem is that the hospital administrators have realized over the years that since the patients are using prepaid insurance plans, they can increase their fees for services because the insurance companies (in the beginning) didn't review the bills very closely and didn't realize the hospitals were overcharging. Plus administrators would suggest unneeded tests or procedures just to get additional money from the insurance companies. So don't blame it on the insurance companies, they were LOSING money because of excessive payouts.

The people who didn't believe in Capitalism obviously thought they could vote for Obama and try and change the situation. Saying they need to get out of the country and keep their opinions to them selves is just unbelievably ignorant. Republicans to me seem amazingly selfish, in it for them selves, fuck everyone else me me me me! I DON'T WANT TO WASTE MY MONEY ON OTHERS MORE UNFORTUNATE THEN ME, I WANT TO WASTE IT ON BIG OL CARS AND BURGERS!

Fuck it, nothing I say is going to change your mind. I just suggest you stop listening to the bullshit spouted on fox news, and try to open your eyes to all the other countries that have healthcare, have a welfare system, then see how they compare in quality of life... because the majority are higher then America.

Loopy, apparently you haven't paid attention to the number of times I have mentioned across the boards that I have been UNEMPLOYED since January. I have NEVER said anything the way you put it. I have NEVER had the money for a good car, house, etc. I don't own any stocks, bonds, or investments of any kind. My last salary before I was laid-off was only $36.5k per year, which had me just a hair over the POVERTY level. But I'm not EVER gonna use the welfare system because I don't want to be lumped in with the people who choose not to work even if they are perfectly capable (like the mother of a friend of ours who receives welfare, lives in subsidized housing, and kept trying to tell our friend and her brother "there's nothing wrong with living off the system, there's no reason to go to work").

And when there are so many countries that already HAVE the socialized systems that certain people want, why can't THEY move out of America to one of those countries and leave America to the people who WANT CAPITALISM? Why does America have to become a clone of other countries when America was created to be INDEPENDENT and DIFFERENT from ALL other countries?

[FretaBWet]

Anon, I'm also unemployed with no healthcare (have been since the first week of January) and would rather have the government STAY THE HELL OUTTA MY LIFE. What car I choose to drive IS MY CHOICE! Whether or not I purchase a healthcare plan IS MY CHOICE!

At least the "profit motivated bureaucrats" of a business know the difference between a WORKING program and a FAILING program. Without profit, companies fail. But the government NEVER runs with a profit, it is ALWAYS A LOSS!!!!! So WHY does the government keep paying for programs that a CORPORATION would have TERMINATED quickly after realizing how much of a loss it was for the owners/shareholders?!?!?!?!?

The government is getting too F'ING BIG AND NEEDS TO STOP GROWING, AND ALSO NEEDS TO STAY OUT OF THE MARKETPLACE. If a company is failing, LET IT FAIL! And let a competitor pick up the pieces. America survived for TWO HUNDRED YEARS BEING CAPITALIST! The idiots in government now are trying to DESTROY EVERYTHING America stood for and represented in the world: Freedom of CHOICE, freedom to live how you wanted to live, buy what you wanted to buy, live where you wanted to live, OWN what you WANTED to own... For the last twenty years, the government has been getting involved in things that should have been left alone in the FREE MARKET where they belonged.

I'm not arguing against healthcare, what I'm arguing against is GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED healthcare.

When, at any point in the last 50 or 100 years, has the American government done ANYTHING that was in any way SUCCESSFUL as compared to an equivalent program run by a PRIVATE BUSINESS???

The idiots in government seem to think that you can solve a problem simply by throwing more money into a failing program, even if that program has been active (and failing the whole time) for 10+ years. But when a business has a program that they know is failing (whether it is losing a million dollars a year or a thousand dollars a day) they TERMINATE that program in order to SAVE the company (and the SHAREHOLDERS/OWNERS) from losing MONEY. Doesn't anyone else see that what the government is doing with OUR money is WRONG?!?!?!?!?!

And don't forget the fact that the money for ALL (American) government programs comes from US, the individuals... The actual politicians (at the Federal level, not sure about state level...) PAY NO TAXES on their salaries (which are paid from the money received from OUR TAXES). And every politician who retires (whether after only ONE year or FORTY years in office) receives their FULL PAY RATE for the rest of their lives! They don't have to use the healthcare plan they are trying to force on us cuz they have their own ultra-platinum coverage, they don't have to use the Social Security system for their retirement cuz they have their own super plan... And those plans are not paid for by them at all, EVERY PENNY spent by those plans for the politicians comes from OUR taxes, never from their own pocket!!!!!

I don't consider that fair at all. Maybe if the politicians had to use the same programs they expect us to use (Welfare, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Income Tax, etc), they would have SOLVED the problems in each program instead of IGNORING THEM YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!

I'm just wondering, are you sending the unemployment checks back uncashed or did you just not apply? I for one would be so impressed if you were refusing to participate in this government handout program that is just money going out with no profit for the government in line with your philosophy.

Hugs,

Freta

[ArtemisEnterri]

I'm just wondering, are you sending the unemployment checks back uncashed or did you just not apply? I for one would be so impressed if you were refusing to participate in this government handout program that is just money going out with no profit for the government in line with your philosophy.

Hugs,

Freta

Freta, there's a difference between the Unemployment and Welfare programs.

In order to receive Unemployment, you have to have PAID INTO IT before hand, so I AM using that program because I paid for it previously. And it has a DEFINED end date.

However, the Welfare program pays to many (too many) people who have NEVER worked a single day in their lives, in many cases, to people who never have any plan to work ever. Welfare does NOT have an end date, so some people live on Welfare month after month, year after year, and many families have done it generation after generation.

[loopy]

Wrong, you are twisting my words. American people spend more for health care because the HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATORS are corrupt, NOT because of the insurance companies. The problem is that the hospital administrators have realized over the years that since the patients are using prepaid insurance plans, they can increase their fees for services because the insurance companies (in the beginning) didn't review the bills very closely and didn't realize the hospitals were overcharging. Plus administrators would suggest unneeded tests or procedures just to get additional money from the insurance companies. So don't blame it on the insurance companies, they were LOSING money because of excessive payouts.

Firstly arsed replying to all the rest quite frankly.

But this is what happens when you run hospitals like a business, they're going to try and make as much money as possible. This is the problem with the NHS at the moment, the uk government has tried to make it cost effective like a business and that's why its failing. Spending money on middle management instead of doctors and nurses. Running government services like a business usually means it fails.

Like I say fuck it.

[ArtemisEnterri]

Firstly arsed replying to all the rest quite frankly.

But this is what happens when you run hospitals like a business, they're going to try and make as much money as possible. This is the problem with the NHS at the moment, the uk government has tried to make it cost effective like a business and that's why its failing. Spending money on middle management instead of doctors and nurses. Running government services like a business usually means it fails.

Like I say fuck it.

Which is exactly why I say that government needs to stay out of things that should be run by the private sector (meaning ANY form of business: utilities, retail sales, health care, etc)...

Politicians do NOT know how to make things work correctly, cuz 99% of all politicians were lawyers, judges, or had other law-related employment. Very few in office were actual business people (accountants, CEO's, etc) who would KNOW how to make things really work...

[d_drew12]

The gov't wouldn't step in unless there was a reason. Case and point, enough people cry about something say, working conditions, safetly problems on or with anything, health coverage, etc. How many people cry about how many jobs have been lost because of the economy and are now sucking on the gov't nipple and at the same time crying for them to do something about it.

Here's the real American problem. Americans typically want the gov't to stay out of there business until they don't have anywhere to turn and then they go crying to there feet and want something for nothing. Everyone wants to be taken care of and know they cannot be financially screwed if anything happens to them but they don't want to pay for it, just have it there if something does happen. Plenty of people spend there money before or when they get it and save nothing for the future or don't futurize at all and then something happens to them and they want to be cradled by the wing of the gov't. How many don't attempt to pay for health care or retirement and fall back on the gov't to pay for them because they don't or can't get a good enough job to pay for it in there eyes or whatever there reason may be. The truth of the matter is, the gov't wouldn't interfer unless a group of people large enough wanted them to. You just don't realize it. They didn't step in to make cars safer because car companies wanted them to, the consumers did. They didn't put in place health and safety standards for the heck of it, people wanted it. The list goes on but the real reason the gov't steps in is because someone want them to.

Cry about CEO's making 100 million in bonuses, but still use or buy there services yet want the gov't to step in on private enterprise, so they make less and everyone has the same slice of pie.

You'll bitch about the gov't and all they do until you're flat on your back without an income and then you'll bitch because they aren't doing enough for you. Maybe if the put some people back on the street people would actually have to do things for themselves for once.

The American way, everyone should have what the other person has, well, I tend to disagree.

[FretaBWet]

I don't really have a problem with you collecting unemployment benefits. I understand exactly what it is and have used it myself without guilt as I pay into it when I'm working too. My only issue is you're railing against government being involved in health insurance and they are unqualified and would just F it all up. My point is unemployment is an insurance plan run by the government that collects taxes from employers and pays out benefits when people are laid off. It isn't connected with any private insurance companies and it works well.

Ask yourself if this. If this plan were given to insurance companies to run, and they had the ability to raise rates to whatever level they needed/wanted, what do you think would happen? My common sense tells me that rates would go up or benefits would be lowered. I know this because insurance companies need to make a profit so they would need to raise rates by whatever their profit need was. Or they would lower the benefit amount by the same amount so they would have their money. I also know that in a free economy each insurance company is competing for the same pool of investment capital so the one that has the highest profit will be the one that grows the fastest and becomes the biggest. This is the engine that drove our economy to what it is but there should be some exceptions.

There's a lot of Obama bashing when the subject of insurance reform comes up. He gets called a socialist, communist and a lot of other unflattering things all because he sees the need for insurance reform and he feels the best hope is to have universal coverage and possibly a government option. This country has always had exceptions to capitalism. Usually things that were run by the government were public necessities. Water supply, sewage treatment, utilities like electricity and gas. In many states and communities they are owned and operated by the government because people realized that they didn't want some profit hungry corporation to have them by the balls. Maybe health insurance should be considered a necessity.

Hugs,

Freta

[redneck diaper boy]

I am not a political expert but I stay informed. The healthcare bill is a joke and takes away personal freedom. Here is the actual C-Span video from the House Floor.

People with no real knowledge about an issue repeating something someone said somewhere with authority.

Inject a bit of moral imperative and you have the random democrat picked off the street.

Inject a bit of fear mongering and you have the random republican similarly plucked.

In either case, every Joe the Plumber seems to think they're a policy expert these days.

Such is democracy in the age of the inter-webs.

[Leilin]

You know... I could swear that it's once every two or three months that these three take one forum completely unrelated to politics in here and use it as a place to hop on their soapbox.

We have places here for political discussion. Stop polluting the rest of DD with your discussion that is completely unrelated to our topics just because you can find a tenuous-at-best connection. This is not the place for this.

[AutieAB]

This is not the place for this.

Yep. At least take it to The Rest of Your Life or something. The people ranting in this thread remind me of this smiley:

[DailyDi]

I do not have health insurance because in my state it is controlled by two companies and neither will insure me.

I will take an imperfect bill over my current plan (sneak out the back door of the hospital and dodge their calls and letters.)

[babyfett]

Too many people on this thread are brain washed by the Bill Oreilly and the Faux Noise Network.

[redneck diaper boy]

To many people have been brainwashed by the likes of Keith Olberman. I had a Russian professor that taught us the dangers of Communism.

As a young child, I remember the bomb drills. We thought we were going to get nuked! Take a look at this film. You are't old enough to remember this:

I remember seeing this in the first grade!

My father fought against the Japanese in the 1940s and later in Korea.

As children we were taught the value of being an American and why our capitalist system was superior to the rest of the world. Capitalism gave the world a standard of living that our forfathers would have never dreamed of!

As for the Fox News Channel, it is the most accurate source of news on the planet. Accuracy in Media gave them an A+ rating. The only people that don't like Fox News are those wrong doers that are getting busted by Fox. Obama doesn't like Fox exposing his corrupt Communist agenda.

Too many people on this thread are brain washed by the Bill Oreilly and the Faux Noise Network.

[loopy]

As for the Fox News Channel, it is the most accurate source of news on the planet. Accuracy in Media gave them an A+ rating. The only people that don't like Fox News are those wrong doers that are getting busted by Fox. Obama doesn't like Fox exposing his corrupt Communist agenda.

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA you know how to tell a good joke.

And socialism does not mean Communism. And as much as I don't like over blown socialism, its a good thing when used in the right areas.

edit: oh and go have a read about Accuracy in Media, they don't seem very impartial.

[redneck diaper boy]

Socialism is a portal to Communism. American should not release the socialism demon.

Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35

January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

Do you think we are there yet? The above was predicted on the House floor in 1963!

The older I get, the more I believe that the late great Senator Joseph McCarthy was right on the money.

[AbriForm]

As much as I hate the notion of a government option... this part of it would actually benefit me.

I would have little problem getting a doctor who knows me to admit that diapers are beneficial to my relaxation, and medically-speaking, it wouldn't be hard to get a prescription.

Just think... Bambino Biancos on someone else's dime. Now that's change I can believe in.

(Obviously, I don't want anyone but me paying for my diapers... but I'll be happy to covertly work/wreck any system I'm subjected to. And, I doubt Bambino would pass on the opportunity to become subsidized either... if you think this is the only area prone to abuse, think again).

[Dougie]

As much bitching about Capitalism as there is in this thread, be certain of one fact:

You probably wouldn't have 1/8th of what you have now if not for the "Greedy Capitalists" that have driven companies to compete with each other for customers, improving our way of life as we know it.

I doubt this debate would even be happening because the internet either wouldn't exist for the public, or would be accessible to only the super rich that could afford it. Be thankful you live in a time and place that has benefited directly from the rewards of unregulated visionaries like Benjamin Franklin and Graham Bell.

No other system on the Earth has created such a vibrant level of existence for millions upon millions of people in history. It is the only system that allows even the poorest person to strive for a better life. That doesn't mean it's easy for everybody or that everybody succeeds. Capitalism is the only economic system that breeds Prosperity and Progress through competition. It's called "Free Enterprise". It is directly responsible for most of the advancements in quality of life and medicine that we have today. No other other system has the ability to facilitate those two critical components by design. There has been more advancement in the sciences and technologies in the past 200 years then humanity has documented for the previous 200,000 and more. All due to those "Greedy Capitalist Pigs" in the good ol' U.S. of A.

A little regulation can be a good idea to keep things safer for the consumer. Only a little. Personal accountability and good judgment need to be exercised beyond that.

Government controlled systems eliminate competition and prosperity by putting anti-competitive laws in place. By dictating what can be produced and how much it can be sold for companies have no desire to invest in the research that helps move that product or service forward. That would result in limiting progress for anything that doesn't directly benefit the government or the rich elite.

The lifestyle of the average person in East Germany (when it was still Soviet controlled) is a testament to that. If they wanted a car they paid up to 2 years salary, up front and in cash to be put on a waiting list. They got a car a few years later that was cheaply built, any color as that the factory chose to paint it, and termite problems were the biggest risk. The body of the car was made out of pressed particle board. The paint kept it from turning to mush in the rain. If they got into a wreck and it rained the body would fall off of the car. When I went there in 1990 (the weekend after the Berlin Wall opened) people in every city I went to looked depressed and without hope of any kind. The "High-Tech" store in East Berlin was selling goods that were 4 to 10 years behind what you could by in the USA.

I'll take my chances any day on a prosperous and risky system over a government run ship that is guaranteed to sink.

P.S. The United States Postal Service and the Federal Reserve are both privately owned institutions and are not owned in any way by the US government. The Federal Reserve controls how much money the US prints (HUGE MISTAKE). USPS is the regulated by the US government.

[loopy]

Dougie, I'm not anti capitalist, I just believe that with all this money floating about, with being one of the richest nations on the planet, the US should at least be able to provide a decent standard of healthcare to all people.

AND FOR CHRIST SAKE A LITTLE BIT OF SOCIALISM IS NOT COMMUNISM. HELPING OUT YOUR FELLOW HUMAN BEING DOESN'T MAKE YOU A COMMIE!

[curiositykilledthecat]

Isn't this the problem with your current health care system? The fact that if insurance doesn't cover it, you either die or go bankrupt?

I thank my lucky stars everyday that I can rely on the NHS to at least give me a basic level of health care with out demanding everything from my pockets.

You do realize you pay about three times what we do in taxes for your health care right?

The current Bill if it passes as written is a disaster and will bankrupt eery middleclass American. I don't have an extra $100.00 in taxes to start paying for a system that I won't have access to until 2013. All I want is a law passed that restricts an insurance companies right to service denial. I have no problem paying for insurance however due to pre-existing conditions, I can't.

We need to reform the current system as it does work for those who have it. I shouldn't have to privde money to give someone else health coverage because they refuse to take the benefit at work because they might have to cut back on cigarettes or actually live within their means. Enough with the entitlement mentality.

[AbriForm]

It's important to break down this health care bill. A lot of people think that the bill is all about a Public Option. In reality, the Public/Government Option probably won't survive to the final version of the bill, as it is not very well supported in the Senate.

The bill as it stands now would require insurance companies to not charge high premiums for people with pre-existing conditions. It would also require them to accept those customers after a certain waiting period (six months). This would prevent people from getting sick, and then buying insurance.

The bill also requires anyone that can afford insurance (as determined by the CPI and your Adjusted Gross Income) to buy healthcare. Employers have to pay a penalty if they do not provide you with healthcare coverage as part of your employment.

The main thing here is that there are some things most people will agree on in this bill. There are a lot of things that most agree don't work.

Nobody is saying we don't need reform, but having the government buy my Bambinos will result in the same condition that Europe has right now... they have better diapers than we do, you just have to take a pain pill instead of getting that life-saving operation.

I think nobody should be barred from having health insurance. But, we already have Medicaid for people who are disabled. My hope is that the bill passes without the Government Option, ensuring government doesn't force insurance companies off the table, but does require them to accept (and, not later deny claims for) less-profitable people that have pre-existing conditions.

[Pudding]

You do realize you pay about three times what we do in taxes for your health care right

I can't speak for the UK or Canada; but in Australia we have socialized healthcare (as well as government funded University Education, and a top-class benefits scheme for the unemployed)

So here's a comparison~

nb. I realize our dollar isn't exact, but as we're at ~90c:USD at the moment it's a valid enough comparison

Income Tax Brackets in Australia

Income Tax Brackets in America

What can we take away from this? Well, Australia *does* have a higher rate of taxes as a maximum rate (as high as 45% for our highest earners - but companies are locked at 30%).

*HOWEVER*

If you care to explore the chart deeper; you can see that at the ~$33,000 - ~$80,000 bracket, which will be a vast majority of the working class in both cases? The Australian rate is actually *lower* than the equivalent American bracket. Even in the next bracket, spanning ~$80,000 - ~$180,000, the Australian rate is lower in 90% of cases. And I reiterate that as well as Socialized Healthcare, we have government funded University Education, a fairly well developed system of benefits for our unemployed and disabled, and still a lower rate of infant mortality and other preventable deaths.

[loopy]

You do realize you pay about three times what we do in taxes for your health care right?

You do realize that that isn't true? Apparently you spend double per person according to the who (no not the band). Your treatments cost more (because they can get away charging insurance companies). I would really like to see sources for these so called facts.

"In 2005, the United Kingdom spent 8.2% of GDP on health care, or US$3,065 per capita. Of that, approximately 87% was government expenditure."

"In 2005, the United States spent 15.2% of GDP on health care, or US$6,347 per capita. Of that, approximately 45% was government expenditure."

Just over double per 1000 people :X http://apps.who.int/whosis/data/Search.jsp

I'm not even going to compare it to a country with a system that hasn't had years of government intervention....