Real Children

[diaperpt]

I've only got my opinion and not "THE ANSWER" like so many of you seem to have...so good that you're so certain of yourself!

I'm amused though that so many seem to flock to extremes - you've either got to spank or be your kid's best friend. It seems somewhat similar to those who say we MUST use torture...it seems to me that those who resort to violence are those who can't be bothered to think beyond it. Emotions don't get beyond the primitive brain stem!

As for getting kids to behave, a lot of good stuff has been written here...parenting is difficult even for those who make an active attempt! I think far too many biological mothers and fathers don't want to be bothered with parenting. Many others are sucked into a lot of psycho-babble and are afraid their kids won't like them. Others, as mentioned, take the easy way out and use their kids as punching bags.

Being the father of three and a school teacher for over 30 years, I've made probably far more than my share of mistakes in dealing with my own kids and with others as well - that isn't the point because we're all going to mess up. Kids not only need, but want fair, firm consistent guidelines for behavior and when they don't get it, they push harder to check the limits and force adults into giving them those guidelines. (Come on now, don't adults do the same thing in their own work situations often enough?? If the boss doesn't pay attention or seem to care, don't you tend to stretch the limits??)

Somewhere in between parents who try to live their lives through their children, try to be their kid's best friend, or afraid to discipline their kids for fear they'll cause some psychological trauma and those parents who want to spank or beat their kids into submission (oh, I don't want them to be afraid of me...just to have a healthy respect...) there is a middle ground of having standards of behavior and sticking to them.

As mentioned earlier in other posts, kids need to be disciplined differently at different ages. Different kids may need different guidelines as well, since some kids just are more willful than others. And yes, I was spanked as a kid and not a complete psychological wreck, but on the other hand, I can only remember one spanking in particular - when I was probably 5 or 6. I have spanked my own kids and I never saw anything wrong with a little smack here or there particularly in immediate reaction to an immediate situation. I DON'T believe in the idea of using it as a planned punishment after the fact. There are enough consequences you can put in motion other than physically to cause a kid to want to change their behavior.

I'm a very big fan of John Rosemond who's columns appear syndicated in many US newspapers. He's done books and probably can be found online as well. He does not go in for physical punishment at all, but is very outspoken AGAINST weak kneed, psycho-babble, or over-involved parenting. Rather he expects parents to be the adults and the kids to be kids with each being responsible for their own behavior (hmmm....strange concept, huh???). I don't always agree with absolutely everything he says and would probably have a hard time following his advice at every turn, but I do think his point of view is solid and is an excellent middle ground for parents to follow.

I do feel for the people on this site (DW, I think of you especially) who had a bad childhood and still have that tortured, abused kid inside them. I wouldn't ever advocate that we simply forget what a mess our parents might have made, I certainly wouldn't advocate just accepting it. But from the range of opinions on parenting expressed just in this thread, we might be able to at least understand our parents confusion - where spanking had been the norm, wasn't further, more brutal treatment only a step away, when now in an age where spanking has been outlawed in many places, people still do cling to the idea that it is necessary?? (And if you cling to the biblical "spare the rod and spoil the child" be sure you're ready to "stone unruly children" as well...don't eat pork...don't wear poly-cotton blended material...avoid menstruating women...and on and on - in short, don't cling to the quotes in the bible you WANT to use to support what you already think and feel, cling to ALL of it!! - and this opinion brought to you by an ordained minister in a 'mainline' church).

At some point, we need to forgive ourselves for the damage we've caused our kids and as hard as it will be for many, we need to forgive our parents for their own messed up parenting, or non-parenting - not for their sake, and we don't need to re-establish relationships or believe they are/were good people. We need to forgive them in order to release ourselves from the negative feelings and effects of the bitterness they brought about. ...a LOT easier to say than to do, by the way!

OK...sorry for the rant...I'm done now...back to YOUR opinions...

[justagirl4fun]

Many countries have outlawed spanking altogether, and well geee they dont have nearly the social problems the united states has....

You have any evidence to prove that spanking is causing our social problems? Because I don't buy it. I think there's a LOT more that goes into it than that. Besides...you think parents in other countries don't spank just because it's against the law?

That said, I'm all for spanking, but in extreme situations. For example, one day, when I was a nanny, the little girl I was watching (about 1 1/2 at the time) continuously went over to an outlet and tried to unplug a lamp. First two times I picked her up, moved her away, and gave her a loud "NO!" Didn't do anything to stop the behavior. I'm not comfortable spanking another person's child (but in a similar situation would have NO problem spanking my own if I had them) but I did slap her hand...not hard enough to cause injury, but enough to hurt...along with the moving away and "NO!" Guess what? She didn't try to do it anymore. At that age kids don't understand you saying "If you play with the plug, you're gonna get shocked" (or "if you go in the street without holding my hand you could get hit by a car" or whatever the situation is) but they do remember being spanked for the behavior and it often is enough to keep them from doing it again. I certainly wouldn't spank a kid for not doing chores, cleaning their room, stuff like that, but if it will discourage them from engaging in dangerous behaviors, I'm OK with it. Better a sore bottom for a few minutes than dead...

[Vic]

You have any evidence to prove that spanking is causing our social problems? Because I don't buy it. I think there's a LOT more that goes into it than that. Besides...you think parents in other countries don't spank just because it's against the law?

That said, I'm all for spanking, but in extreme situations. For example, one day, when I was a nanny, the little girl I was watching (about 1 1/2 at the time) continuously went over to an outlet and tried to unplug a lamp. First two times I picked her up, moved her away, and gave her a loud "NO!" Didn't do anything to stop the behavior. I'm not comfortable spanking another person's child (but in a similar situation would have NO problem spanking my own if I had them) but I did slap her hand...not hard enough to cause injury, but enough to hurt...along with the moving away and "NO!" Guess what? She didn't try to do it anymore. At that age kids don't understand you saying "If you play with the plug, you're gonna get shocked" (or "if you go in the street without holding my hand you could get hit by a car" or whatever the situation is) but they do remember being spanked for the behavior and it often is enough to keep them from doing it again. I certainly wouldn't spank a kid for not doing chores, cleaning their room, stuff like that, but if it will discourage them from engaging in dangerous behaviors, I'm OK with it. Better a sore bottom for a few minutes than dead...

I don't want people to think that I'm opposed to spanking, as I never said that, what I did say is that it's not the only way to discipline a child. Toddlers push the limits all the time as they are gaining a sense of independence, yet they want to know that there are boundaries too, this shows them that even though they ARE becoming more independent that you are still looking after them.

I have spanked kids, more so when they were babes and just removing them from the situation with a firm "NO" didn't work, but always with my hand and with an age appropriate strength to the actual swats on the hand or behind that they got. As they grew older though I found methods of disciplining a child that were better than corporal punishment, and so far I've had success with these other methods.

I do speak out against abuse, (having suffered through it myself), but I'm equally pissed with parents who can't be bothered with raising their children correctly, or those idiots who think that if they discipline their kids that the kids won't like them. in essence, the mamby-pambies, and the slothful (like the alcoholics and drug addicts, or the ones who leave it to the schools, TV, and video games to be their kids role models) they should never be allowed to breed in the first place. Abusive parents should go to prison, no doubt in my mind, but those who refuse to raise their children to the best of their ability should as well.

There is no "one size fits all" to parenting, and the only guarantee that you'll get is that you will make mistakes, it's inevetible. However, if you really try and be a good parent, your kids will come through it and be okay. Nobody can fully prepare their kids for what is out there, it's a rough old world, but we can give them the tools they need to make their own future if we are the best parents that we can be.

Peace,

Vic

[Aoi]

I don't mind children, as long as they are well behaved.

However, I'd never have any of my own, but I don't have a problem being around them.

[sarah_ab]

I don't mind children, as long as they are well behaved.

However, I'd never have any of my own, but I don't have a problem being around them.

i love kids... as long as i cna give them back to the parents ....

[fluff]

ive gotten slowly better around kids over the past couple weeks after much abuse at work about how i deal with our clients with young children...

but im still not sure...

[curiositykilledthecat]

Well at least the fighting has stopped. I love small children, babies and such. thye have such a innocence to them. Unaware of the corruption and futility of life. No matter how shitty my day is I can't help but smile when I see a young child. I guess you see so much hope and potential in the,. Then they become teenagers and completely retarded.

[darkdj08]

Now i very rarely take the time to rad a full thread. But what the hell is this thread doing hear in the first place? A Fetish Forum is no place to be talking about children.

And as for you 2 guys that fanny yourselves cannibals, i realize you were being sarcastic but maybe you need guys need to see a psychotherapist as that's the sickest joke I've ever herd.

And the rest of you well i doubt I'm qualified to make any sort of judgment.

[loopy]

Now i very rarely take the time to rad a full thread. But what the hell is this thread doing hear in the first place? A Fetish Forum is no place to be talking about children.

And as for you 2 guys that fanny yourselves cannibals, i realize you were being sarcastic but maybe you need guys need to see a psychotherapist as that's the sickest joke I've ever herd.

And the rest of you well i doubt I'm qualified to make any sort of judgment.

From your post you're not qualified to make a judgment on those you did. Try reading the thread.... its a topic that's interesting to me and quite a few people from the amount of replies its garnered.

Ah shit, sorry, I have a weird kink, I'm not allowed near children then.

[Yvhuce]

And as for you 2 guys that fanny yourselves cannibals, i realize you were being sarcastic but maybe you need guys need to see a psychotherapist as that's the sickest joke I've ever herd.

You don't get out much, do you? Hell... I'm a reclusive person and I've heard far worse jokes than those...

[curiositykilledthecat]

Why is this thread still going?

[OMFG]

I don't have kids, and I was never beaten as a child. I was, however, spanked on occasion. I can probably count on two hands the number of times.

I don't think spanking is abuse, but I also don't think it's necessary.

A spanking lasts under a minute, and then the punishment is over and the slate is clean. The child has not really learned that X behavior is wrong. They've learned not to get caught when they're doing X. I compare this to photo radar speed enforcement. I have had a few photo radar tickets. I pay them online in under a minute, and they don't really deter me from speeding. I just don't speed more than 14 km/h over the speed limit in areas where the photo radar vans are known to sit.

"Not getting hit" isn't really a child's currency. Kid currency is different depending on the kid, but includes things like video games, bike riding, stories, phone privileges, parental approval, weekly allowance, etc. My big lever as a kid was parental approval. Hearing my mom say she was disappointed in me was about the worst punishment I could get. It was worse than any physical punishment that my parents ever could have dealt me. I also didn't like being left out of things, so being sent to sit in my room to think about what I'd done while everyone else was in the living room watching tv or whatever was pretty rough for me, and I had a TV in my room.

Often when I see kids getting spanked, it's because the parents are too lazy to discipline them in other ways. A spanking takes less than a minute, but actually discussing the behavior with the child, then following up with making sure they don't play video games for the next week takes time and effort.

I also find the parents who do the most spanking are also the ones who focus on what the kid is doing wrong instead of guiding them into correct behavior. Kids aren't born knowing right from wrong. They learn it from their parents. Loving, involved parenting teaches empathy. Empathy leads to being concerned about how your actions affect those around you. Let's look at the "running around the coffee shop making a mess" example. If the parent smacks the kid's butt and tells them to "stop running around and making a mess", the kid only learns that he's not supposed to be caught running around and knocking things off shelves. If the parent stops the kid and says, "Hey now, these nice people are trying to enjoy their coffee, and the nice lady who makes the coffee doesn't want to have to pick all of this up. Let's pick it up, then go sit nicely in chairs and drink our hot chocolate", the kid learns that his behavior is negatively impacting other people, and has then taken steps to rectify (cleaning up). That would take more time and patience from a parent, but be more valuable to the child in the long term.

The final thing I'd like to say is that I think many parents put their kids in positions where they can't be successful. Children need sleep and good nutrition. If you deprive your 2 year old of his afternoon nap, then give him some candy to keep him quiet for a bit, I don't think it's really fair to then expect him to sit still in a cart at the grocery store and not be cranky and whiney.

[paradox]

Now i very rarely take the time to rad a full thread. But what the hell is this thread doing hear in the first place? A Fetish Forum is no place to be talking about children.

And as for you 2 guys that fanny yourselves cannibals, i realize you were being sarcastic but maybe you need guys need to see a psychotherapist as that's the sickest joke I've ever herd.

And the rest of you well i doubt I'm qualified to make any sort of judgment.

If thats not funny then your not eating children correctly. I got a great recipe for you. First find a big pot (the bigger the better for the fatter children) season with garlic salt, chives, onions and let stew for a few hours. Dice up some fresh veggies, maybe a lil parsley for good effect then serve over noodles or with a big hunk of french bread. oh dont forget to add some potatoes. I call it tater tot stew! You can go either way with how to prepare the child, some prefer to gut the innards out, I think if you leave it all in though you get more nutrients. Bon apitite' (or whatever the french say)

[curiositykilledthecat]

If thats not funny then your not eating children correctly. I got a great recipe for you. First find a big pot (the bigger the better for the fatter children) season with garlic salt, chives, onions and let stew for a few hours. Dice up some fresh veggies, maybe a lil parsley for good effect then serve over noodles or with a big hunk of french bread. oh dont forget to add some potatoes. I call it tater tot stew! You can go either way with how to prepare the child, some prefer to gut the innards out, I think if you leave it all in though you get more nutrients. Bon apitite' (or whatever the french say)

Win!

[freswith]

Now i very rarely take the time to rad a full thread. But what the hell is this thread doing hear in the first place? A Fetish Forum is no place to be talking about children.

And as for you 2 guys that fanny yourselves cannibals, i realize you were being sarcastic but maybe you need guys need to see a psychotherapist as that's the sickest joke I've ever herd.

And the rest of you well i doubt I'm qualified to make any sort of judgment.

Oh Boy, you really are a mixed-up kid! Of course it's a joke. A little humour acts as a tracklement to an overly pious thread.

To add my three ha'pence, the correct wine to complement the mild taste of roast child is a light and subtle white wine, served chilled. Apple sauce goes nicely as well, and you might choose a good, strong English mustard.

You will probably be doing lots of porridge later, anyway.

[rusty pins]

One cannibal to the other: "Boy, your wife sure makes good soup!" "Yeah", said the second cannibal, "but I'm sure going to miss her!"

Two cannibals decide to have dinner together. One starts at the head and the other starts at the feet. The first one says, "How are you enjoying it?" The second one says, "Great! I'm having a ball!" The first one says, "Slow down! Your eating too fast!"

[OMFG]

A cannibal had his mother over for dinner one night. She was complaining that she didn't like his friends, so he told her to try the vegetables.

[Yvhuce]

A spanking lasts under a minute, and then the punishment is over and the slate is clean. The child has not really learned that X behavior is wrong. They've learned not to get caught when they're doing X. I compare this to photo radar speed enforcement. I have had a few photo radar tickets. I pay them online in under a minute, and they don't really deter me from speeding. I just don't speed more than 14 km/h over the speed limit in areas where the photo radar vans are known to sit.

Don't come crying to us if they take your license away. I hate speeders. Repeat offenders should have to drive old junker cars that can berely reach the speed limit in the first place.

And spanking in under a minute?! As they say on Mythbusters: "Well there's your problem!"... A proper spanking lasts several minutes and leaves the kid's butt sore for about half an hour or so and them in tears. This is supposed to be done when the kid has not responded to explanations of what they're doing is wrong and have been given at least 3 chances to stop what they're doing (these may include groundings from things, as well), with full knowledge that if they keep it up, they're going to get their butt whupped.

[Guest Diapered Jeff]

I hope I won't spoil the conversation, but I do get a little uncomfortable hanging around my cousins daughters. I never know what to say to them, nor do I have any prior experience giving children advice. Her oldest daughter is the one I talk to most, and like any good adult who's hanging around children, I filter a lot of what I say to her, but I avoid using "cutesy" words. I talk to her like she were already a grown young woman, and if there's a word she doesn't understand, I try my best to explain it to her.

What made me especially uncomfortable was before my cousin's youngest daughter was still in diapers. I remember every time she was being changed, I HAD to go outside. This was also when I was still a heavy smoker, so of course I used that as an excuse to step outside. It's not that I had any bad thoughts (I would NEVER do anything to harm those two girls, I would rather die than harm them in any way), but my cousin does know of my diaper fetish (I told her when we were much younger, and before she got married), so I didn't want her making any comments about it. To my surprise, she never did, but I was always fearful she would make a comment about it like "Jeff, you should be used to this!" or "Jeff, does this remind you of anything?" in front of the rest of the family that knows I don't have children, so it would have been rather awkward.

[OMFG]

Don't come crying to us if they take your license away. I hate speeders. Repeat offenders should have to drive old junker cars that can berely reach the speed limit in the first place.

And spanking in under a minute?! As they say on Mythbusters: "Well there's your problem!"... A proper spanking lasts several minutes and leaves the kid's butt sore for about half an hour or so and them in tears. This is supposed to be done when the kid has not responded to explanations of what they're doing is wrong and have been given at least 3 chances to stop what they're doing (these may include groundings from things, as well), with full knowledge that if they keep it up, they're going to get their butt whupped.

They won't take my license. It's photo radar. I pay my little fine and it's like it never happened. That's entirely my point. If a cop pulled me over and gave me a ticket that resulted in demeirts on my license and the threat of losing it, I would be more inclined to stop speeding.

Also, I think a spanking that lasts several minutes is starting to head to abuse. I would not be comfortable doing that to a child.

[curiositykilledthecat]

They won't take my license. It's photo radar. I pay my little fine and it's like it never happened. That's entirely my point. If a cop pulled me over and gave me a ticket that resulted in demeirts on my license and the threat of losing it, I would be more inclined to stop speeding.

Also, I think a spanking that lasts several minutes is starting to head to abuse. I would not be comfortable doing that to a child.

open hand spanking i'm okay with, it's when the hand becomes a fist that i toss the penalty flag.

[OMFG]

open hand spanking i'm okay with, it's when the hand becomes a fist that i toss the penalty flag.

But for several minutes? Go set your stove timer for 3 minutes. Use your open palm to spank your bare thigh continuously until the timer goes off. 3 minutes is an awfully long time for a spanking. I don't think the point of a spanking, if you're going to spank, should be to cause prolonged pain. It is to get the child's attention and reinforce the message that their behavior is incorrect.

[rusty pins]

No, a 3 minute spanking with an open palm is way too much. A spanking with an open palm should just be long enough to get the message across, usually no more that 4 or 5 swats on the butt, not really hard swats either. When kids are younger, it's not so much the stinging from a spanking that gets their attention but the surprise at being spanked and diciplined. The definition of a punnishment is somthing that a kid or person dosn't like. That's why some punnishments don't work at all. For example, if you send a kid to his room and don't let him watch TV, that's only a punnishment if his favorite TV show was comming on and he couldn't bare to miss it. Otherwise he might just think, "Good! There's nothing on TV that I want to watch anyway and in my room I can play with a game or something". Same thing goes for spanking a child. Sometimes they will do anything to avoid a spanking (spanking, not a beating!) Other kids may not be bothered at all by a spanking. You have to find a means of punnishment that works, even if it's making the kid stay home from a planned camping trip he had been looking forward to, visit to a relative or friend or a trip to the toy store with his dad and siblings. The punnishment should also be on the level of the "crime". Grounding a kid for a month because he knocked a vase off the table when playing ball inside the house is way too excessive. Likewise, if the kid steals something from a store or beats up a little kid just because he wants to, then sending him to bed without his dessert is hardly enough punnishment for the deed that was done (and I would severly question anyone's parenting skills or lack of skills if they had a kid that acts this way).

[loopy]

But for several minutes? Go set your stove timer for 3 minutes. Use your open palm to spank your bare thigh continuously until the timer goes off. 3 minutes is an awfully long time for a spanking. I don't think the point of a spanking, if you're going to spank, should be to cause prolonged pain. It is to get the child's attention and reinforce the message that their behavior is incorrect.

This.

A Spanking should be more about Shock and Awe, instead of a prolonged engagement... Make them realize you mean it, and that they're in big trouble, that's all you need.

[BabyJune]

Since all of my experience with children is taking care of other people's, I would never dare hit a child. What I have done and it is effective is, grab their arm firmly (without injuring them) and make them face me. Then I get down on their eye level, look at them and tell them what it is they've done that is wrong and let them know that I expect they won't do it again. I also let them know that 1) I'm only angry with what they've done and not mad at THEM and 2) I discipline them so that they will not repeat the action. I've always told groups of children that when it seems like I'm yelling, it is only to get their attention; that as long as I'm smilling, I'm not mad. They do listen because one day I was hollering about something (at summer camp) and a couple of girls remarked, "He's not really mad 'cause he's smiling." Of course my age group is all undeer eight years old. Teens and 'tweens are another story.