Stubborn Continence

[DAQ]

I have posted before about a stuborn lack of progress in my goal towards incontinence. Any time I feel like I make any progress I end up two steps back.

Has anyone else been in a situation where they spent months/years with little to no progress and now have a degree of incontinence? What changed? What changes did you make or something happen to speed up your progress?

[MLDK]

I can only testify that I have spent years on untraining / training towards incontinence, closing in on a decade.

just drinking loads of water and relaxing won’t do anything. Drinking loads of water helps train the bladder to hold more, and every time you are not focused, the pelvic floor muscles tenses up.

I have after years of trying the above process to no avail, taken another approach, and that is limiting fluid intake while actively provoking my bladder to release. The goal is to shrink the bladder capacity.

results so far, waking up several times during the night because I need to pee. Only recently begun to stay in bed, relax and let it happen in my diaper, and quickly drift back to sleep, goal is to introduce consistent bedwetting, and from there continue towards daytime incontinence 

[babykeiff]

@DAQ

in simple terms, you are trying to revert to same bladder and bowel voiding behaviour you had as a baby. That was a habit that toilet training taught you to break - and as with all habits, you are an ex-baby. This is an advantage and a disadvantage - the advantage is that your mind already knows how to ues a diaper exclusively, but the disadvantage is that your mind also knows the benifits of a toilet as opposed to a diaper. Toilets, when you use them (well most of them) do not leak and make you uncomfortable. Diapers, at times, leak, and a messy one can make you uncomfortable if it is not changed before a rash develops.

As a result, you, like @MLDK and others that are wanting to revert to exclusive autonomic diaper usage, it is not the body or your conscious you need to convince - it is your subconscious mind - the one that controls all the muscles in relation to voiding.

Increasing the quantity of water you drink helps, but what also helps is you trusting in your diaper. A baby does not care what is in its diaper - it is the parent / guardian that takes care of it for the baby. A baby also does not know that a toilet exists, and has been trained to use its diaper from birth. In relation to that training, a parent/guardian tells the baby that it is good for filling its diaper - you need to do that for yourself.

In other posts, I suggested a butt layered with diaper cream, a thick cloth diaper (similar in proportion to a newborn and its diaper) covered with plastic / rubber pants. Over that, a onesie / clothes. The reasons for the diaper cream is that one can easily forget if/when one messed a diaper. The reason the diaper is so thick is that as one is wearing it, one has to waddle (similar to that of a baby), one cannot distinguish between a wet diaper or a sweaty diaper. Changing on a time schedule - when you wake, before bed - and soon you will not care the state of your diaper - as it doesn't matter - it will be changed at those times.

The whole concept is for your mind to make the decision - is it easier, more comfortable and costs less energy to void at will, or will doing so cause issues. As soon as your subconscious mind makes that decision, it will revert back to voiding as you were a baby.

Some people try to increase water content, and try to keep themselves in a constant state of relaxation. For these people, it works, but they are not doing what @MLDK is doing - checking to see if they are incontinent. That act of checking is forcing conscious control on the sphincters, something that you are trying to avoid. Remember, blood is filtered 24/7/365 which equates that urine is produced constantly. The strength (water content vs others) of urine is based on the water balance in the body. Drinking more water will fill the bladder faster, and therefore, one will need to void more often. 

In order of gaining baby bladder/bowel behaviour -

• First comes unexpected voiding OR more came out than you expected. You still feel the need to void, but ignore that.
• The frequency of voiding increases while the duration between voidings decrease and the volume of each void decreases. = Wetting more often at lower quanties.
• Finding diapers wet and can't recall when you wet it - but still believe that you can keep your pants dry. Actually, without a potty / toilet within 1 minute from where you are, you will end up in wet pants.
• Still feeling the need to void, but have nothing to void
• Forgetting that you have a diaper on, convinced that it is underwear and embarrasing onself by answering the door in just a diaper / diaper and top.
• Changing the diaper on a schedule, and finding that it is soaked all the time - and not ever recalling the feeling of a dry diaper.

Bowel control follows suit if ones diet is similar to what is described elsewhere on the site. Overnight, bowel control is poor to non existant. This is due to laziness - you have just changed / are going to change and need to poop, so you just do it in the diaper rather than remove a functional diaper just to sit on the toilet. Afterall, you are going to have a shower.

Pooping a diaper is, at the start, all about choice - you have just woke up and do not want to take off a warm diaper just to sit on the toilet - after all, you are hungry and want food. It is easy to change your diaper after the morning shower. What has really happened is that your need to poop has woken you early. You are no longer waking from a full bladder as the body has long stopped reducing the water content being oplaced in your bladder overnight - as a result, you always wake up warm and wet, but unaware of when you wet it. You may have some pee-pee dreams, but over time, they will go.

Conclusion;

If you want the bladder & bowel control of a baby, you have to convince yourself, and believe in yourself that is what you want. Try saying this to yourself "I am a good baby, and good babies wet and mess in their diapers all the time" on a constant basis. When you are changing your diaper, congratulate yourself for wetting and messing in it. As you fall asleep, repeat similar to yourself. Do not be disapointed in yourself when you feel that you need to wet / mess. Be happy in yourself that you are doing that. - and most of all, stop checking yourself to see if you are incontinent.

Diaper usage is a habit that you temporarily stopped - so there is nothing new for you to learn.

[feralfreak]

ive spent a lot of time wishing i would get back to at least more frequent wetting in my sleep, i go months if not longer waking up annoyingly dry, its good when one isnt in a diaper but when i go to bed i put one on as sleep insurance, and most of the time every 3-5 days im tossing a diaper away dry(i wear them again until they fall apart, get itchy, or some other reason forces me to change, with our finances the way they are i try to make them last as long as i can). i pray that God lets me wake up wet, id like to have that happen at least a few times a month, instead of months between even a slight accident(except for when i get sick, then i get an accident i DONT want, , cough cough uh oh! yuck!)

[MLDK]

15 hours ago, babykeiff said:

@DAQ

in simple terms, you are trying to revert to same bladder and bowel voiding behaviour you had as a baby. That was a habit that toilet training taught you to break - and as with all habits, you are an ex-baby. This is an advantage and a disadvantage - the advantage is that your mind already knows how to ues a diaper exclusively, but the disadvantage is that your mind also knows the benifits of a toilet as opposed to a diaper. Toilets, when you use them (well most of them) do not leak and make you uncomfortable. Diapers, at times, leak, and a messy one can make you uncomfortable if it is not changed before a rash develops.

As a result, you, like @MLDK and others that are wanting to revert to exclusive autonomic diaper usage, it is not the body or your conscious you need to convince - it is your subconscious mind - the one that controls all the muscles in relation to voiding.

Increasing the quantity of water you drink helps, but what also helps is you trusting in your diaper. A baby does not care what is in its diaper - it is the parent / guardian that takes care of it for the baby. A baby also does not know that a toilet exists, and has been trained to use its diaper from birth. In relation to that training, a parent/guardian tells the baby that it is good for filling its diaper - you need to do that for yourself.

In other posts, I suggested a butt layered with diaper cream, a thick cloth diaper (similar in proportion to a newborn and its diaper) covered with plastic / rubber pants. Over that, a onesie / clothes. The reasons for the diaper cream is that one can easily forget if/when one messed a diaper. The reason the diaper is so thick is that as one is wearing it, one has to waddle (similar to that of a baby), one cannot distinguish between a wet diaper or a sweaty diaper. Changing on a time schedule - when you wake, before bed - and soon you will not care the state of your diaper - as it doesn't matter - it will be changed at those times.

The whole concept is for your mind to make the decision - is it easier, more comfortable and costs less energy to void at will, or will doing so cause issues. As soon as your subconscious mind makes that decision, it will revert back to voiding as you were a baby.

Some people try to increase water content, and try to keep themselves in a constant state of relaxation. For these people, it works, but they are not doing what @MLDK is doing - checking to see if they are incontinent. That act of checking is forcing conscious control on the sphincters, something that you are trying to avoid. Remember, blood is filtered 24/7/365 which equates that urine is produced constantly. The strength (water content vs others) of urine is based on the water balance in the body. Drinking more water will fill the bladder faster, and therefore, one will need to void more often. 

In order of gaining baby bladder/bowel behaviour -

• First comes unexpected voiding OR more came out than you expected. You still feel the need to void, but ignore that.
• The frequency of voiding increases while the duration between voidings decrease and the volume of each void decreases. = Wetting more often at lower quanties.
• Finding diapers wet and can't recall when you wet it - but still believe that you can keep your pants dry. Actually, without a potty / toilet within 1 minute from where you are, you will end up in wet pants.
• Still feeling the need to void, but have nothing to void
• Forgetting that you have a diaper on, convinced that it is underwear and embarrasing onself by answering the door in just a diaper / diaper and top.
• Changing the diaper on a schedule, and finding that it is soaked all the time - and not ever recalling the feeling of a dry diaper.

Bowel control follows suit if ones diet is similar to what is described elsewhere on the site. Overnight, bowel control is poor to non existant. This is due to laziness - you have just changed / are going to change and need to poop, so you just do it in the diaper rather than remove a functional diaper just to sit on the toilet. Afterall, you are going to have a shower.

Pooping a diaper is, at the start, all about choice - you have just woke up and do not want to take off a warm diaper just to sit on the toilet - after all, you are hungry and want food. It is easy to change your diaper after the morning shower. What has really happened is that your need to poop has woken you early. You are no longer waking from a full bladder as the body has long stopped reducing the water content being oplaced in your bladder overnight - as a result, you always wake up warm and wet, but unaware of when you wet it. You may have some pee-pee dreams, but over time, they will go.

Conclusion;

If you want the bladder & bowel control of a baby, you have to convince yourself, and believe in yourself that is what you want. Try saying this to yourself "I am a good baby, and good babies wet and mess in their diapers all the time" on a constant basis. When you are changing your diaper, congratulate yourself for wetting and messing in it. As you fall asleep, repeat similar to yourself. Do not be disapointed in yourself when you feel that you need to wet / mess. Be happy in yourself that you are doing that. - and most of all, stop checking yourself to see if you are incontinent.

Diaper usage is a habit that you temporarily stopped - so there is nothing new for you to learn.

I think you got my message wrong!

I’m not constantly  hacking my status, I don’t need to do that. What I’m saying is basically the mythical 12month program does not work, sure by following it, you pee a lot, but it doesn’t bring you towards genuine incontinence. Maybe you should read up on the subject, incontinence.

incontinence is not just wetting without a thought, it’s loss of body control, either by strong urge, stress I.e. weak pelvic floor or a combination.

im focusing on the urge incontinence by working towards overactive bladder / shrinking my bladder. You definitely don’t shrink your bladder by drinking loads of water, that does the opposite, like I said in my reply.

[babykeiff]

On 12/15/2022 at 5:41 AM, feralfreak said:

ive spent a lot of time wishing i would get back to at least more frequent wetting in my sleep, i go months if not longer waking up annoyingly dry, its good when one isnt in a diaper but when i go to bed i put one on as sleep insurance, and most of the time every 3-5 days im tossing a diaper away dry(i wear them again until they fall apart, get itchy, or some other reason forces me to change, with our finances the way they are i try to make them last as long as i can). i pray that God lets me wake up wet, id like to have that happen at least a few times a month, instead of months between even a slight accident(except for when i get sick, then i get an accident i DONT want, , cough cough uh oh! yuck!)

Get some cloth diapers - they can last a long time dry. Second, as I said on other posts, it is all about self belief - that is you fully believe that you need to put the diaper on at night as it will be wet in the morning. Repeat that to yourself as you are putting the diaper on, and as you are lying in bed. In reality, it is about subcontious control, and while asleep, your mind will decide that it is easier to wet the diaper than to create argininie vasprosessin to reduce water content in bladder. If, on normal sleep times, this is still not working for you deprive yourself of sleep by decreasing you sleeping time. This will force the subcontious mind to agree with your conscious wish to become a bedwetter - and will wet the diaper rather than wake you and disturb your sleep.

... or you can try another process - the process employed by care homes, where they diaper their patients, keep them in bed, feed them, wash them, change them etc so that their mind reverts to the time that they were treated like same.

[oznl]

On 12/14/2022 at 4:32 AM, DAQ said:

I have posted before about a stuborn lack of progress in my goal towards incontinence. Any time I feel like I make any progress I end up two steps back.

Has anyone else been in a situation where they spent months/years with little to no progress and now have a degree of incontinence? What changed? What changes did you make or something happen to speed up your progress?

I've avoided practicing urinary continence for nearly 4 years.  Whilst I have abnormal voiding (high frequency/low volume/post-void dripping) and I also have what looks like an over-active bladder (if I try to hold, some stimuli such as running water may force an accident now), I remain aware of when I am peeing and at some reason, the decision to pee (outside of an OAB incident) is mine.  I could get by without nappies if I was careful but it would be rather inconvenient.

What HAS appeared is intermittent bedwetting.

I don't think that my daytime control is necessarily at some kind of fixed "end state" however.  My learnings to date is that changes DO happen but I tend to only see them in retrospect (AFTER they have established themselves) and they often only appear after very long periods of stasis.  The latest change that seems to be lurking in the shadows is me losing insight into when I last used my nappies.  I find myself simply not recalling.

On 12/14/2022 at 5:44 AM, MLDK said:

Only recently begun to stay in bed, relax and let it happen in my diaper, and quickly drift back to sleep, goal is to introduce consistent bedwetting, and from there continue towards daytime incontinence 

This behavior DEFINITELY evolved into genuine bedwetting in my case.  It's still fickle, prone to disappearing for days or even a week at a time but it always comes back and over time, very slowly, it's becoming more frequent.  At least I *think* it is.  I'm always wet at night and the receding insight into my own nappy use is making it harder to tell.  One thing I DO know is that my bladder is usually near-empty when I wake in the morning now.

I'd have to say, the first time I absolutely realised that I had 100% wet the bed, it was quite a psychological shock.

17 hours ago, feralfreak said:

ive spent a lot of time wishing i would get back to at least more frequent wetting in my sleep, i go months if not longer waking up annoyingly dry, its good when one isnt in a diaper but when i go to bed i put one on as sleep insurance, and most of the time every 3-5 days im tossing a diaper away dry(i wear them again until they fall apart, get itchy, or some other reason forces me to change, with our finances the way they are i try to make them last as long as i can). i pray that God lets me wake up wet, id like to have that happen at least a few times a month, instead of months between even a slight accident(except for when i get sick, then i get an accident i DONT want, , cough cough uh oh! yuck!)

Could I make one suggestion (really, it's TWO suggestions):

1. Go to bed well-hydrated and after a daytime pattern of well established frequent voiding (empty your bladder ever time you think of it, every 15m or so).

2. Go to bed wet already (you don't need to be soaked, just noticeably damp is fine)

My own bedwetting evolved out of having at least one nocturnal "opportunity" to pee in bed arising and a slow habituation to less and less waking needed to do this.

My daytime high frequency voiding pattern saw my nocturnal "wake to pee" incidents rise from maybe once, to probably 3 - 5 times now.  I don't leak because the volume of any one pee is quite low.

In the early transitional stages, I noticed that sleep-wetting events only occurred when I was wet anyway.  It was like I had some kind of subconscious permission.

Over time, those "training wheels" of being wet anyway were no longer needed.  I can now sleep-wet from dry.

I do agree with something @babykeiff said but for a slightly different reason.  Cloth diapers help a LOT but how I found them to help was that they almost never leak in bed.  Worrying about leaking for me was a 100% antidote to sleep-wetting, at least during the establishment phase.  Once bedwetting became established, I've since found out I don't even need to wear a nappy at all for it to happen now ?  If you can't handle cloth diapers, I've found that absorbent-lined waterproof pants worn over a disposable will do a similar job.  They will mop out the almost-inevitable minor leaks that come from sleep-wetting in a disposable.

3 hours ago, MLDK said:

I’m not constantly  hacking my status, I don’t need to do that. What I’m saying is basically the mythical 12month program does not work, sure by following it, you pee a lot, but it doesn’t bring you towards genuine incontinence. Maybe you should read up on the subject, incontinence.

I honestly don't know if it will EVER work but if it does, my own lived evidence and that of a trusted cohort is that it takes a LOT longer than 12 months.

[babykeiff]

15 hours ago, oznl said:

... I could get by without nappies if I was careful....

@oznl, I somehow doubt that - if your body has reverted to wetting nappies, it would be difficult to impossible to get by without them. Your lack of recal of when you last used your nappies is all about how and why the information is being stored. Your subconcious mind is aware, but since your conscious mind doesn't need to know, since your subconscious trusts the nappies, it doesn't tell it. As a result, remembering when you wet is difficult. Your conscious mind is still, at times, aware of your wetting - and 'thinks' that the subconscious mind is storing that information. - it is not, as there is no need.

This is also the issue you are facing overnight. Night wetting is all about vasopressin production. Reduced or no vasopressin production and the bladder fills and empties. High vasopressin production, and the bladder does not fill overnight. As a result, you do not wet those nights. Increasing water intake will ensure that the bladder needs to empty overnight. You might partially wake - conscious mind - with a need to wet, but if the nappy is partially wet, the conscious mind only partially wakes you - and you will wet overnight. Adding noisy plastic undersheet coated with baby powder creates roughly the same environment as a baby - which should lull you into beliving that you don't need to wake to void.

The daytime behaviour of wetting almost constantly / without recall, tends to shrink the bladder which does affect overnight capacity even with argininie vasprosessin production. As a result, in agreement with @oznl, increased frequency, low volumn daytime wetting does create night wetting, but one might wake / partially wake, so a warm damp night time diaper should increase bedwetting - i.e. keep you asleep while wetting. 

What one is trying to recreate is the same habit one had as a baby - wetting / messing without even realising one is doing it and/or caring about the consequense. A baby is not incontinent so to speak - it is aware of its need to void, but ignores that due to being trained to self sate any and all of its needs. Toilet training / post toilet training and parents teach the baby (now child) to supress its needs - suckling (bottle / thumb / pacifier), voiding at whim, etc.

[babykeiff]

14 hours ago, oznl said:

...I honestly don't know if it will EVER work but if it does, my own lived evidence and that of a trusted cohort is that it takes a LOT longer than 12 months.

The "12 Month Program" as identifed by others, is only a guide to create an ideal environment for the mind and body to revert to baby voiding. How well / fast it works for a person is based on the individual, and how willing they are to accept it. 

If one reads, and follows the steps of, lets say Bernard Arnult, Elon Musk, Bill Gates etc., one might become a multimillionaire OR one might just fall flat on their face. Nothing is 100% guarenteed in this world, but one can create the ideal environment.

[spark]

On 12/15/2022 at 3:44 PM, oznl said:

I've avoided practicing urinary continence for nearly 4 years.  Whilst I have abnormal voiding (high frequency/low volume/post-void dripping) and I also have what looks like an over-active bladder (if I try to hold, some stimuli such as running water may force an accident now), I remain aware of when I am peeing and at some reason, the decision to pee (outside of an OAB incident) is mine.  I could get by without nappies if I was careful but it would be rather inconvenient.

I don't think that my daytime control is necessarily at some kind of fixed "end state" however.  My learnings to date is that changes DO happen but I tend to only see them in retrospect (AFTER they have established themselves) and they often only appear after very long periods of stasis.  The latest change that seems to be lurking in the shadows is me losing insight into when I last used my nappies.  I find myself simply not recalling.

I'm in a similar situation to you.  I think we've probably had about the same amount of time avoiding urinary continence as you, because we've been posting about the same amount.

When I travelled in 2019 I was already on my journey to incontinence.  I went to Norway and Vietnam for 18 days, and packed enough diapers to be diapered on every flight (I had a little exposure issue at Doha airport.   I wore Pull-Ups most days and nights, and I didn't use them- except a few times.  For the most part- I was mostly continent for the whole trip, because even on the flight, I was regulating my urine out.   I flew from Oakland to Oslo with a five-hour layover in Paris in the same diaper.  I used the same diaper from Oslo to Saigon (I changed at the airport).   I don't trust Pull Ups, and I'm not a heavy sleeper- so I just wear them just in case.

This summer I went to the Northwest USA (Portland and Seattle) for two weeks and a very short trip to Denver.   Both of these were sleeper cars in private roomettes.  The Denver trip was short enough that I could pack enough diapers to last the entire trip, but I had to use Pull Ups in Seattle.   I ended up with a Pull Up failure and leaked.  Fortunately I was able to take care of it without anybody noticing. 

At this point, I've lost most of my continence during the day with urine.  Even when I moderate my output, I get weak streams.  I have multiple leaks during they day.  I wear one at work, and try not to flood at work, but now I need boosters to last the full day.  

BTW- before I started this journey, my continence level was very high.    I  could hold my bladder to point of pain, and when I did go- it was a good stream.  I literally put out a small fire.  I could also pee on demand if I needed (which I still can), and stop mid-stream if I needed (which I can't anymore).

[DAQ]

3 hours ago, spark said:

When I travelled in 2019 I was already on my journey to incontinence.  I went to Norway and Vietnam for 18 days, and packed enough diapers to be diapered on every flight (I had a little exposure issue at Doha airport.   I wore Pull-Ups most days and nights, and I didn't use them- except a few times.  For the most part- I was mostly continent for the whole trip, because even on the flight, I was regulating my urine out.   I flew from Oakland to Oslo with a five-hour layover in Paris in the same diaper.  I used the same diaper from Oslo to Saigon (I changed at the airport).   I don't trust Pull Ups, and I'm not a heavy sleeper- so I just wear them just in case.

This summer I went to the Northwest USA (Portland and Seattle) for two weeks and a very short trip to Denver.   Both of these were sleeper cars in private roomettes.  The Denver trip was short enough that I could pack enough diapers to last the entire trip, but I had to use Pull Ups in Seattle.   I ended up with a Pull Up failure and leaked.  Fortunately I was able to take care of it without anybody noticing.

This is something I struggled with for the longest time. I would say I have been 24/7 for 95%+ the time over the last 36 months. BUT maybe 30% or less while traveling. I think I solved this by getting a flight credit card that gives me free check luggage. Most of my trips are sub 7 days and this should provide enough storage for diapers so that I can easily transport enough that any hesitation I have is my own and not monetary BS. 

 

[spark]

17 hours ago, DAQ said:

This is something I struggled with for the longest time. I would say I have been 24/7 for 95%+ the time over the last 36 months. BUT maybe 30% or less while traveling. I think I solved this by getting a flight credit card that gives me free check luggage. Most of my trips are sub 7 days and this should provide enough storage for diapers so that I can easily transport enough that any hesitation I have is my own and not monetary BS. 

 

Traveling with diapers is a PITA.  Especially because I'm almost aggressively discreet with my diapers.  Nobody in my family knows (or has said anything), and I can be very private. I'll toss my used diapers (bagged) in a hotel room, but not a friend's house   I use Pull-Ups, and don't typically wet them.  It is much more like it was when I was a semi-regular diaper wearer.    In my case, that hesitancy is that I don't want my family to know that I'm wearing a diaper.

The other issue is space.  I try not to check bags, and diapers are bulky.  It's quite a feat to somehow stash away 4 diapers (I took 10 to Vietnam) and a Pull Up for every day (those are easier to pack).  Btw, my personal carry-on (under my seat) was a backpack with some personal items and 8 diapers.   My carry-on had some more diapers, with my clothes.  Basically, I flew from Oakland to Oslo.   I came home from Singapore with two empty bags.

[DAQ]

4 hours ago, spark said:

Traveling with diapers is a PITA.  Especially because I'm almost aggressively discreet with my diapers.  Nobody in my family knows (or has said anything), and I can be very private. I'll toss my used diapers (bagged) in a hotel room, but not a friend's house   I use Pull-Ups, and don't typically wet them.  It is much more like it was when I was a semi-regular diaper wearer.    In my case, that hesitancy is that I don't want my family to know that I'm wearing a diaper.

The other issue is space.  I try not to check bags, and diapers are bulky.  It's quite a feat to somehow stash away 4 diapers (I took 10 to Vietnam) and a Pull Up for every day (those are easier to pack).  Btw, my personal carry-on (under my seat) was a backpack with some personal items and 8 diapers.   My carry-on had some more diapers, with my clothes.  Basically, I flew from Oakland to Oslo.   I came home from Singapore with two empty bags.

Like so many things I am re calibrating since my first post in this thread. Travel is something that I am really working towards. My lifestyle dictates that I travel at least 3-5 times per year to see family. And my goal is true urinary incontinence so I need to find a way to reconcile the two regardless of being detected, with discretion being an obvious goal but may not always be achievable.

[babykeiff]

On 12/20/2022 at 7:33 AM, DAQ said:

Like so many things I am re calibrating since my first post in this thread. Travel is something that I am really working towards. My lifestyle dictates that I travel at least 3-5 times per year to see family. And my goal is true urinary incontinence so I need to find a way to reconcile the two regardless of being detected, with discretion being an obvious goal but may not always be achievable.

Discretion while wearing diapers is realitavely easy - unless you go out of your way to publicize your diapers. Most, except the very observant with the prior daily knowledge of your butt size without a diaper, will not be able to tell if you are wearing - and those who do notice something, usually do not connect a fat butt with diapers.

Yes - if you wear infantile print garments plus the pacifier on a string, it would be assumed that you are wearing diapers. It is similar to the silly perception that people have that all disabled / wheelchair people wear diapers - which we know is false. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, people assume that it is a duck - however, if you look like everyone else although you may have a fatter butt than usual, since there is no point of reference for one to compare, one assumes that you are not wearing a diaper. This deception is ruined if your diaper is over sized (full) and/or leaking - situations that need to be avoided.

Your fear, I suspect, is being 'outed' / 'detected' by airport security. Apart from the odd idiot, most are decent humans that are simply trying to do a job without invading too much into people's privacy. As a result, most will not, on purpose, invade your privacy - and the option is always there to ask for privacy.

[DAQ]

57 minutes ago, babykeiff said:

Your fear, I suspect, is being 'outed' / 'detected' by airport security. Apart from the odd idiot, most are decent humans that are simply trying to do a job without invading too much into people's privacy. As a result, most will not, on purpose, invade your privacy - and the option is always there to ask for privacy.

To put it bluntly I don't care at all about airport security or what strangers think of me. I usually wear Megamaxes or some of the more innocuous ABDL printed diapers when I am traveling. I have flown a couple times diapered and the first time I was pulled aside because my diaper powder threw an alarm off for explosives.... somehow. My bags were searched and an explosive specialist was called to test further. 

In my own home and around town discretion is easy. I can change in my own bathroom 99% of the time and plan around the times I do not. Travelling to my parents or grandparents on the other hand is much more difficult. My grandparents do not have trash service at their home and burn all their garbage still. Any diapers that I use there will need to be packed out. And I feel like a child again sneaking diapers out to the trash at my parents houses but that is what discretion there looks like. And that is what I struggle with.

[Hannah YMS]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:32 AM, DAQ said:

I have posted before about a stuborn lack of progress in my goal towards incontinence. Any time I feel like I make any progress I end up two steps back.

Has anyone else been in a situation where they spent months/years with little to no progress and now have a degree of incontinence? What changed? What changes did you make or something happen to speed up your progress?

I have been 18/7 for many years and 24/7 for about two years now. I have a very subtle increase in incontinence. One of the major players right now is the post void drip and dribble. If I do #2 on the toilet I'm likely to leak #1 in my underwear, diapered or not.

In my 24/7 I've progressed toward seemingly uncontrollable urine retention to automatic voiding and skid marks in my diaper if I try to hold #2 for any length of time.

I know that if I had a very strong BM I wouldn't be able to hold it, I would only have a few minutes before the inevitable. To be fair I've been anal training with large plugs.

Still, I am one of those who have gone a few years into training with little results. I'm not sure what's going on.

[DiaperboyEddie12]

Wow I’m really enjoying this read.