OK I am a bit lost here.

[ValentinesStuff]

https://www.southcoasttoday.com/story/news/education/2022/11/21/new-bedford-paraprofessionals-file-complaint-against-diaper-duties/69653476007/

 

New Bedford paraprofessionals file complaint after district adds new duty: changing diapers

 

Umm, is this really a thing? It sounds like a bad AB story.

 

A quick Wikipedia check put the population at around 100K, and about 25% 18 or under. So figure about 1500 of each year, and we're talking about 7 grades, so maybe 10000 students. Just how many of these students are in diapers? 

[DailyDi]

The school nurse is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

[ValentinesStuff]

8 minutes ago, DailyDi said:

The school nurse is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

To be honest, I thought the school nurse was mostly gone years ago. 

 

But my question is still how many 10+ year olds are wearing diapers to school?

[Apache Raccoon]

1 hour ago, ValentinesStuff said:

To be honest, I thought the school nurse was mostly gone years ago. 

None of my schools had a nurse

1 hour ago, ValentinesStuff said:

But my question is still how many 10+ year olds are wearing diapers to school?

Other than the odd DL and incontinent person here and there I doubt it's many

Unless suddenly parents have forgotten to potty train

[Little Cub Pants]

6 minutes ago, Apache Raccoon said:

None of my schools had a nurse

Other than the odd DL and incontinent person here and there I doubt it's many

Unless suddenly parents have forgotten to potty train

That would be a dream come true buddy! And what do you mean your school never had nurses?!??? Here in America we ALWAYS have School nurses. I guess nobody's changing diapers if some 10 year old decided to wear Diapees to school!?♥️???????

[steveg]

My wife has been doing this job for 5 years never had CNA for diaper changes or men to change the boys either just her and 3 other paras in a class of 8-12 kids 

[~Brian~]

1 hour ago, ValentinesStuff said:

To be honest, I thought the school nurse was mostly gone years ago. 

 

But my question is still how many 10+ year olds are wearing diapers to school?

@ValentinesStuff

I would think the answer to this question wouldn't be dependent on how many people are in need of special education classes, and in that particular class, how many people are nonverbal non mobile are unable to do to do things for themselves?? we all know that many Kids go through school from the time they are probably 4 until the time they are 18. As such most kids go year to year, and they do the regular things that everyone does, and they hang out with their friends and other things like this, and the next thing you know their high school students and they're ready to graduate. When they're ready to graduate, they end up graduating high school and then they have to find a job. if they don't find a job, they might decide to go to school, so this is based on people who can go through schooling with little to no special Ed classes.

then you have the second class of students. these are students that are special Ed or special needs, and they are and need a very specialized schooling, meaning IEP's, and specialized plans. Every kid from the time they are legally required to go to school until the age of at least 21 are required to attend school and, and each school district is required to provide them a free and comparable education to those of their non disabled peers. These kids may be artistic, they may be dealing with severe disabilities, cognitive disabilities, neurological disabilities and other things. each one of these kids is a special case and requires that they be given the same or pretty close to the same type of education that their peers get. in many ways this may not be possible, but they are given a comparable education to their peers, and that is why a special education IEP is used: so that a normal education Or regular education can be tailored to the specific needs of the child. many times however, there are children who maybe disabled, and they may not be able to use the bathroom without assistance, or they may not be able to tell the instructors that they need to use the bathroom. Some of them are nonverbal some of them are non mobile, so you have to have the right type of people available to help these children to be comfortable as well as to have the proper the proper supports so they can succeed in whatever specialized program they end up Creating for a child of this caliber.

When I was in school, especially elementary school, I was mainstreamed. I had my special Ed classes, and I had my assistance from from different age and things for different subjects, but for the most part I was part of the normal class with my classmates and was doing the same level work as them. when I needed extra help, I would go to specialized Tutors and instructors that would help us with things that would bother us or causes problems. when I was in elementary school, they had a special classroom called the multi disciplinary/ multi handicap classroom, and each individual teacher was trains you'll be able to deal with students needs in situations. Many of the teachers that were in this class would take care of these young people, and they would make sure that their needs were taken care of. this means their emotional needs their medical needs their immediate needs, as well as their toileting/ Diapering needs. 

These individuals were trained to be able to know exactly what the kids and their care needed. If someone needed a diaper change, the teachers would take care of it. as far as I could tell when I was in that room, they would switch off. somebody would do it for the first two and then somebody else would do it for the next two, and then the next person would do it for the next two or three, so everybody took care of everyone's needs. it is important to note that these children did not potty train, because of their Disabilities and some of them probably would never be able to. Irregardless of that fact, you always must maintain dignity and respect when taking care of any child or young adult wearing diapers for whatever reason. you always treat them as if it is you who was using the bathroom and you want the same privacy and respect.

obviously there are going to be people that know that their students wear diapers, and they keep that between themselves and others that they work with as far as I can tell each time someone gets a diaper changed in a situation like this, they are well treated and they are treated with the utmost respect. Anyone who does not do this, would end up being probably chastised And then given the what for. children who need diapers for whatever reason don't have the choice in situation situations like this, and some kids are literally growing up and changing right before your eyes, so their individual education plans change along with them: by this I mean they may learn different skills, And so they might be able to do more than they did the year before, or they might be able to do something different, and they make sure that person can practice that skill. irregardless of that fact, people who are there to take of the kids, are there to take care of the kids and make sure that they can learn in the best way possible, in the best environment possible.

When I was assisting in a classroom like this, I was always very very aware that someone may be unable to do something that someone else may be Able to do. I always treated with the utmost respect, and I knew that some of these kids would have a harder time than others, but the best thing is you always try to give them the best opportunity to learn that they can, at the level that they can understand, and you always give them praise hugs and other types of rewards when they do good things, this way they know by the feedback you are giving them Whether something is going OK or something is not. it's always a responsibility of a teacher also monitor the student to determine whether the student is getting it, whether the student is having a bad day, whether the student is having problems, or their emotions are high or whatever. Regardless of whether a kid is disabled or not, they have feelings and they have ears and they can hear and they can understand things that we may think they can't understand. it is always a good idea to make sure that the kid is is not only ready to learn but is comfortable and is able to do it in a proper environment.

I understand that there are people who may think that paraprofessionals are being asked to do more and more things because of the way things are nowadays. however, paraprofessionals are important pieces of the educational system, and God knows without a paraprofessional or a whole plethora of these, many kids can't even get any get any work done, because their teacher is helping other students in the classroom, and a pair of professional is like an extra arm or an extra ear or an extra brain: sometimes people need that type of interaction to be able to understand things. I even had a teacher that would make a joke out of certain things so that people would understand things that people That aren't disabled do understand. One of the things I always have learned is that you never take for granted anything that you can do that somebody else might not be able to, because for everything that someone may not be able to do, there are things that they can do, you just have to be able to find out what it is and then be able to expand on what they can do, and teach them in a way they can learn, because no one learns the same way.

I agree with the article:  Kids need privacy and respect, because if they have to wear diapers for whatever reason, or they have to be in specialized classes for whatever reason, they should be given the utmost respect and they should be given the opportunity to prove that they can do some things. It is not their fault that they may have to be in specialized classes, and it's not their fault that they may not be able to stay dry during the day. Specialized classes allow for kids to be able to be schooled without specific limitation of being potty trained before you get to age 6. Most kids that I have remembered may not be able to talk and they may not be able to move very well, but I can assure you that if a kid is very very happy, there are ways that you can tell. my brother for example may not be able to show me that he can do certain things, but I can tell or could tell when he was happy, when he was sad, when he was upset, when he was in pain, and if he was upset or in pain, that would be my signal to go get my parents immediately. When he was happy, my brother would always laugh and giggle, and even in times when he was not feeling the best, he'd let us know that. you just have to be able to know even though someone isn't telling you what's going on, you listen for sound cues and you listen for their body language.

If we're dealing with somebody with autism for example, there are many many many different types of autism. some of them more severe than others. There's also people that have Down syndrome, and they may end up and normally do end up learning differently than someone who does not have autism or Down syndrome. you just have to find the way to be able to teach the kids So they can learn just like their peers. the idea here is every time you have a kid, you want to be able to give them the same type of education to the most people, and you have to be able to do it in a way that meets everyone's needs. I don't care what disability somebody has, but everybody has the right to an education, which is tailored for their personal needs, so they can be able to do as much for themselves as possible. if that means that we end up changing kids diapers for 10 years or 12 years or 14 years, so be it! it won't be the first time a diapers changed in schools and it won't be the last! I do think that there should be a way to allow for teachers to be able to take care of kids, so they don't end up wasting 25 minutes of a school Class period Because someone needs to use the bathroom.  It's not the kids fault that they have to use the bathroom, or that it might take them Longer than anyone out to use the facilities.

However, a teacher who has a bunch of kids in the classroom is responsible for every single one of them. this Includes those that are disabled, or that need extra help to be able to be mobile in the building. A teacher cannot teach a class, take care of all 26 or so kids, be able to take a disabled student to the bathroom, and then be able to deal with the emergency situation all to once. In this case, something must be done! this is why it is important to have people who are trained to take care of these specialized students: this is because some of them require specific things to be done to help them, positioning or maybe medicine distribution or other things. you also may have specialized aids that go with a student because that aid knows exactly what that kid needs when That kid needs it, and can tell what is up with that particular kid.

There are also more disabled kids that have specific disabilities such as having to be fed by tube and other things. School just like everyone else, but they end up having specialized things done for them as well. it's always a good idea as much as possible to have a kid go into mainstream schooling when it is practical and It can be done effectively. The idea here is that everyone has the same type of Education, or education that meets their needs, by the time they reach the age of 21. after they reach 21, then they end up going into support programs for the disabled, and they end up probably on Medicaid waiver or other programs.

I have a feeling that the most important thing is that the kids are able to be educated. this also means that everything about a kid needs to be known, so that if something should happen to that kid, they can deal with it effectively. some kids that go to school that are severely disabled don't live at home anymore, they live in a 24/7 facility that is specifically designed to take care of their every need, similar to the way my brother was taken care of until he died. it is always important to make sure a kid has the appropriate support systems, and if a school system needs to get those systems in place, or they need to figure out a way to be able to provide that service, they need to be able to do that. they also need to realize that these people that they hire, may have specialized training That regular age do not have period A CNA an LNA or an RN are three different individuals. each of them have specific training in how to take care of individuals. an RN is a registered nurse and he or she can do more than an LNA or an LPN, while an aide may have less training than a CNA. it all depends on what type of people you have available in your school system to be able to provide the support services. it makes sense to have a PT&OT and a speech pathologist on staff, and it also happens to be appropriate to have an audiologist on staff, because 90% of the time a student is usually checked for eye ear nose and throat problems before they go to their pediatrician when they when they have an issue. In my opinion, most problems are either sight or hearing difficulties, and that can be solved if someone knew there was an issue.

Nurses do have their function in schools: they might have gone by the wayside or many of them may have been doing less, but in a school environment, a nurse is the one person who can administer medication to students, in most schools that I have been to require that nurses administer into students or they or they supervise administration of medicines to students.  nurses are always responsible for holding medicine that is given to the school in a locked cabinet so that it does not cause issues for anyone For anyone else. they can also administer medicines to students such as Tylenol ibuprofen or something like this, and if there's anything else that is required to be administered during the school day, a student brings the prescription or a parent brings the prescription to the nurse, in some schools like mine allow a parent to come in during a particular time Time of day, and actually physically administer medicine to their child in the presence of the nurse. nurses do have responsibilities, so they shouldn't have just disappeared, but It's hard to remember a time in my school career that a school nurse was not present on site at all times!

Brian

34 minutes ago, steveg said:

My wife has been doing this job for 5 years never had CNA for diaper changes or men to change the boys either just her and 3 other paras in a class of 8-12 kids 

@steveg

And based on what I have learned from being in a multi handicap classroom, with many people of multi ages, with multi disabilities, each one of the children that they take care of whether it be male or female is always given the best possible care that can be Provided.  That being said, they are always given the respect and their privacy is respected to the highest degree possible!

Brian

[spark]

5 hours ago, ValentinesStuff said:

https://www.southcoasttoday.com/story/news/education/2022/11/21/new-bedford-paraprofessionals-file-complaint-against-diaper-duties/69653476007/

 

New Bedford paraprofessionals file complaint after district adds new duty: changing diapers

 

Umm, is this really a thing? It sounds like a bad AB story.

 

A quick Wikipedia check put the population at around 100K, and about 25% 18 or under. So figure about 1500 of each year, and we're talking about 7 grades, so maybe 10000 students. Just how many of these students are in diapers? 

FTR- I teach special education at a high school.

This is about special education and not general education.  And this is a high school, so the paras are changing students who have severe handicaps.  Usually non-verbal, and with limited mobility.   I'm surprised that it is a story because that's one of the job duties of a paraprofessional in a mod/severe classroom.  Somebody has to do it, and that usually falls on to a paraprofessional.  If that is necessary, the para is trained to do

In most cases, these are severe disabilities and affects 1 out of 1000 student after 6th grades.  At my high school, there is one room where a majority of the students need diapers, and I think there are 6 students in that class.

However, I've heard of younger students in traditional classrooms who do require Pull Ups or diapers.   A majority of them have an IEP, and most of are mostly independent with toileting.

[ValentinesStuff]

3 hours ago, spark said:

FTR- I teach special education at a high school.

This is about special education and not general education.  And this is a high school, so the paras are changing students who have severe handicaps.  Usually non-verbal, and with limited mobility.   I'm surprised that it is a story because that's one of the job duties of a paraprofessional in a mod/severe classroom.  Somebody has to do it, and that usually falls on to a paraprofessional.  If that is necessary, the para is trained to do

In most cases, these are severe disabilities and affects 1 out of 1000 student after 6th grades.  At my high school, there is one room where a majority of the students need diapers, and I think there are 6 students in that class.

However, I've heard of younger students in traditional classrooms who do require Pull Ups or diapers.   A majority of them have an IEP, and most of are mostly independent with toileting.

I had figured that it nearly entirely pertained to the Special Education students, but from my reading of the article it seemed that they were talking about hundreds of cases. It also came across as, the paraprofessionals just don't want to do the work. 

[Apache Raccoon]

4 hours ago, spark said:

FTR- I teach special education at a high school.

This is about special education and not general education.  And this is a high school, so the paras are changing students who have severe handicaps.  Usually non-verbal, and with limited mobility.   I'm surprised that it is a story because that's one of the job duties of a paraprofessional in a mod/severe classroom.  Somebody has to do it, and that usually falls on to a paraprofessional.  If that is necessary, the para is trained to do

In most cases, these are severe disabilities and affects 1 out of 1000 student after 6th grades.  At my high school, there is one room where a majority of the students need diapers, and I think there are 6 students in that class.

However, I've heard of younger students in traditional classrooms who do require Pull Ups or diapers.   A majority of them have an IEP, and most of are mostly independent with toileting.

That makes a bit more sense if it's a special-needs school to be fair.

[spark]

2 hours ago, ValentinesStuff said:

I had figured that it nearly entirely pertained to the Special Education students, but from my reading of the article it seemed that they were talking about hundreds of cases. It also came across as, the paraprofessionals just don't want to do the work. 

I'll just say, from the perspective of an expert in the field, this article is written from the,  perspective of somebody who doesn't understand the issues.  New Bedford High School is about the same size as my high school, so I'm going to assume that it is at most 10 students.   They didn't mention the number of students, but they did make seem like it was much more than it seems.

After re-reading it (technically- I barely skimmed it the first time?),   It appears to be more about the broad job duties, along with limited pay.  The main source is a union rep, and they tend to over-dramatize the plight of their members.  The line about them being young adults is technically true, but based on my limited experience with this level- they tend to be cognitively closer to an 18-month-old baby (less than 25% of their peers).  I have more experience with the level above the most severe, and it is closer to an 6 t 10-year (about 50% of their peers).   But those kids are usually independent with toileting.  However- even the most cognitively impaired student can make you feel REALLY happy, and they like to feel happy- so that's a big problem with this level because they don't always understand that it's not appropriate to feel happy in front of everybody.

The truth is: para-professionals have a very difficult job and for almost no money.  Does anybody want to take a wild guess who are first people on the chopping block when a district needs to save money?

Is it the assistant Superintendent of Student Diversity Affairs, making $225k per year, or the 100  paraprofessionals making 17k per year?

[ValentinesStuff]

@spark Thanks. Now I think I get it.

 

I have a sister that has been a nurse for around 40 years. She has solely worked in nursing homes. Despite being in charge, she still is out there changing diapers on those under her care.

[WeaselDiaperBoy]

On 11/22/2022 at 9:52 AM, DailyDi said:

The school nurse is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

My sister works as a school nurse at an elementary school. That said, I doubt if she has had any "diapered" students. I don't doubt that there is the occasional accident, but her typical day includes monitoring the blood sugar of a diabetic child and ensuring the child gets insulin when needed. Other than that, she dispenses a lot of ice chips since those are the magical cure for the ills that the balance of the kids come to her for.  During COVID she provided a lot of masks.

She loves working in this setting. She has K-5 students. Her previous employer was at the California Department of Corrections at a women's high security prison. She doesn't worry about shivs now. ?

[spark]

On 12/1/2022 at 6:57 PM, WeaselDiaperBoy said:

My sister works as a school nurse at an elementary school. That said, I doubt if she has had any "diapered" students. I don't doubt that there is the occasional accident, but her typical day includes monitoring the blood sugar of a diabetic child and ensuring the child gets insulin when needed. Other than that, she dispenses a lot of ice chips since those are the magical cure for the ills that the balance of the kids come to her for.  During COVID she provided a lot of masks.

She loves working in this setting. She has K-5 students. Her previous employer was at the California Department of Corrections at a women's high security prison. She doesn't worry about shivs now. ?

AFAIK, there are fewer school nurses than schools, very few schools have a nurse always on campus.   My high school does, but we have 3,000 students.  The elementary schools have less than 500 students.   Every employee is trained to administer an EpiPen and an AED.    They are responsible for health plans, and training staff to administer procedures that might otherwise be performed by parents. 

The idea of having the school nurse change diapers is pure fiction.   I don't deal with younger students, but I'd imagine a school would encourage independence if a neurotypical student couldn't independently handle their toileting needs.  Here is a survey that shared that 32% of college-aged females had experienced some degree of incontinence in a 4-week period, and that excludes the severely handicapped.   So if I use 20% of the student body, that 600 students in the 3k campus have experienced incontinence.  If we assume that only 5% of those 600 students need some sort of incontinence product, that's 30 students at a given high school.    

[babykeiff]

This, to me, seems like a case of finding another task to pass onto a minimum paid worker - that is if even this employee is getting paid. Some of these people are clased as 'interns' and therfore not getting paid. A paraprofessional is really a term for an unskilled member of staff. These people are the 'trainee' and/or 'apprentice' to a specific skillset. The only difference between a paraprofessional and a professional is that the para- has not yet got their licence or full qualification.

This type of 'passing the job to a trainee' rather than have the 'licence holder' and/or 'qualified person' perform the task is a way of business' handling the tasks required without exposing themselves to discriminatory and/or unfair work condition cases from people who can easily afford legal actions.

[baby vinny]

the local school has special facilities for those that require diapers and most are in a a special education class and the paras do the changing.  there is a shower and other need items always in that bathroom and the door is open unless in use

[spark]

On 12/3/2022 at 2:19 PM, babykeiff said:

This, to me, seems like a case of finding another task to pass onto a minimum paid worker - that is if even this employee is getting paid. Some of these people are clased as 'interns' and therfore not getting paid. A paraprofessional is really a term for an unskilled member of staff. These people are the 'trainee' and/or 'apprentice' to a specific skillset. The only difference between a paraprofessional and a professional is that the para- has not yet got their licence or full qualification.

This type of 'passing the job to a trainee' rather than have the 'licence holder' and/or 'qualified person' perform the task is a way of business' handling the tasks required without exposing themselves to discriminatory and/or unfair work condition cases from people who can easily afford legal actions.

Again, I'm playing my expert card here.

First of all, Para-educators are the unheralded heroes of the special education world.   They are underpaid and work their a's off. however, their job is to do whatever needs to be done.    My para will spend the next two weeks trying to get finals from GE teachers who think they are useless peons, and then getting them back to those teachers so they can grade the test and give our kids credit.    It's a thankless job, and FTR- if you suck at the job- please let me do it,    From a teacher standpoint, a good para is your right hand, and a bad para is an anchor

But with that being said, that's their job.  They do what needs to be done.  As unrealistic as it is in my position, if I ever had a student who needed that level of support, it would have to fall on the para-educator. Given the age issues, I could put myself in jeopardy if I did

I'm very pro-union, and I've been under whistleblower protections.   However, in my expert opinion, if you're a para-educator assigned to a teacher who has a need to support their toileting- you're responsible for that task.  That's their job.

[babykeiff]

3 hours ago, spark said:

...From a teacher standpoint, a good para is your right hand, and a bad para is an anchor...

A good para vs a bad para to a teacher. Is it not, even by the title 'teacher', the teachers job to teach.... and is it not, by definition, the para (*weird name for a trainee) job to learn from said teacher. As a result a good para = is being taught and a bad para = is not being taught? 

From my understanding of the roles between a  para-professional and a professional, it is the professional's role to train his/her possible replacement and it is done by training the para-professional, and not dumping all the sh*t work on the para-professional!

In every trade, there is the expert and the apprentice. If you are the so called expert, just cause you got sh*t pilled on you when you were a apperentice from the a**hole of the professional, doesn't mean that you provide the sh*t for your apprentice. The reason an apprentice exists is so s/he can learn from the expert without making errors that can cost either the client / business, and therefore become the expert. The apprentice is not there to do the mundane tasks that the expert does not like / want to do!

*I would bet that there is some legal twist that created the term 'para' rather than apprentice / trainee / intern.

The etemology of the word para is from Greek pará meaning beside; next to, near, from; against, contrary to.

According to Merriam-Webster using the word as a prefix :-

1: beside : alongside of : beyond : aside from
2 a: closely related to
  b: involving substitution at or characterized by two opposite positions in the benzene ring that are separated by two carbon atoms
3 a: faulty : abnormal
  b: associated in a subsidiary or accessory capacity
  ? closely resembling : almost

This is where someone is morphing english to make a word mean what they wish, which is the art of obfiscation, and where dictionaries need to update themselves to suit. I have only seen the para term been used in USA rather than the rest of the world, and in my humble opinion, it is a discriminatory term.

Is a paramount a faulty or something that closely resembles a mount?

Is a paratrouper a faulty trouper or abnormal trouper or something that is almost a trouper?

If not, why call a trainee professional a para professional?

 

 

 

 

[Personalias]

12 hours ago, babykeiff said:

A good para vs a bad para to a teacher. Is it not, even by the title 'teacher', the teachers job to teach.... and is it not, by definition, the para (*weird name for a trainee) job to learn from said teacher. As a result a good para = is being taught and a bad para = is not being taught? 

 

We don't call a trainee professional a paraprofessional because paraprofessionals aren't trainees. They're support staff.  They're teacher assistants/aides.   

The teacher TEACHES the students, not the paraprofessionals.  

I'm not an expert on law, but I think it's roughly the same working relationship that a paralegal and a lawyer have.  It's not a master and apprentice thing.

You sound like you're thinking of college education majors doing a teaching internship.  That's a totally different thing than paraprofessional.

Everything Spark said is right on the money.  

[ValentinesStuff]

13 hours ago, babykeiff said:

Is a paratrouper a faulty trouper or abnormal trouper or something that is almost a trouper?

A paratrouper is a British soldier that jumps out of a plane.

[babykeiff]

19 minutes ago, Personalias said:

We don't call a trainee professional a paraprofessional because paraprofessionals aren't trainees. They're support staff.  They're teacher assistants/aides...

Collins English Dictionary Paraprofessional Definition

adjective: 1.  designating a person who is not fully qualified in a profession, but who helps qualified professionals with their work
noun 2. A paraprofessional is a practitioner with some training but less comprehensive or extensive training than a full-fledged member of the profession.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary Paraprofessional Definition
noun: a trained aide who assists a professional person (such as a teacher or doctor)

Merriam-Webster.com Dictionary Aide Definition

: a person who acts as an assistant

https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-a-paraprofessional

A paraprofessional is a specially trained, credentialed educational worker who supports students in school under the supervision of a teacher.

https://work.chron.com/paraprofessional-4981.html

Paraprofessionals are workers who are not qualified or licensed to serve in particular professions but who handle tasks in support of qualified professionals in those fields.

Direct excerpts from the sites listed.

Does that not mean that the paraprofessional answers to the professional / teacher for the paraprofessionals good actions as well as bad actions... and therefore, is it not the resposibility of the professional, in his/her role, to do his/her role to the best of his/her ability, which includes telling the paraprofessional how to do his/her role. The fact that the paraprofessional is not qualified or licensed to serve means that the paraprofessional has to answer and work under the direct supervision of a professional who is qualified and/or licensed.

That means that the professional TEACHES THE PARAPROFESSIONAL... and if in the USA, you wish to not call the paraprofessional a trainee / junior / apprentice / J.A.F.O. / trainee or whatever, that is your free choice.

12 hours ago, babykeiff said:

A good para vs a bad para to a teacher. Is it not, even by the title 'teacher', the teachers job to teach.... and is it not, by definition, the para (*weird name for a trainee) job to learn from said teacher. As a result a good para = is being taught and a bad para = is not being taught? 

From my understanding of the roles between a  para-professional and a professional, it is the professional's role to train his/her possible replacement and it is done by training the para-professional, and not dumping all the sh*t work on the para-professional!

In every trade, there is the expert and the apprentice. If you are the so called expert, just cause you got sh*t pilled on you when you were a apperentice from the a**hole of the professional, doesn't mean that you provide the sh*t for your apprentice. The reason an apprentice exists is so s/he can learn from the expert without making errors that can cost either the client / business, and therefore become the expert. The apprentice is not there to do the mundane tasks that the expert does not like / want to do!

*I would bet that there is some legal twist that created the term 'para' rather than apprentice / trainee / intern.

The etemology of the word para is from Greek pará meaning beside; next to, near, from; against, contrary to.

According to Merriam-Webster using the word as a prefix :-

1: beside : alongside of : beyond : aside from
2 a: closely related to
  b: involving substitution at or characterized by two opposite positions in the benzene ring that are separated by two carbon atoms
3 a: faulty : abnormal
  b: associated in a subsidiary or accessory capacity
  ? closely resembling : almost

This is where someone is morphing english to make a word mean what they wish, which is the art of obfiscation, and where dictionaries need to update themselves to suit. I have only seen the para term been used in USA rather than the rest of the world, and in my humble opinion, it is a discriminatory term.

Is a paramount a faulty or something that closely resembles a mount?

Is a paratrouper a faulty trouper or abnormal trouper or something that is almost a trouper?

If not, why call a trainee professional a para professional?

 

Which definition do you CHOOSE to use? As there are multiple choices in the definition of a term, by what reason do you chose one over the other? Is that not the very definition of obfuscation?

1 minute ago, ValentinesStuff said:

A paratrouper is a British soldier that jumps out of a plane.

@ValentinesStuff,

I am fully aware of what a paratrouper is. I was making fun of the para prefix, as it applied to paratrouper, paramount etc and using same to make fun of the dictionary definition.

Not all dictionary definitions are correct. English is one of the misused langages in the world where for every rule that exists in the language, there is a contradiction.

[ValentinesStuff]

@babykeiffBased off of other posts of yours around the site, I have absolutely no clue when you are joking or serious.

[babykeiff]

1 minute ago, ValentinesStuff said:

@babykeiffBased off of other posts of yours around the site, I have absolutely no clue when you are joking or serious.

Let me apologize... and in future, I will try to remember to add emotiocons

[spark]

On 12/5/2022 at 3:38 PM, Personalias said:

We don't call a trainee professional a paraprofessional because paraprofessionals aren't trainees. They're support staff.  They're teacher assistants/aides.   

The teacher TEACHES the students, not the paraprofessionals.  

I'm not an expert on law, but I think it's roughly the same working relationship that a paralegal and a lawyer have.  It's not a master and apprentice thing.

You sound like you're thinking of college education majors doing a teaching internship.  That's a totally different thing than paraprofessional.

Everything Spark said is right on the money.  

Exactly.   In a special education class, the paraeducator is the teacher's aide.  You can get semantical with the definition, but that title that we use.   

What @babykeiff is describing is a student teacher, and that would be a completely different relationship.

Interestingly, I'm not their direct supervisor.    I don't write evaluations, and I don't deal with work write-ups.   I treat my paras as equals in the classroom, however, it is ultimately my decision.  It's closer to a doctor/nurse relationship than anything else.

When the relationship works, it is beautiful.  They anticipate my needs, and my kids are supported and we have a good community.  I have them do things that they are good at, and they help me do the things that I'm not good at.   When it doesn't work, it gets awkward.  A lot of it falls on my communication, but a lot of that falls on how much I trust them to do something.

I work with 3 paraeducators in my current job.  There are two that I trust completely, but they are good at different things.  Third, I don't have a lot of trust with him, so I don't find much for him to do.

[babykeiff]

1 hour ago, spark said:

Exactly.   In a special education class, the paraeducator is the teacher's aide.  You can get semantical with the definition, but that title that we use.   

What @babykeiff is describing is a student teacher, and that would be a completely different relationship.

Interestingly, I'm not their direct supervisor.    I don't write evaluations, and I don't deal with work write-ups.   I treat my paras as equals in the classroom, however, it is ultimately my decision.  It's closer to a doctor/nurse relationship than anything else.

When the relationship works, it is beautiful.  They anticipate my needs, and my kids are supported and we have a good community.  I have them do things that they are good at, and they help me do the things that I'm not good at.   When it doesn't work, it gets awkward.  A lot of it falls on my communication, but a lot of that falls on how much I trust them to do something.

I work with 3 paraeducators in my current job.  There are two that I trust completely, but they are good at different things.  Third, I don't have a lot of trust with him, so I don't find much for him to do.

You are refering to paraeductors NOT paraprofessionals!

As a result, you are prefixing the word educator with the term para,

On 12/5/2022 at 11:23 AM, babykeiff said:

The etemology of the word para is from Greek pará meaning beside; next to, near, from; against, contrary to.

According to Merriam-Webster using the word as a prefix :-

1: beside : alongside of : beyond : aside from
2 a: closely related to
  b: involving substitution at or characterized by two opposite positions in the benzene ring that are separated by two carbon atoms
3 a: faulty : abnormal
  b: associated in a subsidiary or accessory capacity
  ? closely resembling : almost

of which the definition is clear.

This topic is in relation to paraprofessionals, not para-whomever