Dissociating the sensation of bladder pressure with voiding

[Enthusi]

This is more of a personal update that I thought I would share.  I’m not necessarily looking for advice or support. Though I’d be delighted to hear others’ comments on the topic.  

Anyways I’ve noticed a massive uptick in the number of instances where I’m wet or more wet than I realized.  It used to be once in a blue moon but recently it’s happening daily and sometimes multiple times in a day.  I’m not upset about it. Quite the opposite!  It’s an amazing feeling to check your diaper and be surprised by how wet it is! Or to be legitimately thankful your diaper has wetness indicators to make your life easier.    ?

As for why it’s happening my guess is that it has something to do with ignoring or at least filtering out the sensation of bladder fullness.   For years now I’ve had difficulty making myself go on command  thanks to weak and uncoordinated muscles. Usually when I sense bladder fullness, I expect a wetting to follow.  However recently when I sense pressure it’s mild and so I honestly forget about it when I get distracted by some other thought or sensation or activity.  At some point later on I will notice my diaper is wet.  It’s like the bladder pressure I experienced is useless noise and irrelevant.  It just means at some point down the road I will probably wet, which I already knew.  

There are some unresolved questions I’d love to have answers to: 

1.  Can someone with an intact neurological system pee without having any preceding sensation of bladder fullness (During the day time)?  Would that explain why I wouldn’t realize I’m wetting if I’m distracted? 

2. Why is it that the recent sensations of bladder fullness are milder and easily ignored?    Is it that my bladder size is shrinking so the nerve receptors aren’t able to detect and send sensations of bladder fullness?    Or is it that my brain is better at ignoring the sensation?  Or is the reflex so strong that I’m voiding before the bladder even gets full?  Or what if my stream is so weak I don’t realize I’m peeing and I’ve learned to ignore the bladder pressure? 

3. Can one fully dissociate the sensation of bladder fullness with need to void once they’ve been potty trained?  Even I’m skeptical of that.  In my case it’s more so that I can’t do anything about the fullness sensation and it’s less noticeable so I’m more or less ignoring it and focusing my attention elsewhere. 

4. Unfortunately I can’t figure out a way to test these hypothesis as the more I pay attention to the sensation the more aware I am of the status of my diaper. 

5.  Is this what babies and toddlers experience?  Mild bladder pressure is simply a sensation and one that is easy to ignore. 

6. Most importantly will this lead to more instances of wetting without realizing? I hope so, but I’m not sure. 

(Edited for clarity) 

[Tadpole]

"Or to be legitimately thankful your diaper has wetness indicators to make your life easier"

Does anyone *wearing* a diaper actually use the wetness indicators? I can see why it is useful for caregivers to gauge wetness, but isn't just feeling the diaper a much better indicator? (Also the only bit the wearer can see is the front, and that surface is wet from the first wetting in most cases, and therefore not a useful indicator anyway?)

[~Brian~]

21 minutes ago, Tadpole said:

"Or to be legitimately thankful your diaper has wetness indicators to make your life easier"

Does anyone *wearing* a diaper actually use the wetness indicators? I can see why it is useful for caregivers to gauge wetness, but isn't just feeling the diaper a much better indicator? (Also the only bit the wearer can see is the front, and that surface is wet from the first wetting in most cases, and therefore not a useful indicator anyway?)

@Tadpole

 

I would agree, witness indicators are only useful to those that are caregivers that need to know whether the diaper is wet. Sometimes, having a witness indicator is easier than having to fill the diaper, because that way you won’t have to make a determination on its wetness. However, we all know that easiest way to tell whether a diaper is wet is to know whether or not it is being used or has been used. I can tell when my own diaper is wet simply by touching it because of the fact that it is a different feeling than a dry diaper when you first put it on. If you are wearing the diaper, the wearer can actually tell if the thing is wet because they can feel it, or they can see the indicators themselves.

however, there are some people who are totally incontinent, and may not be able to tell when they’re wet or messy. In that case, the only way they will know is to be able to remove the diaper if they feel something in there and know that it’s time to change. Making a diaper change easier, the Wetness indicator helps the caregiver to know when it is time to change the diaper. This is because wetness indicator work on the idea that once wetness hits the padding it changes color to allow someone to know or disappears to let someone know that the diaper needs to be changed.  I don’t use the witness indicators on diapers, because I can tell when it is wet. With a mega max you don’t need a witness indicator, because if you keep on using the diaper each time you wear the diaper it becomes bigger and puffier and it will end up hanging lower and lower because it gets heavier and heavier.

Be honest, I’m glad that I have my mega maxes, because that way I know that I will be safe. Mega max diapers are one of the best diapers made today, and they are built to be able to withstand multiple voids/releases without causing too much difficulty. However, you still have to change your diaper if you mess it, and you may not be able to keep a dirty diaper on for a long period of time because you are dealing with wetness as well as fecal material, and that can cause problems with rashes and other things if you leave a wet or dirty diaper on for a long period of time. With a mega max, you will know when the thing needs to be changed, and don’t even NEED an indicator, because if you notice your diaper is wet there will be no mistaking your diaper being wet and needing to be changed.

Brian

[Enthusi]

1 hour ago, Tadpole said:

"Or to be legitimately thankful your diaper has wetness indicators to make your life easier"

Does anyone *wearing* a diaper actually use the wetness indicators? I can see why it is useful for caregivers to gauge wetness, but isn't just feeling the diaper a much better indicator? (Also the only bit the wearer can see is the front, and that surface is wet from the first wetting in most cases, and therefore not a useful indicator anyway?)

For me they’re helpful. For instance when I’m busy at work and I can quickly unbutton my pants and sneak a peak without having to touch my crotch. Plus when you dribble slowly you don’t  really “feel” wet and if the wetness is dispersed your diaper won’t feel clumpy  

 

 

 

[oznl]

1 hour ago, Tadpole said:

"Or to be legitimately thankful your diaper has wetness indicators to make your life easier"

Does anyone *wearing* a diaper actually use the wetness indicators? I can see why it is useful for caregivers to gauge wetness, but isn't just feeling the diaper a much better indicator? (Also the only bit the wearer can see is the front, and that surface is wet from the first wetting in most cases, and therefore not a useful indicator anyway?)

For me it's a combination of feeling and the age of the nappy.  I don't think I've ever paid any attention to the wetness indicators.

 

 

1.      Can someone with an intact neurological system pee without having any preceding sensation of bladder fullness (During the day time)?  Would that explain why I wouldn’t realize I’m wetting if I’m distracted? 

Yes I can.  I pretty much void whenever I stop to think about it and I started that practice pretty much the moment I went 24/7.  I thought this was something everybody could do?

Having any actual sensation of bladder fullness is very, very rare for me because my bladder is never given the opportunity to fill.  Even at night, it seems to empty itself every couple of hours if I am asleep.

2. Why is it that the recent sensations of bladder fullness are milder and easily ignored?    Is it that my bladder size is shrinking so the nerve receptors aren’t able to detect and send sensations of bladder fullness?    Or is it that my brain is better at ignoring the sensation?  Or is the reflex so strong that I’m voiding before the bladder even gets full?  Or what if my stream is so weak I don’t realize I’m peeing and I’ve learned to ignore the bladder pressure? 

Once again, quantum-indeterminacy-as-applied-to-nappy-use kicks in here.  I don’t have any bladder sensations but is that because I’ve never let my bladder full or because it’s given up talking to me?  I don’t know.

3. Can one fully dissociate the sensation of bladder fullness with need to void once they’ve been potty trained?  Even I’m skeptical of that.  In my case it’s more so that I can’t do anything about the fullness sensation and it’s less noticeable so I’m more or less ignoring it and focusing my attention elsewhere. 

There’s something going on with me here.  I don’t know what it is, it’s not as strong as you describe but there are some similarities. 

7 hours ago, Enthusi said:

For years now I’ve had difficulty making myself go on command  thanks to weak and uncoordinated muscles. Usually when I sense bladder fullness, I expect a wetting to follow.  However recently when I sense pressure it’s mild and so I honestly forget about it when I get distracted by some other thought or sensation or activity. 

I'm seeing this in myself now.  It seems to be getting harder (instead of easier) to pee frequently and sensations are muted.  I'm rarely (if ever) noticing a follow-through to an automatic daytime void though but then again, I didn't notice bedwetting for a long time after it most likely started either.

There’s been times where whilst not full, I’m aware that there is *something* in my bladder but I can’t get it out.  The commands seem to be ignored or if responded to, responded to in a lagged, sluggish fashion.  It's like my body is starting to forget what it has to do but its very early days.  The decision to do it remains 100% mine (during the day at least).  It's the "following orders" thing that has been unreliable.  I have NO idea what is going on and in any other circumstance, I'd be seeking medical advice.

In a possibly-related manifestation, I've noticed that incomplete voiding seems to be getting worse.  I hope this doesn't cause issues.

4. Unfortunately I can’t figure out a way to test these hypothesis as the more I pay attention to the sensation the more aware I am of the status of my diaper. 

Ah, that indeterminacy thing again.  Measurement influences results therefore results may not (directly) be measured.

5.  Is this what babies and toddlers experience?  Mild bladder pressure is simply a sensation and one that is easy to ignore. 

No idea.  I wonder if my bedwetting is a bit like early infancy though.  My bladder just dumps whatever is on board every couple of hours without telling me about it.

6. Most importantly will this lead to more instances of wetting without realizing? I hope so, but I’m not sure. 

This remains vanishingly rare for me.  Maybe a handful of times but even then, it's entirely possible that I DID intend to pee but in the heat of the moment, somehow forgot making the decision (ie: it tends to happen when I am distracted by something else).

[BabyBoi91]

Hey, Enthusi!

 

I'm using a self-hypnosis track at the moment that has been very helpful that is focused on teaching the conscious mind to ignore the fullness of the bladder while also learning its ok to simply allow the bladder to release "whenever it wants" and another that focuses very heavily on the relaxation of the muscles down there (and accepting / expecting continual drip of urine throughout the day/night).  

I have found the combination together to be super effective. 

So, yes, you can pee without any conscious sensation of bladder fullness.

1.  Can someone with an intact neurological system pee without having any preceding sensation of bladder fullness (During the day time)?  Would that explain why I wouldn’t realize I’m wetting if I’m distracted?  

Even nonABDL can "force pee" even if they think their bladder is empty. People do it all the time for urine samples. 

2. Why is it that the recent sensations of bladder fullness are milder and easily ignored?    Is it that my bladder size is shrinking so the nerve receptors aren’t able to detect and send sensations of bladder fullness?    Or is it that my brain is better at ignoring the sensation?  Or is the reflex so strong that I’m voiding before the bladder even gets full?  Or what if my stream is so weak I don’t realize I’m peeing and I’ve learned to ignore the bladder pressure? 

The bladder can shrink a little if it's chronically not being distended, but you would need to NEVER be letting your bladder get full.  More likely, after X months/years of diaper wearing 24/7 you are starting to train your body/mind that diapers are the appropriate place to pee and it's ok to let go (even at work).  Eventually, new synapses form and the brain learns something new. 

3. Can one fully dissociate the sensation of bladder fullness with need to void once they’ve been potty trained?  Even I’m skeptical of that.  In my case it’s more so that I can’t do anything about the fullness sensation and it’s less noticeable so I’m more or less ignoring it and focusing my attention elsewhere.  Bladder fullness will also be dependent on position. If something is pressing on the bladder (sitting and hunched over), you may notice it sooner vs reclining vs supine vs standing. Also, you are correct if you're distracted you may not notice it because again, you may have started to train yourself that going to the bathroom isn't super important. 

4. Unfortunately I can’t figure out a way to test these hypothesis as the more I pay attention to the sensation the more aware I am of the status of my diaper. 

I think one thing that could still be true is the degree of your diaper's wetness. My guess is (given what you said about worrying about leaking) if your skin actually feels DAMP (aka the diaper is saturated) then I bet your brain suddenly will alert you to a full bladder and unconsciously hold the bladder longer because you don't actually want to leak all over the place at work (unless I'm wrong and you do....xP, jk). it sounds like this is already going on, you just said it backwards, "The more aware I am of the status of my diaper, the more I pay attention to the sensation [of my bladder].

5.  Is this what babies and toddlers experience?  Mild bladder pressure is simply a sensation and one that is easy to ignore.

As I mentioned before, infants and newborns don't use their brains to pee--its a reflexive circuit built into the sacral plexus. Basically bladder distension sends a nerve to the sacral plexus which sends a signal back to the bladder telling it to contract. Boom.   As they mature, the brain develops and the signals develop that allow the brain to control this (and thereby allow toddlers to potty train).  

6. Most importantly will this lead to more instances of wetting without realizing? I hope so, but I’m not sure. 

If it means you have consciously (and unconsciously) started to accept that your pee belongs in your diapers, then there's a good chance you will be wetting a lot more --including times without realizing it, especially if you have also started to accept/process the idea that it's fully ok for your body to let go whenever and wherever it wants. 

Those are questions and concepts for you to decide :).  

Happy for you though! and best of luck, Enthusi!

[DLJeff52]

On 2/11/2022 at 12:00 PM, Enthusi said:

1.  Can someone with an intact neurological system pee without having any preceding sensation of bladder fullness (During the day time)?  Would that explain why I wouldn’t realize I’m wetting if I’m distracted? 

 

I wanted to focus more on this question.  I am curious if untrainers out there have ultimately noticed that the sensation of bladder being full to the extent that it alerts the body a wetting is coming ever goes away or if it just becomes less intense.  It is interesting to contemplate if the body ever turns "off" the alert of a filling bladder or if it will always send the signal but your body begins to ignore it more and more.  For example, my mind conditions itself to ignore the "floater" in my left eye, even though it is still there, so I "notice" it less and less even though there is a signal registering that a floater is present.  Fascinating and wonder if anyone knows the science behind it all.

[Enthusi]

On 3/12/2022 at 5:53 PM, DLJeff52 said:

I wanted to focus more on this question.  I am curious if untrainers out there have ultimately noticed that the sensation of bladder being full to the extent that it alerts the body a wetting is coming ever goes away or if it just becomes less intense.  It is interesting to contemplate if the body ever turns "off" the alert of a filling bladder or if it will always send the signal but your body begins to ignore it more and more.  For example, my mind conditions itself to ignore the "floater" in my left eye, even though it is still there, so I "notice" it less and less even though there is a signal registering that a floater is present.  Fascinating and wonder if anyone knows the science behind it all.

That’s a great question!  I can only speak for myself. 
 

I do think there is a little bit of warning suppression.  This is true during times when I feel some pressure but it’s not enough to spontaneously empty such as when I’m sitting down.  It’s not an actionable warning so you kind of ignore it.

The other factor is that my bladder simply doesn’t get that full any more. When I’m on auto pilot I usually spontaneously wet when the urgency gets to 5-6/10 in severity (mild to moderate discomfort).  If it ever gets higher than that, the sensation only lasts a few seconds before my muscles relax and/ or give out and I start wetting and I would say I spontaneously wet by the time I feel anything more that 4-5/10. 

Actually I may make a post about this! ?

 

 

[Mindylou]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:53 PM, DLJeff52 said:

I wanted to focus more on this question.  I am curious if untrainers out there have ultimately noticed that the sensation of bladder being full to the extent that it alerts the body a wetting is coming ever goes away or if it just becomes less intense.  It is interesting to contemplate if the body ever turns "off" the alert of a filling bladder or if it will always send the signal but your body begins to ignore it more and more.  For example, my mind conditions itself to ignore the "floater" in my left eye, even though it is still there, so I "notice" it less and less even though there is a signal registering that a floater is present.  Fascinating and wonder if anyone knows the science behind it all.

While I don't understand the science behind it all, I am amazed everyday at my body's changing signs that I'm becoming incontinent or diaper dependent. My bladder no longer fills up that I'm aware of, i just go when it comes out or I get that slight urge that says "you're fixing to pee" and then it comes out. My brain does not register the fact that I have to go pee anymore, and to hold it until I get to a bathroom.. I just go with no forethought now. It's the coolest feeling ever that my body trusts my diapers to be there for it's needs. I've been 24/7 for almost 6 months now.  Pee leaks out whenever it wants, diapered or not! And I don't stop it, like if I just got out of the shower and the urge hits (usually because of running water) I just let it go and clean up after..  it's awesome that I'm losing control completely now. I can usually count on leaking while seated as well (noticable when I move and it squirt's out LOL). Focusing on keeping completely open and relaxed in my sphincters has been the key to my untraining, to where I don't have to focus much anymore.