My experience with stents

[sebt]

On 8/18/2019 at 9:35 PM, qwerty said:

Stent 3.1 update:

tl;dr : 3 days straight, so far, including nights. Almost no discernible irritation. Much, much more comfortable at night. 

So it turns out the exact angle and radius of the two bends in my stent design matter a lot. The bend near the front (urine exiting part) of the stent was not tight enough. As a result, i didn't actually get the retaining quality of the design. Stent 3.1 is basically the exact same as 3.0 except with a longer bend in the front. So far, ZERO movement. I've even tried pushing it in to the bladder; refuses to go in. This is fantastic since, in theory, I can ditch the retrieval line. I dont see a real reason to risk it at this time though.

The real benefit of this is when sleeping. When sleeping, I found that the previous stent designs would slip backwards a little bit, and whenever I clamp down my external sphincter, the end of the stent is halfway in, halfway out of the sphincter. This causes significant discomfort, and a lot of irritation over the course of the night. Of course, this isn't something I can control since the sphincter naturally wants to stay closed. But now, the problem doesn't exist at all. Much more comfortable to sleep. I think the sleep irritation was the major limiting factor in how long i could keep previous stents in. 

Stent 3.1 has been in and out for the past week or so. I had to get each bend angle and radius just right. Fortunately, the adjustments were small enough to do just by hand bending the stent, and didn't require building a new one. (good thing too since I'm almost out of the catheter size I use for stents.) So after working the stent till it just about melds with my urethra's natural curves, I've arrived at the completed version 3.1 

Man, what a difference a well fitted stent makes. For the past few days, I've been the most comfortably stented I've ever been. Before, the standard for me was "tolerable while moving, comfortable when still", but I've been routinely forgetting that I have a stent in at all... until of course I feel a trickle of pee start. Which then turn into a stream, and I instinctively try to stop it, only to find that I can't control it at all.

With the previous stents, I think about a week was the limit before it became a little too uncomfortable to sleep and stuff, and I would end up taking it out to be able to get to sleep for the night. Another thing I've really noticed is that stent irritation is significantly worse when you're dehydrated. Seriously, it felt like the urethra was being rubbed raw by every movement. This quickly went away once I drank enough water. Anyone else notice this? Well either way, I'm not about to complain about an excuse to stay well hydrated, and therefore more leaky  I've been doing some heavy exercise in some pretty brutal heat yesterday, and the stent felt just fine though. So I think I'm definitely making progress.

I had never imagined a stent could be so comfortable I would not notice it was in unless it was causing me to leak at that moment. To think that I believed I'd reached the limit of stent comfort with v2! Had I stopped there, I would never have been able to stay incontinent for more than a week, and there would always have been some discomfort with it. Just goes to show we should never stop trying to make things better. I'm hoping for the best with v 3.1 though. So I hope this case inspires you all to keep working on stents! 

it's a fantastic new !

could you share your design and measures,  diameter and length , picture etc... thk you !!

[Catheterslave]

I’m now urine incountaince been long this for 7 days 7 nights because of a stent. Drip nonstop going through 6 to 12 dipping a day use the cheap one at home save the good ones for work. As soon as the urine enters the bladder the urinating happens. No way out now. 

What happens when the bladder shrinks ? 

Do you lose total bladder control? 

Do you urinate more? 

[cathdiap]

My stents never turned around in the urethra. I started working with bends to prevent turning and sliding in or out. If the bends are firm enough I can't think of a force on the stent that will turn it around in the urethra unless the bends are completely outside the natural curves in your urethra. In that case you should try different lengths between the curves in your stent, but at first sight that doesn't seem to be the case with your stents.  My latest stent measures about 6 cm's (2,4 inches)  between the main curves of the stent, being the one of 45 degrees in the bladder and the one of 45 degrees right below the prostate. Then I added an additional 45 degree curve at the bottom of the stent. So the last section of the stent has an angle of 90 degrees to the middle section of the stent. 

This is a drawing of my latest stent:

On 8/24/2019 at 4:20 AM, Catheterslave said:

I’m now urine incountaince been long this for 7 days 7 nights because of a stent. Drip nonstop going through 6 to 12 dipping a day use the cheap one at home save the good ones for work. As soon as the urine enters the bladder the urinating happens. No way out now. 

What happens when the bladder shrinks ? 

Do you lose total bladder control? 

Do you urinate more? 

In the past I have been using stents for six plus months in a row. When I stopped using them I experienced a few days of frequent urinating, but no loss of control. 

 

[finu]

This is my design with the big advantage, that It also works when lying down:

The pipe is a normal water pipe for aquarium. We get it in every pet shop. 
I cut one side several times, bend the tips to the back and fix them for "baking".

I can also get the other bends done by baking: The inside of the tube is filled with aluminium foil so that it remains open during bending. Then I bend the whole tube as I like it and fix it with aluminium foil. 

Baking is: The whole aluminium package goes on the hot plate and is "baked" at full power for approx. 20 seconds per side.

The other end I bend in like the other suggestions. I keep it in place by putting a phillips screwdriver and then heat it using the hot plate. This prevents it from jumping back.

I use dental floss because the fisherman's line caused me pain in the "tip of my cock".

The length is measured at the hand: From the tip of the index finger to the root, where it "branches off" to the thumb. 

[tux22]

Hey @finu

your design partially simulates a "malecot" catheter and looks interesting. I wonder: what makes it different to the other designs to make it work while laying down. This question isn't directed at you personally, I'm just thinking about that.

Does the "baking" sufficiently smooth the edges on the cut, i.e. the inner side or do you smooth them with other methods? I would think that inserting this is a difficult process and very risky when there are still some sharp edges...

Afaik, the aquarium tubes are a bit stiffer than silicone tubes which probably helps with keeping your stent in shape, but I would be hesitant to use this for more than a few hours.

[finu]

I think the other designs problem is that they are hitting the bladder wall when laying wich prevents the urin from flowing out.

After i put "my design" stent in place i had some sort of bladder spasticities for about 5 Minutes. When I do not fight agains them, i do not notice the stent anymore. I beleve that these spasticities are pusching the stent back as far as possible which helps to let getting the urin out why laying.

Its correct that the edges are still pretty sharp. When I out it in, I use aloth K-Y any it only bleeds one little drop. Strangely enough, when I pulled it out I had no burning sensations like if im using the rubber band Methode. I cokld not resist to jerk off before taking it out, maybe that lubricated the stent for pulling it out.

And the fact that it could cut my uretha or even sphyncter is not an unwanted side effect. I know it sounds silly, but this could even bring me closer to my dream beeing real incontinent.

Im looking for a bedder way, but have no Idea right now how to soften these edges.

I did left "my designg" stent i for 6 hours. Im looking forward. I had another backed one with aquarium tube and bendet edges (withouth the cuttet malecot like ending) in for two and a half day. It was such a wonderful feeling to be diaper dependent. I'm looking forward to use this malecot like design for a extended period.

[tux22]

After a some attempts with a few of the designs I settled on this simple one:

(each square is 5mm)

And what can I say, it fits perfectly I put it in yesterday evening and had it in for about 24 hours, only removing it because I had to run some errands I could not attend diapered.

My plans now are to make a new one with about the same dimension, maybe a tiny bit longer. The hole on the inner side (the one in the bladder) seems to help with voiding while laying down and when sitting. Even when driving my car, where I always had trouble to let go, it just dribbles and wets the diaper. I really like that feeling. I will exchange the solid fishing line to a braided one, because it was the one thing which irritated a bit.

Also note, that I have no knots or other things protruding from the stent. Everything in the urethra is totally smooth and I almost don't feel it.

If you have any questions or suggestion, I'm happy to respond or incorporate them

Thanks for everyone on this thread for inspiring me.

[cathdiap]

1 hour ago, tux22 said:

I will exchange the solid fishing line to a braided one, because it was the one thing which irritated a bit.

By the look of it I think your fishing line is a lot thicker than the one I use. Might be the cause of the irritation.

Otherwise, nice stent! Why do you want to make your next stent longer?

[tux22]

It's .4mm solid fishing line, the next will be .2mm braided fishing line, which still can handle more force.

It felt like it wasn't sitting quite perfect and the length between the bents was a bit too short. I'll try to make it maybe .5cm longer

[Ferix]

I've been dabbling with stents for the past 2 years and I wanted to share my design that has worked for me.

 

It's made from a vinyl 18fr cath. The bumps were formed by sealing off the internal end of the cath and then heating the vinyl with a heat gun, in the spots where I want the bumps. After the vinyl is malluable, I blow into the open end of the cath to form the bumps, one bump at a time, similar to how glass blowing is done.

 

The ends were formed by heating each end of the stent so it streches and forms a narrow passage circumferentially on either end of the stent. I cut the stent out at the narrowest part of the stretch then heat the raw edge with the heat gun until it smooths over.

 

The distance between the two bumps was measured to match the thickness of the internal sphincter, so it sits on the internal sphincter like a saddle. The stent is short enough that it completely lives inside the bladder and prostate.

 

It's hard to see in the picture, but there is a retrieval line made from fishing line that I poked through the distal end of the stent, which extends all the way out of the penis and has a silicone ring tied to it.

 

The curve that you see on the stent was formed by wear and not pre-formed before insertion. When I made it, it was straight with 2 bumps, and a retrieval line attached to one end.

 

This stent has been reusable. I'm able to clean it out with a metal straw cleaner (it's like an oversized pipe cleaner) on the inside and by hand on the outside using soap and water. I sterilize it with an alcohol bath before insertion and I use a second catheter and surgilube to insert it. 

 

The longest I've worn it is 10 days but usually, I'll keep it to a day or two and only wear it once every other month or so. Since its mostly inside, it's the least noticeable stent I've tried; There isn't any bumps outside the parineum that I can feel.

 

One of the downsides I've found that it tends to slip inward if I'm sitting on a hard surface like a wood bench, but otherwise it doesnt move around no matter what I do.

 

From another post of mine: I have gotten UTIs from the stent. After one UTI that I went to the doctor for, I ended up getting another one a year later. I decided I wanted to try to fix it myself before going in. I found that I could buy FishMox from the pet store, which is 500mg amoxicillin pills but without the prescription. That cleared the UTI just like the prescription from the doc, but without the appointment and at a fraction of the cost

 

I hope this posts helps others create their own stents and gives them new ideas so they can share with everyone.

[Loveable_guy]

Nice work and a great write up that is clear and precise. I had been thinking using small Foley placed inside of vinyl air line and inflating the balloon while heating the outside of the vinyl tube then deflating after cooling  in hopes of forming a permanent  balloon. I wonder if you were able to make the second bubble large would it stop the migration in to your bladder?

[Alex Bridges]

On 9/26/2019 at 11:23 PM, Ferix said:

I've been dabbling with stents for the past 2 years and I wanted to share my design that has worked for me.

 

It's made from a vinyl 18fr cath. The bumps were formed by sealing off the internal end of the cath and then heating the vinyl with a heat gun, in the spots where I want the bumps. After the vinyl is malluable, I blow into the open end of the cath to form the bumps, one bump at a time, similar to how glass blowing is done.

 

The ends were formed by heating each end of the stent so it streches and forms a narrow passage circumferentially on either end of the stent. I cut the stent out at the narrowest part of the stretch then heat the raw edge with the heat gun until it smooths over.

 

The distance between the two bumps was measured to match the thickness of the internal sphincter, so it sits on the internal sphincter like a saddle. The stent is short enough that it completely lives inside the bladder and prostate.

 

It's hard to see in the picture, but there is a retrieval line made from fishing line that I poked through the distal end of the stent, which extends all the way out of the penis and has a silicone ring tied to it.

 

The curve that you see on the stent was formed by wear and not pre-formed before insertion. When I made it, it was straight with 2 bumps, and a retrieval line attached to one end.

 

This stent has been reusable. I'm able to clean it out with a metal straw cleaner (it's like an oversized pipe cleaner) on the inside and by hand on the outside using soap and water. I sterilize it with an alcohol bath before insertion and I use a second catheter and surgilube to insert it. 

 

The longest I've worn it is 10 days but usually, I'll keep it to a day or two and only wear it once every other month or so. Since its mostly inside, it's the least noticeable stent I've tried; There isn't any bumps outside the parineum that I can feel.

 

One of the downsides I've found that it tends to slip inward if I'm sitting on a hard surface like a wood bench, but otherwise it doesnt move around no matter what I do.

 

From another post of mine: I have gotten UTIs from the stent. After one UTI that I went to the doctor for, I ended up getting another one a year later. I decided I wanted to try to fix it myself before going in. I found that I could buy FishMox from the pet store, which is 500mg amoxicillin pills but without the prescription. That cleared the UTI just like the prescription from the doc, but without the appointment and at a fraction of the cost

 

I hope this posts helps others create their own stents and gives them new ideas so they can share with everyone.

How is the retrieval line attached to the tube?

[Ferix]

On 9/29/2019 at 5:47 AM, Alex Bridges said:

How is the retrieval line attached to the tube?

I use a sewing needle and "stitch" in fishing line. Its hard to see, but in the top picture of my previous post, you can see the retrieval poked through over the number 8.

 

In the attached picture you can see how I poked it through a practice stent. The edge on this stent would be too raw and cut up the urethra if used. I used a heat gun to taper and smooth out raw edges (and before I attached the retrieval line).

 

When I say practice stent, I had to make a lot of stents with trial and error and many of them had mistakes. Working with the heat gun meant mistakes were usually irreparable, so the stents with mistakes I would use to practice new ideas and to hone stent crafting techniques.

 

It took me 5 test catheters just to get down the heating technique, and then another 10 + to test different shapes and sizes of the stent, its length, as well as testing bump size and position until I crafted one that worked.

[and4420]

Well I tried making my first one... It was based on @cathdiap and @tux22 design. It was a minor success. Version 1 was way too long had to take it out after half an hour. Version 2 was made from version 1 but shortened. This one I managed to keep in for approximately 6 hours before there was some irritation. I will shorten the exit end just a little more and it should be quite suitable. I used 6mm OD Silicon tube and 4mm OD Teflon tubing to make the outer and inner pieces; the Teflon being the inner. I used 10lb test line for the retrieval string tied to soft plastic half ring (eyes on either end). I soaked in alcohol between insertions. Now I have to wait for my next set of days off.

 

Also need to figure out to role the ends...

 

[tux22]

@and4420 I got a tip from @boyhood on how to roll over the ends: insert a screw with a large enough diameter in to the tube so it takes the material with it and rolls it over. Then turn the screw to remove it without pulling the rolled end out again. Repeat if necessary. This is almost foolproof and takes no more than 1 minute per side for me.

[cathdiap]

On 10/2/2019 at 12:20 AM, and4420 said:

This one I managed to keep in for approximately 6 hours before there was some irritation.

Not bad for a first time. Did you like the experience of being incontinent? 

[and4420]

I did, I felt close to it with a catheter; this however is definitely different. The stress incontinence side is the most difficult to adapt to though. Especially considering that I started this at the end of a nasty cold so I was coughing every 10 or so minutes.  I've got the next version in which is closer to someone else design; basically 20fr silicon cath with two inserts to force the bends then the end rolled over with a retrieval string. So far so good.

[GrumpyMonk]

Hey, guys. I took a long break, so I forgot a lot about what needed to change for the last stent I made (and have been wearing since last night). It's functional, definitely inserted all the way, is completely smooth, but is almost uncomfortable enough to want to remove. That sounds like a length problem, right?

[Ferix]

On 9/29/2019 at 5:03 AM, Loveable_guy said:

Nice work and a great write up that is clear and precise. I had been thinking using small Foley placed inside of vinyl air line and inflating the balloon while heating the outside of the vinyl tube then deflating after cooling  in hopes of forming a permanent  balloon. I wonder if you were able to make the second bubble large would it stop the migration in to your bladder?

Thanks!  For some reason I didn't see your post until just now.

 

I actually did quite a lot of experimentation on bump size and shape. I tried a larger bump but I couldn't pass it beyond the meatus, which is unfortunate because like you, I also believe it would have stopped the migration into the bladder.

 

Another problem I ran into is that If the bump got too large or elongated, it thins the vinyl, weakening it, causing it to collapse and bend under pressure.

 

I'm sure there's a way we could produce stents from scratch, I just lack some of the knowledge to pull it off. They make all sorts of silicone sounds and catheters that are ribbed, tapered, and uniquely shaped. I imagine they have a mold that they inject silicone into to make their sounds and catheters. How is that process done and can it be done with stents at home?

[qwerty]

In theory, not too hard. Carve something out of wax, flame smooth it and invest it in plaster. Burn the plaster out. At which point you now have a mold you can pour liquid silicone into. Much, much , much harder in practice than in theory. You'll also need a pressure pot or vacuum chamber for best results. The entire setup may cost $150 to get going. Each stent produced afterwards would only cost a couple dollars, but the startup cost is high. Other than that, it can be done at home i guess. There's probably better ways of making molds for silicone, but this is the easiest one that can make a smooth stent which I can think of

[Loveable_guy]

The more you use a stent the less noticeable it becomes. The exception to this is if you take six months off then you have to stat over again but the recovery time is shorten.

[DL_J]

On 9/8/2018 at 12:14 PM, GrumpyMonk said:

@Old_PA Thanks! Hopefully, I'll find an iteration of this stent in which I'm confident enough to leave it in, and then I'll need to use this advice.

@cathdiap Shorten, you think? I'll give it a try for round three. Thanks!

On the topic of length, for the final bit of pushing through the bladder neck during insertion, I have actually been removing my pushing rod and just sort of pinching the urethra closed and working the stent in by hand from the outside, with my thumb on top of and at the base of the penis and my fingers just about behind the scrotum. Once I feel it pop into place/through the bladder sphincter, I can still feel the outer tip of the stent in that area. Is this also the case for any of you with successful designs? (Realizing this, it's understandable that sitting down would pinch the urethra closed and cause a flood upon standing.) I'm not sure how near the outer sphincter should be relative to the outside of the body, which makes me unsure if I should or shouldn't be able to feel a successful stent with my fingers from that spot.

Regarding the malecots, I found a local surgical supplies reseller. Small business, local pickup, probably thought it was weird when I said I wasn't with some medical institution, but in the end I suppose it wasn't a problem. If it's relevant, I had been pretty close to ordering some on ebay. Might be worth keeping an eye out.

how does the malecot not migrate into the bladder fully?..  I like these ideas I want to try using a malecot and cut the length of it so I can retrieve it with some medical clamps  so make it long enough it doesnt exist the penis and be obvious but still wont be able to fully retreat into the bladder itself.   

is this a possibility? or should I rethink this whole thing.

 

thanks

[boyhood]

I wanted to take a moment to talk about our anatomy a little more. I notice this isn't covered much. The appropriate stent placement is a pretty complicated thing.

The anatomy diagrams I've found are - even from reliable sources - accurate for shape but a bad representation of what we need to know as stent designers. One thing that is custom to all humans is the distance between our sphincters but even this fluctuates by as much as a half inch in various movements. Think of when you do a natural Kegel exercise, aka tighten and relax your pelvic floor muscles... when the stent is placed appropriately, the retrieval line length will contract in & out showing you this fluctuation during the process of this exercise.

Everyone knows the entrance end of the stent must be anchored in the bladder opening, but the other end is much more complicated. That's mostly what I wanted to talk about.

To begin, here is a $2400 model purportedly built to "real-world scale"... let's figure this out a little better.

I think the only sources we should legitimately trust are of actual human anatomy, not diagrams. Also why I have posted this cadaver photo in the past:

I know that's gross, but let's be honest, you're the one reading this thread. Now add these next bits to your knowledge bank:

Below are a few useful portions of a video practicing urethral dilatation with fluoroscopic guidance (front right angle looking in, see the pubic bone for reference).

16fr dilation:

18fr dilation:

Notice how flexible & gradual this curve actually is? This gradual shape becomes even more-so when a person is laying down. This is the first point I wanted to make when considering how/whether to configure a bottom bend and likely why I've found my O-Ring designs WITHOUT bends to be the most comfortable. Think about it, sit-ups etc... with all the positions the urethra takes on from human movements, how could a stent bend in this region be perfectly comfortable (in all of them)? Even the simple act of laying down will make the shape of the urethra much more gradual than sitting. So in one position or another, a bend design is going to constantly put force on a single side of your urethral wall.

OK then comes the next largest question, without a bottom bend, how are we to possibly anchor the stent in to prevent inward migration?

Designs should anchor within the Bulbar Urethra. This is where successful stent designs (even with bends) have been anchored. Why here? IT WIDENS before heading up to the external sphincter (membranous urethra). Notice below that when the urethra is first injected with lubricant at the beginning of the procedure, the bulbar urethra within the deep perineal pouch inflates.

Referencing back to the 18fr dilation, notice how much force was required to pass the dilators past the bulbar urethra? The Magic Anchor Point!

I am still a big fan of the O-Ring design. Below is my newest version from a few weeks ago, using new thicker (1/4"OD, 1/8"ID) Platinum Cured Silicone & thinner-wall PTFE (Teflon).

All holes/ends were punched and sanded with a cheap Dremel w/ "932" sanding attachment that works perfectly-- no more folding ends in or sharp edges anywhere!

 I will likely make two improvements to the above for my next version:

1) Eliminate the bottom bend-- there is no way this is helping my design.
2) Pull bottom O-Ring through 50/50% just like the top O-Ring-- of course, hoping it ends up in the bulbar urethra.

O-Rings rock! However, insertion and removal can be tight without the right size Teflon tubing in the middle (which keeps the O-Rings from plugging the flow). I recommend using a Teflon wall that is 0.20mm - 0.50mm. The above used a 0.50mm Teflon wall (4mm OD / 3mm ID), but 0.20mm is much more flexible for insertion and removal. The fluctuation in urethral length can also be accounted for by the minimal amount of movement anchored O-Rings provide.

Hope we can all here continue to work together to make the most intelligent stent designs for as safe of use as possible!

[Catheterslave]

How many issues people had on getting in a fix putting in those home made stent inside your urethral?? Be honest now. 

[pprinces]

Wow, this is a very interesting topic.
Also I have the kink to having a stent locked in my urethra for incontinence.

Just came across an interesting product. www.thespanner.com
It seems tricky to get this stent purchased. So I try some attempts with my folleys.
Greets