My experience with stents

[Fakename4me]

9 hours ago, austmo said:

I will have a small back surgery next week. This will be a day surgery. For my examination before this surgery I wore the stent and pull-ups covered by a clear plastic pant.  

What do you guys suggest I wear for the surgery, it will be general anesthesia. Should I remove the stent, and use diapers, or condom catheter?  Should I insert a catheter?

Suggestions are appreciated. 

You should probably talk with the doctor about this.  I am sure that they will not be expecting the gear you have!

[Diapered Dave]

I know two people who went in for surgery, and both were catharized AFTER they were put under. They woke up, and it was like, "Hey! when was this tube put up my winky?!?!?"

So if you wear a stent there, and they try to cath you, it might turn out bad, or at least embarrassing!!

[austmo]

Thanks for the advice. I think will go for a pull-up, as I'm diagnosed with an overaktiv bladder. 

[deewet]

Last time I was in for a procedure I insisted that they not put a cath in me as an earlier experience resulted in more pain and trouble from the cath than from the procedure itself.  It did work and I was in cheap hospital diapers prior to being discharged, but did avoid the pain from a poor insertion or removal of a cath.

[austmo]

I decided to go with a catheter. Now one mention anything about it before the surgery, and I woke up with a bag connected. The bag was removed from the valve before I left the hospital.  

Had to go back to the hospital today, cause I felt I didn't feel any urge to pee at all last night, but even I opened the catheter I voided about 1 liter of urine.

They requested me to wear leg bag to ensure drainage of the bladder to avoid kidney damage. I also hook up to a night bag at night. 

As urine retention is quite common after a surgery like I had, I was requested to wear it for a week. 

I will reinsert the stent after that.

 

 

 

[Loveable_guy]

On 3/21/2022 at 8:03 AM, cathdiap said:

A small update on sleeping with a stent in and a diaper on. I hardly wake up these days from the peeing itself, but I do wake up when the diaper I'm wearing gets noriceably wet. And it's hard for me to fall back asleep after that. So lately I often have to change at night, even if the diaper is not completely saturated yet. I fall asleep much easier after changing. I just hope I will one day manage to sleep the whole night through without changing. 

 

I find the same issue. For me I believe its fear of wetting the bed that wakes me and prevents me from getting back to sleep until I change in to something dry.

[Bluedbk]

I have tried all the links to your video/tutorial do you have one that works? Thanks in advance

[cathdiap]

On 6/16/2022 at 11:22 PM, Bluedbk said:

I have tried all the links to your video/tutorial do you have one that works? Thanks in advance

No, somehow the website has made it impossible for me as well to open my video. Unfortunately this was the only location I put the video. It's no longer on my computer either. Sorry. 

[cathdiap]

On 6/16/2022 at 4:30 PM, Loveable_guy said:

I find the same issue. For me I believe its fear of wetting the bed that wakes me and prevents me from getting back to sleep until I change in to something dry.

Yeah I think you're right. Also, I find that wetting my diaper in bed feels more unnatural than wetting it when I am out of bed. Maybe because it feels like soiling the nest.

[Ferix]

Alright, so I'm preparing to make another attempt at stent play. I haven't had the best luck at doing it safely and I want to double check with all those who regularly are successful at using stents on the following:

How do clean your stents? For my current stent, I plan on washing with soap and water first, then placing the stent in boiling water for 5 minutes, then removing it and air drying with a heat gun.

What do you use for a retrieval line? I've used fishing line but I don't like how rigid it is or how it can "dig in" if the end gets snagged. I've also used floss and liked that better comfort wise. Both methods resulted in successful stent sessions as well as sessions that ended in UTIs.

How do you prepare yourself? I'll wash myself with soap and water and wipe all areas I'm handling while I handle the stent with alcohol.

My current stent design has 2 stainless steel ends and a silicone tube. Here's my current stent design: 

I have yet attached a retrieval line but I plan on doing so once I'm able to gather as much information as I can and make an informed decision.

[GrumpyMonk]

3 hours ago, Ferix said:

Alright, so I'm preparing to make another attempt at stent play. I haven't had the best luck at doing it safely and I want to double check with all those who regularly are successful at using stents on the following:

How do clean your stents? For my current stent, I plan on washing with soap and water first, then placing the stent in boiling water for 5 minutes, then removing it and air drying with a heat gun.

What do you use for a retrieval line? I've used fishing line but I don't like how rigid it is or how it can "dig in" if the end gets snagged. I've also used floss and liked that better comfort wise. Both methods resulted in successful stent sessions as well as sessions that ended in UTIs.

How do you prepare yourself? I'll wash myself with soap and water and wipe all areas I'm handling while I handle the stent with alcohol.

My current stent design has 2 stainless steel ends and a silicone tube. Here's my current stent design: 

I have yet attached a retrieval line but I plan on doing so once I'm able to gather as much information as I can and make an informed decision.

Hey, Ferix. Hopefully others with a more complete history all around can chime in for you, but I've experimented enough to have experience and with prototyping for safety and avoiding UTIs. I'll share my methods.

 

Cleaning: Definitely wash with soap and water to clear off solid, dried, and/or stuck-on particulates. After that, I submerge everything in ~70% isopropyl alcohol (apparently it's better than higher concentrations for disinfection), then the boiling water which helps to rinse and evaporate the alcohol as well as possibly getting microbes which might've survived the alcohol for whatever reason.

The hot air gun idea makes me nervous for you. I'd be worried that it could easily reintroduce things which you'd have otherwise just cleaned off. Passive air drying seems less risky. If I recall, the guy at siliconenozzles.com actually recommends a fresh paper towel and an unopened Ziploc bag for storage at this step.

 

Retrieval: At some point, someone here suggested braided fishing line instead of monofilament for comfort and safety, and I agree. My personal trouble was trying to find one without green dye to help disguise it for wary fish. Dental floss has never given me enough confidence to try, but seems to work for some. Similar to fishing line, avoid flavors, dyes, etc.

Structurally, I love the simplicity of your design. If those steel end caps are as familiar as they look, then the threads aren't very sharp, right? You'd be relying a lot more on a friction fit than the threads actually digging into the silicone to stay in place. If it takes less than about ten pounds of force to pull one end out of the tube, that might be cause for concern. If it seems stable, I'd try for redundant safety by running your line through the whole tube, then looping it around the outside of an end bead, and finally back into the tube going back the way it came in. It might compromise the friction fit element, but would be much safer in the event that things come loose while you're wearing it since everything should still come out by pulling the line.

 

Preparation: I go HAM and usually use a cath insertion kit, but have also used makeshift supplies to kinda DIY it. Benzalkonium chloride wipes after washing with soap and water, a sterile water-based lube (less urethral trauma should mean lower infection risk), and being really careful about what touches what before everything is in place.

 

Sorry this reply turned into a novel, but I hope it gives you some helpful ideas about how best to move forward as safety as you can. Best of luck to you.

[Ferix]

Hey @GrumpyMonk, thanks for the reply

 

3 hours ago, GrumpyMonk said:

Cleaning: Definitely wash with soap and water to clear off solid, dried, and/or stuck-on particulates. After that, I submerge everything in ~70% isopropyl alcohol (apparently it's better than higher concentrations for disinfection), then the boiling water which helps to rinse and evaporate the alcohol as well as possibly getting microbes which might've survived the alcohol for whatever reason.

That all makes sense and seems abundantly safe. I've also heard that 70% alcohol works better than 99%. I'll add that to my process.

3 hours ago, GrumpyMonk said:

The hot air gun idea makes me nervous for you. I'd be worried that it could easily reintroduce things which you'd have otherwise just cleaned off. Passive air drying seems less risky. If I recall, the guy at siliconenozzles.com actually recommends a fresh paper towel and an unopened Ziploc bag for storage at this step.

I was considering this step as an extra precaution as the heat gun gets temperatures hotter than an autoclave, so I figured it would dry and sterilize at the same time. However, it seems like the heat gun is overkill plus risky if you're able to do without. My other thought was to air dry in the oven, similar to what a heat autoclave would do. I can accept that a zipper bag and paper towel would work since the stent should be sterile at that point and it works for you.

3 hours ago, GrumpyMonk said:

Retrieval: At some point, someone here suggested braided fishing line instead of monofilament for comfort and safety, and I agree. My personal trouble was trying to find one without green dye to help disguise it for wary fish. Dental floss has never given me enough confidence to try, but seems to work for some. Similar to fishing line, avoid flavors, dyes, etc.

Braided fishing line sounds great. I'll have to try that and find one without any dye.

3 hours ago, GrumpyMonk said:

Structurally, I love the simplicity of your design. If those steel end caps are as familiar as they look, then the threads aren't very sharp, right? You'd be relying a lot more on a friction fit than the threads actually digging into the silicone to stay in place. If it takes less than about ten pounds of force to pull one end out of the tube, that might be cause for concern. If it seems stable, I'd try for redundant safety by running your line through the whole tube, then looping it around the outside of an end bead, and finally back into the tube going back the way it came in. It might compromise the friction fit element, but would be much safer in the event that things come loose while you're wearing it since everything should still come out by pulling the line.

The steel cap screws aren't sharp but it takes a lot of friction to apply and remove them, probably more than needed to slip off. Even then, I plan on feeding the retrieval line through the end cap and through a couple holes I punch in the silicone so that the whole stent is pulled back by pulling on the retrieval line. Here's a diagram that illustrates how I plan on doing that:

4 hours ago, GrumpyMonk said:

Preparation: I go HAM and usually use a cath insertion kit, but have also used makeshift supplies to kinda DIY it. Benzalkonium chloride wipes after washing with soap and water, a sterile water-based lube (less urethral trauma should mean lower infection risk), and being really careful about what touches what before everything is in place.

That all makes sense. My method has been similar except I've been using sterile alcohol prep pads. I use surgilube to lubricate as it's waterbased, sterile, and bacteriostatic.

 

Thanks so much for your input and I welcome any more.

[doogles]

I recommend VERY strongly against using this design, but I am too tired to go into more detail than: your retrieval line design will curl the proximal end of the stent, doubling over your whole apparatus. I can't overstate how serious I am.

[Ferix]

7 hours ago, doogles said:

I recommend VERY strongly against using this design, but I am too tired to go into more detail than: your retrieval line design will curl the proximal end of the stent, doubling over your whole apparatus. I can't overstate how serious I am.

Thanks for the warning. This is something I can test before I insert the stent. If the retrieval line in the diagram curls the end of the stent, I can easily rework the retrieval line so that it doesn't curl the end. 

[doogles]

Okay, with a little more time, more thoughts/concerns:

 

1 - Curling of stent. I used the same idea of looping through the distal end of my stents because basic knot theory tells you that harsher angles in lines will compromise the integrity of any knot/line. Looping through an existing hole is less harsh than finding a good place to anchor your line. Further, it can help distribute tension. These are true, but if your stent curls at the end at a severe enough angle, your stent turns into a literal hook inside your bladder. This is almost a guarantee if you have reactive sphincter muscles. It is much simpler than other designs, but it isn't fail-safe. Your best bet is to anchor near the distal end of your stent with some mechanism to taper down from that end to your retrieval line. Anything too harsh will cause that "cutting" feeling you mentioned. I use a ~2mm hollow rubber tube and thread my line through that. I use two independent 20-lb test lines. Strong enough to withstand an unreasonable amount of weight.

2 - Stent heads. You have two heads screwed, I think, into a polymer tube. Personally, I wouldn't assemble any stent where ANYTHING could come off in the bladder. If it does, that's an instant ER trip. I can't risk it.

3 - Retention. I'm not sure how this will stay in place. All other stents here have a bend to take advantage of the male anatomy. The bulbous ends are usually a preventative measure to prevent internal migration, and the distal end is larger to underline this. The best one I've seen was that titanium one shown on one of the previous pages. Most angles are between 90 and 120ish. An acute angle might push into tissue if you sit down.

4 - Preparation. I hesitate to use boiling water because temperature might change the fitting of parts, but I do use a 70% isopropyl soak. After that, I treat it as sterile, rinse with DI, lube, proceed. I don't seem to get UTIs, so my methods are more relaxed. YMMV.

 

I'm curious to see what comes of this, though.

[Ferix]

4 hours ago, doogles said:

1 - Curling of stent. I used the same idea of looping through the distal end of my stents because basic knot theory tells you that harsher angles in lines will compromise the integrity of any knot/line. Looping through an existing hole is less harsh than finding a good place to anchor your line. Further, it can help distribute tension. These are true, but if your stent curls at the end at a severe enough angle, your stent turns into a literal hook inside your bladder. This is almost a guarantee if you have reactive sphincter muscles. It is much simpler than other designs, but it isn't fail-safe. Your best bet is to anchor near the distal end of your stent with some mechanism to taper down from that end to your retrieval line. Anything too harsh will cause that "cutting" feeling you mentioned. I use a ~2mm hollow rubber tube and thread my line through that. I use two independent 20-lb test lines. Strong enough to withstand an unreasonable amount of weight.

I tested the stent with a monofilament fishing line and had some curling with the retrieval line setup as how I described in my first diagram. I changed up how I fed the line through the holes and now there's even less curling. Both ways did not seem to cause enough curling for concern but it's better to have the least amount of curling. The cutting feeling I was referring to was the line snagging on the tip of the penis, monofilament fishing line was not very forgiving if shifted around it seemed.

4 hours ago, doogles said:

2 - Stent heads. You have two heads screwed, I think, into a polymer tube. Personally, I wouldn't assemble any stent where ANYTHING could come off in the bladder. If it does, that's an instant ER trip. I can't risk it.

It's stainless steel screwed into a silicone tubing (as originally stated). The grip of the screws into the silicone tubing are in my opinion greater than is needed to prevent it from coming apart. This is proven by my testing, you'll just have to take my word for it. Additionally, I'm wrapping the retrieval line around the proximal end so that the retrieval line is fed through every part as a fail safe for if it does come apart.

 

4 hours ago, doogles said:

3 - Retention. I'm not sure how this will stay in place. All other stents here have a bend to take advantage of the male anatomy. The bulbous ends are usually a preventative measure to prevent internal migration, and the distal end is larger to underline this. The best one I've seen was that titanium one shown on one of the previous pages. Most angles are between 90 and 120ish. An acute angle might push into tissue if you sit down.

The stent will stay in place because the bumps are 10 mm in diameter and the silicone tubing is 6 mm in diameter. This will work similar to how a catheter balloon works by preventing the ends from passing through the internal sphincter muscle. I've used a similar method successfully with a different stent design.

 

4 hours ago, doogles said:

4 - Preparation. I hesitate to use boiling water because temperature might change the fitting of parts, but I do use a 70% isopropyl soak. After that, I treat it as sterile, rinse with DI, lube, proceed. I don't seem to get UTIs, so my methods are more relaxed. YMMV.

I tested this warning out since your message by boiling the stent in water for 10 minutes and had no difference in fit with the silicone tubing and the metal ends; the grip is still just as strong.

[sandiaper]

3 hours ago, Ferix said:

I tested the stent with a monofilament fishing line and had some curling with the retrieval line setup as how I described in my first diagram. I changed up how I fed the line through the holes and now there's even less curling. Both ways did not seem to cause enough curling for concern but it's better to have the least amount of curling. The cutting feeling I was referring to was the line snagging on the tip of the penis, monofilament fishing line was not very forgiving if shifted around it seemed.

It's stainless steel screwed into a silicone tubing (as originally stated). The grip of the screws into the silicone tubing are in my opinion greater than is needed to prevent it from coming apart. This is proven by my testing, you'll just have to take my word for it. Additionally, I'm wrapping the retrieval line around the proximal end so that the retrieval line is fed through every part as a fail safe for if it does come apart.

 

The stent will stay in place because the bumps are 10 mm in diameter and the silicone tubing is 6 mm in diameter. This will work similar to how a catheter balloon works by preventing the ends from passing through the internal sphincter muscle. I've used a similar method successfully with a different stent design.

 

I tested this warning out since your message by boiling the stent in water for 10 minutes and had no difference in fit with the silicone tubing and the metal ends; the grip is still just as strong.

I have done tests with ends of different sizes, but there is always a conclusion.  If you have been able to insert it into the bladder, the reflex force exerted by the sphincter to want to urinate causes it to come out or, at the very least, the feeling that you have something there that wants to come out.  The best designs so far are by making a bend in the tube, as this will cause it to grip the bladder wall.  I have a new design in mind that involves a double tube, I hope to have the design this weekend.

[cathdiap]

On 7/8/2022 at 8:19 AM, sandiaper said:

have done tests with ends of different sizes, but there is always a conclusion.  If you have been able to insert it into the bladder, the reflex force exerted by the sphincter to want to urinate causes it to come out or, at the very least, the feeling that you have something there that wants to come out.  The best designs so far are by making a bend in the tube, as this will cause it to grip the bladder wall.  I have a new design in mind that involves a double tube, I hope to have the design this weekend.

I agree, bends in the stent work best for me as well to keep it in place. It took me a lot of effort and time to find the right shape and sizes but now that I have it pays of very well. So easy to insert, so comfortable to wear and so effective. Sometimes I really think the kind of incontinence that my stents induce may be even better than the real complete incontinence. I can feel everything around the bladder is working and signaling like it should but nonetheless it is completely impossible to not leak. My current stent is so perfectly shaped that there is absolutely no friction in the bladder or the urethra so I can keep it in for weeks on end without any discomfort (aside from the constant wet diapers that is).

On a side note, for the nights I am currently using Better Dry diapers instead of the Seni Quattro. So far I think they are doing a better job helping me through the night without leaking. I also notice I don't wake up as much during the night anymore, I think it is because they don't feel as wet as the Seni's with the same amount of pee in it. Helps me a lot to wake up more rested than I used to. And I like it waking up in a soaked diaper and really having no memory of how and when it happened during the night.

[Ferix]

This is really interesting insight.

 

I've tried making stents with bends multiple times. No matter the shape or degree of bends, the stent seemed to come out on its own or slip inward. I may try using bends again if my current design is uncomfortable. I have yet to test out my current stent design: I ordered some braided fishing line to use as retrieval which should arrive later this week.

 

My current stent design is based on an earlier stent design of mine; It had bumps formed into the material and the bumps would prevent the stent from passing through the internal sphincter. That stent was pretty comfortable and I had it in for 10 days at one point.

 

The bend in the stent was formed from wearing it for long periods, it was originally straight like the catheter above. What was nice about the old stent design is that it didn't extend beyond the bend of the urethra so it was completely internal. I'm hoping to get a similar experience with my current stent design.

[GrumpyMonk]

On 7/7/2022 at 10:30 PM, Ferix said:

I tested the stent with a monofilament fishing line and had some curling with the retrieval line setup as how I described in my first diagram. I changed up how I fed the line through the holes and now there's even less curling. Both ways did not seem to cause enough curling for concern but it's better to have the least amount of curling. The cutting feeling I was referring to was the line snagging on the tip of the penis, monofilament fishing line was not very forgiving if shifted around it seemed.

It's stainless steel screwed into a silicone tubing (as originally stated). The grip of the screws into the silicone tubing are in my opinion greater than is needed to prevent it from coming apart. This is proven by my testing, you'll just have to take my word for it. Additionally, I'm wrapping the retrieval line around the proximal end so that the retrieval line is fed through every part as a fail safe for if it does come apart.

 

The stent will stay in place because the bumps are 10 mm in diameter and the silicone tubing is 6 mm in diameter. This will work similar to how a catheter balloon works by preventing the ends from passing through the internal sphincter muscle. I've used a similar method successfully with a different stent design.

 

I tested this warning out since your message by boiling the stent in water for 10 minutes and had no difference in fit with the silicone tubing and the metal ends; the grip is still just as strong.

Similar to doogles' initial reaction, I'm about to fall asleep, but wanted to say that your alternate retrieval line illustration is clever but I think much less safe.

In your original pic, the line was looped around the proximal end cap such that the line itself would have to break for catastrophe to strike. In your second pic, the line would only have to cut through the silicone to wind up with a similar result. Of course, I'm not tugging on and testing things for added confidence, but I wanted to throw the idea out there for consideration.

[derpywhooves94]

@Ferix where did u get the stainless steel ends at 

[sandiaper]

At last I have finished the design that I commented a few days ago. The best thing about this design is that the retrieval line is inside the tube, without interfering with the flow of urine, as well as hooking all the elements that can come loose. Both ends have a silicone sphere of medical material crossed by a tube. In turn, this had is surrounded by another in the middle. If a design with a curve is desired, a third piece of rigid curved tube could be introduced. The green line is the recovery line, which goes through the 2 balls and leaves the inner outer tube anchored.

[cathdiap]

@sandiaperVery nice design! Looking forward to the first prototype. So did you actually find a supplier of these medical grade silicone spheres? If so would you be so kind to share some info as to where you can buy them??

[sandiaper]

3 hours ago, cathdiap said:

@sandiaperVery nice design! Looking forward to the first prototype. So did you actually find a supplier of these medical grade silicone spheres? If so would you be so kind to share some info as to where you can buy them??

I have only been able to find food grade.  But I think it can help.  I have found them on aliexpress.

[cathdiap]

On 7/13/2022 at 9:31 PM, sandiaper said:

I have only been able to find food grade.  But I think it can help.  I have found them on aliexpress.

Are these the ones that you found on AliExpress? They seem to be molds for small crystal balls.