My experience with stents

[cathdiap]

I don’t know if using a stent will alleviate the symptoms of OAB. A wild guess would be NO as the stent will touch the lining of the bladder regularly, which in your case will already be sensitive. Maybe it will be less painful as every contraction of the bladder will lead to instant release of the urine.

Sex is possible when using a stent. An orgasm will be quite intense though and also you, your bed and your partner will get wet as soon as you put of your diaper even when your private part is in an erect state.

I hope you will find a way to get rid of your OAB, it must be very debilitating. 

[InD]

On 1/5/2022 at 12:11 AM, sjaeger said:

Does this stop:

Urgency
Cramping
Bladder Vibrations

As trying to get into a Urologist for 2 years now previous Urologist didnt want to do anything and just stated OAB and caused by spine and I cant deal with these sensations anymore

Also are you able to be sexual as well

Something to discuss with doctor if I ever see one
 

Your best best for a overactive bladder is probably Botox injections or medication.  That said, if you are having urine retention issues (which I doubt since your kidneys would probably be shot waiting two years) intermittent catheterization might help.  Which would, in theory, mean a stent might work.
Of course a DIY carries lots of risks, so would never suggest you go that route unless it was also for play.  Personally, I feel anyone who is considering making a stent should have solid experience with catheter play beforehand to better understand what's happening, but that's me.

Good luck, and call a few more doctors!

[cathdiap]

Time for a new experiment. I am still aiming for a stent that doesn’t need a retrieval line but so far only one of my first stents was completely immovable once in place. Why on earth did I ever decide to throw that ugly thing away. I miss you buddy. ? ?

It is so much fun being unable to remove the stent when you are out in public. I think it is the closest you can get to real incontinence. 

My current way of making stents works fine in terms of comfort and incontinence, but no matter how much I tweak the shapes, curves and measurements of the inner plastic tubing inside the silicone outer tubing, the stents can still migrate when put under pressure in weird positions.

So my plan is now to put titanium dumbell shaped piercings through the silicone tubing at the spot just below the outer sphincter. Hopefully this will anchor the stent under all circumstances whilst remaining comfortable and effective. 

The picture above shows the piercing. The balls on both ends can be unscrewed from the rod so the holes that have to be punched in the silicone tube can be as wide as the rod itself (1 mm). After screwing back the balls (each 3 mm wide) there will be little chance the piercing will come lose from the stent. On the distal side of the stent I will no longer use plastic tubing on the inside. This allows me to keep the piercing tilted against the stent during insertion through the meatus. I expect the piercing to return to its angled position once it is in the wider part of the urethra (bulbous urethra) and anchor the stent when reaching the outer sphincter. The length of the rod is exactly 6 mm, just as wide as the diameter of the silicone tube. So in total the anchor will be 3+6+3 = 12 mm wide. I hope this will prevent the stent from passing the sphincter and still be comfortable enough to wear for 3 - 4 days.

The top of the stent will remain curved as usual by using plastic inner tubing  No need to change that as I have never experienced the stent sliding out of the bladder. At first I will use a retrieval line and use the stent in all possible ways and positions that I know put a stent at risk to migrate. Only when I am absolutely sure the stent will not slide into the bladder, will I remove the retrieval line and finally enjoy irreversible incontinence again whenever I am out in public.

I have ordered all needed materials just a few moments ago. So I will have to wait a few days before I can check whether or not my concept will work. I will keep you guys informed about the results.

 

 

[sandiaper]

24 minutes ago, cathdiap said:

Time for a new experiment. I am still aiming for a stent that doesn’t need a retrieval line but so far only one of my first stents was completely immovable once in place. Why on earth did I ever decide to throw that ugly thing away. I miss you buddy. ? ?

It is so much fun being unable to remove the stent when you are out in public. I think it is the closest you can get to real incontinence. 

My current way of making stents works fine in terms of comfort and incontinence, but no matter how much I tweak the shapes, curves and measurements of the inner plastic tubing inside the silicone outer tubing, the stents can still migrate when put under pressure in weird positions.

So my plan is now to put titanium dumbell shaped piercings through the silicone tubing at the spot just below the outer sphincter. Hopefully this will anchor the stent under all circumstances whilst remaining comfortable and effective. 

The picture above shows the piercing. The balls on both ends can be unscrewed from the rod so the holes that have to be punched in the silicone tube can be as wide as the rod itself (1 mm). After screwing back the balls (each 3 mm wide) there will be little chance the piercing will come lose from the stent. On the distal side of the stent I will no longer use plastic tubing on the inside. This allows me to keep the piercing tilted against the stent during insertion through the meatus. I expect the piercing to return to its angled position once it is in the wider part of the urethra (bulbous urethra) and anchor the stent when reaching the outer sphincter. The length of the rod is exactly 6 mm, just as wide as the diameter of the silicone tube. So in total the anchor will be 3+6+3 = 12 mm wide. I hope this will prevent the stent from passing the sphincter and still be comfortable enough to wear for 3 - 4 days.

The top of the stent will remain curved as usual by using plastic inner tubing  No need to change that as I have never experienced the stent sliding out of the bladder. At first I will use a retrieval line and use the stent in all possible ways and positions that I know put a stent at risk to migrate. Only when I am absolutely sure the stent will not slide into the bladder, will I remove the retrieval line and finally enjoy irreversible incontinence again whenever I am out in public.

I have ordered all needed materials just a few moments ago. So I will have to wait a few days before I can check whether or not my concept will work. I will keep you guys informed about the results.

 

 

I do not understand exactly where the bar of the piercing and the ball are placed.  Are you going to go through the tube directly with the piercing?  That would make an irregular shape and too large to be inserted.  In my case, I can't insert something bigger than 9mm through the meatus (CH27). I have a prototype already created, very similar to the one you explain, although I haven't tried it yet.  In my case I have used a silicone ball (9mm in diameter) that is crossed by a silicone tube.

[cathdiap]

Sorry for my poor explanation, my English is a little off I guess. 

The rod will go across the silicone tube, diametrical, with one ball on both sides of the tube. So the balls will be on the outside of the stent.

Yes this will make an irregular shape which I hope will act like an anchor of the stent when the balls of the piercing reach the outer sphincter.

Insertion will only work if I the piercing is tilted in a way that the direction of the bar is parallel to the stent. I will have to pinch the piercing and the silicone tube between thumb and forefinger to make it small enough to enter the meatus.

I hope this makes sense.

[sandiaper]

27 minutes ago, cathdiap said:

Sorry for my poor explanation, my English is a little off I guess. 

The rod will go across the silicone tube, diametrical, with one ball on both sides of the tube. So the balls will be on the outside of the stent.

Yes this will make an irregular shape which I hope will act like an anchor of the stent when the balls of the piercing reach the outer sphincter.

Insertion will only work if I the piercing is tilted in a way that the direction of the bar is parallel to the stent. I will have to pinch the piercing and the silicone tube between thumb and forefinger to make it small enough to enter the meatus.

I hope this makes sense.

I still think that the diameter of the tube + the 2 balls is too big for the urethra.  Isn't it easier to use balls like this? (attached image). It is made of food grade silicone and comes in various sizes.

[cathdiap]

 

7 minutes ago, sandiaper said:

I still think that the diameter of the tube + the 2 balls is too big for the urethra.

Well, I am pretty old and I have been abusing my urethra for quite a while now, so I think I am loose enough down there (except for the meatus) to make it work, but only time will tell. Thanks for your suggestion, if my plan doesn’t work I will consider your option.

[boyhood]

Sounds like an interesting idea! I spent a stent record (2 weeks) in diapers after Thanksgiving this year using the trusty silicone o-ring method discussed in this thread but am also constantly thinking about new engineering ideas.

No model has yet allowed me to wet while laying down so I have still been unable to fulfill this dream of wetting the bed. I think the problem is that because gravity is no longer in our favor, the bladder's detrusor muscle must operate / be activated to help squeeze out the urine, akin to real bedwetting, requiring the body to have a nerve impulse to void.

As everything with my stents work perfectly fine the second I stand up, I just really would like to find a solution that works at night as well.

[cathdiap]

@boyhoodso you don’t wet at all when laying in bed? 

[sjaeger]

Came across this the other day

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24419714/

Which I am thinking about asking as deemed medically unable to self cath (Learning disability, Autism, Essential tremor in hands 

[boyhood]

13 hours ago, cathdiap said:

@boyhoodso you don’t wet at all when laying in bed? 

Nope, for some reason, it's probably easier to void laying down without a stent quite honestly. Almost requires me to push a little to succeed with one in. But if I sit/stand up and let gravity bring the urine to the neck of the bladder it's instant wetting, so I know the placement is right.

Any ideas? I'm still really interested to know that your designs seem to work in any position, especially at night. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong to achieve the same.

[sandiaper]

38 minutes ago, boyhood said:

Nope, for some reason, it's probably easier to void laying down without a stent quite honestly. Almost requires me to push a little to succeed with one in. But if I sit/stand up and let gravity bring the urine to the neck of the bladder it's instant wetting, so I know the placement is right.

Any ideas? I'm still really interested to know that your designs seem to work in any position, especially at night. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong to achieve the same.

To me the same thing happens to me.  I think there is no way to fix it.  You can't fight gravity if there's nothing to control urine retention or passage.

[cathdiap]

Of course gravity is out of the game when you are laying in bed, but the difference in pressure between the bladder and the air in my diaper does the job for me, albeit that the wetting will start a little later and the flow will be a little weaker compared to a standing position.

The things that could neutralize the force due to the difference in pressure can be:

-blockage of the urethra in the penis (eg when sleeping on the belly or wearing a very tight diaper)

-the draining hole of the stent reaches too far in the bladder so the pee cannot reach it

-the top of the stent pulls back inside the bladder neck closing off the drain hole

-the bladder wall closes the drain hole.

That is all I can think of.  I hope you will find a solution 

[Loveable_guy]

On 1/11/2022 at 10:09 AM, cathdiap said:

 

Well, I am pretty old

Watch those old stuff comments, I have 12 years on you youngster.

On a brighter note I love your stent designs and have followed your work over the years. Looking forward to hearing how this new design works out. Please be sure to post updates for us.

Good to see some fresh activity on this subject too. Stay healthy all.

[InD]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:51 AM, cathdiap said:

It is so much fun being unable to remove the stent when you are out in public. I think it is the closest you can get to real incontinence

This!  I completely agree.   When I was using the 6mm titanium tubing it ended up at about 9.5mm across at the fold-over (almost a 30 FR).  This required stretching with sounds to insert and remove.  While it could be a pain, it was awesome to know I could not remove it easily or at whim.  

[doogles]

I finally happened to me. I had to go to the hospital to get my stent removed.

 

I, like a lot of other people here, believed that I had enough experience to avoid it, but my body had other ideas. I was using a stent based on a 24 fr catheter with a retrieval line (around 10cm) that had two steel beads. The line retracted and became unreachable, but I'd experienced that before. Using a looped wire tool, I'd been able to snare them for retrieval. Not this time. In addition, something else was WRONG.

 

I have no idea how, but the stent had become folded AND reversed. At the end of my solo efforts, I could feel the tip of the catheter folded over in my urethra. It wasn't going anywhere, and every time I urinated (without being able to stop it, even) I experienced awful bladder spasms. I decided to go to the hospital in the later afternoon.

 

Once there, I began the first of many humiliating experiences: telling person after person that I had a bladder obstruction. Then I told the doctor what exactly the obstruction was. There weren't many questions on why, but I told them that I use stents as a coping mechanism for trauma I have experienced (which is the ugly truth). Everyone I talked to was very understanding and kind; more so than I feel I deserved. I hated that I took up the time of these professionals who are already swamped with COVID. After five or so hours and a CT scan, I was told that they didn't even have the equipment needed to extract the stent. I was given two options: go to the bigger city hospital and hope that a gang of interns can yank it out, or wait another couple of days and schedule Operating Room time with the Attending at the big city hospital. I chose to go right away.

 

Go home, get a short nap, wake up in the dark, drive 40 minutes, show up at the hospital where the ER doors are...closed and locked. I snuck in on the second floor and got to the ER which was actually open. Wait three more hours to get a bed in a packed room. Four more hours of waiting before a trio of residents show up with their kit.

 

At this point, I felt THE MOST DESPERATE I have ever felt in my life. I wasn't scared, I was mentally broken. Every staff member who walked by my bed and didn't stop killed me a bit more inside. I couldn't sit, and every time I urinated the bladder spasms brought me to tears. I don't know if I've conveyed my agony in a way that y'all understand, but I'm sure I haven't done it justice. It was that bad, and I hated how selfishly I had come about needing help.

 

Anyway, I felt almost the diametric opposite when those doctors showed up. All were probably younger than me. They brought a grabbing claw contraption along with a scope. They made slow but steady progress with some small hiccups along the way. I received...compliments on my design and safety mechanisms; the retrieval line was the immediate callout because the folded stent was too big to grab onto. Folks, don't be afraid to add a backup retrieval line, as it might save your ass. The physical pain of removal was bad, but not the worst pain I've ever felt. Probably on par with being forced to walk on a broken foot for the duration of the procedure. Those brilliant bastards gave me a choice to wait for surgery and remove it that way or grip the handrail and yank it out by the retrieval line. If they were successful, I would be done and on my way home in an hour. If not, I might be stuck there all day, and by this point, I had been in the system for about 24 hours. I told them to apply elbow grease, and they did. They removed a folded over 24 FR catheter stent the hard way. I was beyond elated. This was a life-changing experience. Keep in mind that throughout this whole experience, I am wearing diapers (not even by choice).

 

I was sent home with a catheter (doctor's order) absolutely exhausted. I wish that this ordeal had rid me of these pesky incontinence desires, but I'm not so lucky. I guess the only lesson I've learned is that I can't depend on any internally dwelling retrieval line, so my designs will reflect that.

 

As a post script, I used a previous design that incorporated a stiffer, rubber retrieval line and THAT stent migrated, too. Fortunately, I had barely enough of the line to grab and carefully removed the stent, but not before a very sobering realization that I would have to go to the hospital AGAIN for a nearly identical issue without even a month passing.

 

And now, here I am, with a new stent in that has a foot long retrieval line connected to an O-ring that encircles the head of my penis. There is no way this design will irreversibly migrate, but it also doesn't have the "invisible" nature of the prevailing designs I see here. It's a shame that there will likely never be a truly safe design available, and we take very big risks trying to achieve what most would call a disability. I spend a lot of time wondering if this is worth it, and as long as I'm not in the middle of a danger scenario then I'll probably continue to pursue this relatively dangerous habit.

[cathdiap]

@dooglesSorry you had to go through this. Your decision on going forward with stents and diapers once again shows how strong this diaper demon inside us really is. Sometimes it really scares me how it is able to completely take me over, but then again the feeling is so rewarding

Anyway, thank you for sharing your story. It is a big warning to all stent users in general, but to me in particular, as I am about to start experimenting with stents without a retrieval line.

[Loveable_guy]

Well Doogles Your not the first and probably not going to be the last to loose your stent.  Glad your OK. I had the same happen to me. At the hospital I was knocked out and told they were going to try retrieving the lost pull line but were ready for surgery if necessary. I was lucky and avoided the surgery ending up with a sore urethra and a lot of bleeding. The embarrassment was level ten. I wore a hat over my head pulled down tight up to the last minute to hide my sorry face. After I came to in the recovery room without control I peed the bed. More embarrassment. They then told me I could not drive myself home. (I had no plans on bring the wife in on this mess.)  I said I'll walk. They said nope can't do that either. I made a break for the door and that's when things got ugly. I bolted across the fields of the hospital grounds and in to the surrounding woods.  Leaving my car in the ER parking garage. Next thing I know there are four police cars looking zooming in to the area. I think to myself "hey genus they know where you live", LOL. When I got to my home street I fully expected to see a police car waiting at my door. I guess in reality I did not commit any crimes and the police never contacted me. To this day, ten years later I have not told my wife. I went back to stent use about three months later. Like you said I use a double line made with ten pound test braided fishing line. This is connected to a rubber O ring that fits over my shaft. I keep the line just long enough to accommodate any night-time growth but no longer. 

@cathdiap, your a braver man that I going without a pull line

With Covid still in play I have limited my stent play. I'm not looking to go back to the ER at any cost. My after medical insurance cost was something like $2200.00 US.

[Old_PA]

Very sorry to hear about your experience dogles. I have had stents double over but always managed with the retrieval line. These days I am sticking to a "holey foley". By waving a hot flame over the cut I seem to achieve 100% comfort level. Early on, I found pull ups to be much more manageable than diapers, usually using Tena pants of varying thickness. Yesterday I experimented with the thickest of the Tena men's pads, level 3 (about 35grams, 1¼oz) and found it remarkable comfortable in the panties, (particularly in the hot weather here in Oz) going for 3hrs and 20min before leaking although I hadn't consumed much liquid. One is in place now and will be changed after two and a half hours.   

[InD]

On 1/14/2022 at 3:54 PM, doogles said:

I finally happened to me. I had to go to the hospital to get my stent removed.

 

Hey man, thank you so much for having the bravery and willingness to share this with us.  Showing people the risk of what can go wrong is often more important than sharing when something works.  We really should have a thread with accident reports for catheter, holey foley and stent play to make it easier to find and warn people of.

On the desire to have no visible indication of the retrieval line, I totally get that.  One thing that worked amazingly well for me was using a Prince Albert (PA) piercing and a piece of jewelry called a segment loop.  I put the retrieval line loop in the segment ring.  There is very little to see once done.  I know a PA isn't for everyone.  Pic below.

 

[doogles]

5 minutes ago, InD said:

Showing people the risk of what can go wrong is often more important than sharing when something works

I 100% agree. I wouldn't wish my experience on anyone, but it did clarify to me why I have incontinence desires: coping from assault trauma. I don't want to take up the oxygen in this thread about my sob story, but reverting to incontinence gives me the feeling that that whole area is off-limits and obviates and obligations of being sexual. Good or bad, this is what I get, and it feels like an improvement.

 

The issue is that we as humans are bad at internalizing risk and outcomes. If the risk of failure is known, and the consequences are known, then it's easier to handle (like a diaper leak). If the risk of failure is unknown, AND the consequences are unknown, we tend to act very stupidly (in retrospect). "Designing" our own stents here is in the latter category, and that scares me. Moreover, it undermines the goal I'm trying to achieve in that the reversion to incontinence becomes actually dangerous in a way that doesn't have well defined amelioration actions. Of course, medical mistakes kill an absurd number of people, so even doctors don't have all their systems locked down.

 

I think that people who post their designs responsibly do so with embedded explanations as to why certain design choices are made. Not just a single retrieval line but two. Curves of a specific angle because of such and such reason. These hint at the truth that we are all engaging in risks that NO ONE has competently tested. What biomedical engineer would spend time or risk their credibility solving this issue that is both vanishingly rare and non life-threatening. Of course, dick pills exist, so if there's money involved...

 

Bottom line, you might be right that we need a section talking about risks encountered by every approach. Besides, it'll get those pesky "Don't ever do anything risky to achieve happiness" people outta our hair.

[austmo]

It is possible to make stent that is solid and that could be used permanent without retrieval line  my stent is made with anchor beads in each end with a diameter of 13 mm. This of course means you will have to dilate your urethra using sounds to manage this size also troug your meatus. This took me a lot of effort, tears, blood and pain. Once done, it's possible to pass the titan stent in and out.

The stent sits stable due to the beads and don't have any chance of migrating into the bladder. See photoset for insertion.

[dlnoir]

This make me wonder how do you get it out if you want to take it out? For I suppose your stent will also allow minerals and such to build up meaning it will clog up eventually. How long can you keep it in for it looks a kind of heavy to have it rest in your urethra.

 

[austmo]

The stent is made of titanium and is very durable and lightweight.  It can be removed by inserting the rod into the draining hole, pulling it carefully out. This makes it more or less permanent, not easy removable. It could easily be used for years without getting calcified. I've removed it for cleaning frequently. 

[InD]

6 hours ago, austmo said:

The stent is made of titanium and is very durable and lightweight.  It can be removed by inserting the rod into the draining hole, pulling it carefully out. This makes it more or less permanent, not easy removable. It could easily be used for years without getting calcified. I've removed it for cleaning frequently. 

Thank you for posting new pics and details on this stent that has been near mythical for so many years.

If I may add something.  The guy who made this stent will NOT make another one.  Even for repeat customers who have spent thousands on his work.  He is an extremally skillful engineer and evil genius, but I'm guessing he either got sued, or close to it.  His designs and policies completely changed a few years ago.