torture

[Bettypooh]

Ah, you've found my real point The first question we must always ask ourself is how sure we are that the person in question is without any doubt guilty and thus deserving of such a loss of rights through their own choice. We're tiold mot to judge others but in this imperfect world that is something we must do sometimes, and that is where the focus should be- first making sure that you're right before doing anything, then understanding the implications, ramifications, depth, and scope of the possible consequenses of your own intended actions afterward. You never want to add fuel to a fire unless you have a solid reason to do it that will benefit you more than burn you These things take thinking and intelligence which are sadly lacking in too many people who are involved in these kind of matters. And the principle applies elsewhere too; stupidity contaminates everything it is allowed to be near to some degree In this particular instance there should be some very harsh punishment doled out to all those who erred, including those who tortured without need or who tortured someone who didn't deserve that but as is our usual nothing of the sort happened Instead we seek reasons to justify not giving them what they deserve because we think they meant well while we don't apply that same standard to their victims.

[tommee]

I had an argument with one of my IRL friends about this... It got pretty heated. Didn't expect to see this level of debate on DD.

[Darkfinn]

[Baby Brian]

So you'd rather not use torture, and lose, than use torture and win?

[Bettypooh]

They would however implement their version of 'Sharia law' as well as restrict personal freedoms- they have stated that already Thus they have made themselves my enemy as I do not believe in either of those concepts

[Dill_Pickle]

So you'd rather not use torture, and lose, than use torture and win?

[Bettypooh]

As long as one can win without reducing one's moral stance, then keeping the high moral ground is a good idea But you also have to keep in mind who your enemy is and whether they will care about that- which most fanatics and extremists do not

[spark]

The choice between choosing torture and winning, or not and losing is a classic logic flaw.

[Bettypooh]

Most of the American Plains Indian tribes held other tribes in a iow esteem and saw no wrong in doing anything they wanted to them. It was perfectly fine for a male to rape a female of another tribe But if they raped one of their own, the inescapable punishment was to be staked to an ant bed where you'd be in agony for days till you died- torture of the worst kind and revenge if there ever was that. It was effective; almost no in-tribe rapes ever happened.

[spark]

Respectfully disagree, and based on what I've seen it's rarely been the case.

[willnotwill]

I disagree.

[WBDaddy]

Fact:

[spark]

[Bettypooh]

Wasn't plagarism- read the next line and look at the emoticon- I was quoting you and agreeing

[spark]

Wasn't plagarism- read the next line and look at the emoticon- I was quoting you and agreeing

[Bettypooh]

Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Hitler- our history is littered with those who are not worthy of life and who we killed (or tried to kill) without qualm because they deserved it, giving no thought to any other option. Does that make us murderers? I think not, indeed many innocent lives were saved by their deaths. The responsibility to cause the end of people who willingly cause harm to innocent persons falls on us whether we want that resoponsibility or not. We would prefer to not reach that point but when all other options are exhausted one resorts to using whatever means works to end the evil. As the opponent has chosen to not exercise restraint or concern for humans in general, so they should also be seen and treated. If you punch me, do you not expect me to punch back? If I do that was I wrong? If it is not wrong then it is also not wrong to treat terrorists with an equal regard toward their own humanity as they chose to give us.

[WBDaddy]

Betty, I'd like to reiterate what I said above:

[spark]

Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Hitler- our history is littered with those who are not worthy of life and who we killed (or tried to kill) without qualm because they deserved it, giving no thought to any other option. Does that make us murderers? I think not, indeed many innocent lives were saved by their deaths. The responsibility to cause the end of people who willingly cause harm to innocent persons falls on us whether we want that resoponsibility or not. We would prefer to not reach that point but when all other options are exhausted one resorts to using whatever means works to end the evil. As the opponent has chosen to not exercise restraint or concern for humans in general, so they should also be seen and treated. If you punch me, do you not expect me to punch back? If I do that was I wrong? If it is not wrong then it is also not wrong to treat terrorists with an equal regard toward their own humanity as they chose to give us.