Be Careful!

[turtlepins]

Taking time to relax, recharge, and refresh is of ultimate importance! We live in a world where people are under pressure almost all the time. Even watching television can put you under pressure! You need this! Buy this! Get thin! Get beautiful! Eat here! Drive this car! I've realized that I don't fit into what the media defines as "normal." If I get stressed my body tells me in different ways that I need to relax, recharge, and refresh. There are many wonderful ways to do this. Go to the zoo. Go to a museum. Go to the beach, or to a state park, to the river, to the lake. This past Sunday we drove up to Santa Barbara. They have all these booths where they sell art and crafts along the beach there on Sunday. We park the car, walk around looking at the various arts and crafts, eat a picnic lunch in the park, look some more, visit a used book store where books are twenty-five cents, and enjoy a day of complete random activity. I needed the rest. We all need the stimulation and peace of a different setting. Don't get so stressed you have a meltdown!

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

How is it that something that most of thw world, and previous generations would consider Paradise is now "under pressure"? and "relaxation" is of ultimate importance? I really get sick of the whole "stressed out" , "self-esteem" and other psychobabble thing

What would you have done if you were me 45 years ago working 10 hours a day 7 days a week for very little money trying to keep a family business from going under? Or my grandfather's generation where 6 day weeks in mills were the norm? or my father's generation that lived through the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl then fought and won a war like no other? If all it takes is not living up to some media "image" to put you under the gun then such a generation is in dire need of a life and is to be pitied. Espcially since it is the same media that is peddling the psychobabble in the first place

The really sad thing is that these small things do, in fact, stress this generation out and make them feel incompetent. What will happen when something significant happens?

[PArms]

Amen, turlepins.

[timmyc]

wait, aren't Christine and Turtlepins the same generation?

[square_duck]

I have noticed that a lot of this comes in from all directions anymore. You also have to put things in the context of the time. My grandparents went through the depression and WW2 also, as did my parents, but things were different because they didn't have what we have today. Communications were basic in the 30's...most people read newspapers and magazines, and radio was just starting up. They had telephones, but limited calling areas etc. yes there was stress, but not like today with all the media we have access to and are exposed to. Th efuture isn't going to be any better really look at some of the images from things like "Bladerunner' YUCK! I know it's just a movie, but it seems that some of the stuff from films make it into real life.

Anyways, today, we have a recession, high unemployment, growing inflation, stagnant housing a government essentially out of control, global conflicts, instability in key areas, etc.....on top of all that, you have global and instant communications. Unlike the isolation bubble that many people lived in in the past, where news and information took a long time to receive (newspapers and magazines and primitive radio) today we have instant access to news and information. everyone knew about the earthquake in japan almost before it was over and the resulting tsunami etc. I have friends who know people in japan and they get messages occasionally via email or what ever is available, and they worry about them and their families with small children etc.

this constant bombardment of information and input from phones, PDA's computers, TV news media, etc can be over whelming, and how some people deal with it I have no clue. people carry "smart phones' (IE mini computers) with them 24/7 they can video chat, keep up on news, make phone calls surf the web etc at a moments notice. everything needs to be going 200 MPH anymore, with out a break

Stress stress stress! The sad part of all this though is most of the incoming "information" is junk. All the BS advertising and political mudslinging and posturing and psudo corruption

BLAH BLAH BLAH...

J*U*N*K!

Who needs it?? I turned off the TV years ago, and only get what info I need off the internet...no (or limited) advertising and I can skip all the political hype and general horse sh*T and get info that I'm interested in and make up my own mind about any issues that 'might' matter.

Taking a break isn't a bad idea. leave the Iphone or blackberry or what ever at home (take a basic cell phone if you feel you 'might' want to make a call ) leave all the BS and crap and unnecessary garbage behind and go somewhere thats quiet. Listen to the birds and the breeze blow in the trees, or watch the surf crash on the beach etc.

Most of the crap we are exposed to is rather unhealthy and of no real 'true' value, yet it causes internal upset, concern, frustration, etc and most of it should be ignored and shut out (especially advertising)

Life is to short to have to deal with th dad to day pettiness and other peoples anxiety, or WTF is happening in some remote bas-ackwards country who's ruler cant pull his head out of his a$$ (can we say N.Korea?) etc.

Who cares about what the most current "status symbol" is and who has what or what 'celebrity' is doing or who

We have enough in our daily lives to keep us busy with out all the other crap of other peoples lives gushing in at horrendous volumes to distract us and cause further stress.

TP is correct, take a break....go find a peaceful place that makes YOU happy. Enjoy the quiet, and try to get back to your center and re-energize.

I have been to Santa Barbara many times and I know of the place you mentioned with the artwork. I was there on a cruise a couple of years ago, and it was very nice

I'm glad you had a chance to get away and clear your head, experience some peace, spend time with your wife and let go of the BS of 'modern' life. I hope it helped and you feel better, and more centered again.

Speaking of all this reminds me that I need to get away for a bit. I don't think I have had a decent trip or vacation in over 2 years, and being 'stuck' here is really bugging me. I desperately want to get up to the local mountains and hang out there for a while. I want to start shopping for a cabin up there so I have a quiet place to go, in a place that I enjoy

But in the meantime, I might plan a trip up to Monterey again. Take a week or so off, visit Stanley, go do some fun stuff etc. Just get away...I need it UGH!

[sarah_ab]

course 'back in the day' people lived much shorter lives too

[Diapered Jason]

How is it that something that most of thw world, and previous generations would consider Paradise is now "under pressure"? and "relaxation" is of ultimate importance? I really get sick of the whole "stressed out" , "self-esteem" and other psychobabble thing

What would you have done if you were me 45 years ago working 10 hours a day 7 days a week for very little money trying to keep a family business from going under? Or my grandfather's generation where 6 day weeks in mills were the norm? or my father's generation that lived through the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl then fought and won a war like no other? If all it takes is not living up to some media "image" to put you under the gun then such a generation is in dire need of a life and is to be pitied. Espcially since it is the same media that is peddling the psychobabble in the first place

The really sad thing is that these small things do, in fact, stress this generation out and make them feel incompetent. What will happen when something significant happens?

lol, be careful.

Things are pretty bad right now as the division between the rich and the poor is higher than it has ever been, but that is a different topic and I will certainly not knock anyone's generation for this or any of our current problems. I think this high alert status many people are in is justified. That said, it is important not to take this home with you and to be optimistic, rather than pessimistic.

Now, talking about my generation. We have gown up connected. TV, computers, internet, video games, etc. have always been there for my generation. I can't speak for everyone in my generation, but I don't care alot about what I see on TV, as most of it is useless garbage. I really hate when they try to cater this garbage to my generation creating such high expectations for shows like Glee, but I wonder when they will figure out why these shows have such a high turn around rate (i.e. they never last that long, but they keep producing the same thing again and again).

[aleyxsis]

The present is scary and the future is even more scarier .I can only take so much info and bad news ! don't even own a cell phone, because i do not want to be that connected to everyone or everthing

[babymaggie]

This generation is experiencing their version of the great depression. The division between poor and rich is getting greater. Stress is a very real part of any generation, older or younger. I agree take time for yourself sometimes and destress take a deep breath and realize that no matter how stressed you are you can take time to take a deep breath and relax.

[wetman]

How is it

...

significant happens?

w.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

This generation is experiencing their version of the great depression. The division between poor and rich is getting greater. Stress is a very real part of any generation, older or younger. I agree take time for yourself sometimes and destress take a deep breath and realize that no matter how stressed you are you can take time to take a deep breath and relax.

If you think that this is anything like the Great Depression then you need an education. These folks did not have the time to take time for themselves. That is a luxury of the past 2-1/2 generations.

What has happened in the last 3 years is mild even in our lifetimes. Surely you remember the 1979-81 timeframe: 9.5+ unemployment, average inflation rate at 15% and interest at 18-20%. In 1979, I paid a discount rate of $1.28/gallon for heating oil; up from 14 cents in 1971l, in 1985 it was 85 cents. The Depression unemployment rate ranged from 15-25% and lasted for a decade. Much of our modern economic problems center around debt; and not just the government, either, that is a symptom more than the a cause. for the last 15 years it has been "laissez les bon temps roulez" with the credit card and using the house as an ATM with second and third mortgages so that you can have the 52" plasma "home theatre", 2 or 3 new cars, the cell phone and other toys. Sooner or later you get the "account overdrawn" notice with the accompanying mp3: "Oh what will we do with the drunken sailor what will we do with the drunken sailor what will we do with the drunken sailor earl-eye in the morning". But that was self-inflicted and eminently predictable; therfore avoidable. If you doubt that. look at the growth of crdit card debt over the past 15 years or just listen to the sorry stories that the debt-ridden tell to Dave Ramsey

It just shows how person can live in a veritable Paradise (if you doubt that then when is the boat fuller, coming here or leaving here? I do not see India, China, Russia, Brazil or Mexico complaining about illegal immigration from the US: People want what you have. What do they know that you do not that makes them risk life and limb to come here?) and make themselves miserable by thinking of the Monsters in the Dark. I can say from experience and knowledge that you do not know what you are talking about.

Demographically there is a larger gap between rich and poor by virtue of the fact that look who is having more children

The whole stress mania is a creation of the intellectual establishmentmedia complex over the last 20 years to create discontent so that they can benefit. No people anywhere or anywhen have had it easier. That is not to say that there are not bumps in the road, to get a grip on what those bumps are. look at ALL expenses over the last 65 years and see which have gone up the most. But then, those who generated those increases were put in powere not by armed revolution but by public assent. Even given that, my statement of relative and absolute ease still stands

My point is this; most of the modern "stress" is not only self-inflicted but would be a cause for derision from those over 50 under the aegis of "you have had it too easy and did this to yourself"

[Diapered Jason]

Demographically there is a larger gap between rich and poor by virtue of the fact that look who is having more children

Bull fucking shit!

This I am certain is the result of greed as wages of the common worker have been stagnant for years, while business executives have seen huge spikes in their salaries. Once you factor in inflation, you will find that the common worker cannot keep up with the price of living. Following the Great Depression, we were doing great until Reagan put forth his trickle-down economic policy combined with deregulation. When we do not regulate the size of banks, look at what happens. You get corporations such as AIG that insure half of the world's banks. Therefore, we get too big too fail. Most people do not realize if we had not bailed out the banks and AIG, there would have been no food on the table, just like the Great Depression. When banks take a risk such as subprime mortgage lending and lose, you can let them fail or bail them out. Keep in mind if you let the banks fail, confidence in the bank's stocks disappears and we see a huge sell as they are now huge corporations. The problems that lead up to this recession differ from the Great Depression due to the size of these banks.

That said, George W. Bush may have inadvertently caused this recession as he wanted everyone in America to own a home, which may have caused the banks to lend to people who they would not have normally lent to (Subprime mortgages).

So, I can agree with you Christine that stupid people took loans they could not afford to repay, but they were probably goaded into taking those loans by the bank, who was pressured by the government to lend more home loans.

[square_duck]

Actually, in thinking on this I remembered something that many are (unfortunately) forgetting already...Remember September 11??

that single event damn near brought the country to it's knees. Almost everything shut down EVERYTHING! I remember vividly how quiet it was, since I lived near an airport...no jets or aircraft of ANY kind. that lasted for about 3 days, and then president Bush held what was essentially a national American Rally..."Keep on keeping on" don't let terror win the day. Flags flew and people partied an d tried to mask the underlying fear of the unknown....and the utter sadness of the loss and damage done. The feeling of being voilated was rampant, but we had to keep going. He didn't want everyone to run and hide....but keep living thier lives, keep shopping, keep working keep moving forward.

Thats when things changed, policies were changed to allow for more people to own homes (Keep the buying going) regardless if they qualified or not, and it seemed to snow ball from there...and eventually caught up with us 5-6 years later when the economy finally collapsed with the beginning of interest rate increases on loans that people shouldn't have had. Didn't anyone notice the HUGE numbers of Motor homes parked on the streets?? or the boats and more toys and such??

Keep on shopping....keep on spending...Buy buy buy and support the AMERICAN economy etc...

then it came unraveled because no one would stop and think...yes there were whistle blowers in Washington, but no one would listen...the snow ball was about to hit a mountain.....and we have what we have today, an almost totally melted and destroyed economy....the terrorists won...we did it to our selves in trying to combat terrorism, and show them the finger. That they couldn't destroy the American spirit or cash machine....but they essentially did....it's called "PSYCHOLOGICAL WAR FARE" The made us drive the Bus off the cliff. with fear and manipulation...and made it look like we did it.....but we did anyways.

So one can't really fault the banks or government, they were doing what ever it took (at the time) to keep the Country going,

unfortunately, someone forgot to connect the brakes on the Bus and it just kept on going....taking us all along with it.

I guess it was a fun ride while it was going, but now all those fancy expensive motor homes and luxury coaches are parked on the side of the road...and they are what people now call "HOME" since the real estate they bought it with is long gone etc..

I'm not as old as some here, but I too remember the 70's with the insane inflation and high interest rates, I was getting 13% on my savings account! man I wish I had stuffed $100,000 into a 30 year T-bill or other account back then....13% on $100,000 for 30 years..YEe haw! Compounded monthly....I could buy my own little island!

Anyways....thats my take on things, it started off with the right intention, and got way way way out of hand.....but as far as I can tell, from my perspective, it started after the September 11, 2001 Bombings...and went down hill from there.

*Shrug*

[sarah_ab]

wanna know the messed up thing? As the economy gets worse, my financial situation gets better! in the spend spend spend days i was super poor, now that is the save save save no jobs etc... days... i actually CAN spend spend spend... weird

[square_duck]

wanna know the messed up thing? As the economy gets worse, my financial situation gets better! in the spend spend spend days i was super poor, now that is the save save save no jobs etc... days... i actually CAN spend spend spend... weird

Well, you managed to get out of school at just the right time.! make the best of the situation, squirrel money away and look for great deals on cool stuff. Also,if you can swing it, try and take advantage of the week real estate market...buy vacant lots in good locations for tax purposes and appreciation. Also try and get a good deal on a nice house, or do house flipping if you can in your area. The market is weak, yes, but there are a lot of people out there with a L*O*T of money willing to buy if the opportunity comes along.

Thats how people make $$$$ and add security to their futures

rates are low...money is essentially cheap...take advantage of it, and it will be of great assistance to you in the future.

[rusty pins]

Square Duck makes what I feel are some very valid points about technology today and how people use it. Sure, cell phones and GPS are convienient tools but now days people depend too much on them somtimes. I sound like an old fart now, but when I was younger and people didn't have cell phones, VCR's, GPS, DVD's and all that, we went shopping at the store and made a list before we left home. We didn't have to call the wife to see if we forgot anything, or which size box of Uncle Ben's rice to get. If we forgot something, we put it on the list for the next trip. Now it is true that in case of an emergency a cell phone is great to have, however people now use them all the time when out doing tasks. They have to take a call from anyone just wanting to chat, even in a restaraunt, store and yes, even in church. When I was younger, you waited until you got home to make your calls. We didn't even have an answering machine or caller ID! If someone missed you whiel you were out, they would just call back later. Whatever happened to making your plans before leaving the house and that's that? Unless an emergency crops up, you have made the plans, no need to call all the time and touch base about them. Don't even get me started on text messaging!

Then you have the constant media entertainment that people always seem to need. You can get TV, news, games, just about everything on your wireless I-Phone or I-Pad now days. People can't even ride the bus downtown to do their errands without constant entertainment, having to sit and watch the news or play a game on their I-Pad. Then there are the SUV's and minivans with the built in DVD players in the rear of the seats for the kids to watch. Maybe they need artificial stimulation to keep occupied, but when I was younger, we looked out the window on our vacation car trips! Even last month when I took a 14 hour car trip out to the east coast with a friend, we didn't even play the radio!

What's the point of all of this? Relaxation! I find that it's a great way to let the mind just wind down if you do nothing but relax and look out the window or run some errands like grocery shopping without the distraction of having a cell phone go off all the time. Even on the interstate going through Ohio and Pennsylvania, it was so relaxing just to look at the hills, green grass, billboards (even saw an old barn with MAIL POUCH TOBACCO on it) and cars passing by. Sometimes I'd see very interesting homes or churches, things I don't see around my own home town. I learned as a kid that it's hard to beat looking out the car window either on a trip or just around town for relaxing! Perhaps if people left the I-PAD home and didn't answer every call that comes along on their cell phone, they would relax more and relieve some stress. Besides, what are people going to do if their GPS goes out and they have never learned how to read a roadmap?

Last thing I have to say is about the housing market and forclosure rates, as some have commented about. Sure, we didn't expect a recession and unemployment (even though I believe that the super high gas prices are responsible for a lot of the unemployment and the recession), but why would a new college graduate, 23 years old and just getting started need to take out a huge loan to go buy a $600,000 home? Come on! Start smaller, work for a few years, when you start having kids and need a bigger place, gradually move up as you need to. Bank some money for the future, no matter how well you think things are going with your job. So what if your friend, cousin, relative or coworker has a much bigger house with every brand new appliance, fancy artwork, 60 inch HD television and a couple of Cadillacs parked in the 3 car garage? Chances are, if they are making the monthly payments they are just paying off the interest and very little against the principle for the next 40 years! I'd rather not be in huge debt and bank some money instead!

These are my opinions, people may not agree with them and they may sound old fashioned, but they have always worked for my parents and me! I've never had a house forclosed on me, nor have my parents. We have never had a car reposessed, filed for bankrupcy, had any loans so large we couldn't make the monthly payments and all have excellent credit ratings (mine is 790 by the way).

[Bettypooh]

The current concept of "growth economics" is flawed and can only lead to failure- there is no other possible outcome The earth can produce only a certain amount of wealth, a finite amount which must be shared among the ever-growing population. When you reach the point where population overtakes that amount economic growth ends so to base an economy on growth is asinine When money had real value based on a relatively stable commodity, inflation and deflation were tiny and almost unheard of, and prices were based on the real value of the item being considered You couldn't manipulate the value of anything, you could only manipulate it's availability which is what happened in the 1890's in America. People were misled into believing that this manipulation was proper and began to put their own savings into the idea. When the stock market crashed people found out that market manipulation was wrong. The elephant in the room nobody speaks of is this: Since money was valued in gold which is immutable, the loss of wealth was just a transfer of gold from those who lost to someone somewhere who gained; so where did the gold go? In releasing the valuation of money from gold, what happened was that another form of manipulation began which has brought us to where we are today The great government-backed Ponzi scheme of modern economics is unraveling once again- except this time there can be no recovery We are destined to return to the point where the only value will be in tangible items with usefulness or desirability which is where wealth really resides. Services will be relegated to their real value of almost nothing and produced items will regain their stature of real value versus the commodity they are now seen as. Trading will be so competitive that little value will be found there, and only those who work and produce a sellable and needed product will have much wealth- and that is how it should be Sadly, before that reality makes itself happen there will be pain and misery in great quantity for all Ironically, the poor will suffer the least though their hardship will be the greatest, because if you have learned to live with nothing you cannot lose what you never had. Just as in the "Great Depression" those whose wealth was not realistic will suffer the most because they lack the skills and knowledge that life truly requires: How to make do for yourself by yourself without much money to do it with.

Disagree all you wish, but time will prove me right There is wealth only in that which is truly valuable in life; all the rest may be fun but it is worthless in the end.

Bettypooh

[Guitarzan]

How is it that something that most of thw world, and previous generations would consider Paradise is now "under pressure"? and "relaxation" is of ultimate importance? I really get sick of the whole "stressed out" , "self-esteem" and other psychobabble thing

What would you have done if you were me 45 years ago working 10 hours a day 7 days a week for very little money trying to keep a family business from going under? Or my grandfather's generation where 6 day weeks in mills were the norm? or my father's generation that lived through the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl then fought and won a war like no other? If all it takes is not living up to some media "image" to put you under the gun then such a generation is in dire need of a life and is to be pitied. Espcially since it is the same media that is peddling the psychobabble in the first place

The really sad thing is that these small things do, in fact, stress this generation out and make them feel incompetent. What will happen when something significant happens?

And you walked 5 miles to school every day up hill, both ways... right.

The stressors are different, but they are very real. It seems a little arrogant to call what some people find as stress "small things".

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Most of the things you describe are good in the right hands. It is not, as Arnold Toynbee said "Things are in the saddle and riding mankind", it is that mankind is letting itself be ridden. There has been a decline in the individual over the last 3 generations. Boomers were the first "television generation" beginning in 1955, then came the transistor radio in 1958. Thus began the media barrage. Even so I could go for most of the day without some media input when I was 14, 15, 20, 25... I was outside or interacting with real live persons. Given the nuisance that the phonatics make of themselves in buses, markets and other places of commerce and traffic, I would not protest a ban on non-commercial use of cell phones. At one time, CB radio was restricted to those who had other reasons than idle chatter. when you have otherwise sane perosns saying "I do not know how I lived before I got the cell phone" then you know something is wrong. In 1962, my uncle and I went from Tiverton RI to upstate NY and he didt it wiht errorless precision. He knew how to navigate by learning how to use landmarks so He did not need a GPS. When I am with someone who is driving in strange territorry and they are in contact with the persons at the destination getting instructions I always say "Ask for landmarks" and when asked, "How do you get to..." I give landmarks at the places you should turn or what set of lights you should go through. What do you do if the relevent street sign is down? You can bet that the green three-family house at the corner is not going anywhere soon.

As far as being run by the media. the clicker has an "off" button. Maybe people should learn its use. Then again, maybe they do not want to. The biggiest argument against diet as the key factor in childhood obesity is the fact that we had the same foods and tastes 30 and 40 years ago so that has not changed, in fact they were cheaper both in actual price and relative price, over the last 50 years, prices have gone up about 6 fold, candy has gone up 20. Potato chips have gone up 10. The Hostess or Drake's pastries that now cost over $1.00 today cost 10 cents in 1960. What we did not have was the video game or Internet. We actually went outside. Most of my memories are of being outside and we always found something to do with ourselves and our friends. We were not shoved into organized activities near as much as kids are now: No wonder they are unable to think and act for themselves, Usually it was Little League or Piano Lessons, then came Boy/Girl Scouts and that was pretty much it for most of us

Too much of anything becomes oppressive, anti-developmental and counter-productive

[Guitarzan]

The current concept of "growth economics" is flawed and can only lead to failure- there is no other possible outcome The earth can produce only a certain amount of wealth, a finite amount which must be shared among the ever-growing population. When you reach the point where population overtakes that amount economic growth ends so to base an economy on growth is asinine When money had real value based on a relatively stable commodity, inflation and deflation were tiny and almost unheard of, and prices were based on the real value of the item being considered You couldn't manipulate the value of anything, you could only manipulate it's availability which is what happened in the 1890's in America. People were misled into believing that this manipulation was proper and began to put their own savings into the idea. When the stock market crashed people found out that market manipulation was wrong. The elephant in the room nobody speaks of is this: Since money was valued in gold which is immutable, the loss of wealth was just a transfer of gold from those who lost to someone somewhere who gained; so where did the gold go? In releasing the valuation of money from gold, what happened was that another form of manipulation began which has brought us to where we are today The great government-backed Ponzi scheme of modern economics is unraveling once again- except this time there can be no recovery We are destined to return to the point where the only value will be in tangible items with usefulness or desirability which is where wealth really resides. Services will be relegated to their real value of almost nothing and produced items will regain their stature of real value versus the commodity they are now seen as. Trading will be so competitive that little value will be found there, and only those who work and produce a sellable and needed product will have much wealth- and that is how it should be Sadly, before that reality makes itself happen there will be pain and misery in great quantity for all Ironically, the poor will suffer the least though their hardship will be the greatest, because if you have learned to live with nothing you cannot lose what you never had. Just as in the "Great Depression" those whose wealth was not realistic will suffer the most because they lack the skills and knowledge that life truly requires: How to make do for yourself by yourself without much money to do it with.

Disagree all you wish, but time will prove me right There is wealth only in that which is truly valuable in life; all the rest may be fun but it is worthless in the end.

Bettypooh

I think you hit the nail on the head!!!! It scares me that so much production of sellable and needed products has left this country.

[Crinklebritches]

The current concept of "growth economics" is flawed and can only lead to failure- there is no other possible outcome The earth can produce only a certain amount of wealth, a finite amount which must be shared among the ever-growing population. When you reach the point where population overtakes that amount economic growth ends so to base an economy on growth is asinine When money had real value based on a relatively stable commodity, inflation and deflation were tiny and almost unheard of, and prices were based on the real value of the item being considered You couldn't manipulate the value of anything, you could only manipulate it's availability which is what happened in the 1890's in America. People were misled into believing that this manipulation was proper and began to put their own savings into the idea. When the stock market crashed people found out that market manipulation was wrong. The elephant in the room nobody speaks of is this: Since money was valued in gold which is immutable, the loss of wealth was just a transfer of gold from those who lost to someone somewhere who gained; so where did the gold go? In releasing the valuation of money from gold, what happened was that another form of manipulation began which has brought us to where we are today The great government-backed Ponzi scheme of modern economics is unraveling once again- except this time there can be no recovery We are destined to return to the point where the only value will be in tangible items with usefulness or desirability which is where wealth really resides. Services will be relegated to their real value of almost nothing and produced items will regain their stature of real value versus the commodity they are now seen as. Trading will be so competitive that little value will be found there, and only those who work and produce a sellable and needed product will have much wealth- and that is how it should be Sadly, before that reality makes itself happen there will be pain and misery in great quantity for all Ironically, the poor will suffer the least though their hardship will be the greatest, because if you have learned to live with nothing you cannot lose what you never had. Just as in the "Great Depression" those whose wealth was not realistic will suffer the most because they lack the skills and knowledge that life truly requires: How to make do for yourself by yourself without much money to do it with.

Disagree all you wish, but time will prove me right There is wealth only in that which is truly valuable in life; all the rest may be fun but it is worthless in the end.

Bettypooh

I say, let's go back to the barter system where you had to help out your neighbor to get the things you need. We would all probably be a little friendlier to each other since we would have to get to know one another. I would probably be poor though, how do you barter computer programming for diapers!

[Diapered Jason]

And you walked 5 miles to school every day up hill, both ways... right.

And you walked 5 miles to school every day in 5 feet of snow, with no shoes on, uphill, both ways!

lol, that is Bill Cosby.

I disagree with some of you significantly. The only kind of manipulation being done is the size of these corporations that are in charge of your money, your assets, and your capital. There is no government ponzi scheme and there will definitely be recovery, unless you have been listening to Stockman. Our currency, though stagnant as it is, is not what caused this recession. Another thing, the derivative of our population is decreasing, meaning the amount our population increases each year is decreasing. I do not think resource allocation is an issue in that sense yet, but you are right that there is a finite amount of wealth though one small group of people have it all. This recession is not affecting the rich, but actually only made them richer as is evident by how fast the stock market bounced back due to the government's injection of capital restoring confidence back in the banks. For them, it was as if nothing happened. You cannot blame the terrorists for this either, but they certainly did not help.

If you truly believe what you said Bettypooh, go buy your gold as a hedge fund and wait for the decline of the United States.

[turtlepins]

I love all you guys and gals here in DD! Hope all of you get the time to just enjoy life, smell the roses, etc. Blessings. Luv and hugs.

[WBDaddy]

Christine, your arrogance is nothing short of appalling. 45 years ago, when you were working 27 hours a day 14 days a week or whatever, was a hell of a lot different world.

Your senses weren't assaulted from every direction with a constant barrage of information, most of it useless. Yes, the miracles of technology have made the physical aspects of our lives easier, but the miracles of technology have also invaded our brains to a point where we no longer have respite unless we (surprise) take time out and go find some wilderness to explore.

Oh - and the fact that you launched that sermon against someone who is a mere 6 years your junior? Nothing short of hysterical.

Your curmudgeon act sucks. Go back home and work on it some more. Maybe take in some Frank Black videos or something to give you some ideas.

[WBDaddy]

And you walked 5 miles to school every day in 5 feet of snow, with no shoes on, uphill, both ways!

lol, that is Bill Cosby.

I disagree with some of you significantly. The only kind of manipulation being done is the size of these corporations that are in charge of your money, your assets, and your capital. There is no government ponzi scheme and there will definitely be recovery, unless you have been listening to Stockman. Our currency, though stagnant as it is, is not what caused this recession. Another thing, the derivative of our population is decreasing, meaning the amount our population increases each year is decreasing. I do not think resource allocation is an issue in that sense yet, but you are right that there is a finite amount of wealth though one small group of people have it all. This recession is not affecting the rich, but actually only made them richer as is evident by how fast the stock market bounced back due to the government's injection of capital restoring confidence back in the banks. For them, it was as if nothing happened. You cannot blame the terrorists for this either, but they certainly did not help.

If you truly believe what you said Bettypooh, go buy your gold as a hedge fund and wait for the decline of the United States.

I'm not necessarily plugging in to the doomsayers' clique just yet, but the fact is, this collapse has been brewing for 40 years. The PC revolution, the rise in consumer credit, and irresponsible fiscal policy starting with Reagan are what staved off the inevitable and created growth.

Note that only one of those things was tangible production. The other two are smoke and mirrors - spending future money now in order to support an economic house of cards.

Fact is, China doesn't dare call in their markers on US public debt because they know we'd default, and if we defaulted, their economy would be destroyed as fast as ours, since we're their biggest customer.

That said, just as the pound sterling was replaced by the dollar due to Britain's fiscal irresponsibility, so the dollar can be replaced by another strong currency, and the rupee looks to be the leading candidate at this juncture. If that happens, in the short term it will be total chaos in this country as imported goods (upon which we rely heavily) will become insanely expensive as the dollar collapses. However, in the long term, it will bring manufacturing back home simply because the "cheap foreign labor" won't be anywhere near as cheap anymore.