Are You An Atheist?

[Guest lilme]

I believe in a higher power. Some call it God, Budda, etc... it's all the same energy. I don't believe in organized religion, it doesn't seem to ever lead to a good place over time and generally doesn't allow for an expansion of ideas and thoughts.

So I suppose you could say I'm spiritual, but not religious. If you want to read some really cool stuff, check out the Treatise Works... if you do, keep in mind it was written in late 1800's and published in the 20's and it'll blow your mind even more Some seriously heavy and radical stuff there.

Is there something after this life? Is there another life? Is there some kind of plan behind it all? Are we just here to experience? To learn something? Is life just random? I have no clue and maybe I'll never know *shrugs*

All I do know is, I'm alive, I live a moral decent life, I treat those around me how I'd like to be treated. I feel love and respect for those around me in my life.

That's real enough.

~lilme

[Guest Baby-Toa]

Most of what has been said is true.

i'm not anything but a Pagan. I don't mind that others believe it differently as long as you don't push it unto me i do not mind. Some here know what a Pagan is some do not.

[Necare]

It would be unforgivingly arrogant and much, much too assuming of me to say that we either get to be a meal for worms and nothing more, or that our souls shall experience heavenly bliss or hellish damnation, that existence is circular, that death is an illusion, a mere passageway etc. I believe in possibilities, in the unsteady, unpredictable ground beneath my feet, in the no-answer. People need crutches, be it the belief in materialism or spirits, either way one has thereby made a choice of excluding the myriad of possibilities out there. Either way, it brings a sense of safety, comfort and direction that man, poor man, seems to need so much. What better way to create meaning than to adhere to a system! And the funny thing is that people treat their belief-systems as fact, christians cannot afford in the long run( of course there occurs the momentary chrisis of faith) to question the plateau they are standing on, where do the sheep turn to if it crumbles? To question is to fall. Ergo, they don`t even consider the possibility that their deity may be non-existent. How sad. Man, the eternal idolizer!

[Bettypooh]

....I will always share my faith when asked, however I do not believe in beating someone over the head with it....

But I do because I'm a Druid and I slay maidens by beating them to death Looking at the spattered blood will tell you the future (JK ) Seroiusly this is exactly where established religions go wrong If you have to push your religion to get others to join then you're on the wrong track. If your religion is as good as you think it is then it will show in you and others will want to know why you're always so happy. If your religion is the only true and right one, how come it hasn't beaten all the others yet? If your religion doesn't push you to ask questions about it then maybe there's a reason for their reluctance

.... And the funny thing is that people treat their belief-systems as fact, christians cannot afford in the long run( of course there occurs the momentary crisis of faith) to question the plateau they are standing on, where do the sheep turn to if it crumbles? To question is to fall....

Then I have fallen, for I have questioned and found that the true and obvious answers weren't what I wanted yet they were true. I've studied many religions with an open mind in hope that at least one would not contradict itself or be based on the idea that you cannot question what they tell you it is supposed to be- you can only accept or reject it Learning a religion requires learning a doctrine- in other words you get indoctrinated- and when you let that happen you become blind to things which are obviously wrong about their ideology.

The bottom line is that no amount of believing or disbelieving changes the truth and the more you become indoctrinated the less you are able to see the truth because you've placed a higher value on accepting their ideas than on seeking and seeing for yourself. I believe in God though I see that he isn't anything like what established religions would want you to think he is like There is no comfort in knowing the truth when the truth isn't nice- that is why I said you really don't want to go here with me. Just say "Screw it, I'm going to be a (fill in the blank) whether anyone likes it or not " and enjoy the bliss as best you can.

Bettypooh

[diaperpt]

Most of what has been said is true.

Well, there have been a lot of opinions expressed - and many are conflicting - so in some sense, a lot of what has been said can not be true. On the other hand, I have enjoyed being able to read the thread and not feel attacked by one opinion or another. It has actually been a very civil discussion of various beliefs.

Bettypooh, I do think a lot of religions and denominations require some indoctrination and lock-step thinking, but that isn't necessarily true of all. Many at least act like they have a corner on 'TRUTH' and Christians often point to the Bible as the inerrant word of God. Those same people then tell you how you should live based on that inerrant writing. Of course, they won't talk about the contradictory passages. They'll quote passages of Leviticus, but won't mention about stoning unruly children or women needing to go out of town for their periods, etc. Many of these people have come to believe that somehow they (as fallible humans) - or others (just as fallible) in their church - are able to tell you just which passages are to be taking as fact, where other passages (the ones they don't want to deal with) are not to be taken literally, and still other passages are just superceded in some way. Even from the New Testament, shouldn't people who have divorced be stoned to death? On a less violent note, shouldn't all women have to cover their heads - let alone be 'obedient' to their husbands? And, oh yes, slaves, be obedient to your masters. If the Bible is truly inerrant word of God, which humans get to tell you which passages to interpret how?

This is why I DON'T feel I have a corner on the TRUTH. It's why I read and re-read the Bible, continue to preach about it (expressing frequently and firmly that I'm preaching my thoughts) and invite other opinions. I feel the purpose of religion is to keep our faith growing. If you've got a lock on the TRUTH, why bother trying to grow your faith?

Again, for those who do not believe, sorry for a rather long response - and a second one. I do feel a continuing need to point out to people that not ALL Christians are locked-step, rigid believers...I believe there is a TRUTH, but it's our goal to have a good relationship with God and with others around us. If what I believe comes to pass, we may get to know the TRUTH in the next life. If what I believe doesn't come to pass, I still think I'll have lived a better, more meaningful life...whether I become a sack of embalming fluid or a bunch of ashes.

And finally, I continue to be impressed by our ability to make our own statements - and to an extent respond to others in a civil fashion!

[amp501]

I'm agnostic, and was baptized catholic involuntarily. I was maybe 1 at the time.

I don't practice religion and have never had an affinity to one or another. However, I try to live a morally good man. I'm probably going to hell, and driving the bus there, but I'll get over it.

[freswith]

I lost my faith at about 13 years old. When it came to the crunch I realised that I simply didn't believe all that stuff. Unfortunately I went to a "good" school which was run by a were-vicar* who took a very dim view of such things. Anyone who professed atheism was a marked man, and got the thick end of the stick - on some occasions literally. All it did was to make me an atheist with a contempt for authority. I have seen the back of the Christian hand as well as the front, and believe me, they do some nasty smug things. That said, I've met a few Christians who try very hard to live up to the ideals, but just keep quiet about it.

The most stupid thing I have ever been told is "Without religion you cannot have a moral code". That infuriated me. I read quite deply into Greek philosophy, and began to form my own from first principles. The big snag is that when you have done that, there is no excuse but to follow it. There is no God to forgive you, so you have to live with it.

For a time I toyed with Odinism, a very rigid and quite harsh regime that forms the underpainting of the protestant character. I never really believed any of the metaphysics, but it was a good read and a wonderful way to deal with missionaries at the door. I just give them a "Hail Odin" and tell them I don't follow any "Eastern slave religion". If they don't depart promptly I can go on to Himmler's charming "Jewish Christ-creed with it's effeminate pity ethic" line. No, they don't get a taker with me. However, I do give to the lady who collects for the Salvation Army because I respect their work and commitment.

Thank God I'm an atheist!

*Were-vicar: Clergyman who wears normal clothes and appears quit human until midnight on Saturday when - Hooowllllelulia! - he turns into a priest and will tear your sins off you in a moment!

[XyXy]

Am I an "Atheist"?

Why I wonder, do some feel that I should adopt a label for not holding a particular belief? Am I also to be called an A-zeusist, an A-paganist, an A-satanist? Nobody feels we need carry those labels around, so why put the label atheist on me for not believing in the current fashionable religions? And what about you so called religious folk, aren't you "atheists" to a degree? For example, the Southern Baptist who posted earlier, he obviously did not believe in Paganism, Islam, Buddhism and the others, so wouldn't that make him the same as me regarding the majority of religions? Yet, because of his opposition to other religions, he does not feel it is necessary to define himself as such. In the same way, I do not feel compelled to carry the label atheist just because the religions around me have not stood up to simple tests of reason and logic.

I believe in what I can sense and grasp with my senses and mind. Beyond that is speculation, and more usually just imagination. It is just as likely for example that I am God, who was bored and created all of this to forget my loneliness and forget my condition as it is that some omniscient authority figure created me to be his slave. However, having proof of neither, I am left with the only logical answer, "I don't know." Some would call this agnosticism I guess. Yet, I am quite certain of my uncertainty, and if one wished to go down this line, I would suggest that I am a hard-core agnostic. I'd say with certainty, "I don't know, and neither do you." For those who think I am wrong, i.e. that you do know, ask yourself this, is it really knowledge you possess, or belief? If it was knowledge, then why do so many people disagree with you?

[redneck diaper boy]

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,

the Maker of heaven and earth,

and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,

born of the virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,

and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;

from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;

the holy catholic church;

the communion of saints;

the forgiveness of sins;

the resurrection of the body;

and the life everlasting.

Any more questions?

[sarah_ab]

actually athiesm has nothing to do with believing in a religion, but rather believing in the existance of a god and/or gods.. so theres no point in saying i am a-paganaist etc.... theist means believing in a god or higher power.. no mention in there as to following a religious belief...

[babyvr6]

I'm a godless heathen.

[AutieAB]

Any more questions?

Nope. I just disagree

(But I did just +1 you to wipe out an utterly unfair -1 that somebody added. It's totally inappropriate to -1 people on matters of personal beliefs, folks... )

[Yvhuce]

Dunno. But given sufficient time, technological developments and resources, we can theoretically find out. That's the difference between searching for God and searching for aliens. One is actually possible, with science

The one big problem with that line of reasoning is that the laws of physics and science as even our most advanced minds know them are flawed. There are things that we know that exist (and have observed), which are breaking the laws of physics and giving the scientists fits, as these things are mathematically impossible.

[Dougie]

I dislike when people try to push their religion on others. It make them look like they are doubting the validity of their beliefs.

One way of pushing your beliefs on others is starting a thread with "Are you a (Insert any religion here)?: I am!"

[AutieAB]

The one big problem with that line of reasoning is that the laws of physics and science as even our most advanced minds know them are flawed. There are things that we know that exist (and have observed), which are breaking the laws of physics and giving the scientists fits, as these things are mathematically impossible.

No, the logic is entirely sound. Newton's laws probably aren't quite right. Einstein's laws probably aren't quite right. Just because we don't have a perfect understanding of the laws of physics today (and we certainly don't, I agree with you there!) doesn't mean we are incapable of understanding them better in the future. Like I said, given sufficient time, technological development and resources, we can research and improve our vision of the universe. That includes learning to better understand how it all works.

[KittenAB]

The one big problem with that line of reasoning is that the laws of physics and science as even our most advanced minds know them are flawed. There are things that we know that exist (and have observed), which are breaking the laws of physics and giving the scientists fits, as these things are mathematically impossible.

Yes .... and no ...

Here's the thing, everything starts out as theory and is then explored and found false or true for a reason. Science isn't binary, nothing in the world is, you can't say that "since it doesn't have anything to do with laws dreamt up by scientists, it isn't science." Also, there are theories for even what people think are spirits which they are trying to find ways to test. While there is a lot which we have yet to understand how it works (science) we could eventually figure it out given time.

[hidden]

Athiest.

If there are gods, where did they come from? They can't have always been there.

Then again, how did matter form? How did the stuff that made up the big bang form?

We will never know how the universe formed, but I won't believe it was formed by a higher power.

[Guest Baby-Toa]

As my roommate stated "Just because there is an absence of evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist" Just because it doesn't look like it does, doesn't mean that it does or doesn't exist.

my last two cents...

[XyXy]

"Just because there is an absence of evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist"

So, by this line of reasoning, I could infer that just about anything exists! So, while there's no evidence that a big Diaper Daddy in the 5th dimension who's gonna change all our diapers and make us happy exists, it doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. Which further means that he probably exists, and due to lack of evidence that he in fact doesn't exist, means that he actually does exist! Uuuhhh Daddy!

[sarah_ab]

actually in science no theory is ever proved aboslutely, you can say i did not disprove it, but that doesn' mean you proved it... for example the sun always rises in the east... so far you haven't disproven this statement but you can never prove it because the word always is in there so we cannot prove it, ... but everyday it rises in the east, we have not disproven this statement so it is accepted tentatively as scientific fact... until someone can disprove it.

[AutieAB]

"Just because there is an absence of evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist"

Enter the Flying Spaghetti Monster, stage left!

^^^ Can't prove he doesn't exist either! So maybe he does?

[curiositykilledthecat]

Whenever I get stuck in these kind of debates I just smile and say "I don't argue with idiots" and walk away. This way neither side knows who's I'm on.

[LawrenceWaterhouse]

Postsuppositional agnostic, so not quite atheist.

[XyXy]

Whenever I get stuck in these kind of debates I just smile and say "I don't argue with idiots" and walk away. This way neither side knows who's I'm on.

I would have left this alone, except for the fact that you called apparently all of us "idiots". That's not very nice is it? Besides, how exactly is it that you're "stuck" in this argument? You came to this thread on your own will and chose to reply. Aren't you just a voyeur? A person in the peanut gallery with a hidden opinion, and an inflated sense of ego? Get over yourself! Either join the conversation in a constructive way, or keep your smug insults to yourself.

[Yvhuce]

I would have left this alone, except for the fact that you called apparently all of us "idiots". That's not very nice is it? Besides, how exactly is it that you're "stuck" in this argument? You came to this thread on your own will and chose to reply. Aren't you just a voyeur? A person in the peanut gallery with a hidden opinion, and an inflated sense of ego? Get over yourself! Either join the conversation in a constructive way, or keep your smug insults to yourself.

Presumably, a reference to the circular arguments that form around various topics... Some do question the intelligence of those who keep arguing in circles.