Botox

[Army_Baby1]

I have been thinking about going and getting Botox shots. I do not know what to expect or where to turn yet as I do not want to lie, nor do I think I will be able to lie to the doctor about why I want the shots. Yes I understand what the cost of what I'm thinking about doing, but at the same time I'm hoping that this will push me one way or the other in what I want. Have been thinking about doing this for a long time I just have never had time to do the research for what I want, well trying to find a doctor part of it.

Please give me your input as I'm always looking for information or others thoughts.

Army Toddler

[d_drew12]

Just a warning before everyone starts posting: Be prepared for a lot of negative flack for even thinking, asking, or considering doing this. Many seem to think anyone who wants to be incontinent hasn't given it enough thought and you should just do it naturally. These people who will tell you this however, will not want you telling them how to live their lives though either. Try telling them they shouldn't wear diapers or live a ab/dl lifestyle. I think you already realize the possible consiquences of having botox so to help you out, I will hope people will answer the actual question and not add their critism towards your choice.

Still expect many posts that pertain the following:

Good luck trying to get someone to do this for you

Try the 12 month program

It always sounds like a good idea until you do it

Have you really thought this through?

Now, to answer your question, someone else here has actually had this done in the past. I believe it was done by someone he knew who was in medical school or something along those lines. It worked right away and he was leaking immediately. It was suppose to last about a year and then wear off but it took nearly twice that long if memory serves me. He did like the results but was in for more then he thought. Somethings he didn't expect was that he would be dribbling all the time. Like when he got out of the shower, inbetween changes, etc. many at inconvienent times and always had to have something there to catch it. It to me does sound pretty interesting to do and since it's temporary but long temporary, it would be a hard transition right away but I feel myself, I'd grow into it and roll with the punches. As this guy had said, the novelty wore off but would've done it again so must not have been that bad. Search the threads and you should find his story. It ended abruptly when it sounded as though there were some legal troubles he and the person who helped him got into. Anyway, keep us posted on if you find out any new information.

Good LUCK!

[Army_Baby1]

Thanks for the reply, I remember reading about him, but I can not find the post anymore. By what I have found so far on the web it should last about 3 months, and up to 6 at max but at the same time I could still have some effects for a lot longer then that.

I understand that I will have to listen to a lot of people over my chose. I have been around for a little bit listening to people and how some of them have a one sided view on what is right and what is wrong. I'm not sure if this is what I'm going to do yet as I'm just now thinking about it very hard and long. I have about 4 months before I will be able to do it. So right now is the finishing up the research and then decide whether or not to do it.

Yes you are right that there is going to be the people saying do the 12 month course, but to me that is going to take more work, and then I will still have the other side. If I have to redo the potty training later, it will be just as hard as after the botox. The other side to the coin on this is it really gives me the darkside of the coin and will really force me to think if this was the right choose and something I want to live.

As for finding someone, Yes that will be hard since I do not plan to lie to the doctor, but I do not think that it will be as hard as people make it out to be. It is natural for a person to be greedy and everyone wants money. The only part is how much and how well can you trust a doctor that is only wanting to line their own pockets. Yes I have looked outside the US and I have found a few countries that I could get it done but that only adds to the cost and the lies in the end.

As for the best point that you made, yes it always does sound better till you do it and then you get what you want. And as they say "Watch what you wish for".

Thanks for the reply again and I appreciate the warning and the advice that you have given.

Army Toddler

[DailyDi]

Actually, not a bad way to find out if you really want to be incontinent; since it only lasts 3-6 months.

[collegebaby86]

That seems to be a much more realistic approach... especially if it's only temporary. Best of luck to you.

[BoTox]

As my board handle implies, I have a fascination with botox and have researched it a fair bit. I have no practical experience but I would dearly hope you find someone that is willing to afford you the opportunity.

Please, as much as you can without compromising your personal safety, let us know how it goes and your thoughts upon achieving your goal should you find a willing practitioner.

Good luck in 2010!

[BBoy]

I agree with the others. If it's temporary then it would seem like a safe and interesting to experience incontinence without the permanent implications.

If you do find a doctor to do it please post your experiences.

B.

[Army_Baby1]

Well got the good news and the bad news today. Found a doctor that is ifie about doing, but he said he would do the botox for double the normal cost. I said more then far but do not have what he wants and will not have it for more then a year. So quess it is going to have to wait 2 years as I will not be able to have it next year. Oh well, hope that I come up with the money in the future, Time to start saving and waiting and keep looking. 8K is not to bad I guess.

[Creepymouse]

That does sound fairly reasonable. That's in the ballpark of many other elective/cosmetic procedures. Wife and I are waiting patiently until we can afford a breast augmentation. Good luck!

[Dougie]

Do the 12 month program and you will get there in half the time you are projecting the money will be there.

[d_drew12]

Do the 12 month program and you will get there in half the time you are projecting the money will be there.

Told you ^

Apparently only reads what he wants to.

PS. Any confirmed idea of how long it would last? Do you have to go outside the country to get it done?

[miss marcia]

My only observation is this:- it's different from wetting your diaper normally. I found that since you have no sensation of wetting, you just become wet (continual dribble) the best you can hope for is a bit of sudden extra warmth occasionally if you bend or stretch. Yes, there is the inner knowlege that you are not in control but that was bound up in a lot of other constraints such as the possibility of being found out or the passing of control to a partner. NO cosmetic surgeon worth their salt would do this without a psychiatrist referal and if one said to me he would do it but for twice the normal price I would ask Why? I don't want to be negative but I would suggest trying a long term silcone catheter and find a non return valve for the outlet. If you tried this for a month (presuming you haven't already) it would give you an idea of what it would me like. Before anyone mentions UTI's we started at the "I want to be injected with a toxin" point!

Happy New Year

[babytommy1981]

I know i person who has done it. and they enjoyed it. as they always wanted to know how it felt to live like me. having to change wet diapers in public restrooms. are going with out control. like taking a shower getting donw standing there drying your self off and you pee all over the floor. yup happens more then i like. but its life. they also got to find out how mush it sucks in the summer. having to deal with the urin smell. and having people look at you wierd when you walk out of the bathroom stall holding a diaper in your hand and throwing it out. then washing your hands. after it woren off he has been more of a friend then a buddy. and he knows what im dealing with every day of my life. some times he has even helped me change my diaper if i needed help. 75% of the time i dont need help. the only time i do is if i have an acident poop. when out in public with friends or family. but i say try it and if you enjoy that life style then go for it. I think if you kept up with the shots then in the end you might become 100% control of your blader.

[incondl]

Those who do it for fun should just keep it that way because after a while you don't even think about it therefore I would think the fun for you would wear off. I have been incontinent for some time now so I know both sides. I'm told by my uro that she would like to put in an implant for which I could then control when I go but I have resisted for now. Maybe later I'll do something. She would prefer other avenues than diapers (cath, etc) and I have tried it & hate the feeling. For me having zero control is a pain only when I shower or change. The constant drip may require clean up but I usually use a clip for those inbetween times. As for feeling it I really don't other than after a given period of time I start to feel the swell of the diaper or I notice the weight/rubbing against my thighs. That for me is my cue that changing time is coming or if I'm out of my regular routine I need to soon find a place to change. Anymore there really is no thought about it because I cannot stop it. To me fun is what you can control. I have never really had any fun in what I could not control.

[Goerge]

It would be interesting to know how a doctor would perform these procedures, I would assume one would have general anaesthetic so they could cut a small incision in your groin, Inject the botulinum toxin into the external sphincter muscle paralysing the muscle leaving you with reflex incontinence. I think this sounds totally plausible and a very safe option to take, I mean if you found a competent doctor their is very little that could go wrong apart from injecting the neighbouring detrusor muscle leaving you with urine retention and self cathing until it wears off!

And about finding somebody willing to do this procedure you can be rest assured that it would actually be very easy finding a experienced competent doctor willing to do it, but its going to be expensive...... One option is travelling to a sex reassignment clinic in Thailand (opened minded people who have dealt with all kinds of eccentric people) and being truthful about why you want this...eg! You have the added bonus that you don't have to jump through hoops with psychological assessments, I'll think one would be very surprised at how accommodating they would be plus you have leads of clinics to choose from.

I would really really like to have this procedure done myself, I've been having crazy thoughts on archiving incontinence since puberty, mellowing over time but I'm still desperate in seeing what's its like.... I'm obsessed.

[diapertime42]

Hey Army_Baby1...

You wrote:

>>>Well got the good news and the bad news today. Found a doctor that is ifie about doing, but he said he would do the botox for double the normal cost. I said more then far but do not have what he wants and will not have it for more then a year. So quess it is going to have to wait 2 years as I will not be able to have it next year. Oh well, hope that I come up with the money in the future, Time to start saving and waiting and keep looking. 8K is not to bad I guess.<<<<

Cool... A couple questions. How did you find doctor willing to do this? Did you find him/her online?

What search terms did you use? How did you approach the doctor? (Hey, Doc... I want to be diaper dependent!)

Is the doctor in the U.S.??

I ask these questions since I also have an interest in this, but have not had any luck so far in finding a

doctor willing to do this.

And to Goerge, I don't think they would cut a small incision in your groin, I believe they would go in thru

the urethra, like they do for some types of prostate surgery.

[Opie]

Told you ^

Apparently only reads what he wants to.

^^^Apparently, can't play nice either.

And I'm gonna apologize now for further politicizing this thread...

I would have offered the same notion. Two years to save the money to get the botox procedure, or spend a year training yourself. Of course, if he doesn't want to spend the time (as it seems most people nowadays want instant gratification, not saying OP is this way either), I have no objection to him spending his hard earned money however he wants.

It just seems a bit wasteful to spend $8k on a temporary procedure.... Would make a good down payment on new vehicle or house though.... Just my opinion.

[Creepymouse]

Yes, it would be temporary, but it seems unlikely that you would regain control if you didn't consciously try to. Three months of paralysis in those muscles, you'd likely have to redo potty training anyway.

And there's something to be said for the instant gratification, in this case. Walking in to the doctor's wearing boxers, fully continent, and walking out knowing you're going to be wetting your pants for no less than three months, completely without control.

I commend those who work for their goal, but the feeling to know you're 'flipping the switch' would probably be exceedingly nice.

[d_drew12]

I don't see what's so bad about instant gratification. Why do people see it as the easy way out, lazy, the new generation, unwilling to work for anything, etc. If this were say breast inplant would the doctor say we'll fill it with 10cc, then 50cc, then 100cc, etc increasing the amount over the course of a year until you're at your size or would you just walk in and walk out with the boobs you wanted instantly?

I think if you have the money, and that's what you want to spend it on, then that's your porogative. I can't tell you the number of people I know that have spent money on something over another and I wouldn't do it that way but they do. I've known of people who have $50k cars and live in a $50k trailer home, not something I'd do but there choice.

Some people really just want it to happen and happen now. Not having to concentrate or work on losing your bladder control is one less thing to worry about. You can go about your incontinent life instantly. I don't see this as lazy, maybe just efficient and not to mention, who's to say the 12 month programs going to work for them? Maybe they can't wrap their mind around it so this type of procedure is necessary to over come that.

Either way, many people do many things that aren't really "natural" to there bodies on a dialy basis so who cares if this guy want to inject botox into his bladder muscles, lips, cheeks, toes, whatever. His choice and his bill.

[Army_Baby1]

Thanks everyone for the input about my choose. OK for the first part of it, I do not want the instant graduation of it. I just do not have the time for the 12 months of untraining, to turn around and have to retrain. In my life I go play in the sandbox about every 12 to 16 month and I do not think that it is going to stop any time soon. Yes there is alot to say about taking your time to do something, like anything that is worth doing takes times.

[Opie]

My point was more along the lines of taking two years to save up. If you're gonna save two years then go blow your money, my own personal opinion is that's a waste. Others will undoubtly, and fully expected, see it different.

Being a former Marine, I understood the comment about having four months before the procedure could be done. It was my interpretation ArmyBaby was getting out. Didn't realize it was gonna be a time home then heading back out. Make sense now to go spend the money for a short term deal.

And ddrew, you're not really in the same ball park as my discussion. The botox procedure is temporary. It will wear off. Last I saw, breast implants are for life. You don't get 48DD then they slowly wear down to a 36A. And I'm really not judging, just discussing.

ArmyBaby, thanks for what your doing. I, among many others, appreciate the sacrifices you have to make being in the military. :)You do whatever makes you happy.

[d_drew12]

Well then lets say you only wanted inplants temporarily. It's an anology meant to be similar yet obviously not the same as the topic being discussed, a way to see it in a different light. I'm sure there are people out there that may want a temporary breast enhancement.

I do see the point of why take two years to save to have a temporary procedure when you can do the 12 month program. My take is, you could do the twelve month program and still not wind up with the end result your looking for and have wasted two years of diapers and A LOT of effort with no return as not everyone has the time, effort or ability to achieve this goal through this method. I've used catheters short term and it's very exciting to me to instantly have zero control for several days and no real effort.

To each his own I guess though.

[XyXy]

I'd just like to share my experiences with botox injections. I've had 3 injections over the last year. For those wondering how it's done, it is by a cystoscope that they put deep into your urethra, and there is a needle inside it. Bleeding is minimal, and it hurts for a good day or 2 after the procedure. Incontinence is NOT immediate, nor is it even certain. People who have claimed that it is are no doubt lying. First of all, you have 2 sphincters, one at the bladder neck, called the internal, and one further down, called the external. The external sphincter is where you have voluntary control, and is what is injected. Unless perhaps you get both sphincters injected, there is not going to be total incontinence. Secondly, the botox takes awhile to take effect. Most doctors say 2-5 days before it sets in, but my urologist told me that it takes more like 7-14 days for the external sphincter. I have required this procedure because of a real problem, namely DESD (detrusor external sphincter dyssynergia). Taking into account that I have an abnormal sphincter to begin with, I would like to point out that botox had not been very effective at paralyzing the sphincter for me. This is despite having it done 3 times at the maximum strength, 200 i.u. Also, there are a lot of other reports out there of people having little to no success with it, and many doctors only use it for bladder injections (to reduce overactive bladder), since it seems to have much better effect on the bladder muscle. It is by no means a guaranteed process, and you should really think twice before spending 8K for a procedure that may or may not work.

It is also not a pleasant feeling. Every time I get an injection, there is a dull achy almost nausous feeling in the sphincter for the first 2 weeks, and a minor unpleasant feeling for weeks after that. Even after all my procedures, the sphincter is completely capable of full contraction, stopping urine. The main difference I have noticed from the botox is that when the sphincter contracts (for me it's involuntary), it will relax sooner, and open up wider than normal. However, it would be very incorrect for one to think that the sphincter is "paralyzed" or incompetent. It's just a little more relaxed.

I am also taking alpha-blockers, which actually have a better effect than the botox injection at relaxing both sphincters. I am quite incontinent to begin with, from hypertrophied bladder, and the alpha-blockers do help, but make me leak more in general. My experience has been that alpha-blockers are more effective and with less side effects than the botox, but since my case is pretty extreme, I require both. Good luck whatever you decide to do, but from my perspective, botox is a gamble that you are just likely to lose money on.

[d_drew12]

^Uggghhhh, makes my stomach ache just thinking about it now. I think a lot of us think it's just an instant success with no main. Wishful thinking I guess. No real way to UNDO it afterwards either I'd suppose so stuck with the pain for as long as it last I guess.

Thanks for the insight on that XyXy, and welcome to the boards.

[Incontinent lover]

Hi, my desire is about 'back hole' incontinence.

Is there anybody who have experience getting botox(dysport) vials online?

My neighbor is hospital nurse able to give injection into my external anal sphincter.

Only one question primary for med. professional is about how many units divided into how many needle shots to inject for obtaining desired, but temporal effect. Or any other 'special technique' to give in attention.