Nay Sayers

[Don Incognito]

On 1/14/2024 at 1:50 AM, DAQ said:

I think by definition SRS renders the body incapable of the job it was designed to do. And definitely the "body's hardware" is changed and no longer serves the function it was "designed" for. Our sole function biologically is to reproduce. If nothing else being an ABDL and having incontinence needs/desires has been a humbling factor in my life. Who am I to judge people on their wants and needs.

 

And then there's sterilization surgery (vasectomy/tubal ligation) - people who get it are altering their body in such a manner that it no longer functions "normally", but in a manner that will help them achieve the lifestyle they want (having an active sex life without unwanted pregnancy). Technically it's reversible, but the process isn't all that reliable as I understand (plus if you look on r/childfree, the current trend for women is having the fallopian tubes removed altogether).

 

On 1/18/2024 at 2:47 AM, Hannah YMS said:

I have BIID/BID. @DAQ does too. Why is it such a struggle for people like us to convince the medical priesthood, and people on the Incontinent-Desires subforum, on what should be allowable, and yet, anyone can just opt for plastic surgery as if there's nothing wrong with it? Have you seen what 100s of plastic surgeries can do to the same person? It's horrifying, and yet is, on some scale, socially encouraged in certain places, such as Los Angeles.

Not to mention if you look into the world of body modification, there are all kinds of things that would be WAY more detrimental to one's job prospects than wearing diapers.

[spark]

1 hour ago, Don Incognito said:

 

And then there's sterilization surgery (vasectomy/tubal ligation) - people who get it are altering their body in such a manner that it no longer functions "normally", but in a manner that will help them achieve the lifestyle they want (having an active sex life without unwanted pregnancy). Technically it's reversible, but the process isn't all that reliable as I understand (plus if you look on r/childfree, the current trend for women is having the fallopian tubes removed altogether).

You do understand your leap of faith, right?  

You are comparing a surgery that is performed on millions of men and women to a surgery that you need to find a single surgeon who practices in a country with limited regulations.  Vasectomies' are 99% successful and about 95% of the surgeries have no complications.  It is safe, and the outcome is that you can f*ck as much as you want without worrying about getting a shot past the goalie.  You can do all the mental gymnastics you want, but it's not in any way self-harm. 

Tubal ligation has far more complications and the reversal is very complicated.  But, have you read how many doctors won't perform that surgery on childless women of child-bearing age?

I know this: I have 4 doctors in my life who would physically try to stop me from traveling to Mexico.   

I'm in the minority on this thread, so take their advice if you think I'm just being an intolerant AH.

[Don Incognito]

That was my point - how does one decide what qualifies as an acceptable reason to undergo surgery, and what qualifies as as self-harm warranting psychiatric intervention? I will admit that this feels like something of a gray area.

[cathdiap]

Everyone is free to do with their body whatever they want. Unpotty training, catheters, stents, surgeries and so forth.  But only if they pay for all the costs that are caused by their actions. I think it is very unfair and unetical to undergo surgery to become incontinent and than lying about it to receive aftercare that is covered by their insurance. 

Everyone is also free to share their desires, plans and actions to achieve incontinence on this board.

And everybody is free as well to agree or respectfully disagree  with these plans and actions. 

If you don't like nay sayers then don'r share your plans and actions here.

[Reddy]

1 hour ago, cathdiap said:

Everyone is free to do with their body whatever they want. Unpotty training, catheters, stents, surgeries and so forth.  But only if they pay for all the costs that are caused by their actions. I think it is very unfair and unetical to undergo surgery to become incontinent and than lying about it to receive aftercare that is covered by their insurance. 

Everyone is also free to share their desires, plans and actions to achieve incontinence on this board.

And everybody is free as well to agree or respectfully disagree  with these plans and actions. 

If you don't like nay sayers then don'r share your plans and actions here.

So we can't get any healthcare while also having privacy about what we've done?  I don't agree that it's unethical.  I think it's okay to become the person you want to be, whether it's getting a tattoo, doing extreme sports, having children, or being incontinent, and then get healthcare in spite of that condition.

If you don't like my healthcare needs then don't buy the same insurance as me.  Or just pay cash for your healthcare.

[spark]

3 hours ago, Reddy said:

So we can't get any healthcare while also having privacy about what we've done?  I don't agree that it's unethical.  I think it's okay to become the person you want to be, whether it's getting a tattoo, doing extreme sports, having children, or being incontinent, and then get healthcare in spite of that condition.

If you don't like my healthcare needs then don't buy the same insurance as me.  Or just pay cash for your healthcare.

You missed the point of the post, and you sound butthurt because other people don't agree with you.

It goes back to what I've always thought when I read these posts from people seeking these types of surgeries.  Most- if not all of them, have convinced themselves that this type of surgery is the sole thing that will make them whole with their MH.   They ignore serious red flags, like the fact that the surgery is only performed by certain surgeons in countries with limited medical regulations (Mexico or Thailand).   They react negatively to anybody who points out the red flags.  In my opinion, if you are getting butthurt over criticism, you're not in a good place.  It is more likely that you will be worse off after the surgery because permanent non-reversible incontinence isn't what you might think it is.

[Reddy]

7 minutes ago, spark said:

You missed the point of the post, and you sound butthurt because other people don't agree with you.

It goes back to what I've always thought when I read these posts from people seeking these types of surgeries.  Most- if not all of them, have convinced themselves that this type of surgery is the sole thing that will make them whole with their MH.   They ignore serious red flags, like the fact that the surgery is only performed by certain surgeons in countries with limited medical regulations (Mexico or Thailand).   They react negatively to anybody who points out the red flags.  In my opinion, if you are getting butthurt over criticism, you're not in a good place.  It is more likely that you will be worse off after the surgery because permanent non-reversible incontinence isn't what you might think it is.

I've gotten a lot of criticism and red flags pointed out.  But it's weird to me that it's being called unethical.  That seems like really a different argument.  I've been very pleasant in my thread, more so than a lot of the red flag wavers.  You sound butthurt too, btw.  You must not be in a good place I guess.  And you really missed the point because I was talking about the healthcare topic that was brought up, whereas you took it back to your unrelated prior thoughts about people ignoring so called red flags.

[spark]

1 hour ago, Reddy said:

I've gotten a lot of criticism and red flags pointed out.  But it's weird to me that it's being called unethical.  That seems like really a different argument.  I've been very pleasant in my thread, more so than a lot of the red flag wavers.  You sound butthurt too, btw.  You must not be in a good place I guess.  And you really missed the point because I was talking about the healthcare topic that was brought up, whereas you took it back to your unrelated prior thoughts about people ignoring so called red flags.

You've heard the red flags, but you haven't processed through them.  It sounds like you're desperate for confirmation that you would be doing the right thing

I don't see how I'm butthurt or in a bad place.  First of all, I'm finally in a good place with my level of incontinence/unpotytraining.   I perfectly happy to wear a diaper 24/7 and pee in it almost all the time.  My potty training is now at the same level as a three-year-old who doesn't want to use the potty, which is what I wanted in the first place.  It took a long time to get there but I knew that was what I wanted when I got there.

I'm also not butthurt because I'm far too old to be concerned with the opinions of random anonymous people on the internet.  You're an adult, and you choose to disregard the red flags, that's on you.

As for the surgery being unethical: I hope we all can agree there is a line where it goes too far.  The culture of this board, and especially this thread, is this is a surgery that is life-affirming and will help somebody feel whole.  IMO, and it's just my opinion, I think it crosses that line.

I'm going to show you two absurd examples of examples that cross the line.    The first is people with an amputation fetish and seek to have limbs amputated (PS- it a real thing).   I would hope we would discourage people from amputating a healthy limb even though they feel that it is required to be fulfilled.  I see this surgery as an extension of that surgery.

The other situation happens far too often and doesn't even require you to visit a doctor to do it.  It is permanent and destroys multiple lives.  I would hope that we would never encourage anybody to do that to themselves.  IMO- if we can't draw the line there, we are f-d.

 

[cathdiap]

The operation itself is not unethical. You pay someone to harm your body. Fine.

But you're going to be using insurance money that other people have paid premiums for just to cover the cost of certain unexpected, unwanted, and much-needed care. The aftercare you expect before you even undergo surgery does not meet those criteria. I think you know that and that's why you're willing to lie about it. That is unfair and unethical.

[Reddy]

8 hours ago, spark said:

You've heard the red flags, but you haven't processed through them.  It sounds like you're desperate for confirmation that you would be doing the right thing

I don't see how I'm butthurt or in a bad place.  First of all, I'm finally in a good place with my level of incontinence/unpotytraining.   I perfectly happy to wear a diaper 24/7 and pee in it almost all the time.  My potty training is now at the same level as a three-year-old who doesn't want to use the potty, which is what I wanted in the first place.  It took a long time to get there but I knew that was what I wanted when I got there.

I'm also not butthurt because I'm far too old to be concerned with the opinions of random anonymous people on the internet.  You're an adult, and you choose to disregard the red flags, that's on you.

As for the surgery being unethical: I hope we all can agree there is a line where it goes too far.  The culture of this board, and especially this thread, is this is a surgery that is life-affirming and will help somebody feel whole.  IMO, and it's just my opinion, I think it crosses that line.

I'm going to show you two absurd examples of examples that cross the line.    The first is people with an amputation fetish and seek to have limbs amputated (PS- it a real thing).   I would hope we would discourage people from amputating a healthy limb even though they feel that it is required to be fulfilled.  I see this surgery as an extension of that surgery.

The other situation happens far too often and doesn't even require you to visit a doctor to do it.  It is permanent and destroys multiple lives.  I would hope that we would never encourage anybody to do that to themselves.  IMO- if we can't draw the line there, we are f-d.

 

- You don't really know that I haven't processed through them.  You just don't agree with my conclusions.

- Limb amputation is perfectly fine, and it does make those people happy.

- I don't see how I'm butthurt or in a bad place.

7 hours ago, cathdiap said:

The operation itself is not unethical. You pay someone to harm your body. Fine.

But you're going to be using insurance money that other people have paid premiums for just to cover the cost of certain unexpected, unwanted, and much-needed care. The aftercare you expect before you even undergo surgery does not meet those criteria. I think you know that and that's why you're willing to lie about it. That is unfair and unethical.

I see partly what you are saying, but I disagree in the end.  Based on your argument I think we would need to start saying it's unethical for people to do anything physically risky.  Of course I do not want anything bad to happen to me, and I don't want to need any care.  It costs me money, too.  But yes, there are risks to what I am doing, and I might need care.  There are risks in so many things that people are allowed to do, and I don't think they normally consider the ethics, nor does anyone blame them.  There are risks in getting gender confirmation surgery, riding in cars, going outside on hikes, having drug addictions, etc.  These people are living their lives, making choices.  They are just doing their best and living without concern of taking too much risk so as to burden the insurance system.  I don't see what I'm doing as different.  And while I don't want to need any care, I know it would use resources, but I might still need it, and I happen to disagree on principle that I should uniquely be labeled as unethical.

[cathdiap]

17 minutes ago, Reddy said:

and I happen to disagree on principle that I should uniquely be labeled as unethical.

Then don't lie about it and accept the consequences. 

I find it really confusing that you seem to be hesitant to be open and honest about your decisions. It makes me wonder if you truly have BID. 

Don't get me wrong: I truly hope the surgery will be successful and leave you incontinent for life without complications, without regrets and without shame.

 

[Reddy]

4 minutes ago, cathdiap said:

Then don't lie about it and accept the consequences. 

I find it really confusing that you seem to be hesitant to be open and honest about your decisions. It makes me wonder if you truly have BID. 

Don't get me wrong: I truly hope the surgery will be successful and leave you incontinent for life without complications, without regrets and without shame.

 

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I don't think there would be any difference in consequences.  I will be telling my doctors I had a surgery.  All TURP surgeries are classed as elective (meaning pre-planned).  The only thing I'm not telling them is the motivation behind it.  Many have said that I should tell them, and that it makes no difference.  I just don't want to come out as desiring incontinence.

I'm not sure if I have BID.  I didn't think so/didn't consider it.  I just want to be incontinent.

Thank you, I do appreciate the wish for success without complications, regret, or shame. 🙏

[Diapered Dave]

For those who are saying this is unethical,  well most people fall into that group, in one way or another. Some folks would say ALL ABDL folks are unethical because we are filling up the landfills with disposable diapers that we don't really need. 

Some states now allow bikers to drive motorcycles without wearing helmets. When they crash and have a head injury, well the insurance that we pay into is affected. Some say those bikers are unethical.

Then there are folks who for religious reasons, oppose birth control, abortion, gender change, etc... and don't believe their tax dollars or insurance dollars should pay for it. 

Heck, I've been called unethical by PETA people because I like to eat meat, and supposedly cow farts are causing global warming. 

To which I say... "Pass the steak sauce."

[cathdiap]

You missed my point. Lying for your own financial gain at the expense of others is dishonest and unethical.

In all your examples, lying is not involved. 

58 minutes ago, Diapered Dave said:

Heck, I've been called unethical by PETA people because I like to eat meat, and supposedly cow farts are causing global warming. 

Although global warming is a big lie. 

1 hour ago, Diapered Dave said:

"Pass the steak sauce."

I only eat meat, so they can stick that sauce bottle somewhere where the sun don't shine.  Just pass the steak.

 

[DAQ]

13 hours ago, spark said:

You've heard the red flags, but you haven't processed through them.  It sounds like you're desperate for confirmation that you would be doing the right thing

I don't see how I'm butthurt or in a bad place.  First of all, I'm finally in a good place with my level of incontinence/unpotytraining.   I perfectly happy to wear a diaper 24/7 and pee in it almost all the time.  My potty training is now at the same level as a three-year-old who doesn't want to use the potty, which is what I wanted in the first place.  It took a long time to get there but I knew that was what I wanted when I got there.

I'm also not butthurt because I'm far too old to be concerned with the opinions of random anonymous people on the internet.  You're an adult, and you choose to disregard the red flags, that's on you.

As for the surgery being unethical: I hope we all can agree there is a line where it goes too far.  The culture of this board, and especially this thread, is this is a surgery that is life-affirming and will help somebody feel whole.  IMO, and it's just my opinion, I think it crosses that line.

I'm going to show you two absurd examples of examples that cross the line.    The first is people with an amputation fetish and seek to have limbs amputated (PS- it a real thing).   I would hope we would discourage people from amputating a healthy limb even though they feel that it is required to be fulfilled.  I see this surgery as an extension of that surgery.

The other situation happens far too often and doesn't even require you to visit a doctor to do it.  It is permanent and destroys multiple lives.  I would hope that we would never encourage anybody to do that to themselves.  IMO- if we can't draw the line there, we are f-d.

 

I'm a biological male. If I was trans and sought gender reassignment surgery (the Mexico Transgender Clinic's bread-and-butter by the way) the first thing they would do is amputate my penis. You keep getting hung up on this idea that there are acceptable and unacceptable things that other people can do with their body. And because by your own admission you have achieved your goals you lack the empathy necessary to understand what someone else is going through. And you don't truly understand it either. 

Frankly I find your logic pathway disturbing. It is the same logic that leads people to you can't be gay, Trans, or have an abortion because I find it reprehensible. So no, we do not all agree that this is the line too far. And your red flags are not someone else's, full stop.

The reason people are butthurt by your opinion is because it is such a hot take on a forum that is supposed to be for people who are seeking incontinence that you burned their ass.

If someone comes onthis forum and is unsure if they want to be incontinent or on the fence, nay say away and disuuade or point out the bad times. Being incontinent objectively is less fun than being fully continent. It's expensive, embarrassing, and can be limiting. Being diaper dependant sucks. BUT, when someone comes on here with the conviction to know what they need to be their authentic selves and reach the next level of self actualization, I am trying really hard to understand the crab in the bucket attitude some people have.

As to want incontinence, I can't change who I am and will live my best life with the circumstances dealt.  And being incontinent by any means necessary, including surger, is the best way to do that. And many people here share that same experience.

[jeremy12312]

2 hours ago, DAQ said:

BUT, when someone comes on here with the conviction to know what they need to be their authentic selves and reach the next level of self actualization, I am trying really hard to understand the crab in the bucket attitude some people have.

I think this particular situation is weighing more than most, because the poster hates wearing diapers sometimes.  That is not a person who has accepted the risks and inconveniences inherent with incontinence.  They want it for the sole purpose of forcing them to wear diapers even when they don't want to.

It's someone who says, "I'm going to hit myself on the head with a rock until I bleed every time I make a mistake at work so that I stop making mistakes at work."  Brown Bobby , Ferix, et. al went through the mental health counseling and lived as an incontinent person before taking their measures.  This is someone with a lot of money looking for a quick solution that all evidence presented has proven they haven't weighed all the negatives.

"TSA will be inconvenient in the future," the board says.  The person who sounds like they've never worn diapers to the airport says, "nah, I don't think it will be so bad."  People here are sharing their lived experiences with someone who's about to start having them, and this person says, "I don't think that's right" when they've not actually experienced it themselves.  I think this is more dangerous than naysayers, this is someone making a decision of great import who only wants to hear "yes men". 

[Reddy]

2 minutes ago, jeremy12312 said:

I think this particular situation is weighing more than most, because the poster hates wearing diapers sometimes.  That is not a person who has accepted the risks and inconveniences inherent with incontinence.  They want it for the sole purpose of forcing them to wear diapers even when they don't want to.

It's someone who says, "I'm going to hit myself on the head with a rock until I bleed every time I make a mistake at work so that I stop making mistakes at work."  Brown Bobby , Ferix, et. al went through the mental health counseling and lived as an incontinent person before taking their measures.  This is someone with a lot of money looking for a quick solution that all evidence presented has proven they haven't weighed all the negatives.

"TSA will be inconvenient in the future," the board says.  The person who sounds like they've never worn diapers to the airport says, "nah, I don't think it will be so bad."  People here are sharing their lived experiences with someone who's about to start having them, and this person says, "I don't think that's right" when they've not actually experienced it themselves.  I think this is more dangerous than naysayers, this is someone making a decision of great import who only wants to hear "yes men". 

I disagree with a lot of the details here

- I don't want to just hear yes men.  I've been very appreciative of the posts sharing experiences from people.  I've also posted multiple times about the struggles and complicatons from people I've spoken with who had the procedure.  Have you done that?  I think I see some people who only want to hear yes men.  If I'm to see criticism, you can hear criticism back.  It doesn't mean I'm what you make me out to be.

- TSA really won't be that bad.  Who cares?  It's not some nightmare.

- I really don't remember saying "that's not right" to someone's lived experiences.  But come on, that doesn't make their experience my experience automatically.

- I don't think I said I hate wearing diapers either.  Just that I get bored of it and would rather not.  Why is that so hard for people to understand?  Most people seem to agree wearing diapers is difficult... it seems to be what people want me to understand.  I do.

- You really don't know that I haven't accepted the risks and inconveniences.  You really just do not.

- Nothing has proven that I haven't weighed all the negatives.  I've weighed them a lot.  Just because I come to a different conclusion than you doesn't mean I have zero thought process and didn't weigh anything.  At best it just means we disagree.  At worst it means you're unwilling to think outside your own thought bubble.

Just wanted to point those things out.

[rusty pins]

You can get medical insurance.  If you chose to make yourself incontinent, that is fine.  It's your choice.  Just don't expect others to pay higher premiums so you can get your diapers paid for by your insurance.  Yes, if someone becomes medically incontinent by an accident or old age, that is different.  They didn't choose to make themselves incontinent knowing going forward they would need to be in diapers 24/7/365.  Diapers are costly so if anyone chooses to make themselves incontinent 24/7. I feel it's their choice and they should be prepared to foot the costs of their diapers.  Someone chooses to get a tattoo -  I wouldn't expect their insurance to pay for it or the removal later on if they change their mind.  If there are medical complication from being tattooed, sue the tattoo artist.  If you have signed a waiver knowing there could be issues or infections from being tattooed, suck it up!

[foreverdl]

On 1/11/2024 at 6:26 PM, oznl said:

It’s an interesting question.  I’ve seen the same phenomenon.  Let me give you my (slightly nuanced) take on this.

Firstly, I’m a very strong believer in bodily autonomy.  Ultimately, it’s YOUR body and it’s your decision what you do with it.

Having said that, I think if somebody is positing their intent to undertake a venture into incontinence then that is implicitly inviting feedback.  Furthermore, there are people on here who MAY have cogent warnings about what the terrain looks like where you plan to go and that might be something that you’d want to consider.

I think that advice should be moderated to the course of action being considered.

If somebody wants to “untrain” by wearing diapers 24/7 then I say “go for it!”  It’s going to take ages (years) and if it’s not for you, you’re going to work that out for yourself along the way fairly soon and turn back long before any physiological bridges are burned.  If you DON’T, then you got what you truly wanted and that’s a win.

If somebody has found a low cost surgeon in Elbonia and, at the ripe old age of 18, decides to spend the inheritance they just got from their Grandmother to “make shit happen” (pun intended), then there’s a strong argument for some advice to be provided.  (The counterpoint to this is if that somebody is a mature adult and has lived the 24/7 thing long enough to know this IS truly what they want and they’re ok with Elbonian surgery standard, well, then I think “bodily autonomy” rule applies).  You've pretty much made the same point with your "physical harm" comment although what is "harm" and what is a "body hack" can vary according to frame of reference.

I think one of the complicating factors here though is frequently enough, “advice” is presented as “abuse” and that’s NOT ok.  There are a few (and if you’re super lucky, they’ll hone in on your post like flies to a carcass) who seem to be on some kind of social-capital-bonfire mission to barge into this forum and tell people in it how dumb they are for admitting an objective the discussion of which is the whole point of the forum!  Nobody seems to be able to stop them.  The best that can be done is to block them and move on.

Don’t throw the metaphorical baby out with the bathwater though.  There could be good insight here from people who have gone before you who may know.  Pilots radio ahead to find out about the weather at their destination.

I like your reply . I have had to block a couple on here because I got tired of them pushing and being mean towards me . I am here for support and to have someone to talk to that has gone through common  things and will Help me . A person can get a point across without being a mean person.  The people that are hateful can go to a different site. Thanks for your comments . Your point that advice can turn into Abuse is a good point.

[foreverdl]

1 hour ago, Reddy said:

I disagree with a lot of the details here

- I don't want to just hear yes men.  I've been very appreciative of the posts sharing experiences from people.  I've also posted multiple times about the struggles and complicatons from people I've spoken with who had the procedure.  Have you done that?  I think I see some people who only want to hear yes men.  If I'm to see criticism, you can hear criticism back.  It doesn't mean I'm what you make me out to be.

- TSA really won't be that bad.  Who cares?  It's not some nightmare.

- I really don't remember saying "that's not right" to someone's lived experiences.  But come on, that doesn't make their experience my experience automatically.

- I don't think I said I hate wearing diapers either.  Just that I get bored of it and would rather not.  Why is that so hard for people to understand?  Most people seem to agree wearing diapers is difficult... it seems to be what people want me to understand.  I do.

- You really don't know that I haven't accepted the risks and inconveniences.  You really just do not.

- Nothing has proven that I haven't weighed all the negatives.  I've weighed them a lot.  Just because I come to a different conclusion than you doesn't mean I have zero thought process and didn't weigh anything.  At best it just means we disagree.  At worst it means you're unwilling to think outside your own thought bubble.

Just wanted to point those things out.

You know I can't say you or anyone else here has debated within themselves all that we want to do. We are all soooo different and we are also soo much alike . But just like a sibling we need to agree to disagree on some subjects . We don't have to deal with the outcome of the surgery unless WE are getting it with you. That's what I say. If I could afford to do your surgery I just may have it done, I am older, but to have to live all those years with the pain of wanting to wear diapers with it being a medical condition , Like I did. I wanted to do that almost all of my life. I am now 66, and I have back and forth I can't pee, or I can't hold. I am not wanting to go through all of the testing for some dumb Dr to say it's all in my head...... So if it takes an out of the USA Dr to make you comfortable with your life then that's it.  Done And Done ....There are risks in any surgery , I just hope your Dr does it safe and correct . And I want to know the outcome . 

[spark]

13 hours ago, Reddy said:

- Limb amputation is perfectly fine, and it does make those people happy.

You jumped the shark on that one, but apparently, that makes me an intolerant AH.

Can I repeat this:  Do not do limb amputation!  It is wrong!  Don't do it!  You should not encourage it!  Anybody who would do such a thing is wrong.   Go ahead and block me, because all you want is self-confirmation.

[spark]

9 hours ago, DAQ said:

As to want incontinence, I can't change who I am and will live my best life with the circumstances dealt.  And being incontinent by any means necessary, including surger, is the best way to do that. And many people here share that same experience.

My question is: what does the surgery give you that you can't get by wearing a diaper and pretending to be incontinent?

I don't like the comparison between gender-affirming surgery and incontinence.   I don't think it is an accurate comparison.

To say that my reservations with the incontinence surgery are in any way similar to transphobia and homophobia is a reach and insulting to the LBGTQI community that has to deal with intolerance.

Let's put it this way: we had somebody defend elective amputation surgery, which I post as an absurd example to show there has to be a line.  There is a line, and where is the line?

[Reddy]

1 hour ago, spark said:

You jumped the shark on that one, but apparently, that makes me an intolerant AH.

Can I repeat this:  Do not do limb amputation!  It is wrong!  Don't do it!  You should not encourage it!  Anybody who would do such a thing is wrong.   Go ahead and block me, because all you want is self-confirmation.

This actually surprised me.  We simply don't agree on this item. 🤷‍♂️

53 minutes ago, spark said:

My question is: what does the surgery give you that you can't get by wearing a diaper and pretending to be incontinent?

The answer to this question is incontinence.  It's what we desire here in this forum.

[spark]

18 minutes ago, Reddy said:

The answer to this question is incontinence.  It's what we desire here in this forum.

Seriously- if you can't draw the line at elective amputation, I don't know what to say.

That is a simplistic answer to a complex question.   What does the incontinence get you that conditioning can't, and why do you want that level of incontinence?

FTR- there was a time that I considered having the surgery.  It was also at a time that I prayed that it would be my day to go.  I didn't want to kill myself, but I wanted to die.  I was not in a good place mentally.

In my mind, I needed to have a reason to wear diapers.   I could justify wearing diapers all the time because I would need them.   At some point, I realized  that I don't need justification to wear a diaper.   Nobody cares if I wear a diaper.  Eventually, I started wearing them 24/7.

[Reddy]

12 minutes ago, spark said:

Seriously- if you can't draw the line at elective amputation, I don't know what to say.

That is a simplistic answer to a complex question.   What does the incontinence get you that conditioning can't, and why do you want that level of incontinence?

FTR- there was a time that I considered having the surgery.  It was also at a time that I prayed that it would be my day to go.  I didn't want to kill myself, but I wanted to die.  I was not in a good place mentally.

In my mind, I needed to have a reason to wear diapers.   I could justify wearing diapers all the time because I would need them.   At some point, I realized  that I don't need justification to wear a diaper.   Nobody cares if I wear a diaper.  Eventually, I started wearing them 24/7.

I learned almost two decades ago from my friend studying for a medical degree that people who wish for an amputation almost never regret it, certainly not something that can be said for other cosmetic surgeries.  I just don't see the problem with it.  It's fine that you won't accept people getting that type of surgery.  We just disagree about it, I guess.

I'm sorry you went through that time.  And I'm glad pretending worked for you.  I desire incontinence.  I want something that I can't get from putting on a diaper and pretending to be incontinent.  We just disagree on a few things.  I won’t try to pathologize you for not understanding these things.  I also hope people will start to afford me the same respect.