Retraining successes, failures, attempts etc

[playwithfire]

Hello All,

I am very interested in hearing about retraining attempts from people who have successfully untrained to a level of incontinence and/or bedwetting, but then decided to try to regain their continence.  Success, failure, improvement, what went into it, what worked, what didn't work etc etc.

Please share your story here, if you don't mind. 

[Kif]

I guess you could call me experienced with retraining? 

Somehow I managed to reach points of consistent bedwetting (at least 3-4 times per week for several weeks, progressively increasing), and then managed to completely reverse it. The first time happened after 2 months, and the other after 5. This also happened despite day control not really changing all that much. 

In either case, definitely nowhere near long enough to have reached that via physical mechanisms typically described by e.g. Kali, so I suspect it mostly (if not entirely) a matter of changing thought patterns/habits and freeing up emotional blockages so it could sink in faster. I was untraining both my bladder and bowels, journaled extensively (privately), involved hypnosis to reinforce changing my habits consciously, and otherwise really obsessing over it in both scenarios to help things really sink in. The longer attempt took longer, I think, because I had bigger emotional things to push through (not directly related to diapers, but tied to them) and also because I went into it knowing I could be going into gender-affirming surgery in less than a year (so not feeling I could really commit yet, but wanted to try anyways).

The way I stopped in both cases was stopping wearing diapers cold-turkey and making a conscious effort to retrain during the day too. But, in addition to that there were strong notable emotional/mental circumstances for stopping. In the first, it was realizing I was trans and needing to focus on starting my transition. In the latter, it was getting my surgery date and needing to stop wherever I was at the time. 

That said, I did not leave either of those completely untouched. My urgency got worse after the first attempt and I developed noticeable post-void drip. After both I had at least one incident of waking up in the middle of wetting in my sleep. And after the second, I was leaking pee at times when laughing and experiencing "unpermitted" release of flatulence. It's hard to say what happened after surgery, but my bowel control has felt "spongy" and my urgency feels worse.

So "successful" retraining? Mostly yeah, but also not exactly coming from actual incontinence or "fully successful" untraining. And while I've certainly not had any accidents and my control is 'fine', it definitely isn't what it was before. All I feel I can actually state factually is that maybe you can wet the bed without losing daytime continence in 2-5 months, and after 2-5 months reverse it.

[playwithfire]

4 hours ago, Kif said:

So "successful" retraining? Mostly yeah, but also not exactly coming from actual incontinence or "fully successful" untraining. And while I've certainly not had any accidents and my control is 'fine', it definitely isn't what it was before. All I feel I can actually state factually is that maybe you can wet the bed without losing daytime continence in 2-5 months, and after 2-5 months reverse it.

Thanks for your post.  Really interesting and helpful. Hoping to see more from others as well. 

[oznl]

I spent a fair bit of time looking around before “taking the plunge”.  Like @PaddedConnor, I suspect that a lot of people just self-select themselves OUT of the process automatically and for the very few that persist with it, there seems to be little if any “buyer’s regret”.

As for daytime incontinence, not much sign of it with me.  I'm not sure if it's possible or not but I'll keep reporting as and if news comes to hand ?

As I’ve made no attempt so far to come back from bedwetting, I’m not qualified to directly answer your question there either however I can amplify it.  @Kif, how did you train yourself back out of bedwetting?  What did you do?  How long did it take?

It might be that I’m in deeper.  I started noticing isolated bedwetting incidents probably 18 months ago.  They stayed isolated but at around the 3 year mark it all of a sudden what @Kaliborio would call “spiraled”.  Weirdly, I find myself quite comfortable with this (physically – I have good nappies and a good leak management system but more pertinently, mentally).

If I DID have to retrain though, I’m not sure how I’d go about it.  I don’t know what NOT to do.  Night pee just happens.  Not EVERY night but a lot of them.  Actually it COULD be every night.  How would I know? 

It's not even about withholding fluids because I know I will sleep-wet minimal quantities within 90 minutes of falling asleep (so it's NOT a full bladder that causes this).  Furthermore, I know from damp experience that if I skip the nappy, I’ll just pee the bed anyway now.  I guess there’s the ignominy of a bedwetting alarm…

[Kif]

2 hours ago, oznl said:

  @Kif, how did you train yourself back out of bedwetting?  What did you do?  How long did it take?

2 hours ago, oznl said:

Furthermore, I know from damp experience that if I skip the nappy, I’ll just pee the bed anyway now.  I guess there’s the ignominy of a bedwetting alarm…

So, I'll quote myself and then elaborate:

Quote

The way I stopped in both cases was stopping wearing diapers cold-turkey and making a conscious effort to retrain during the day too. But, in addition to that there were strong notable emotional/mental circumstances for stopping. In the first, it was realizing I was trans and needing to focus on starting my transition. In the latter, it was getting my surgery date and needing to stop wherever I was at the time. 

As far as time goes, I'd estimate maybe less than a week? Hard to tell when the time-between wet mornings is 1-2 days. I had a night where I woke up partially wet but that was it. I continued to wake up dry after that.

It's hard for me to judge in your case because you've been going at this long enough I wouldn't be surprised if physical changes took place. 

That said, at least on the mental front this is what is important:

• The thought of bedwetting has to be uncomfortable, genuinely.
  • The first time, it was emotionally triggering and I was already overwhelmed emotionally with other stuff. I had started transitioning, and diapers were somehow associated with pre-transition me...the feelings were complex and there was ultimately a feeling of 'finality' for one half of my life. I didn't start really reconnecting with it again until last year, it was a mess consciously and a complete upheaval unconsciously re-contextualizing myself / my identity.
  • The second time, I was genuinely afraid it would affect the results of my surgery/healing. Despite the doctors stating it'd be fine, ofc I'd catastrophize and think bedwetting -> infection -> damage to neovag and/or death. Even if imagined, nothing like the threat of death to punch through to the subconscious.
• Remove anything that makes bedwetting tolerable, e.g. no fallbacks. Diapers are comfy and make bedwetting feel 'safer', so off they come at night.
• Typical precautions; avoid fluids, and especially avoid alcohol. This should help reduce the possibility of having enough volume to trigger wetting and whatever effect alcohol seems to have (seems to be pretty universal for folks to wet if untraining and imbibing the night before)
• Track wet mornings/nights so you can see your progress. This is to prevent yourself from thinking you're worse/better than you actually are. 
• Journal, see what other mental/emotional hangups you have about leaving diapers, staying dry, losing sleep to make it happen, etc.

But again, those are all mental game things. If you've physically progressed to a point where you actually cannot hold it during the day then I would expect at best you wake up a lot at night. If that happens, diapers or even cold sheets may become more appealing than losing sleep.

The only thing I think you can really do at that point is try to get back more day control / ability to hold longer, and possibly add a bucket or something at your bedside to encourage peeing anywhere other than in bed or in diapers (sounds silly, but half-awake me can be too lazy to walk the fifteen feet to the bathroom, sustain the shock from the lights, pull down my pants, etc). Make your conscious life so focused on getting to the bathroom (or at least out of bed) that it sinks in subconsciously as you gain back physical strength (assuming that's possible).

[Mindylou]

I'm currently in the process of retraining in the daytime. I was 24/7 for 7 months before stopping this past weekend. It's so hard and kinda painful too. Learning to Hold It again is nerve wracking! I try to go to the bathroom every hour or two and hold it between those times. I make sure to know the location of the nearest bathroom at all times. I had to make the decision to stop daytime wearing because of the expense, as other bills have come up that are more important than my fetish. I am not retraining for night right now though, I have been wearing diapers at night for a few years and I don't believe I could go back without the fear of waking to a wet bed. That expense will have to remain. 

[Kawaharu]

For me, they once tried to potty train me but I failed potty training because I was uncomfortable in using the potty. As a result, I was put back in diapers and never able to potty train again. Since then, I’m kept in diapers permanently and I don’t even wear adult underwear or use the potty anymore. It’s why I’m kept diapered with no chance of ever going through potty training. Which is why I’m comfortable with being kept in diapers permanently. 

[hlcl]

@mindylou

 Diapers are a big expense.  With diapers you pretty much get what you pay for.  They are something you can't cheap out on.

Good luck with retraining.  It will take time. Don't be discouraged by accidents.  They are part of the retraining process. 

Please let us know how it goes. You have a supportive community here who will celebrate your success and cheer you on. 

[DLJeff52]

@hlcl  What I love about this community is when it supports one another no matter what...well done! :)

[Hannah YMS]

On 5/13/2022 at 2:26 AM, Eido said:

Something I've realized over these last 5 or so years is that my feelings about and enthusiasm for untraining/retraining are closely tied to my MDD/GAD mood-swings.

Same, but for me it's bipolar disorder, so when I get hypomanic, I really go for it to my detriment. Ended up in the ER once due to lost stent because of it. Yeah.. good times ^^;

But I'm still in the state of untraining. I still have full control despite being 24/7 for nearly 2 years and actively untraining. Major dysphoria still due to not being incontinent. Interesting for me to reply to this thread, because if I ever successfully untrained, you can bet I'll never attempt to retrain.

@Eido, since you've lost nearly all bowel control and since it doesn't appear to be fixable any time soon, why don't you untrain your bladder again? Is it just too much work and instead you'll just let nature take its course instead?

[Mindylou]

Hello all, just an update on my retraining progress. It's taken me over two weeks but I think I'm retrained in daytime for the most part . I don't constantly worry about where the closest bathroom is but I do always know and make sure to go potty before I leave the house. I think my bladder is working again but I can't wait too long and drink much because that's a guarantee I will have an urge incontinence accident. Sometimes it feels full but when I go potty I don't think I empty completely and it feels weird.its still pretty sensitive.  Night time is still diaper time and I don't really think I will ever retrain for that. My Abenas and me are best friends now. 

[oznl]

18 hours ago, Eido said:

Untraining my bladder would actually be the easier option here ? I'm already in diapers,

I think this was my first reaction.  If you’re in a diaper that will automatically be filled at some point, a little bit of humidity around the corner would be kind of neither here nor there in my mind and in any case, a wet diaper can wait for more “substantive” events before getting changed without becoming socially unattractive ?  I’m not sure I could be bothered managing it!

I suppose there might be less changes involved with FI-only I guess. 

[Moochie]

18 hours ago, Mindylou said:

Hello all, just an update on my retraining progress. It's taken me over two weeks but I think I'm retrained in daytime for the most part . I don't constantly worry about where the closest bathroom is but I do always know and make sure to go potty before I leave the house. I think my bladder is working again but I can't wait too long and drink much because that's a guarantee I will have an urge incontinence accident. Sometimes it feels full but when I go potty I don't think I empty completely and it feels weird.its still pretty sensitive.  Night time is still diaper time and I don't really think I will ever retrain for that. My Abenas and me are best friends now. 

MindyLou, congratulations on your daytime retraining. Now you can selectively wet or mess your diaper or panties, having choices is great. To decrease expenses, sounds like you can graduate to cloth training pants during the day.

[Xraycollie]

Can you elaborate a little more?  How did you lose the stent? What can be done to avoid this in the future? How did the ER retrieve it?

[Hannah YMS]

On 5/30/2022 at 1:22 AM, Eido said:

As ever, nail on the head, Oz ? Like, wetting is barely even an issue compared to the reason I'm diapered in the first place, just a little extra swelling and sag, so why bother? Not much point in prolonging the inevitable. Bull-headed pride and the corresponding shame it comes pre-packaged with provide some cause to hesitate, I suppose, but those are pretty silly reasons in the face of losing control regardless. There's eventually gotta be a moment where I stop pretending I can stop it.

And I think I'm kinda at that point now, or at least willing to give it another shot. These last few replies and this thread in general have really helped me clarify and mentally reorganize some stuff. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get back on track ?

I'm rooting for you!

1 hour ago, Xraycollie said:

Can you elaborate a little more?  How did you lose the stent? What can be done to avoid this in the future? How did the ER retrieve it?

The stent was a modified catheter. I put in the catheter, then cut the length down, plugged the balloon water, capped it with a screw cap and... make the retrieval line way too short. It migrated during the night into my bladder. Spent 10 hours at the ER the next day. The urologist went in with a cystoscope and popped he balloon and pulled it out. They put me under general anesthesia in case I needed surgery to remove the stent. Thankfully, no surgery, just a $16,000 hospital bill. Doh!

[hlcl]

@Mindylou Congratulations on retraining so quickly and so well! You have made great progress in a short period of time. 

 If you haven't already done so, you can wear pull ups or cloth training pants with plastic pants or a booster if you feel like you need extra protection.

 You might need to wear a daytime diaper for a while for  special occasions like going to a wedding or a fair  

[Kawaharu]

On 5/28/2022 at 9:30 AM, Mindylou said:

Hello all, just an update on my retraining progress. It's taken me over two weeks but I think I'm retrained in daytime for the most part . I don't constantly worry about where the closest bathroom is but I do always know and make sure to go potty before I leave the house. I think my bladder is working again but I can't wait too long and drink much because that's a guarantee I will have an urge incontinence accident. Sometimes it feels full but when I go potty I don't think I empty completely and it feels weird.its still pretty sensitive.  Night time is still diaper time and I don't really think I will ever retrain for that. My Abenas and me are best friends now. 

That's why I can never be able to be potty trained. I'm so use to being kept in diapers and so comfortable in them that to potty train me would be next to impossible. It's why many have tried to potty train me but I have failed so badly. It's why now I am diaper trained and I'll never be retrained to potty. Diapers will always keep me from being potty trained and I'm always gona be stuck in diapers.

[Little Belle]

On 5/13/2022 at 9:26 AM, Eido said:

This subject is a bit of a sore spot for me and I've been avoiding this thread as a result, but I do have relevant experience in this area, so I'll pony up and share what I know. @PaddedConnor mentioned it, but I've discussed this subject a decent bit with @Kaliborio in their own thread about retraining. Rather than clog this thread up with a simple copy+paste-job, I'll drop a link to my response in her thread here and do a (longer than necessary, I'm sure) summary below, followed by how things have gone since then.

Here's the gist: Untrained to the point of near-full UI and full or near-full FI. By the time I decided to retrain, my wetting default was to simply let go without any conscious acknowledgement, but the muscles down there still worked and I could flex them and hold my pee in if I held my concentration on doing so. I wet in my sleep anywhere from 1-3 nights per week on average. My messing default was simply to "do nothing" because my body took care of it no matter what. I no longer felt any response from my bowel's sphincter muscles when I tried flexing them and any attempt to hold it in was met with a messy disaster. Basically I didn't get to decide when I would poop. All I could do was be prepared for when it would happen.

I retrained for roughly 6 months, during which I regained nearly full control of my bladder, including no more wet nights, but nearly no control whatsoever with my bowels. For method I did kegels and pelvic floor exercises on the daily in progressively increasing amounts, avoided diapers as much as I could manage (not so easy when diapers = sex is a hard-coded mental truth for me ?) and would work to hold in my pee and poop as long as possible before going potty. Of those, I honestly think the kegels and the "holding it" training are what brought me to success. Actively putting effort into retraining and seeing measurable gains in my bladder's retention capabilities was a huge boon for continuing on with the process and keeping me motivated.

By the end of the 6 months I still had quite a bit of bladder urgency and some issues with unexpected dribbles and spurts, but could comfortably hold a full bladder for up to (and occasionally over!) an hour. Compared to the multiple hours I could hold it pre-untraining, this was a significant diminishing of control, but compared to the seconds of warning I'd receive while untrained, if I received any warning at all, it was a monumental gain that I'm still quite proud of.

My messing control...never really recovered at all. I could aggressively limit my diet and ensure that I was on a toilet for 15-30 minutes in the morning until my body decided to mess, but that's as close to regaining any control as I've gotten with my bowels. All the exercises, all the diet changes I tried, and pretty much just everything I attempted in general gave me a big fat 0 in return. I was discouraged, but felt like monitoring and working around my body's internal clock for messing at least allowed me to go diaper-free if I really needed to. And I frequently did without much issue, but the caveat to that is that I'm very much a homebody/hermit and rarely encountered situations where I'd be further than 50 feet or so away from an accessible toilet. Eventually a big messing accident in a very uncomfortable situation was my wake-up call to the mistaken belief that I could manage my FI without protection. Unsurprisingly, this discouraged me from retraining in general and I soon abandoned the endeavor altogether. I just went back to wearing diapers all the time and that was that for a long while.

As to how things have been going since then, the 8 months after that were spent in diapers. Not really untraining, but also not really caring about retraining either. My bladder control regressed some over that period, back to small accidents and the occasional unaware wetting, but for the most part I still felt the urge to go and had to manually release. That's something I'm very conscious of now, making a point of consciously giving the okay instead of letting my body take care of it. Again, I wasn't really trying to untrain anymore, despite being back in diapers, so being able to consciously wet myself or pee in a toilet when I wanted to became almost a point of pride. A very toddlerish point of pride that never fails to leave me feeling a bit funny (in a good way ?), but a point of pride nonetheless.

My bowel control, surprising nobody I confide in about this stuff, worsened. Where before I could pretty reliably feel my tummy turn over with that full/tight feeling and get to a toilet before my body released (as long as that toilet was immediately available/less than a few minutes away from me), now I didn't even get that signal until I was just about to mess. I could hold it as long as I was sitting down flat, but the second I stood up...yeah. Messing events also began to become spread out over the course of a morning/day. Rather than one mess to start the day off, I now have anywhere from 2-6 over the course of the first 8-10 hours after waking. This meant that the days of sitting on the potty in the mornings and going without a diaper for the rest were gone. It's either diapers for bed and half my waking hours, or run the high-stress, high-anxiety risk of ruining my clothes/bed/chair/floor/whatever with a messy accident.

Around March of this year I got back on a retraining kick and have been trying to regain some control, but have been met with equal results so far. Bladder control quickly returned and bowel control didn't change at all, which I feel is to be expected since 6 months proved to be insufficient previously. So I'm sticking it out, or I'm going to try to at least, to see if a longer-term stint will work. Mostly using the same methodology, with the exception of no longer avoiding diapers. It's just too risky to go without anymore, so until I see some solid evidence that I can manage without protection, it's 24/7 crinkles for this guy.

One semi-useful thing I've discovered over the last couple months is that I can regain some bowel control by what basically amounts to constipating myself lol. Low/no fiber diet, avoiding stimulating foods/drinks, etc. This doesn't bring back any of the muscular control that seems to have run away on me, but it does get me to the point where I don't need to worry much about having accidents and where eliminations become something I choose to do, rather than something that just happens (because the stool isn't loose enough for peristalsis alone to force out). The downside is that...well...it's constipation ? It can often come with uncomfortable and painful side-effects, not to mention risk of impaction. Plus, in the long run, it can actually worsen FI. In practice it's easily managed by using a laxative or suppository when necessary, but those come with their own failings. So is this a viable long-term solution? Absolutely not. Something to keep in mind for short-term planned excursions like going to see family over a weekend, however? Definitely useful and a comfort to have something like that in my incontinence-management arsenal.

And that's the retraining story up to now. As to why all this is a sore subject, it's because, as with everything in my untraining journey, I've flip-flopped on it repeatedly. While I'm fairly committed to staying the course right now, I wouldn't be surprised if I got fed up and just went back to not caring anymore by next week. Something I've realized over these last 5 or so years is that my feelings about and enthusiasm for untraining/retraining are closely tied to my MDD/GAD mood-swings. This ends up meaning that, while I can do everything in my power to combat and manage those disorders, my bladder and bowel continence will probably always be subject to the whims of my brain's chemical levels.

At least until the lack of bowel control and being constantly diapered saps away my remaining bladder control for good and I don't have to worry about it anymore, which I genuinely believe is inevitable. It probably won't happen this year. Maybe not even in five years. But I'd be very surprised if I end up having any remaining control ten years from now. That's probably not the best mindset for someone who's retraining to have, but it's pretty tough to look at my history and extrapolate any other likely outcome. But I'm at peace with that and if it happens, it happens. I suppose it leaves me room to be pleasantly surprised during one of these retraining attempts ?

Hi @Eidothanks for sharing your story. And what a story! One thing I'm really curious on is this - before you first ever started your untraining journey, were you fully continent in both bladder and bowel? It seems to me that untraining is probably a much quicker and less-reversable process if the level of incontinence right at the start is slightly poor anyway....? 

[justforfun]

I also answered in the other thread... I had untrained myself for bedwetting, and then when my life situation changed (got married, had a kid), I made a significant and conscious effort to re-train after about 12 years of bedwetting. Over the course of a year, during which my daughter graduated from diapers with no issues, I made every effort, talking to doctors (no, I didn't tell them the root cause...), trying alarms, medication, behavioral changes, and so on. Everything that one would do to try to help a bedwetting child, and then some.

Several times I thought I was successful. My bedwetting tends to be kind of bursty anyway, so a week of dry nights can look like success... until things re-start. It was frustrating because after a few dry nights I'd stop wearing a diaper, which would be fine for a few days... maybe a week or two... until I'd restart wetting, typically at a most inopportune time.

A wet bed in a hotel was kind of the final straw. At some point, we realized that I was pretty much going to be wearing a diaper anytime I "might" wet where I didn't want to risk it (hotels, airplanes, other travel, and so on), so the additional effort of just wearing any time (while sleeping) at home was low... and the medications, wake-up alarms, dehydrating me, and so on, weren't helping my physical or mental health.

So, after about a year, efforts tapered off. I was pretty much wearing a diaper anytime I might fall asleep anyway, just in case, so I just stopped trying so hard, stopped taking the medications, stopped waking up twice during the night to use the toilet, and so on. I remember feeling better... the lack of sleep and dehydration had been taking a large toll.

Several time since then I've made smaller efforts, but nothing as concerted or long-lasting. At this point I've pretty much come to expect that it's not reversible.

[Mindylou]

Another retraining update from me : 

I haven't even been on the DD site for so long it signed me out..  but I'm now out of diapers during night time too.. I really didn't think it was possible since I had been wearing for several years! But while staying overnight at my cousin's house and I didn't bring enough for every night that I stayed there, I had to go without and was successful both nights, so since I've been home, almost 2 weeks ago.. I haven't worn at night and have only had one night with accident. Getting up to go pee several times a night isn't fun, but at least I do wake up and go to the restroom first! 

I still have this deep desire to go back to 24/7 and maybe I will someday when my personal life gets back to normal. But until then I'll just keep it all bottled up inside. 

[joemama414]

9 hours ago, Mindylou said:

Another retraining update from me : 

I haven't even been on the DD site for so long it signed me out..  but I'm now out of diapers during night time too.. I really didn't think it was possible since I had been wearing for several years! But while staying overnight at my cousin's house and I didn't bring enough for every night that I stayed there, I had to go without and was successful both nights, so since I've been home, almost 2 weeks ago.. I haven't worn at night and have only had one night with accident. Getting up to go pee several times a night isn't fun, but at least I do wake up and go to the restroom first! 

I still have this deep desire to go back to 24/7 and maybe I will someday when my personal life gets back to normal. But until then I'll just keep it all bottled up inside. 

Congrats! Did you betwet before when you were 24/7? If so, how did you manage to re-train yourself?

[Mindylou]

On 9/1/2022 at 9:24 PM, joemama414 said:

Congrats! Did you betwet before when you were 24/7? If so, how did you manage to re-train yourself?

@joemama414The term "bed wetting" always throws me.. if you mean going to bed unprotected and wetting my pants and sheets, then no, I had no interest in that kind of mess to clean up! If you mean laying in bed and peeing in my diaper then yes I did. I found out by just doing it that I had not reached the level of incontinence that I thought I had, mainly... I couldn't reach as deep a sleep as before but I could sleep and wake up when my bladder told me it was full and get to the bathroom. I would have some weird dreams that not reaching full sleep produces... Now that I'm back in diapers those dreams have stopped! I lasted a couple of weeks without wearing st night before it got too much and now I'm back to 24/7. 

 

[Diapersarecool1]

4 years ago, I went 6 months full time in diapers. I got comfortable wetting, anywhere, all the time. At some point life got busy and stressful and I abandoned untraining. Today, 4 years later I can only hold my bladder for an hour and a half at a time, if I don't drink anything.  I have noticed also, any amount of caffeine and more than a couple cups of water will make my bladder constantly irritated  and even right after peeing I feel like I have to go really bad again. The result is that often I feel the need to pee, ignore it and go on with my day until it becomes completely unbearable at which point I will go use the bathroom. Prior to untraining, I could go hours without peeing. 

I am starting untraining again. I want to get rid of my pesky bladder control.