How do you make yourself bedrail dependent? ;-)

[Enthusi]

Hopefully the title of this topic got your attention!  ?

Actually, I have no desire to learn to fall out of bed while sleeping.  But that’s the point!    

I’m going to assume no one reading this actually enjoys falling out of bed.  Most, if not all of us, learned at very young age how to stay in bed when we sleep.  I trust that my body will not roll off the bed when I sleep and I hardly ever think about it.  

By now it should be clear what I’m getting at. Just substitute “fall out of bed” with achieve incontinence, and “bedrails” with diapers. 
…

I like this mental activity because it puts things in perspective. It takes a special kind of person to actually want to achieve incontinence and have the discipline to pull it off.  

I also like how this activity teaches you to see unpotty training as an outsider.  This is especially pertinent for those of us who have been in diapers for years and take incontinence for granted.  It helps me appreciate how difficult it is for people who are starting the process of unpotty training, and the need for patience and discipline to achieve incontinence. 

I’ll end with a story… this morning I tried to “test” myself to see if I could accidentally fall out of bed.  I tried rolling closer and closer to the edge of my bed.  Every time I got close to the edge I got nervous and I automatically inched back to the middle of the bed.  I really didn’t want to fall.  I eventually did awkwardly fall out of bed but I landed on my feet.  I finally concluded that if I ever get to the point in my life where I’m not sure if I will fall, I’ll insist on having  bedrails on just to be safe, regardless of whether or not I truly needed them.   And since then, my desire to test how incontinent I am is gone. 
 

(Update) I edited this post based on feedback I got.  I meant it to be positive and supportive for those of us who have an inexplicable burning desire to be incontinent, and are frustrated by the psychological and physical challenges that come with seeking incontinence.   

 

 

[DiapergirlWB]

Why do you come in here?  We are not hurting you.  It takes a huge amount of dedication and work to achieve Incontinence.  You are going to learn 'the other side' along the way.  If it was a one way easy quick thing then your condescending opinion might have some validity.   If you go through a year or more living and using diapers ALL the time then decide that Oh no I made a mistake then you were not paying attention.  Most of us know that the reality is we will never get there.  It is a fun fantasy that helps us get through our days a little happier.  We really don't need a bitter wet blanket to try and drown out happiness.  Good Day Sir.

 

[Enthusi]

 

44 minutes ago, DiapergirlWB said:

Why do you come in here?  We are not hurting you.  It takes a huge amount of dedication and work to achieve Incontinence.  You are going to learn 'the other side' along the way.  If it was a one way easy quick thing then your condescending opinion might have some validity.   If you go through a year or more living and using diapers ALL the time then decide that Oh no I made a mistake then you were not paying attention.  Most of us know that the reality is we will never get there.  It is a fun fantasy that helps us get through our days a little happier.  We really don't need a bitter wet blanket to try and drown out happiness.  Good Day Sir.

 

Woah woah woah.I think there may have been a misunderstanding. ?

I’m extremely passionate about achieving incontinence and I LOVE helping my fellow abdls who express interest in unpotty  training.   I’ve been unpotty training for 4 years and am always happy to share tips and lessons learned. 

My likening unpotty training to wanting to learn how to fall out of bed was meant to illustrate the challenges of achieving incontinence, and to see it through the lens of a neutral bystander.  There are so many psychological barriers to overcome. It takes real work and dedication to achieve incontinence. 

In fact I specifically mentioned above that I have more appreciation for the difficulty people face when starting out.    

I was also trying to point out that you don’t need to test how incontinent you are. Just like how if you think you may need a bedrail then you need a bedrail…If you think you need diapers, then you need diapers. 
  
Please… I BEG you.  Reread my post.  If you still find it offensive I will gladly ask for it to be removed.     ❤️

[DiapergirlWB]

"Think about it… why would anyone in their right mind want to learn to fall out of bed so often that they have to rely on bedrails to keep them in bed?  That sounds like a lose-lose scenario.  It’s jarring when it happens, and it would be annoying to be required to have bedrails with you every time you travel (or use a floor mat I suppose, or sleep on the floor.)" then comparing it to incontinence and diapers made it seem very derogatory to me.  There are a lot of people that come on here to berate and belittle us I may have just been set off by your perceived tone.  Sorry

[Enthusi]

7 minutes ago, DiapergirlWB said:

"Think about it… why would anyone in their right mind want to learn to fall out of bed so often that they have to rely on bedrails to keep them in bed?  That sounds like a lose-lose scenario.  It’s jarring when it happens, and it would be annoying to be required to have bedrails with you every time you travel (or use a floor mat I suppose, or sleep on the floor.)" then comparing it to incontinence and diapers made it seem very derogatory to me.  There are a lot of people that come on here to berate and belittle us I may have just been set off by your perceived tone.  Sorry

Okay yeah I can see your point.  I was trying to be tongue and cheek. I will go ahead and edit it a bit. 

[~Brian~]

@Enthusi@DiapergirlWB

I would agree.  As a guy who is disabled, and spent a GREAT deal of time between 6-10 in rehab and in hospitals, I guess i got used to two things:  One was, i was there for either thereapy (PT/OT) or surgery, which in my days, would land me in rehab at Vermont Achievement Center (vacvt.org) which at the time had a residential unit for the disabled, as they had a different service model in the 70's through the mid '90's.

What they would do is try to help kids like me to get stronger, and help us with issues relating to our disabilities.  in the late 90's or so, they changed the model they used, and that model said that people like us deserved to be in the community and get the support of services closer to home, rather then to bring us together at one facility and serve us there.  VAC helped me in MANY ways, but there ARE things that are still as fresh as the first day I was taken there for rehab.

One thing was, I was severely restricted as to what I could do for myself.  It seemed that within a few weeks to a month of being there, (I walked IN with my walker) I was in a wheelchair, and when i had accidents, well, out came the people who would get mad at us for calling for help, and then when I tried to get them to take me to the bathroom and help me use it, they would get irritated, and leave us in bed, and we all know what happens if they did that: 

Either a WET bed or a MESS

Then, out came the diapers, and I was using them for months on end, because I could not do anything without their help!  and they were slow to help us when needed, so diapers were the way i had to deal with that.

And to make sure we stayed where they wanted us, they had 2 ways to do this:  One was to raise the RAILS on BOTH sides, and tell us to ring the bell:  When we did that, they would use the intercom system - Then we would tell them what we needed, and most times, it took them WAY too LONG to respond, so we wet ourselves or messed the bed.  The second way that they could keep us where they wanted us was to roll in a portable pediatric CRIB, and put us in there, and then we could NOT get out, so they would the only ones who could release the latches:  They would even have people who had severe disabilities in a crib like this, and they would be rolled all over the pediatric unit, enabling a child like this to interact with his/her peers at cribside. 

and @Enthusilet me tell ya man:  If you wanted to know how it was to be in a modified JAIL, this was IT dude:  They decided when you got to use the bathroom, take a bath/shower, eat, and what to eat, and if you didn't like what they had on the menu, I was YELLED at, strapped in, and FORCE FED anything I didn't want to eat!  It took everything I had to fight what was going on, as we were told we "NEED TO/HAVE TO DO ______" and when given the choice to leave under my own power, I was seized at the handles, led down the hall, and pushed so HARD I almost wiped out a table and chairs near my room!

Yes:  in Rehab, DIAPERS were used to deal with accidents, and I used them for a while myself.  I wanted to use the bathroom myself, and started using the "headboard to footboard slide", so that I could get in and out of bed without hitting the bell:  because I could NOT wait a 20-30 minute stretch, or I'd be wet and uncomfortable all night.

I almost lost continence all together, because they didn't help me as much as they should, so I basically said "If I have to go home in a diaper, mom will be MAD, and she'll have to "repotty train me" and she'll wonder why.  I walked in here on my own power, and I am GOING OUTTA here in the same condition, so someone better be Helping me do that, cause I am NOT gonna pee or mess myself and NOT have a good reason."

So, after a while, was able to do more for myself, as long as I was able to show them, at 7 that I could do it safely.  After 2 stints there, 14 weeks that is, I was released, and returned home for GOOD:  I missed 1 year of school, had to repeat it, and had to ALMOST have to repeat Grade 3, because that is the 2nd time (6 weeks) I was in long-term rehab:  They had me there soon after starting 3rd grade, and I was missing my friends, and no one knew how to get me to do what the teacher wanted, so I made a PLEA that I wanted my Home Teacher (He and I were 70 miles away)  there: He Came to ME, and I explained what was going on, and that I missed everyone, and he left me with ONE thing I asked for:  He let me use "The Little Professor" This was a calculator that I used in math class and it taught me my math operations, adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing, and played games. 

He bought 2:  Left me with one, and had one in his desk:  I owe my 3rd and 4th grade teachers a lot, because this messed me up BADLY and it took a while to get back to "normal" after being away for so long.  I realize that most people would not be affected as much as I was, but I was 70 miles from home, and didn't have any real visits, and so the only way I got to see anyone was when Dad marked my calendar with days they would visit.

The main thing is:  Because of what I dealt with in rehab stints, I was required to stay in bed, and my rails were UP all the time when I was in it  - My bed was HIGH so they were needed, but they still give me the feeling of being retrained against my will sometimes.  I still have good memories from being there, but wished that people would have understood that I was ABLE bodied when admitted, and it only took weeks to make me reliant on someone to do everything for them, just like my late brother, who resided at Brandon VT Training School, which was like Willowbrook in Ny......Gives me the shivers, and I still sometimes see flashbacks of stupid things that make me jumpy

Brian

 

[Enthusi]

@~Brian~ Oh my.  Wow.  It’s crazy to even imagine.  Yeah diapers and incontinence are great fun when you want them but I can’t  imagine how it would be to be stuck in diapers if I didn’t want it. 

[~Brian~]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:13 PM, Enthusi said:

@~Brian~ Oh my.  Wow.  It’s crazy to even imagine.  Yeah diapers and incontinence are great fun when you want them but I can’t  imagine how it would be to be stuck in diapers if I didn’t want it. 

@Enthusi@DiapergirlWB

That is why I told you my story:  They would do some really strange things to us to make us do whatever they wanted us to do:  They found out what I was deathly afraid of (at the time, I was afraid of the idea of getting burned or hurt in a FIRE, and I hated the fire alarm), so they would use that, and say that if I didn't do what they asked, they would roll my bed outta my room into the hall, and put it RIGHT under the nearest fire alarm bell/sounder, and threaten to set it OFF if I didn't do what they wanted.  My DAD was not HAPPY and wondered what the hell was going on - Long story short, Dad straightened them out FAST, and I no longer got mistreated again after I told him what was going on, and what I asked them:  Telling him to get me outta "jail" because they were just feeding me stuff I couldn't stand hehehe:  I WON that one, and I asked to be given more freedom:  I learned how to take a shower there too, as they had FULL roll in showers, and I had a radio at night, and could listen to it most nights

Yeah, Diapers are fun, and some people LOVE them like I do, but in the situation I was in, they used diapers because they were either concerned that we would fall out of bed, or because we were bothering them and they figured that a diaper would be easier, and it is the "lazy way" to deal with a guy who could handle using the bathroom.  I just kept hoping mom and dad would not see that:  I think they did once or twice, but they wondered what the heck was going on, and it changed when mom and dad told them that they were surprised

Bed Rails and Diapers have their uses and they can be used as weapons:  If done in LOVING ways, without getting mad and punishing those of us that used them for what they were supposed to be used for, they can be used in a fair way.  I hated being restrained or told that I HAD to do something that I had a choice to do or not to do, and they would threaten us all the time with retaliation, and that for me, that did NOT mean I was put into a crib, but I was force fed food that i didn't like, and for the longest time, I could not EAT eggs, because they were made too runny

Sorry guys, but my response is based on experiences with diapers, restraints and rails:  I just have some bad memories that sometimes, even now cause me to shiver, as the place my brother lived at was WORSE than where I was

Brian

[DiapergirlWB]

Like i said the vehemence of my response was due to partly a misunderstanding and because over the years here i have seen MANY people who come here for the sole purpose of harassing and mocking and belittle this subset of the DL community and i no longer tolerate it at all and am not nice to them.

 

[rusty pins]

I sympathize with some of what Brian said.  The first thing they do when someone goes into a nursing home or assisted living whether they are able to walk to the bathroom or not is put them in diapers.  Often a wheelchair as well.  Often those places are under staffed and they do it just in case.  Then the person relies on using diapers instead of trotting off to the bathroom.  I'm sure part of this is liability, they don't want a lawsuit if a person should fall going to the bathroom, but would it be better to help them to the bathroom or change their diapers all the time?  The thing is, when a person has to go, someone might not be available to help them right then and there.  You can always let the person sit in their wet or messy diaper until you find time to go change them.  I hope never to be in a nursing home!  My mom was in one for about 2 months and she would cry and tell us, "You don't know what they do to me when you aren't here"!  I saw what it did to my uncle who went right down hill the moment he went in one.  I also know of one Hospice nurse who said one of her patients in a nursing home was a survivor of a Nazi concentration camp as a child and they tortured her by making her stand under pouring water.  At the nursing home she was in they forced her under a shower that totally freaked the woman out, even knowing her background.  Like Brian said, they have ways of trying to make you do what they want by focusing on your fears.   

[~Brian~]

@rusty pins

One thing they tried to do was to make the rehab center sound like Club Med: they use the pool as the incentive for me to want to jump and go down there, telling me of all the wonderful things that were there. At six years old of Course, They could say anything and it would make me excited especially since I would be able to swim while I was down there and I had literally therapy every day for several hours a day.

of course, fantasy is different than reality, and most of what I was told sounded like a fantasy. The reality indeed was that we did have what they told us was there. The only thing is we had to do exactly what they said in order to partake in what they told us what is available. When you have a disability, your life basically is a whole bunch of going in and out of hospitals doctors offices rehab centers and other places that try to help you do the best you can to be able to live and active life.  There were good places that I went while they’re in there were good things that happened while there but many of the trauma that I experienced were caused because of the fact that I was in a place that I consider very similar to the one my brother was in the only difference is mine was more modern and his was pre-50s or 60s and some of the things they used to be able to do what they could do just because they had the power and not because it was illegal.

There were good places that I went while there and they were good things that happened while there but many of the traumas that I experienced were caused because of the fact that I was in a place that I consider very similar to the one my brother was in the only difference is mine was more modern and his was pre-50s or 60s and some of the things they used to be able to do what they could do just because they had the power and not because it was legal.

now that’s a lot of things have changed from the 1970s era, many of the horrors I have told you to not happen anymore very often because of awesome oversight and the ability to hold someone accountable at this point the most important thing is to remember that not everything is as someone says it is.  People are held to a higher standard and also how old accountable for what they do and say and believe and think. No longer do children have to follow exactly what they are told with the fear of being punished in inhumane and ridiculous ways. A place where you are supposed to get medical treatment or mental treatment or whatever type of treatment should not be the type of place that will drive you insane or think that you are going crazy. A children’s facility is supposed to be warm inviting and caring and compassionate and not be like a drill sergeant on Paris Island. Some kids do not understand why they are there and all they care about is the fact that they lose their family or they think their family is gone. I was well grounded knowing that I would not have to stay there forever and that my family would see me and I would see my family again. I knew from the start that the reason I was there was because I needed intensive therapy and this place could provide such therapy.  Rusty is exactly right when he says that most times when you were in a facility at this type they do not want you out of bed they do not want you moving around and they do not want you using the bathroom facilities by yourself. I guess that is part of what is to be expected however as I said in a few other posts some of this could be considered lazy because they don’t want to take the time to help you where I was about 90% of the people that work there will take the time to take you because they knew that if you had to use the bathroom it would be easier to take you into the bathroom and change your diaper in some cases.

as I said before fantasy is one thing: making it sound like Club Med is one thing: making it sound fun is another: but in reality we all know that it depends on the type of people in the facility itself. Good facilities have a good people, a good reputation, compassion, and the ability to determine what is right and what is wrong and the ability to put a stop to anything that is inappropriate.  When I was a kid that was not as many ways to be safe as far as the law the law basically gave the adults all the power that they needed to make us do whatever they wanted us to. The Americans with disabilities act of 1990 as well as public law 94 made it possible for people like us to be able to get educational services and support services without having to be taken from our home state or home districts to be able to provide that service in the 90s this was further cemented because of the closing of places like Branding training school Willowbrook and other facilities that were used to house the handicapped/disabled. Nowadays, these people live as normal life as they possibly can in loving homes with their families. The best thing about the new ways the law was changed was that the children and young adults had more say. I have always been a proponent of being respectful to those who treat me with respect. When I was in this facility those who treated me with respect that I wanted to be treated with were treated with that same respect those that acted really tough or tried to force something down my throat were treated with disrespect and distain simply because they did not understand the gravity of the situation that I was dealing with. There are times that I understand what having nightmares and bad dreams are caused from this is one of those experiences that will forever be in my head. It is taken me years to be able to deal with this and compartmentalize it.

they say you should forgive and I do: however I will never forget. This part of my life was one of the times where the foundation was being built while here I built some of that foundation while they knocked out a good portion of that foundation however I believe I am stronger because I overcame what I believed to be a challenge. I understand that some of these places are not exactly what we think they should be, and I do understand that some of these people have tough jobs to do. However there is no reason to put people were traumatized like I was through some of the things that I had to deal with.  
 

in the end I am a lot stronger of a person because of these types of experiences. I would not want to wish some of the bad things that happened to me on to anyone else some of this was traumatizing. It’ll all depend on what experiences you deal with while you were at one of the centers. I have a couple friends that went to the center as well and my experiences are totally different from theirs however I cannot forget some of the bad things that happen.Facilities like this have their place, and I am glad that I am high functioning enough so that I do not have to go to such a facility. Nursing homes have another function and is Rusty said, people can have their own demons to deal with and problems to face this is why it is important to have oversight and people to report things too. Most of the people that are in these types of facilities are in there because they are advancing age and unable to live at home. I am one of the fortunate ones that I believe I will be able to live here until I am well into my 70s or 80s. It is my hope that they continue to hold these facilities accountable for their actions, because if somebody doesn’t do that, something really really tragic can happen to someone’s loved ones. When a person is elderly, they should not have to worry about where their next meal comes from where they’re going to live or whether someone is going to take care of their needs. There also needs to be oversight to make sure that people that are elderly or disabled are not taken advantage of or neglected that is one of my buttons.

I am very passionate about the subject as many probably can see. When I was six years old I was expecting to be able to play and have fun like a normal six-year-old or seven-year-old. Most of my life was spent in rehab therapy hospitals or in school trying to catch myself up from these long stint of being away from my friends and my school. This means that I was not able to enjoy it as much fun as some of my colleagues who did not have a disability.

This means then I have always tried to be an advocate for myself and others that are in my position. To do this I always try to instill that the control should always remain with them or someone who helps them. If there is something wrong or something needs to be changed, then someone needs to be able to do that or be able to tell someone. Stories like mine are probably not uncommon in facilities, And most facilities are very good but there are times when things fall through the cracks

I am very lucky that I had the family and loving support of others while dealing with these types of issues during my childhood. I’m also very lucky that I was able to deal with these traumas in my life. I got the help that I needed and they help me to be a better person, but at what cost? I am considered to be a tough guy I guess but in reality this is one of the hardest challenges that I’ve ever had to face in my life. But this does not mean that I did not learn valuable lessons or be able to take stock in the fact that they were good people that help me even though some of them might have done bad things. I do not hold any grudges: However as I said people need to be held accountable and I am glad the laws now while for that to happen easier.

Brian

[BlakeJordan]

Epilepsy will do it, but I would not wish that on anyone. Unlike @~Brian~ I feel safer with rails due to my drug resistant epilepsy. I don’t have them at home, but often wish I did due to breakthrough seizures which often come during sleep. To be honest, I’ve not actually fallen out of bed due to a seizure, but have come close and have broken my arm, hit my head, and more during seizures. I suspect that I fall somewhere on the autism spectrum, and like many find things like weighted blankets, smaller protected spaces, compression garments, low sensory input environments etc. 

In my experience diapers fill a similar role of “safety”. Like Brian, my preferences for bed rails come out of the result of trauma. And like Brian I feel lucky I like diapers as my biology, from birth dictated that I would become at least partially reliant on them for the rest of my life, even had I never pursued incontinence. 
 

[Hannah YMS]

19 hours ago, BlakeJordan said:

pilepsy will do it, but I would not wish that on anyone.

I second that. My wife has epilepsy and I have bipolar. My verdict? I'd rather have bipolar than epilepsy, as shitty as it is. 

[diaperguy85]

i've told my g/f a few times to get one! but everytime it's a solid "no!" from her! but it's not for her tossing and turning or whatever, it's from the dog! ....and me lol

last year we got a pooch, he's a little 20 lovable mutt, but he insists on snuggling up as close as canine-ily possible to her and pushes her so she's basically half on and half off the bed, clinging on to the sheets for dear life and not getting much sleep in the process. she also insists he sleeps in the bed "because he's soooo cute!!!" (and he is lol). if she just got a good, solid bed rail with a few pillows or thick blankets pushed up against it, she'd be snoozing pretty on the bed every night. i'm basically a log and stay where i fall asleep, with minimal movement most nights. he might push off of me and towards her, but i don't move lol

[DiaperboyEddie12]

1 hour ago, diaperguy85 said:

 i'm basically a log and stay where i fall asleep, with minimal movement most nights. he might push off of me and towards her, but i don't move lol

Oh how I wish I can sleep like a log!  I toss and turn all night long.

[~Brian~]

On 8/15/2021 at 10:36 PM, BlakeJordan said:

Unlike @~Brian~ I feel safer with rails due to my drug resistant epilepsy. I don’t have them at home, but often wish I did due to breakthrough seizures which often come during sleep. To be honest, I’ve not actually fallen out of bed due to a seizure, but have come close and have broken my arm, hit my head, and more during seizures. I suspect that I fall somewhere on the autism spectrum, and like many find things like weighted blankets, smaller protected spaces, compression garments, low sensory input environments etc. 

@BlakeJordan

I have no problem with the rails per se, but when I was in rehab, they always put those things up, and then they would get mad when you had an accident, or with the fact that you tried to get OUT of bed without their help.  This place was scary as hell for me, until my Dad told them to start treating me better, and stop trying to FORCE me to eat something I didn't LIKE or want to eat, and they would do strange things like tell me to do something, and if i didn't do it, they found I was afraid of Fire Alarms, and put my BED in the HALL UNDER the damn thing, and THREATENED me with setting it off, if I even said a WORD:  That's NOT right, and I fought hard for the RIGHT to being treated well, and I WON!

Now that they have newer hospital beds that have "3 quarter rails," you can be IN bed without being totally trapped by them.  I also didn't like the bed I had, because the thing was HIGH, and I was afraid I would fall out of it during the times I used it - I wanted to be safe too, but that rehab center was like Valhalla - or a place that reminds me of the Mars Base in the DOOM games

I used to fall outta bed sometimes:  I've even done so headfirst, and when I did, I was so bad, I couldn't get back to bed, so I had to call for mom, and have her help me get back to bed:  i even put things on the left side of my bed so I would not have the ability to get caught between the walls:  I've broken 3 radios and 2 clocks because of having a fall at night too, which sucks

Good Luck

Brian