A sensitive question

[Brudda Voodu]

 

So I often wonder if the large body of trans males to female in this kink is something different than gender dysphoria. I mean you can't go to ANY abdl site or server without there being a large body of trans people. The connection is undeniable.  I consider my own experience, where as  I enjoy wearing panties or girly things over diapers and being  humiliated by my wife in that manner from time to time, but sissy clothes don't make anyone less of a male.  It might be worthwhile to note that I am and have always been a male.

My question is this, does anyone else think there is a parallel between trans people and abdl?  Since there is a lot of evidence to show the correlation.  I often wonder if some people are just a little further into the psychology of humiliation, and that is why they enjoy living as a female, rather than traditional dysphoria.  

I recognize that this might be a sensitive topic to some.  I don't mean any offence if sensitivities are set off.  I'm just fascinated with psychology because it helps me understand myself and others better.  I often feel like an alien observing human beings and have difficulty relating to them.

[CutieButtCrusader]

Hey, Brudda.

It's a legitimate question, even if it can be uncomfortable. Though as a trans woman I'm not female because I enjoy humiliation, it's because I'm a girl.

Some of us might internalise the idea of a humiliation kink because there is so much stuff out there about being 'forced' to be a girl, and subconsciously for folks like myself who were denied their girlhood it's a means to an end. Not only in this fantasy to you get forced into being a girl, but you don't have to take ownership for it. You don't have to risk the kind of real world violence that happens when you say you LIKE being a girl.

From that perspective I don't see it hard linking A to B so to speak... (lol, pun not intended.)

[Elfy]

Wanting to be humiliated has nothing to do with someone being transgender.

Fixing your gender is a lot of work and takes it's tolls physically, mentally and emotionally. That isn't to mention the time and money cost which is huge. No one is going to go through that because they have a kink for humiliation.

[mahleedl]

You're not the only one to notice a correlation.

[CutieButtCrusader]

1 hour ago, mahleedl said:

You're not the only one to notice a correlation.

There's a correlation, sure, but I wouldn't say causation. While it may be true that you can't throw a shoe in a room of trans women without hitting an AB, being a woman isn't an act of humiliation; it's about being a woman. Humiliation is poured on us, and some of us internalize it, but if someone thinks that's humiliating in and of itself then they might have some things to work out.

[Brudda Voodu]

13 hours ago, Elfy said:

Wanting to be humiliated has nothing to do with someone being transgender.

Fixing your gender is a lot of work and takes it's tolls physically, mentally and emotionally. That isn't to mention the time and money cost which is huge. No one is going to go through that because they have a kink for humiliation.

I could say the exact same thing about those of us who choose to wear diapers 24/7, and yet there are many of us who do. 

I am not inferring anything about trans people or how they got that way, its not my business.  I'm just interested in why this kink in particular has so many more than say, a foot fetish or auto erotic asphyxiation, or many of the other ones.  And in particular what parts of "abdl" captivate them to partake in it, and why?  I suppose I am also wondering if the clothing and the humiliation has some people living as trans but they do not actually have the brain of the opposite gender, or the appropriate psychology.  I know that sounds far fetched, but people never cease to surprise me.

[CutieButtCrusader]

1 hour ago, Brudda Voodu said:

I could say the exact same thing about those of us who choose to wear diapers 24/7, and yet there are many of us who do. 

I am not inferring anything about trans people or how they got that way, its not my business.  I'm just interested in why this kink in particular has so many more than say, a foot fetish or auto erotic asphyxiation, or many of the other ones.  And in particular what parts of "abdl" captivate them to partake in it, and why?  I suppose I am also wondering if the clothing and the humiliation has some people living as trans but they do not actually have the brain of the opposite gender, or the appropriate psychology.  I know that sounds far fetched, but people never cease to surprise me.

I guess it depends where you go. I've seen a lot of trans folk in other fetish scenes ranging from impact play to PVC to hooks and suspension in equal number.

The funny thing is that as far as trans folks go, in my experience, you have the sexual ones who take it to a kinky extreme, and those who are vanilla and asexual with little room in between. (Should note this is particularly among trans lesbians. Straight trans women mostly tend toward the vanilla. No idea what the guys are doing, though.)

[mahleedl]

13 hours ago, CutieButtCrusader said:

There's a correlation, sure, but I wouldn't say causation. While it may be true that you can't throw a shoe in a room of trans women without hitting an AB, being a woman isn't an act of humiliation; it's about being a woman. Humiliation is poured on us, and some of us internalize it, but if someone thinks that's humiliating in and of itself then they might have some things to work out.

Oh, I completely agree!  One should *never* confuse correlation with causation!  A lot of people assume correlation is the same as (or at least implies) causation, but it doesn't at all.  They're distinct concepts. 

[DLTGirl]

I have noticed a seemingly large number too. It maybe that people comfortable enough to have an ABDL profile are also comfortable enough to reveal that they are trans? On other sites there can be hostility towards trans members but I can't say I've ever seen it on ABDL sites. This is a good thing of course.

It's rare to find people like me though, a DL crossdresser who is not and does not want to change gender, I just love dressing and looking feminine with a nice thick nappy under my dress or skirt. I also don't like the frilly stuff or the idea of being a humiliated sissy.

[CutieButtCrusader]

16 minutes ago, DLTGirl said:

I also don't like the frilly stuff or the idea of being a humiliated sissy.

I get that. While I never want to yuck anybody's yum, I sometimes feel uncomfortable with how often being feminine is treated as humiliation. For me, being a girl/girly is powerful, comfortable, and beautiful.

[Brudda Voodu]

2 hours ago, CutieButtCrusader said:

I get that. While I never want to yuck anybody's yum, I sometimes feel uncomfortable with how often being feminine is treated as humiliation. For me, being a girl/girly is powerful, comfortable, and beautiful.

From a males perspective, being emasculated is incredibly humiliating, to be dressed up in feminine clothing and treated as such takes away a great deal of pride and identity.  I imagine in your case it would feel humiliating to be associated as a male, since you feel like a female (I am assuming here, please correct me if I am wrong).  For those that do not enjoy humiliation, being dressed as something you know you are not, and that others will also recognize that you are not, is a terrible experience.  To those that enjoy humiliation, it is an arousing and sensual experience, while still remaining humiliating.

I have spoken to many people who were actually "petticoated" as discipline during their youth, and they now have a fetish for humiliation and forced feminization.  Many of these folks also incorporate diapers into their humiliation fantasy.  As a reference, I would suggest you look into https://petticoated.com/forum/ .  There are many similarities between here and there, and  In many cases, (here and there) torment becomes our fantasy, and our compulsion.  I know this is not the case in everyone, but I know first hand that abuse is what started my compulsion to be diapered and babied and humiliated.

By the way, thank you very much for your honesty and your candid response.  I appreciate your contribution to this discussion and my intrigue greatly

[Rachael-Little]

I know in my case I think my AB side while not as strong as it use to be the correlation I see with my T side is it’s as if I can be a baby girl and it’s like how I wanted to grow up.

Also the humiliation thing is yes it’s like if someone forces me into diapers and dresses then I’m not controlling something that I should not enjoy but secretly do 

[darkdream]

7 hours ago, DLTGirl said:

I have noticed a seemingly large number too. It maybe that people comfortable enough to have an ABDL profile are also comfortable enough to reveal that they are trans? On other sites there can be hostility towards trans members but I can't say I've ever seen it on ABDL sites. This is a good thing of course.

It's rare to find people like me though, a DL crossdresser who is not and does not want to change gender, I just love dressing and looking feminine with a nice thick nappy under my dress or skirt. I also don't like the frilly stuff or the idea of being a humiliated sissy.

I'm pansexual and very accepting, hugs...

Also like to crossdress sometimes too.

 

[DLTGirl]

You are indeed a rarity, love to know more if you want to message me. xx

[Rachael-Little]

33 minutes ago, DLTGirl said:

You are indeed a rarity, love to know more if you want to message me. xx

Are you asking me? 

[darkdream]

1 hour ago, DLTGirl said:

You are indeed a rarity, love to know more if you want to message me. xx

Yup will do! Thanks

[PP Rebel]

Why yes..there was a school of psychotherapy  in the UK fashionable for a while in the late 1960's & early 1970's  ..Which was based on studies of people who had been labelled schizophrenics ..& claimed  people who grow up with impossible contradictions..  like being told you're a boy & to act that out when you feel like a girl ..have tendency to want to regress to a time when they felt more complete to try & re-grow as a more integrated person getting in touch with aspects of themselves which had been denied & shut off.
One of the influential people involved was Scottish born Psychiatrist RD Laing who wrote a number books popular in University's at the time notably 'The divided Self' &  'Madness Sanity & the family' & was influenced  by Existential Philosophy, The Interpersonal School of Psychology pioneered in the US by Harry Stack Sullivan in the 1940's & ideas taken from Eastern Mysticism via the Beatnik & Hippie movements about re-birth.
There's also a book 'Two Accounts of a Journey through madness ' written jointly by Mary C Barnes a patient who went through the 'pioneering treatment' & Joseph Berke who was one of her carers.

 

 

[willnotwill]

The transgender community was dealt a great amount of disservice by these "psychiatrists" who chose to fit gender behavior to their theories, often with absolutely disasterous results for the patients involved.    There's hardly a shred of scientific method here, and pretty much the idea that you can mold sexuality has been now discredited.

Some of the more dramatic sexual activities, be they fetishes, or homosexuality, or MtF crossdressing seems to go together often out of a feeling of kindred spirits if not overtly lumped together by others.    

[PP Rebel]

7 hours ago, willnotwill said:

The transgender community was dealt a great amount of disservice by these "psychiatrists" who chose to fit gender behavior to their theories, often with absolutely disasterous results for the patients involved.    There's hardly a shred of scientific method here, and pretty much the idea that you can mold sexuality has been now discredited.

Some of the more dramatic sexual activities, be they fetishes, or homosexuality, or MtF crossdressing seems to go together often out of a feeling of kindred spirits if not overtly lumped together by others.    

Actually the ideas I'm referring to here have often been called 'anti-psychiatry' because ,amongst other things, they were opposed to attempts to label people as suffering from various categories of mental illness to be cured which was frequently the case at the time with homesexuality, gender identity issues & various fetishes.. 
The  thread was started by Brudda Voodu who asked' does anyone else think there is a parallel between trans people and abdl' 
I'm not a trans person but I do have a fetish around people having toilet accidents, messing myself & more recently diapers. 
Before the advent of the internet it was difficult to identify & talk to people with similar fetishes in the UK so I took it upon myself to read books about psychology & psychotherapy to see if I could find out what was wrong with me & what might be done about it.This was one of the more convincing theories which I came across ..although i don't know if its correct & people are free to reject it if they choose to..
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/sep/02/rd-laing-mental-health-sanity

 

[Brudda Voodu]

4 hours ago, PP Rebel said:

Actually the ideas I'm referring to here have often been called 'anti-psychiatry' because ,amongst other things, they were opposed to attempts to label people as suffering from various categories of mental illness to be cured which was frequently the case at the time with homesexuality, gender identity issues & various fetishes.. 
The  thread was started by Brudda Voodu who asked' does anyone else think there is a parallel between trans people and abdl' 
I'm not a trans person but I do have a fetish around people having toilet accidents, messing myself & more recently diapers. 
Before the advent of the internet it was difficult to identify & talk to people with similar fetishes in the UK so I took it upon myself to read books about pschlogy & psychotherapy to see if I could find out what was wrong with me & what might be done about it.This was one of the more convincing theories which I came across ..although i don't know if its correct & people are free to reject it if they choose to..
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/sep/02/rd-laing-mental-health-sanity

 

Thank you for this information. I had never heard of these studies before or those Dr's. 

[PP Rebel]

3 hours ago, Brudda Voodu said:

Thank you for this information. I had never heard of these studies before or those Dr's. 

You also mentioned 'psychology of humiliation' I've never quite understood this but there's a  'sissy' diaper wearers ,who lives relatively close to me, & I tried to strike up a friendship with was really big on the idea that than he wanted to be humiliated & be made to feel pathetic & worthless ,.This isn't my thing at all but seems to be quite common..
One of the people I came across in the psychoanalytical type field & had ideas about this which impressed me at the time. which you might want to take a look at was ,was Erich Fromm. Although Fromm wrote quite a long time ago now & it seems there are more modern theories built around the concept of co-dependency.
As with RD Laing & co I don't know if the theories are correct or not. I think if people decide to check them out its up to the individual to decide if they feel it makes sense & is of any value to them. 
https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=61813.0

 

[Firefly 35]

I think the abundence of LGBT people in the ABDL community is due to how open we all are to such things.  If an adult likes wearing diapers and/or ageplay, who are they to judge someone else's gender?

[deacon]

I do not know where to put this, please help.  Can we talk of enemas, or enema equipment?

[vvp39]

I think you may want to check Zity.

https://en.zity.biz/

[willnotwill]

The Zity link goes nowhere.

If you want to discuss enemas, you should create a new thread in one of the OTHER FETISHES categories.    It doesn't belong in this thread.