when did Grammar and the English Language die?

[WakkoWannaBe]

When I'm on the internet, I'm pretty lean. If the grammar doesn't interfere with my comprehension of the message, then I usually don't say anything. Despite that, though, I do say / think about saying something when I see messages that are riddled with errors, even if I understand what's being said.

[Denube]

Neither version of the language is particularly easy; both are filled with nuance and and special rules.

[rusty pins]

What really bothers me is when someone goes for a job interview.

[Denube]

At that point, you're starting getting into the differences between dialects, though. In these instances, it might actually be acceptable for some of the speech patterns, although maybe not in your neck of the woods. These people learned to speak through their families, not through the school system, so it's no real surprise that there may be some issues.

[rusty pins]

This was just posted in the forum this morning from someone living in Engand, so maybe that will add to the discussion of American English and England English.

[Dubious]

I try to write properly, cause that's the way I learn English as it's not my main language

[willnotwill]

I find it amusing that your rant was headed by a headline with incorrect capitalization and a

[Spargano]

I know, right!? The autocorrect on the forum for my pc auto supplied a lower case w. Given I couldn't edit the subject line, I figured I would have to live with my error.

Apologies to Mr. Bergdahl. As a judge friend often said in court, "Your name is the only thing that is truly yours. Everyone deserves to have it spelled and pronounced correctly."

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dubious]

Only books I have completed is the Harry Potter series, in English

I only buy and read English books, latest being about photography

[Bettypooh]

It's always been that what goes in is what comes out. Today's younger folks process loads of useless garbage but little of true substance in comparison, so why would you expect the results to be any different? They have become technology-dependant so when that technology fails, they follow right along. In the best of circumstances you can use many aids to enhance your efforts, but when there's nothing there to help you your actual intelligence will show it's true colors.

[Fulldiaper]

My Collage professor sed I culd make up mi own words, noow thet I had ma dagree...But seriously...tis true a tale of what is correct does evolve as cyber ebonics propagate society or texting becomes the norm, people with college level educations are spelling words like should .... shuld, because that's how they text. In my business ethic class I remember APA formats deductions for improper grammar and English usage, but like I stated, now I'm edumacated !

[Dirty Diaper/Maxipad Lover]

Like it, don't like it, doesn't matter... language changes as people use it to communicate. Just because you oppose a new trend doesn't make it wrong.

Words have shared meaning and there are a specific set of standards that need to be met for a change in the language to constitute a new "trend" and not an error. Take the infamous pronunciation of the word nuclear as "nu-kyu-lar" for example, it was technically incorrect for decades, but was recently added to the dictionary as an acceptable pronunciation of the word. On the other hand, shortening the word "you" to "U" hasn't met that series of standards and is technically incorrect for the time being. This could obviously change, but language evolution doesn't happen over night. If I start writing "should" as "shood," that doesn't make it correct until it meets certain standards and enough people agree that "shood" is an acceptable spelling of "should." I'm not disagreeing with you that opposition to a new trend doesn't make it wrong, but new words have to meet a series of standards before they're considered correct.

[anned]

Todays schools do not push spelling and grammar like thay did 20 years ago.

[kevindhca]

One thing that most people haven't considered is that today you have access to a lot of writing that 20 years ago you would have never had access to.

Many people complain about mistakes in the writing, but these writings are not made by professionals.

Before the internet, almost all writings were written, proofread and edited before being published. All by professionals in the writing field.

To sum up, you have access to alot more than anyone in the past ever did. There is less bad writing now than in the past, after all there are more educated people now than ever before, it's just that bad writing is in the public view now, where as in the past you would have never been able to read it.

It's the same phenomenon as crime perception, crime is down, you just hear about it more, reported from places far away, stuff you would have never heard about in the not so distant past.

[PaddedPat]

I think others have touched on it, but poor grammar has always been endemic to any language.

[Little Girl Milly]

I don't have time to read all three pages of this thread, so just read the first (apologies if I'm therefore repeating anything that's already been said).

[PetahPetah]

I say it's these hand-held devices.

[Denube]

Milly's got a point, just to get her up to speed: The OP was more about the spelling errors, grammar errors, and errors of syntax prevalent within modern publishing. While the OP does have an issue with the occasional written post online (and he really shouldn't, we're not all copy editors!), the issue that exists in the publishing industry does need to be addressed.

[Bettypooh]

@PaddedPat

Immediacy can be had just as quickly with good grammar as with bad. Those who can't be bothered to learn and use good grammar are simply proving that they don't care how they appear to anyone else or whether they are going to be understood well. So I give them their due reward- if they don't care to be clear and correct then I don't place any real value on what they write for they have caused it to be worthless. And as people they probably follow suit Typos are one thing, not trying to do well is entirely different. If you're not trying, then don't expect anyone else to try to decipher your crappy writing Pat, I thoroughly enjoy reading well-wrirtten technical and business articles for they can make it easy to understand complicated things. The tl,dr crowd will never reach that level of intelligence

[BlakeJordan]

A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling

by Mark Twain

For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all. Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli. Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.

[BlakeJordan]

On the idea of English language as vehicle or rather vocabulary/words being vehicles and language being the freeway. Being able to use words in new a different ways. And move the language. Rather then break it.

[timmyc]

Question:

[WakkoWannaBe]

@Little Girl Milly

When I saw where you didn't have time to learn and understand what this conversation was about but you wanted to comment anyway, I stopped reading your post because if you don't have time for me and the rest involved here then I don't have time for you either. Maybe I should start using "ts,dr" and let you try to figure it out

[Dirty Diaper/Maxipad Lover]

I'm going to do something incredibly stupid, and call that comment a bit cold. Not only is that a terrible thing for me to say, but this is a terrible thread in which to say it (as in threads like this, everyone tends to get on soap boxes). In a perfect world, everyone would read the entire thread before posting. However, it seems to me that most people only ever read the OP and respond to that. I like to see people read most of the thread before posting, but I feel like it's so out of fashion that I don't expect that anymore. So, the fact that Milly even read the first page is more than what most would probably do - especially in a thread that is 3 pages long.

In many situations I would agree with you WakkoWannaBe, but I feel Bettypooh's comments were justified, especially in this particular thread. The first post on this page by PaddedPat even mentions information immediacy as something that might be part of the very problem discussed in this thread. I didn't want to say anything about it before, but I actually had the exact same reaction to Little Girl Milly's post as Bettypooh.

[Bettypooh]

On another forum I inhabit a very popular thread has reached past 11,150 posts (that's not a typo) and over 550 pages in length. I have read, not just 'scanned', at least 11,100 of those posts; the other's 'scanned' because their content was off-topic. Some posts are several paragraphs long, most at least several sentences, many are quite detailed and technical in nature. In that forum you are expected to read every post before commenting- you get a solid bashing if you don't It was only after 10,000 posts that they relaxed the rule but you'd still better not be repeating something already said or asking the same question again or the bashing will begin anew