Gender Identity of Littles

[pax87]

Hey everyone,

I've been a little for some time now. But to be honest, I've struggled fitting myself in the AB/DL box of being a 'baby girl'. Those who know me would describe me as very tomboyish. I hate dresses and frilly things and barbies (blech).

It wasn't until recently that I've concluded I'm more of a little boy when regressed. That's not to say I'm a little girl as well. I'm just both.

Are there any others out there that can relate? I've heard it being called genderqueer, but I'm not a fan if that name.

I'm just wondering cuz I kind of hope I'm not the only one.

Fanks for readins!

Paxy

[diaperpt]

If you think about little babies and even little kids in general, they only gradually develop a sense about gender and a sense of gender.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

The best to-date is that gender identity sets in between age 3-1/2 and 5

Taffy Cheerful, a long-time knowledgeable ALG put it this way "Sex is physical. gender is between the ears". From my time at the Transgender group TGGuide, I would say that is true. Also in 1975 I took Sociology of Sex Roles and any attempts to equate gender with six in children proved inconclusive. That, plus my own experience leads me to coclude that gender, while associated with sex is not tied to in in a one-to-one relationship. That is; masculine and feminine do not equate to male and female in littles

We have references to transgender experiences as in Tirisias. And having both genders does not set up any kind of conflict of and by themselves as long as one does not "get one's signals crossed" and use one where the other is appropiate. The Law of Non-Contradictions applies here as "A thing cannot be A and non-A IN THE SAME RESPECT AT THE SAME TIME"

It is based on all of these that I continue to use the older concept of 'transgender" and "transexual" being different, plus the fact that combining the two diminishes clarity. It is not a given that a transgender feels "trapped in the wrong body" and can function happily as both genders

It is from all of this that I conclude that gender identity is built up of things that are learned, If you look at the relevant blog entry, it was my uncle with his eighth grade education and his farm upbringing and watching animals that said of me that if I was not let to run with the boys then how would I learn how to be one. "He hast to fit in where he is [with the girls for a good percentage of my time]"

[timmyc]

I've heard it being called genderqueer, but I'm not a fan if that name

[Codymoogle]

Paxy, I doubt you're alone.

[gah!ghost]

For me I have always seen much of what defines gender in the culture (at least the one I grew up in) as just an artificial aesthetic and doesn't specifically pertain to gender beyond that. For example liking pink, or

[Bettypooh]

Gender is not an either/or situation, but instead a spectrum that goes from fully female to fully male. And the vast majority reside in between these extremes Gender is also not 'set'; it can vary and usually does to some degree in everyone. Some are like me in the middle but going in either direction quite a bit at different times Gender is also not 'given', but rather 'taken' from the things you are told as you grow up Mosty of us older folks were told a lot of wrong things about gender and we were pressured to comform with a bi-gender view of the world. Times are much better now but those of us in the middle will never feel as if we fit in fully with the other genders

[pax87]

Wow! Thanks everyone! I appreciate all the feedback, truly. I'm not really big on labeling my little half. I knew that gender identity is not established until later, which is why I was fine with dabbling with both genders. I was more curious about everyone's take on it.

Thanks!

Paxy

[spark]

It is funny for me, because I completely identify as a male.

[rosalie.bent]

The only people who think children dont demonstrate their gender until 3yo+ are those who have never had children or ever worked with them.

[rosalie.bent]

Gender is not an either/or situation, but instead a spectrum that goes from fully female to fully male. And the vast majority reside in between these extremes Gender is also not 'set'; it can vary and usually does to some degree in everyone. Some are like me in the middle but going in either direction quite a bit at different times Gender is also not 'given', but rather 'taken' from the things you are told as you grow up Mosty of us older folks were told a lot of wrong things about gender and we were pressured to comform with a bi-gender view of the world. Times are much better now but those of us in the middle will never feel as if we fit in fully with the other genders

[gah!ghost]

Can either of you site any sources?

[spark]

The only people who think children dont demonstrate their gender until 3yo+ are those who have never had children or ever worked with them.

[rosalie.bent]

And let the barbs fly, but I do agree with you on this.

[rosalie.bent]

Can either of you site any sources?

[spark]

Your first paragraph is complete and absolute nonsense.

[gah!ghost]

I don't really have the knowledge personal or scientific to really talk about this with any true understanding. I will just say that I don't believe in absolutes and am very weary of anything stated to be fact or absolute truth.

[Bettypooh]

But this pretence that gender is fluid and easily changed is nonsense. it is in fact the single strongest identity attribute that we possess.

Now, to the OP. I have observed that a significant number of adut babies who are in their adult world quite secure in their gender, become fluid or swap over genders in their regressed state. I actually live with one who does that. I dont think this is gender identity disorder at all. I dont really fully understand the psychology of what is happening it but it is very common in regressives.

Call this gender-bashing or not, I do have a fluid gender. I believe that your perceptions are swayed by the way most people handle their gender. I know that most men will avoid anything seen as unmanly by others, especially among groups of friends. Yet when you get them alone and their hearts open, sometimes you find some feminine traits and attractions. These are two different things; the first being the results of social pressure to maintain a binary-gender system; the second being what is inherent in these guys. You claim gender to be locked solidly in place and then you show knowledge of it being the opposite. Umm, not bashing you but that doesn't jibe at all

Let me give you an example of my gender fluidity. Most women adore cats, most men (even those who like cats) don't feel as strongly towards them. Driving up the road I see a cat hit by a car, dead. Sometimes I almost cry for the poor kitty and think of the sad child who sees their little friend this way. And sometimes it elicits no response at all, the cat being just another visual I take in because I am driving, and it not affecting my driving makes ot hardly register in my heart and mind. During those times I cannot make myself feel for the cat or the child who lost it no matter how I try. Everyone here will identify those responses with two different genders from their own world experiences. Among many TG people I have known fairly well or better, I find this kind of fluidity rather commonplace with only the degree of difference varying. I could give dozens of similar examples- my own experiences and that which others have related to me- but I am not here to argue the point. I know the truth which is that gebnder can be fluid

Yes, gender can be firmly entrenched but it isn't always locked-in in everyone like you think it is. The rigidity of gender is a concept that has been taught for decades but that doesn't make it correct. Those same learned references have changed a lot of their theories and concepts about gender through the years. 50 years ago is was widely believed and taught that transgender was either repressed homosexuality or erotically related- now those ways of thinking have been proven wrong and the newest texts reflect that. Your referring to "Gender Identity Disorder" is outdated- it is no longer seen as a disorder in the latest DSM but rather more of an anamoly that some people have, and the trend is toward eliminating the anamoly viewpoint and heading toward being seen as simply "normal".

In your experience with regressives and their sometimes changing gender you are seeing the differentiation between socially expressed gender and the true inner self expressing their true feelings toward gender at a younger age. Their gender therefore is not solid, but their social training has caused them to adopt a false gender when not regressed. Gender conformity is the strongest social pressure there is, that is an outside influence and not what a person is inside. I have always wanted to see an experiment done to find the truths and proofs that gender is a social construct more than an inner identity. If in an isolated place a community were established without contact with the rest of the world, the adults not expressing gender nor expecting it to be expressed, children born and raised there would probably have no specific gender even though their sexuality would likely be much as we see everywhere else. We've all heard male children reject something asd being 'sissy'. They did not inherently know this- it was taught to them and those teachings can be in error

History has debunked many similar social teachings such as inherent racial superiority and concepts surrounding basic human rights of women. These were once widely held as being true and proper beliefs with all the 'learned' people and texts supporting them completely. It was these oppressed people who brought about the changes which debunked those theories, not the ones who gained status by keeping those beliefs I believe we are seeing a similar process occurring concerning gender and it too is being driven by those of us who society hads made suffer over our differences. Until you have the experience of being Transgender you cannot really understand it and any theories you create regarding it will likely be at least somewhat in error. In times past, Transgendered people were not given the credibility to enter their input into the system because it was viewed as a basic disorder- something that was wrong with us which meant that we couild not be trusted to see or know what was considered to be normal and correct. Now that more of us are emerging and have proven our worth this is changing. TG's have become educated with degrees in these fields and done more and deeper research because of their own inherent understanding of Transgender, and it is this that is causing the current changes. More will be coming too.

The one thing that you show is that those whose sexuality and gender closely match do not or cannot understand those of us whose gender and sexuality do not closely match. In you gender identity is so strong that it keeps you from seeing what we see, and in your refusal to see that your belief may be wrong you will not ever learn or understand more about the fluidity of gender. You have closed your mind to this and that is truly sad when it is coming from someone who can grasp other concepts such as regression so well

None of us is perfect but my fluid gender is perfect for me even though it is not for most others. I have not created it, I did not want it, and I worked for almost 40 years to get rid of it but it could not be undone and it would not go away because it is who and what I am Whether you choose to believe that or not does not change that or me one bit. I am real and so is mny fluid gender- I know because I live with it every moment of every day of my life. I wish you would open your mind to this for it is not only possible, it is real.

Bettypooh

[ForbiddenFruit]

I had a situation a couple days back, the day after I RPed with a friend of mine online, in which I was expressing myself in a non-binary way; hell, he was switching pronouns now and then and neither of us really wanted consistency

[rosalie.bent]

Call this gender-bashing or not, I do have a fluid gender. I believe that your perceptions are swayed by the way most people handle their gender. I know that most men will avoid anything seen as unmanly by others, especially among groups of friends. Yet when you get them alone and their hearts open, sometimes you find some feminine traits and attractions. These are two different things; the first being the results of social pressure to maintain a binary-gender system; the second being what is inherent in these guys. You claim gender to be locked solidly in place and then you show knowledge of it being the opposite. Umm, not bashing you but that doesn't jibe at all

Let me give you an example of my gender fluidity. Most women adore cats, most men (even those who like cats) don't feel as strongly towards them. Driving up the road I see a cat hit by a car, dead. Sometimes I almost cry for the poor kitty and think of the sad child who sees their little friend this way. And sometimes it elicits no response at all, the cat being just another visual I take in because I am driving, and it not affecting my driving makes ot hardly register in my heart and mind. During those times I cannot make myself feel for the cat or the child who lost it no matter how I try. Everyone here will identify those responses with two different genders from their own world experiences. Among many TG people I have known fairly well or better, I find this kind of fluidity rather commonplace with only the degree of difference varying. I could give dozens of similar examples- my own experiences and that which others have related to me- but I am not here to argue the point. I know the truth which is that gebnder can be fluid

Yes, gender can be firmly entrenched but it isn't always locked-in in everyone like you think it is. The rigidity of gender is a concept that has been taught for decades but that doesn't make it correct. Those same learned references have changed a lot of their theories and concepts about gender through the years. 50 years ago is was widely believed and taught that transgender was either repressed homosexuality or erotically related- now those ways of thinking have been proven wrong and the newest texts reflect that. Your referring to "Gender Identity Disorder" is outdated- it is no longer seen as a disorder in the latest DSM but rather more of an anamoly that some people have, and the trend is toward eliminating the anamoly viewpoint and heading toward being seen as simply "normal".

In your experience with regressives and their sometimes changing gender you are seeing the differentiation between socially expressed gender and the true inner self expressing their true feelings toward gender at a younger age. Their gender therefore is not solid, but their social training has caused them to adopt a false gender when not regressed. Gender conformity is the strongest social pressure there is, that is an outside influence and not what a person is inside. I have always wanted to see an experiment done to find the truths and proofs that gender is a social construct more than an inner identity. If in an isolated place a community were established without contact with the rest of the world, the adults not expressing gender nor expecting it to be expressed, children born and raised there would probably have no specific gender even though their sexuality would likely be much as we see everywhere else. We've all heard male children reject something asd being 'sissy'. They did not inherently know this- it was taught to them and those teachings can be in error

History has debunked many similar social teachings such as inherent racial superiority and concepts surrounding basic human rights of women. These were once widely held as being true and proper beliefs with all the 'learned' people and texts supporting them completely. It was these oppressed people who brought about the changes which debunked those theories, not the ones who gained status by keeping those beliefs I believe we are seeing a similar process occurring concerning gender and it too is being driven by those of us who society hads made suffer over our differences. Until you have the experience of being Transgender you cannot really understand it and any theories you create regarding it will likely be at least somewhat in error. In times past, Transgendered people were not given the credibility to enter their input into the system because it was viewed as a basic disorder- something that was wrong with us which meant that we couild not be trusted to see or know what was considered to be normal and correct. Now that more of us are emerging and have proven our worth this is changing. TG's have become educated with degrees in these fields and done more and deeper research because of their own inherent understanding of Transgender, and it is this that is causing the current changes. More will be coming too.

The one thing that you show is that those whose sexuality and gender closely match do not or cannot understand those of us whose gender and sexuality do not closely match. In you gender identity is so strong that it keeps you from seeing what we see, and in your refusal to see that your belief may be wrong you will not ever learn or understand more about the fluidity of gender. You have closed your mind to this and that is truly sad when it is coming from someone who can grasp other concepts such as regression so well

None of us is perfect but my fluid gender is perfect for me even though it is not for most others. I have not created it, I did not want it, and I worked for almost 40 years to get rid of it but it could not be undone and it would not go away because it is who and what I am Whether you choose to believe that or not does not change that or me one bit. I am real and so is mny fluid gender- I know because I live with it every moment of every day of my life. I wish you would open your mind to this for it is not only possible, it is real.

Bettypooh

[spark]

Call this gender-bashing or not, I do have a fluid gender. I believe that your perceptions are swayed by the way most people handle their gender. I know that most men will avoid anything seen as unmanly by others, especially among groups of friends. Yet when you get them alone and their hearts open, sometimes you find some feminine traits and attractions. These are two different things; the first being the results of social pressure to maintain a binary-gender system; the second being what is inherent in these guys. You claim gender to be locked solidly in place and then you show knowledge of it being the opposite. Umm, not bashing you but that doesn't jibe at all

Let me give you an example of my gender fluidity. Most women adore cats, most men (even those who like cats) don't feel as strongly towards them. Driving up the road I see a cat hit by a car, dead. Sometimes I almost cry for the poor kitty and think of the sad child who sees their little friend this way. And sometimes it elicits no response at all, the cat being just another visual I take in because I am driving, and it not affecting my driving makes ot hardly register in my heart and mind. During those times I cannot make myself feel for the cat or the child who lost it no matter how I try. Everyone here will identify those responses with two different genders from their own world experiences. Among many TG people I have known fairly well or better, I find this kind of fluidity rather commonplace with only the degree of difference varying. I could give dozens of similar examples- my own experiences and that which others have related to me- but I am not here to argue the point. I know the truth which is that gebnder can be fluid

Yes, gender can be firmly entrenched but it isn't always locked-in in everyone like you think it is. The rigidity of gender is a concept that has been taught for decades but that doesn't make it correct. Those same learned references have changed a lot of their theories and concepts about gender through the years. 50 years ago is was widely believed and taught that transgender was either repressed homosexuality or erotically related- now those ways of thinking have been proven wrong and the newest texts reflect that. Your referring to "Gender Identity Disorder" is outdated- it is no longer seen as a disorder in the latest DSM but rather more of an anamoly that some people have, and the trend is toward eliminating the anamoly viewpoint and heading toward being seen as simply "normal".

Bettypooh

While I definitely see how you feel, but I'm purporting that your gender identity issues cloud your perception on the issue.

[Bettypooh]

This may set a record for the longest post ever here on DD. I have been too absent to create individual replies to each post I wantred to answer, but in the following is nearly everything I wanted to say. I might also add that I have heard from some others in this timeframe thanking me for my being so open and solid in supporting Transgenders of all kinds. I thank you for that support- it is what keeps me going and growing in understanding myself and the world around us better. It is what gives me the power and energy to spend the time it takes me to write and share what I know. Now that you're prepared I hope you all will take the time to read all of this and learn that most of what you thought you knew about gender may not be as accurate as you might have thought it was, Stand ready to have your eyes opened!

[oddlynappied]

Gender is not completely inherent. Gender is a more of a socially imposed construction that is taught to you

[Bettypooh]

Gender is not completely inherent. Gender is a more of a socially imposed construction that is taught to you

[ForbiddenFruit]