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I know we have had a similiar topic before, but I can't find it.

Has anyone flown since the most recent "underwear bomb" scare?

Have security procedures changed?

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They are not to say much about you wearing a diaper unless you are wearing a wet diaper because it could be a explosive liquid. I understand where they are come from, if they were to let someone wearing liquid filled diaper whether its granny or a toddler and it was a explosive then people will scream that they are not doing their job. It is pleasant to have to be searched and have to change out of a wet diaper but it for everyone protection. Some will argue that it not right to check people, their wheelchair, diapers or what ever, but it how a terrorist or smuggler would use it to their advantage. There lots or people that have no problem sticking thing in these places. I worked at a correctional facility as a teacher once, and seen a lot of occasion where drugs and other stuff would try to be snuggled in baby diaper are taped to child. THe thought of searching a dirty baby diaper is not pleasant neither is checking granny's.

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I flew last week in a diaper, and with several in bother checked luggage and carry-ons without issue. Having been strip searched several times by the TSA, I have learned that I need to fly with just one diaper on (I normally wear several thick diapers as I am a heavy wetter), and that it has to be dry. With this method, I, knock on wood, have not been selected for a strip search yet. It is a pain, as I have to change into thicker diapers after security, which requires me to get to the airport earlier and change in a yucky public restroom. But, my last flight, from DC to China, proved that I needed thick diapers. I was SOAKED when I woke up after 6 hours of solid sleep on the plane. I plan to do the same thing on my return home.

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America has forgotten about the 4th amendment. But I guess that only applies to government agencies....

You can't wear a wet diaper but you sure can take your pack of smokes and one pack of matches. Makes sense to me!!

I refuse to fly if at all possible.

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Yes, it is a pain in the ass to have to go through the TSA screenings. Been there, done it sevreal times but I don't wear diapers when I fly. I really have a lot of sympathy for those who are incontinent and have no choice but to wear diapers. It's too bad that the TSA can't come up with a much better and more dignified way to screen those who need to wear diapers so as not to embaress them. Problem is, there are some people out there who will get their nose out of joint for even the most basic screenings, diapers or not. Those kind of people complain about everything! I'm not talking about a legitimate complaint, but for example, someone who complains that the room is too cold, then when you turn on the furnace they complain that the furnace makes too much noise!

Those of us who choose to wear a diaper on the airplane for our own convienience either because you are a DL or AB and just like to wear your diapers everywhere need to realize that in doing so, it is your choice and you may have some uncomfortable moments when going through screenings. Some may not care at all if people know they wear diapers, others may. If you don't really need to wear diapers but wear them for fun and enjoyment or just the convienience, then if going through screeing and the probability that you will be discovered in diapers bothers you, maybe you should wait until the plane lands at your destination to put on your diapers. If you don't have a real incontinence issue that causes you to have to wear diapers, then you have a choice on what may happen going through screening.

I know many people will not like my opinions here, however since 911 it is a different world, proven by the fact that another attempt at blowing up a plane with an underwear bomb just happened more than 10 years after 911. Fortunatly, the plot was discovered before the bomber had a chance to get on a plane. We have come a long way in the past 10 years towards saftey against terrorists but the threat is still out there. Gone are the days in the 50's and 60's where you could just walk right out to the tarmac and climb the stairs into the plane. There are so many radicals and just plain nut cases out there who want to hurt Americans any way they can, and not just forigners either. Frankly, I'd shudder if the TSA didn't screen people like they do before getting on a plane. My take on it is if I did wear diapers when flying, sure I wouldn't want everyone to know about it, but I'd rather be a little embaressed that a TSA agent noticed my diaper and strip searched me to make sure I wasn't carrying a bomb in my pants! Better a strip search than for them not to do good screanings and I'd board a plane with the possibility it could be blown up with me in it! The more we foil plots to blow up our planes, the more these terrorists will come up with new ways to try and beat the security. Sure, the TSA needs to be more sympathetic and careful to screen people with incontinence issues so as not to embaress them and obviously not all TSA screeners do that. There is definatly room for improvement. On the other hand, people who fly need to realize within reason that in todays world, we have to put up with some inconvieniences now and then to insure that we are as safe as possible when we get aboard that airplane.

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I wore diapers on my trip to NYC a couple of weeks ago. Even went through the stand-and-be-scanned gizmo. Non-event.

As to the TSA... it's so much smoke and mirrors. I've met with TSA management during training sessions down in OKC and they shake there heads and say <redacted>.

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however since 911 it is a different world, proven by the fact that another attempt at blowing up a plane with an underwear bomb just happened more than 10 years after 911. Fortunatly, the plot was discovered before the bomber had a chance to get on a plane.

I would like to point out that American TSA had absolutely NOTHING to do with the discovery of this plot. The plot was "discovered" by a double-agent who "volunteered" to blow up a plane coming TO America, who then turned the bomb he was given over to American authorities. To use this as an example of why TSA is necessary for security in the US is disingenuous at best.

Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security.

--Floaty

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You know what TSA sands for?

"Tough shit; America"

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Looks like the terrorists won after all. To think there is even an argument to be made for strip searching someone in a diaper is beyond ludicrous. You deserve all you get by even THINKING that is ok. these airline searches have caught what exactly - other than nothing at all? Inside underpant seaches of 6yo girls? no problems. strip searching of geriatrics in a wet diaper? go for it!

You are giving up your most basic freedoms all for what? to protect against terrorism which basically cant be protected against? terrorists hate one thing: your freedom and your human rights. So what do you do? give them all up!

If Benjamin Franklin were alive, he'd give you all a good bollocking.

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I would like to point out that American TSA had absolutely NOTHING to do with the discovery of this plot. The plot was "discovered" by a double-agent who "volunteered" to blow up a plane coming TO America, who then turned the bomb he was given over to American authorities. To use this as an example of why TSA is necessary for security in the US is disingenuous at best.

Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security.

--Floaty

And I never said that the TSA discovered this plot. My point is that the terrorists keep plotting to blow up planes! Even though it wasn't the TSA who discovered the most recent underwear bomb plot, what if it hadn't been discovered well before flight day? My point is, the TSA screenings do a lot more than if there was no screenings at all. I'd rather have some give and take and be more assured that I'll be safe even if it means giving up a little of my privacy. After all, people have a lot of rights but other people have rights too, such as not wanting people to smoke in their establisments for example. It's not about giving up your Liberty. If someone feels that way when they want to fly, no offence, perhaps they should drive instead. It's my rights, too, to be able to feel safe when boarding a plane and knowing that the rest of the passengers have been screened to the best of the TSA's ability and that a fellow passenger isn't carrying a bomb in his pants just because he feels being screened goes agains his rights.

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I might add, hopefully without adding fule to a fire here, that if a plane happened to be blown up with someone's loved one on board, I'd bet that person would be the loudest one shouting about how a bomber was allowed to board that plane, where was the TSA, etc. etc.

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I suppose it's easy for someone who is not on "the list" to think what the airlines and government is doing is right.

I'm on "the list" for why I have no clue. I'm not a terrorist nor have I engaged in terrorist activities. Regardless, being on that list means I'm taken aside every time I want to fly somewhere and given an extra search, and I'm questioned. I'm not even Muslim nor middle eastern.

My rights are taken away for what? No one can tell me. 20k people are added to that list monthly.

Know who else made lists? Hitler, Stalin, and any other government entity who wanted to round up people easily... There's some scary shit going on whiling our government dismantling our constitution and stripping us of our BASIC rights.

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I just returned from a trip which involved flying. When I go through security, I try to remember that although the TSA does some strange things which I dislike, I direct my ire toward those who make this neccessary. Remember we had metal detectors before 9/11 although I was convinced that they were not always on. Being scanned with my belt off and my hands above my head I worry about my pants falling! I am also worried about not having my wallet on my person. Last year several inspectors at Newark (NJ) airpoet were arrested for stealing cash from mostly Dominican immigrants. Sorry about the rant...

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"Slowly our rights slip away..."

Last time I checked, the 'right to air travel' was enshrined.... nowhere. US Consitution? Nope. ECHR? Nope.

If you don't like the security, then you don't fly. Simple as. Personally, I'd rather be strip searched a hundred times than get blown up on an aircraft once. If you don't agree, then don't get on a plane.

"I'm not even Muslim nor middle eastern." <--- Nice casual racism there :-/

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"Slowly our rights slip away..."

Last time I checked, the 'right to air travel' was enshrined.... nowhere. US Consitution? Nope. ECHR? Nope.

Americans do have a right to be secure in their person, home, and personal papers against unreasonable search and seizure. That is in the Constitution, and the TSA clearly violates that law. I'm not against security of airlines but the TSA is more of a 'dog and pony show' than real security. Anyone who can read this post can learn of a dozen ways to down an airplane they are on successfully right here in the internet- and all of the methods I am thinking of would go right past every TSA screening that is being done :o I'm not going to give anyone any assistance in bypassing the TSA or other security save for things that might make it easier for those of us who will be boarding while wearing diapers ;) As do all here, I want only safe flights period.

If you don't like the security, then you don't fly. Simple as. Personally, I'd rather be strip searched a hundred times than get blown up on an aircraft once. If you don't agree, then don't get on a plane.

"I'm not even Muslim nor middle eastern." <--- Nice casual racism there :-/

Even if the official policy forbids it, profiling happens :( You will receive more scrutiny if you appear to be of Middle Eastern ancestry compared to others. It's just a numbers game- when they do that they also add enough 'others' to show that nobody was wrongfully singled out because of apparent race. And any of us may be one of those others who would not have been scrutinized at all had the other innocent person not been present on the same flight :screwy:That is what I am against- the twisting of things to make them suit you just because you can.

As I have said before, the most secure airline flights you will ever take are those leaving Israel because they do it right. Everyone gets a small psychological interview, every bag is hand searched, everyone knows this is going to be done to everyone, so nobody tries anything. Plus there are going to be armed security agents posing as passengers on that plane with you. They are all very well trained in what they do and they do their jobs well which is why they have very few problems. I would have no complaint if something similar was done here, but I do have complaint against any government agency having broad powers over people who are supposedly guaranteed against experiencing those excesses :bash:

Because of the TSA excesses and a few other things, I will not fly again unless it is impossible to deal with my life otherwise. As to those other things, I discuss them personally and privately with the people I care about if I think they can handle the info. Because flying has become so onerous, the airlines have lost some of their customers who either just avoid the trip or use another method of getting there. That and helping pay for the TSA has driven up the cost of flying which has excluded even more customers. It may not be a huge negative economic effect but I wish none of that on any US industry, especially with the overall economy as it is now where a small effect is magnified, and any money lost is more than it should be.

I have no reason to fly so save for one thing, I plan to never fly on an airline again. I haven't needed to fly in ages so I do not know what lists I may be on, but it would not surprise me that my being as vocal about the Governments errors as I am hasn't put me on a 'no fly' list already- even though I have done no wrong nor will I. That is the norm when any parts of any Government are given too much power with too little oversight, and indemnity against being held responsible for their mistakes.

Just sayin, and not flyin :lol:

Bettypooh

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"Slowly our rights slip away..."

Last time I checked, the 'right to air travel' was enshrined.... nowhere. US Consitution? Nope. ECHR? Nope.

If you don't like the security, then you don't fly. Simple as. Personally, I'd rather be strip searched a hundred times than get blown up on an aircraft once. If you don't agree, then don't get on a plane.

"I'm not even Muslim nor middle eastern." <--- Nice casual racism there :-/

Apparently you do NOT know your fourth amendment. Read your bill of rights, just one more time....

No casual racism there at all, racial profiling is alive an well within the tsa amigo.

America has a billion dollar a year kill brown people addiction and a history of profiling the newest off the boat.

What is wrong with this country is people like you who aren't willing to stand up for your own liberties

Spain and the uk suffered very similar albeit smaller terrorist attacks. Both those coutries did not even come CLOSE to taking away rights from their people.

Live in fear instead of knowledge, makes sense to me.

Since heightend security all that has happened is an increase sense racial profiling. Just ask my Palestinian friend who grew up in America why he won't fly anymore...

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Apparently you do NOT know your fourth amendment. Read your bill of rights, just one more time....

Please, enlighten me. Where does it say that you have the right to air travel?

It doesn't. Whilst the 4th Ammendment or Article 8 of the ECHR might say you have a right not to be searched (or to a private life in the case of the ECHR), you can easily protect that right by NOT travelling by air. If you decide to travel by air, then you have to abide by the rules. If you feel that infringes your rights, then don't travel by air. What's the problem there?

Spain and the uk suffered very similar albeit smaller terrorist attacks. Both those coutries did not even come CLOSE to taking away rights from their people.

Actually, you're wrong. After the discovery of the transatlantic liquid bombs plot, UK air travel changed hugely (specifically restrictions on hand luggage). But people here just accept it as part and parcel of the world we live in. As someone else mentioned earlier, the anger shouldn't be directed at the government agencies who are protecting our safety; but instead at the people who make such searches and restrictions necessary.

I'm from the UK, and I travel very frequently by air travel (usually once a week), both throughout Europe, to the USA and elsewhere. Countries like Germany and The Netherlands have some of the most thorough screening I've ever been through - almost every time I vist, they search my bags, pat me down, swab inside my bags, and also use a full body scanner. But nobody in the UK, or in Germany, or anywhere else for that matter, has the same anti-security attitude that America does.

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It's not just air travel- the TSA covers all forms of public transportation including trains, buses, ferries, and ships where the general public uses it for travel. So far they have not gotten out of hand on the others, but once an incident happens on one of the other carriers they will transfer their airplane methods to that one too :( And though not specified as to method, the Constitution does grant the right to travel freely within our borders. It's not that Americans are anti-security either- it is how that is done that we are concerned with.

It's rather ludicrous to suggest that any of us would want to allow a threat onto any public conveyance, especially with ourself on board :o But it just as ludicrous to make children strip to their underwear for a search, or to make an incontinent person dispose of a partially wet diaper with hours of use left in it, or to force someone to risk their pants dropping as they go through a body scanner without their belt, or to spend huge amounts of money for complex machines that are not as effective as other cheaper methods at providing security. Especially the latter. With our current economic situation we do not want our tax money wasted like is being done now. If the security measures were more sensible, if the costs were more in line with the results, and if they did their job better, Americans would have fewer issues with the TSA.

And historically we are very jealous of our rights when we feel that any of them are being violated. We are supposed to be the freest nation in the world, a shining example of the benefits that such freedom can bring so that others may follow suit. But that concept is rapidly being over-ridden by a government who cares less about protecting those rights as it does garnering more control over us, and by a complacent populace who generally isn't resisting that, which is another topic altogether.

When I take my one last public flight (if that becomes a need) I'll be diapered and I'll have more in my luggage because I don't have much other choice, and I'll post here about how that went. I'd dearly love to tell the TSA where they are usurping my rights then- nicely even. I'd more love to do that which I am Constitutionally allowed to and take them to Court when they run over my rights. But if I do any of that I will not be allowed to fly just because they have the power to do that to me, and I cannot sue them because they are indemnified by the Federal government against such suits. We have lost our power to object to our being abused, and this is just the most visible place it is happening which is why the TSA is getting the brunt of our dissatisfaction.

Bettypooh

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Rawr, I guess Europe is just used to tyrants taking rights away from their people. Or so says history...

I understand that there is no intrinsic right to air travel. I don't despute that at all. I do, however; have the right to legal search and seizure. I do not believe the TSA's method of profiling us is accomplishing that.

Over here in America I had hope we could think outside the box a little and maintain the basic constitutional freedoms our forefathers designed... but too bad I suppose.

It goes beyond the tsa's as well. Now my state is making arbitrary motorcycle check points to single out motorcyclists for search and question. It started post 9/11 with the patriot act, homeland security, and the tsa's. but at what point will it end? It's sad when I hop on my bike and I don't feel safe, it's sad when I want to take a flight and I dont feel safe. The saddest part is, it's not the people in cars or the people sitting next to me in the plane. Iit's the police force(s) that are supposed to be interested in "my" safety that worry me. Let's not forget power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We are giving our governing body almost complete control down to the point where they can strip search us "just because."

Im sure glad the government is beginning to think for me and tell me where and how I am going to be safe. Cause without them I'd be lost.... (sarcasm)

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It's not just air travel- the TSA covers all forms of public transportation including trains, buses, ferries, and ships where the general public uses it for travel. So far they have not gotten out of hand on the others, but once an incident happens on one of the other carriers they will transfer their airplane methods to that one too :( And though not specified as to method, the Constitution does grant the right to travel freely within our borders. It's not that Americans are anti-security either- it is how that is done that we are concerned with.

It's rather ludicrous to suggest that any of us would want to allow a threat onto any public conveyance, especially with ourself on board :o But it just as ludicrous to make children strip to their underwear for a search, or to make an incontinent person dispose of a partially wet diaper with hours of use left in it, or to force someone to risk their pants dropping as they go through a body scanner without their belt, or to spend huge amounts of money for complex machines that are not as effective as other cheaper methods at providing security. Especially the latter. With our current economic situation we do not want our tax money wasted like is being done now. If the security measures were more sensible, if the costs were more in line with the results, and if they did their job better, Americans would have fewer issues with the TSA.

And historically we are very jealous of our rights when we feel that any of them are being violated. We are supposed to be the freest nation in the world, a shining example of the benefits that such freedom can bring so that others may follow suit. But that concept is rapidly being over-ridden by a government who cares less about protecting those rights as it does garnering more control over us, and by a complacent populace who generally isn't resisting that, which is another topic altogether.

When I take my one last public flight (if that becomes a need) I'll be diapered and I'll have more in my luggage because I don't have much other choice, and I'll post here about how that went. I'd dearly love to tell the TSA where they are usurping my rights then- nicely even. I'd more love to do that which I am Constitutionally allowed to and take them to Court when they run over my rights. But if I do any of that I will not be allowed to fly just because they have the power to do that to me, and I cannot sue them because they are indemnified by the Federal government against such suits. We have lost our power to object to our being abused, and this is just the most visible place it is happening which is why the TSA is getting the brunt of our dissatisfaction.

Bettypooh

My name is BriGuy and I approve of this message. Haha. Agreed Betty.

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