Given The Way The Debt Ceiling Crisis Played Out....

[drynot]

Who are you most likely to vote for in the next election? Democrat or Republican? Not that I can vote in an American election but I seem to have an interest in following politics and the financial markets for some strange reason...

Would it be fair to say in simple terms that in order to solve the US debt crisis you folks need to raise taxes and cut spending?

[hidden]

Well, lets just say I didn't vote for Obama the last time and I won't be voting for him in the future.

Stuff I've taken from a couple of speaches.

Obama: "We need to cut government spending" (golden chair in the background)

Obama: "We can't let politics get in the way" (Oh, BTW, Republicans are evil)

[happyindprs]

I'm a Conservative 'nuff said

[BabyGizmo]

as a canadian, i voted for harper. as an american, i voted for obama. maybe it is because i have an outside point of view, but Obama did help the union of states quite a bit. people just dont like that he is black, and doing a better job than bush could have ever dreamed of.

[curiositykilledthecat]

I want the three seconds I spent reading that last post back. wow you really just shown how little teenagers actually know about the world around them.

[curiositykilledthecat]

Also when all the liberal talk radio hosts can do is defend obama by still trying to blame bush for everything while ignoring the 300 trillion deficit Obama personally has spent, I just laugh. Bush sucked, Obama is worse and neither party is any different. One hates freaks and the other hates religious people, neither has a clue of what limited government powers means. I am a libertarian so neither party makes any sense to me. It's either oppressive government control A or oppressive government control B. At the end of the day the republicans typically take less money from me and give less money to the undeserving so I tend to vote for them more often.

[ldatsea]

as a canadian, i voted for harper. as an american, i voted for obama. maybe it is because i have an outside point of view, but Obama did help the union of states quite a bit. people just dont like that he is black, and doing a better job than bush could have ever dreamed of.

thats just a stupid comment ! while a few nuts may hate Obama becuase he is black buy far the majority of people have Legitiamte reason to dislike his actions or inactions and his policies... he says what ever he thinks the people want to hear at the time than chooses to go a different route! he had a committee to solve the debt issue yet HE Choose not to INCLUDE ANY of the ideas in is budget.... this is when the dem's held control of ALL branches so it could have passed without ANY fighting THEY HAVE YET to pass a budget 800+ days without a budget this can not be blamed on any other party as they could have done WHATEVER THEY wanted when they had control... they did nothing! this debt deal cuts nothing from the debt it only cuts the INCREASE in spending our debt and deficit will continue to grow..... while Bush did not help us and SPENT WAY to much Obama has SPENT MORE and you can not blame the past when you have accomplished nothing......

[curiositykilledthecat]

shhh you're using logic, lol.

[Diapered Jason]

I do not like any of them either. To me, Obama was a little better than Bush, but that does not mean much. I think Obama made the mistake of concentrating on too many things when his party had control of congress. This made him fall short in the things that really mattered, such as a gradual balancing of the budget and job creation. We wasted too much time on that health care debate only to receive some very minor changes to the system that actually only help in the long run, but hurt us in the short run. The stimulus bill could have been much better too. We probably should not have gotten involved with Libya. There were some good things though. Stem cell research is back. Cash for clunkers was a success. We have experienced some recovery from the recession, but not enough.

On the other hand, if we look at the Republican candidates for President, the first thing I notice is their fucked up view of how everyone should live and then trying to impose that view on everyone else. Abortion is immoral and gay marriage is an abomination of god, blah blah blah. I will never vote for any of these hypocrites. The only reason I would vote for Obama is so those idiots do not get elected. Probably best to vote for different parties all together though. Yes, that is something I have always wondered. Why does everyone vote for either a Republican or a Democrat? It is no doubt that this schism is killing us.

[Letluvsrool]

thats just a stupid comment ! while a few nuts may hate Obama becuase he is black buy far the majority of people have Legitiamte reason to dislike his actions or inactions and his policies... he says what ever he thinks the people want to hear at the time than chooses to go a different route! he had a committee to solve the debt issue yet HE Choose not to INCLUDE ANY of the ideas in is budget.... this is when the dem's held control of ALL branches so it could have passed without ANY fighting THEY HAVE YET to pass a budget 800+ days without a budget this can not be blamed on any other party as they could have done WHATEVER THEY wanted when they had control... they did nothing! this debt deal cuts nothing from the debt it only cuts the INCREASE in spending our debt and deficit will continue to grow..... while Bush did not help us and SPENT WAY to much Obama has SPENT MORE and you can not blame the past when you have accomplished nothing......

Faulting the Dems because they couldn't push through legislation while controlling both houses of Congress is really glossing over some issues. First, the Democratic party is nowhere near as unified as the Republicans on many issues. While they did have a majority in the House, they couldn't always count on having all 60 votes in the Senate needed to circumvent a filabuster. Consider toadies like Joe Lieberman, a classic DINO, who was such a sore loser after getting trounced in his primary he ran as an independent and trashed his opponent enough to squeak in. He cannot be counted on to vote with the Dems, and frequently supports conservative causes.

But really, all that is irrelevant; take a look at the budget from 1999, Clinton's last year in office. We had for the first time in decades a budget surplus. If we had continued his economic policies, the USA would have been debt free by 2009. Ah but Dubya took care of that. Massive tax cuts for wealthy individuals and corporations, two completely unfunded wars, a prescription drug plan that did not include a means to pay for it (the first entitlement plan in history with no revenue source!) and a concerted effort to deregulate the banking and investment industries that directly led to the economic collapse of 2008.

Barack Obama took office after W did everything he could to enrich his good ol boy network of defense contractors, oilmen, and corporate sponsors. Bush nominated a new Supreme Court justice who promptly declared that corporations hold all the rights that real human beings do but none of the liability as LLCs. As expected, the average Americans voice is now completely useless up against powerful monied interests who buy politicians of both parties.

As a Progressive, I am very disappointed in Obama for completely caving in to Republican demands and getting nothing he wanted in the debt deal. Obama campaigned as a Progressive but since his election has governed from right of center and completely alienated his supporters while trying to compromise with people who wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

I will not vote for either party come next election. The more people who stop voting for these clowns means the better chance that a third party may actually gain a foothold in US politics.

[LuvsGurl]

I think both parties are to blame for this, so I will be voting against incumbents for House and Senate seats. The only way we're ever going to see improvement is if we get lots of new blood in DC.

Because voting for President doesn't actually ride on each individual vote but on how states fall your vote only really matters if you live in one of the "battleground" or "swing" states... NC, VA, GA, FL, MO, IN, OH. Otherwise your state will go Red or Blue (as it most always has) so a vote for the other candidate might as well be thrown away. Utah is quite possibly the most conservative state in the nation, so any vote for a Democratic President is thrown away.

Also, the US is STILL a 2-party system. Any vote for a 3rd party is thrown away as well. A 3rd party is never going to get the majority needed for serious contention. Vote Red or vote Blue, those are your only choices.

[DaddyHatiwolf]

Im the future ... a progressive liberal conservative aka a voter who votes by what is right rather than because stone cold steve austin said so. As a progressive I am rarely happy with the pro regressive democratic party as they have become nothing but the party of NO. As a liberal I cant stand behind either party as neither offers a single true long term benefit to the people ... just themselves and their rich cronies. As a person who lives monetarily conservative, I cant stand the stupidity of those who are wasting away our future by throwing money around and thinking we can pay credit card debt by simply applying for more credit cards. That simply buys a short while until the next months bills come ... one bill last month now has the same debt as last month plus new interest to pay.

[LuvsGurl]

Im the future ... a progressive liberal conservative aka a voter who votes by what is right rather than because stone cold steve austin said so....

Can I vote for Stone Cold Steve Austin? At least that puts us one step closer to Idiocracy.

[DaddyHatiwolf]

actually what we have in place is several miles closer to idiocracy than I ever imagined in my wildest nightmares in which freddy kreuger wasnt trying to kill me or david bowie wasnt trying to steal my soul in. Theyve turned politics into a reality drama comedy pornographic daily catfight tv series. Anyone who cant see through the lies and publicity stunts aimed at making politicians into soap opera stars rather than employees of the government than they are actually classified as has spent too much time glorifying prime time tv shows. There is not a person left who can tell me without either holding up a sign that verifies that forest gump beat them in a spelling bee that a democrat or republican is bent on doing something positive for the people they were elected to serve.

I want my change mr obama. It now costs me 50 cents to play a game of pinball at the laundromat. Theres no getting around it ... the last 3 presidents have been digging a solid hole. Clinton left us with inflated internet companies and real brick and mortar companies who couldnt fake accounting on his level, a housing market with forced bad loans to poor people to scam them and those of us floating the loans under the promise of housing for all at bad rates. Bush left us with a war, a housing market on a continued freefall that he didnt have the brains to see coming ... luckily I did and got out of my condos with a big laugh as the rest of you kept on buying. Obama came in and promised change and war ending in 18 months. He got a nobel peace prize and ended up extending the war and somehow got in 2 more ... thats 3 wars concurrently for a man of peace. Wha? You're joking right? No, the world is making fun of norway.

Politics has created new terms to add to the urban dictionary and its awesome. Those who are mad that obama (aka 'bush the third') was born outside of america and should not be president by law are known as "birthers". There are people who claim that race is why no one likes a war monger who blames everyone else for his lack of ability to perform while dragging a country further into a hole when he promised to be the savior are known as "racists" by normal people.

[BabyGizmo]

im not gonna make a huge arguement. but most people are too nearsighted. as a teenager, you disregard my comment as i dont see what is happening. obama may be costing a lot of money. he may not be doing a whole lot for the here and now. but he is planning ahead. witch, considering it isnt making him any friends for the ellection, is pretty admerable in my books.

now, the canadian prime minister. as far as i am conserned, the only reasion i voted for harper is because he told the truth during the rescission. he fully admitted he had no plan, and took his oppositions plan, and implimented it. that take a bigger person than "well i dont know what happened, but its not my fault."

and, about obama being black. im not racest, i hate negitive steriotypes. if someone purposly puts themself into that steriotype, its their own damn fault. but obama is, in most southerm states, very much hated due to his color. and he has gotten alot of flack for it. not a single joke about him that i have found online has made fun of his actions. its all about his name and his color. the fact that he isnt in the news all the time as being evil tells me he must be doing something right over the last administration.

americans confuse me.

[ldatsea]

I want my change mr obama. It now costs me 50 cents to play a game of pinball at the laundromat. Theres no getting around it ... the last 3 presidents have been digging a solid hole. Clinton left us with inflated internet companies and real brick and mortar companies who couldnt fake accounting on his level, a housing market with forced bad loans to poor people to scam them and those of us floating the loans under the promise of housing for all at bad rates. Bush left us with a war, a housing market on a continued freefall that he didnt have the brains to see coming ... luckily I did and got out of my condos with a big laugh as the rest of you kept on buying. Obama came in and promised change and war ending in 18 months. He got a nobel peace prize and ended up extending the war and somehow got in 2 more ... thats 3 wars concurrently for a man of peace. Wha? You're joking right? No, the world is making fun of norway.

Politics has created new terms to add to the urban dictionary and its awesome. Those who are mad that obama (aka 'bush the third') was born outside of america and should not be president by law are known as "birthers". There are people who claim that race is why no one likes a war monger who blames everyone else for his lack of ability to perform while dragging a country further into a hole when he promised to be the savior are known as "racists" by normal people.

at least you have the right facts! based on your comments i think you may want to dig into what the progressive movement really is as you may find yourself more libertarian....

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

[DaddyHatiwolf]

the "democratic progressive movement" is the leftover redneck democrats that fought the union to keep slavery in place in our civil war against abraham lincoln and the republicans. I do unfairly still hold that against them and their original klan and im astounded at the amount of people still proud of that racist heritage. What doesnt surprise me is their nonstop tactics to hold down minorities. They keep minorities on welfare and similar program with just enough money to get by to keep them from working and becoming successful. Then they fight tooth and nail to convince people that its not racist to ensure that minorities are unable to forge ahead due to this poverty option in place helping them limp by rather than forging ahead ... PRO-Regression in the name of progression. Nothing has changed in the southern democrat klan since the old days ... just the message thats visible. The sad part is the amount of people that openly identify as belonging to a party of minority haters. It shows the sad state of a nation and the low schoolastic achievements america is known for vs other industrialized countries as we are not taught how to interpret what is said in the world around us but rather how to work for someone else like a good pet. It is that ignorance though that makes the rich richer and the poor in their place at the bottom.

[BBoy]

I'm not going to tell Americans how to fix their debt problem (I'll leave that for another day:) however in Canada back in the 90's we drasticaly cut spending and raised taxes. Now we have one of the strongest and most stable economies in the G7-G20. Higher taxes isn't evil, it's neccessary when you need to pay off your debts.

Oh yeah, we also stayed out of the latest financial crisis by having strict banking regulation. Not one single bank in Canada faltered or skipped a beat after the banking crisis.

Just sayin...

[sarah_ab]

silly silly people....

i mean wanting their kids to get a quality education, wanting their roads paved, and the parks to be pretty and clean, and wanting their police to come when they call and the firemen to put out the fires they start when they are drunk and waving around fireworks.... I mean these are all basic human rights and no one should have to pay taxes... because the good money fairy is going to come and just provide all these things for us with magic!

[Diapered Jason]

at least you have the right facts! based on your comments i think you may want to dig into what the progressive movement really is as you may find yourself more libertarian....

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

Interesting short political quiz. It said I was a liberal, which is pretty accurate.

[curiositykilledthecat]

Though that quiz is a bit shortsighted I got centrist which is pretty much where I am. I consider myself a right leaning libertarian. If this country wants to fix tethe deficit then less spending has to occur. the overages are not from roads and the basic stuff, it is from all the pork and social welfare programs in place. Instead of raising taxes why don't we try enforcing existing tax laws. A flat tax would be the miost logical as everyone is paying their fair share regardless of icnome level.

[Leilin]

A flat tax would be the miost logical as everyone is paying their fair share regardless of icnome level.

This is inaccurate, as there are taxes other than income tax. Sales taxes and other taxes affect the poor by a significantly higher percentage of their income.

[hidden]

http://adobeclassica.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/motivational_bush_miss_me_yet1.jpg

Almost bought a magnet with a similar picture on it.

[Diapered Jason]

This is inaccurate, as there are taxes other than income tax. Sales taxes and other taxes affect the poor by a significantly higher percentage of their income.

Agreed, but like what curiousitykilledthecat said, we are doing a terrible job of enforcing existing tax laws as wealthy people get away with just a Capital gains tax on their income. Only by closing the tax loop holes would we only begin to restore fairness.

[Leilin]

Very much agreed, Jason. I just take issue with the "flat tax" argument because it is not fair. It is, in fact, regressive by nature unless that flat tax is actually charged on ALL FORMS OF INCOME, and, even then, does not take into the fact that there is a true cost floor as far as living wages are concerned. Simply put, flat tax is literally designed to benefit the already super-wealthy players who are attempting to have it implemented.