Sex Ratio...

[Zander]

From what I've seen on these forums, many people seem to agree with the idea that there are dramatically more male members of the AB/DL community than there are females. The impression I get is that people think (real) female members are on the order of less than one female to ten males and beyond in terms of numbers. Personally, I'm not ready to accept that there is such an extreme imbalance without better evidence to support it than mere community anecdotes. From my time here I've thought the split is nearer the 1:3 or 1:4 mark (i.e. roughly a quarter to a third of the community are females), but until now I've not really had any way of justifying my gut feeling.

Today I spotted glenndl's NELICon '11 post which conveniently lists possible attendees to an AB/DL themed event by their sex and age. I appreciate this is only one source and that we cannot say if it's accurate or representative of the ABDL world as a whole, but given these people have RSVP'd to the event it suggests there is at least some incentive for them to be honest! In brief, the post lists 76 people by sex and age. Ignoring the 4 declared TG peeps, we get a split of 19 to 52. Put another way: roughly 27% of those people listed are female. Its also interesting to note the median age is 33.4* years - which I think sounds pretty close to the median age of sexually active people in the US.

Anyway, since this is all very unreliable at the moment, can anyone suggest any other sources of data which might work towards building confidence in an answer? I suppose it would also be worth knowing if my understanding above - that the community believes females are very rare (far less frequent than 1 in 4) - is actually the case?

To start the ball rolling: I guess a better source of data would be the titles of people ordering from ABDL oriented stores (e.g. what percentage of orders are shipped to a 'Ms., Mrs., Miss.' etc.) ... does anyone here work for a company who market to ADBL's and would be willing to run the numbers?

* - I removed the 90 year-old as they would appear to be a statistical outlier.

[Bettypooh]

And then there are the ABDL's you don't see or hear from

There has always been interest and speculation about the ratio between male and female ABDL's and so far it seems that there isn't enough verifiable data to draw an accurate conclusion Since so many people are "in the closet" over this I don't see how this question can ever have a good answer beyond what you have already stated- that there is a much larger propensity towards this from males

I do feel compelled to take exception to your categorizing of TG's as not fitting in your categories- that only proves again that gender isn't binary; it covers a wide spectrum without clearly definable divisions Excluding or separating us is discriminatory The generally accepted protocol for TG's is to let them define their own gender, then treat us accordingly After all, each of us knows best who we are inside and nobody else can tell us more about our feelings than ourselves Being of a very fluid gender I really don't fit any category you or I can conceive of beyond calling myself TG and living as I feel at the moment. That can be male one minute and female the next- if that confuses you then consider what it's like for me to have to deal with My life is a gender yo-yo but hey, it's just the real me as I was made so it must be OK

Getting back to your question, another thing which will skew your results badly is the inability to verify whether someone who says they are male or female isn't just another person counting on their online anonymity to hide behind Mailing labels won't help you either- I get correspondence and packages addressed to "Ms" two-initials-and-my-last-name, "Mr" two-initials-and-my-last-name, and just plain two-initials-and-my-last-name In the end you're not going to find an accurate answer, so there's not much reason I can see to devoting much effort to pursuing this. Just accept the generalities that go along with unusual behaviors like ours and do your own thing- after all you can't really do someone else's!

Bettypooh

[lilannie]

I think if you account in for all the fakes and girlfriends (no, they don't count as real ABDLs) the number is a lot smaller then you'd like to think. There are a lot of girls who might go to something like NELIcon but who have no interest in diapers or infant play (you see this kind of ageplayer female on Fetlife alllll the time). I'd say the ratio is really harsh. :-/

This is coming from a biological female who has met about 10 or more other ABDL biogirls in person. I don't say bio to mean or rude but obviously a MTF would've been male at a time during development when fetishes set in, so I don't think they really count in the whole number. :]

[diaperbrownie]

I think that for every female baby (ABDL), there's probably 100 male babies(ABDL). 1:100 Seems like a good rasho.

[ForbiddenFruit]

Males tend to explore their sexuality more, ergo, the ratio is probably closer to equal than you may think, it's just that less females are likely to be aware about it, and even then, less likely to be vocal about it.

[LuvsGurl]

Not at all.

The Male:Female split among the ABDL community is much closer to 50:50 than most people think. Not saying that it is 50:50, but I'd say its at least 66:33.

There are a ton of ageplaying females out in the world, but most of them don't bother with ABDL gatherings or online communities because they are looking for a daddy/daughter type of relationship and seek a strong masculine figure, not some pathetic whiny babby that makes poppy dippers.

Female ABDLs are, by and large, treated like pieces of meat by male members of the community. We are harassed, chased around, stalked and insulted. We have our pictures stolen and reposted by creepers who claim to be us. So many of us do not willingly associate with this group at all.

Looking at the list of people interested in attending the NELI CON thing, I'm not about to consider going b/c I know the place is going to be full of old creepy guys who want me to change them.

[Zander]

another thing which will skew your results badly is the inability to verify whether someone who says they are male or female isn't just another person counting on their online anonymity to hide behind. Mailing labels won't help you either- I get correspondence and packages addressed to "Ms" two-initials-and-my-last-name, "Mr" two-initials-and-my-last-name, and just plain two-initials-and-my-last-name In the end you're not going to find an accurate answer, so there's not much reason I can see to devoting much effort to pursuing this.

The point of my starting this thread is to see if we have any creative ideas which would help in getting a credible and somewhat more trustworthy answer than the community 'gut feeling' - particularly without much effort! Case in point - it doesn't have to be especially accurate, it just needs to give us some way to narrow down what we already believe. Of course any methods of collecting and analysing data will have some flaws and downside; a ultimately it may simply not be possible (as you say) - but the whole point in this thread is to see what ideas there might be

I think if you account in for all the fakes and girlfriends (no, they don't count as real ABDLs) the number is a lot smaller then you'd like to think. There are a lot of girls who might go to something like NELIcon but who have no interest in diapers or infant play (you see this kind of ageplayer female on Fetlife alllll the time). I'd say the ratio is really harsh. :-/

I'm wasn't really asking about people who have an interest in diapers or ageplay. I'm more curious as to the ratio of the sexes among the entire population that has (somewhat) frequent engagement in the ABDL world as a whole. I appreciate how my suggestion in the original post may have mislead you though .. so, sorry for that Anyway: this is regardless of whether they participate in the ABDL world or not - its just knowing the sex-split between those who are engaged in it. On a related note (and please don't take this the wrong way ), but since you used the term 'like' in your above post, let me clarify where I'm coming from: I'm not really bothered either way what the actual ratios are (M:F:TG:etc.). I just think that we as a community simply don't know much about what would appear to be an open question that a lot of people ask. I have nothing emotionally vested in the outcome should we be able to find out

Males tend to explore their sexuality more, ergo, the ratio is probably closer to equal than you may think, it's just that less females are likely to be aware about it, and even then, less likely to be vocal about it.

I expect the differences in psychology and the typical male/female stereotypes (whatever they are) do play a big part. My experience would tend to suggest that women are generally more cautious when it comes to things (particularly in the case of relationships and sexuality). That may mean we have more here as unregistered lurkers or 'unspecified-sex' members than we might otherwise assume. At the moment I think we are guessing based on the people who contribute content to the site rather than the community as a whole - where I expect a majority of people simply read here but never post.

[LuvsGurl]

That may mean we have more here as unregistered lurkers or 'unspecified-sex' members than we might otherwise assume.

There are also a large number of males posing as females on this site. New folks don't know it, but those of us who have been around a while do.

[Zander]

There are also a large number of males posing as females

Welcome to the internet (you don't need the rest of your quote )

* -- I've no doubt you already know this, so forgive the facetious post

[LilFozzyJ5]

I think this is something that would be difficult to quantify.

for many of the reasons already mentioned.

1. fake profiles

2. false profiles

3. the ratio is dependent on whoever is:

a. Online

b. Knows what an abdl is (For years I had no idea what I was and that it was ok)

c. is willing to actively take part in forums.

This is entirely possibly the tip of a very large iceberg, when you apply some statistical formulas, the 'known' abdls are a small % of the potential net number around the world. And until people are truthful about the gender you will never get close to an accurate figure.

[Codymoogle]

This makes me wonder where the T-boys and T-girls fit into all this. I wish there were statistics for cisboys, cisgirls, T-boys, and T-girls. Obviously the T-boys would be in the male part of the ratio, and the T-girls in the girl part, but if we're speaking at the chromosomal level...That's where things get complicated.

~ moogle

[DartDodger]

I am sure there are plenty of fakes here as there are fakes every place.

Do guys really think when they call that 1-900# on the TV they are talking to that hot young girl?

Also plenty of horn dogs who jump all over the real girls to make them hide.

[DartDodger]

This makes me wonder where the T-boys and T-girls fit into all this. I wish there were statistics for cisboys, cisgirls, T-boys, and T-girls. Obviously the T-boys would be in the male part of the ratio, and the T-girls in the girl part, but if we're speaking at the chromosomal level...That's where things get complicated.

~ moogle

You lost me here I have no idea what you are saying as I have no idea what those are

[PArms]

I would imagine the ratio will be similar for "still-in-the-closet" as it is for those that are out of the closet. Maybe slightly skewed in favor of more females.

[Repaid1]

So to eliminate the confusion I went ahead and deleted all accounts for the fakes, unfortunately that got rid of more girls than guys as more females logged in as males. Now the ratio is even smaller.

[Bettypooh]

You lost me here I have no idea what you are saying as I have no idea what those are

"cisgender" = the usual gender as opposed to "transgender", or not the usual gender It's a relatively new term I first heard about four years ago though I can't remember where I first heard it anymore

Bettypooh

[Codymoogle]

You lost me here I have no idea what you are saying as I have no idea what those are

Cisboy/cisgirl = Cisgendered boy/girl = match between assigned at birth gender, body and gender identity. A cisboy was assigned "male" at birth, has male parts, and identifies as a male. A cisgirl was assigned "female" at birth, has female parts. and identifies as a female.

T-boy/T-girl = Transgender boy/girl = a mismatch somewhere between assigned at birth gender, body and/or gender identity. Transgender is an umbrella term, "uniting all those whose gender identity did not mesh with their gender assigned at birth" (quote taken from Wiki). Take me as an example - I'm a T-boy, which means at birth I was assigned "female", but my gender identity is male.

~ moogle

[lilannie]

Cisboy/cisgirl = Cisgendered boy/girl = match between assigned at birth gender, body and gender identity. A cisboy was assigned "male" at birth, has male parts, and identifies as a male. A cisgirl was assigned "female" at birth, has female parts. and identifies as a female.

T-boy/T-girl = Transgender boy/girl = a mismatch somewhere between assigned at birth gender, body and/or gender identity. Transgender is an umbrella term, "uniting all those whose gender identity did not mesh with their gender assigned at birth" (quote taken from Wiki). Take me as an example - I'm a T-boy, which means at birth I was assigned "female", but my gender identity is male.

~ moogle

What's the point of a term like that then? Just curious.

[Codymoogle]

What's the point of a term like that then? Just curious.

A term like what? Cisgendered? I don't know - I guess to differentiate between those that are trans and not, without using terms like "real boy" or "real girl"...because transboys and transgirls are already real boys and girls...It's just the body/mind mismatch that's the problem, you know?

~ moogle

[LuvsGurl]

Cisboy/cisgirl = Cisgendered boy/girl = match between assigned at birth gender, body and gender identity. A cisboy was assigned "male" at birth, has male parts, and identifies as a male. A cisgirl was assigned "female" at birth, has female parts. and identifies as a female.

I.E. Cisboy = BOY and Cisgirl = GIRL.

There, simplicity.

I have no idea why the gender identity community had to create another term to further complicate a classification system that worked just fine for millennia.

[rain]

Cute chemistry-derived terms are cute!

Cis-trans isomerism

I don't see why we can't have new terms that reflect more modern views and understanding of gender. You can just call boys and girls boys and girls when you aren't trying to distinguish between cis- and trans- (which should be most of the time). If you are trying to distinguish, it helps to be specific.

[Total Trash]

I.E. Cisboy = BOY and Cisgirl = GIRL.

There, simplicity.

I have no idea why the gender identity community had to create another term to further complicate a classification system that worked just fine for millennia.

Because referring to cispeople as "normal" merely perpetuates binary essentialist gender roles as the accepted standard, and marginalizes anyone who doesn't fit the mold as "deviant."

[Bettypooh]

Cute chemistry-derived terms are cute!

Cis-trans isomerism

I don't see why we can't have new terms that reflect more modern views and understanding of gender. You can just call boys and girls boys and girls when you aren't trying to distinguish between cis- and trans- (which should be most of the time). If you are trying to distinguish, it helps to be specific.

I've been 'into the Trans scene' for 10+ years and have watched it grow into the more solidified group it is today - even though it is still somewhat fragmented Among ourselves, we used to say "TG" for "transgender" and "GG" for "genetic girl" way back then. Transgender meant anyone not living full-time in a non-birth gender; post-op had the obvious meaning; and TS meant someone living full-time in a non-birth gender. The division of words divided the community, and while that division is growing smaller it is still there I like the use of "cisgender " since it's a clear-cut, precise, and appropriate expression but I need to say that you/we don't need any more new words or phrases- what we need is to find and use common terminology and settle on it's meaning

Ages ago, Virginia Prince proposed the word "Transgender" to mean what we now know as "TS". Shortly thereafter she changed it to mean what we now know as "TG" where it has stuck fairly well; most people understand what you mean when you say "TG" To try to redefine it now, or to try to use another word for it will only lead to confusion and a longer path to social acceptance "Cisgender" is the last new word we need- let's get behind it, use it, and keep it's definition intact And let's stop right here with new terminology because it is not needed and is only going to confuse the situation, thus making it worse for everyone cis or trans

You can't change what something is by calling it a new name. As long as the current word is adequate and not disrespectful, put your effort behind keeping it's definition clear because that's where your effort is needed and will do the most good

<close rant>

Bettypooh

[froggy]

In the past, it was my gut feel that adult diaper users were about 75% female and 25% male. This is based on product designs with lots more hiproom than males need and knowing something about about nursing home populations. I feel the proportions are reversed for ABDL. Males are more likely to register for sites like this. Some males tend to harass the registered females at the sites and limit activity. I have no proof.

wribbit

[LuvsGurl]

A term like what? Cisgendered? I don't know - I guess to differentiate between those that are trans and not, without using terms like "real boy" or "real girl"...because transboys and transgirls are already real boys and girls...It's just the body/mind mismatch that's the problem, you know?

~ moogle

I'm sorry, but I have to point out that you aren't a "real" boy/girl unless everything matches. Thus why transgender terms exist in the first place. I realize that some transgendered persons don't like this and prefer to refer to themselves as the gender of their mental state, especially online, but in reality that is just a lie.