Political Revelation

[sarah_ab]

hehehhe tea bagger...

[ArtemisEnterri]

hehehhe tea bagger...

Do you have anything of real substance or intelligence to add to the discussion?

These repeated "tea bagger" posts are purely childish and have no place in an adult discussion.

[Dougie]

And saying small business hates the Tea Party is a load of BULLSPIT! That news article was based on ONE group of business people, in ONE part of ONE state! That is NOT indicative of the views of ALL businesses in ALL states!

I know several small business owners that fully support the Libertarian movement. They can't stand the idea of the government telling them how, when, and what to do so they can conduct business. I don't know of ANY actual business owner in America that would be begging to have regulations that can make their business illegal with a pen stroke from Congress.

Show me a small business that desires government control, I'll show you a business that lacks viable business plan.

[redneck diaper boy]

There are two webs sites that have a credibility of zero:

1. Daily Kos

2. Huffington Post

Anything from those sites is twisted and or staged.

[ArtemisEnterri]

I know several small business owners that fully support the Libertarian movement. They can't stand the idea of the government telling them how, when, and what to do so they can conduct business. I don't know of ANY actual business owner in America that would be begging to have regulations that can make their business illegal with a pen stroke from Congress.

Show me a small business that desires government control, I'll show you a business that lacks viable business plan.

I am confused by your reply Dougie, are you agreeing with my comment (arguing against Ashes' inference that small business hates the Tea Party) or are you arguing a different angle? Last I checked, one of the key factors for the Tea Party is "Limited Government Power"...

[sarah_ab]

heheheh tea bagger

nope, nothing of real substance to add. Then again i've not seen much of any substance in this thread at all.

sides come on, its just funny... tea bagger....

[DL88]

sides come on, its just funny... tea bagger....

I find it funny too

[sarah_ab]

everybody now... lets just have a full pages of posts of people laughing at the phrase.... tea bagger.... come on.... its great that there is a political party proud to call itself by a phrase that essentially means rubbing your balls across someone elses face.... symbolic of all politics!!!

[KittenAB]

There are two webs sites that have a credibility of zero:

1. Daily Kos

2. Huffington Post

Anything from those sites is twisted and or staged.

Note: This holds true of 99% of sources online ... all Blogs are nothing but opinion, all "fact" based data is typically skewed, and statistics are the biggest lie of humanity.

That aside, ever notice that the opinions used always agree with whoever posts it? Now here's the easy "tell" of who's lying: They use catch phrases or statistics.

The plain reality is that the politicians are also lying to you, even those who you probably voted for, which is easy to see if you voted for a winner. For one thing, no one politician can change anything, that's just impossible, so when they say "I will change ..." they are lying. Politicians want to get paid, everyone does, but they have this special way of doing nothing and getting paid for it, because of the fact that one person cannot change the government here. So when they say "I'm on your side" they are also lying, they are on their own side. This is why we see the same bull from the current president as we saw from the last one. Now the government as a whole will continue to do "just enough" to make voters happy, so the voters won't see the fact that they really aren't doing anything but funding pet projects and using tax dollars to pad their own bank accounts. The few things that they have been doing are working as perfect distractions. Look at the grab for control of medical insurance, the Dem supporters (most) are eating it up, thinking it's real "change" while the Rep supporters are too busy crying foul to see question what else is happening. This "total disclosure" is total bull to, there are contradictory laws still in place (probably a few new ones) that they can use to say "it's Top Secret".

Whether you are conservative or liberal, moderate or green, you have all been lied to and will continue to be lied to, and it's not the media. Media is about nothing but selling you the story, true or not, that's how they earn a living. So whether you watch Fox or listen to NPR, doesn't matter, they will sensationalize everything to sell commercial space or get supporters. Hate to rain on everyone's parade and all, but that's "government economics" for you.

Now here's a novel concept, one that no one will ever support, take ALL the power from the federal government for businesses, let the consumers choose who they want to support and who they will shop from, you will see a lot of small businesses becoming big ones, and big ones collapsing, you will see real capitalism, something that has never actually existed in this country, ever. So before you all debate the best form of commercialism, remember, we haven't seen real capitalism in effect ... and not just this country, never in the entire world, government has always controlled businesses.

[sarah_ab]

right now in france hundreds of thousands of people are protesting because they want the government MORE involved in their lives...

[KittenAB]

right now in france hundreds of thousands of people are protesting because they want the government MORE involved in their lives...

Lots of people want a babysitter ... doesn't mean it's the best solution.

[sarah_ab]

hehehehehe lots of people want a babysitter, especially on THIS site....

but no i was just saying it cause i thought it was funny how on this side of hte ocean we are fighting to keep gov't out of our lives and just a across the pond they are fighting for the gov't to take more of an interest... like the little kid who will do anything for their parents attention, only to turn into a teenage who tries to get rid of their parents attention.....

course then the teen ager grows up and learns that their parental attention wasn't such a bad thing after all and their parents were just looking after them out of love... SOO NOT like any gov't lol..

ok enough with the analolgies....

hehehehe tea bagger

[freswith]

right now in france hundreds of thousands of people are protesting because they want the government MORE involved in their lives...

No, The French have a deep contempt for government of all types, and insist it keeps out of their lives. They are protesting because they want to do less work and be paid more "other people's" money.

Unfortunately they've spent all the other people's money, and all the other people are now also dependent on the state. Socialist economics is like standing in a laundry basket and trying to lift yourself up by the handles.

The UK spent all the other people's money that the people had, and then borrowed as much money as anyone will lend us in an effort to keep the gravy train rolling until the election, after which it hit the buffers. Now we are trying desperately - and painfully - to sort the whole mess out. An additional effect was an enormous growth in government regulation to make work for the jobsworths employed to enforce it, and a corresponding loss in individual freedom.

The US is a few years behind us on this cycle. Obama appears to be driving up state spending as if he was Casey Jones. Somewhere, not far ahead, the buffers are waiting.

[abxy]

I find both parties to hold contradictions between their alleged beliefs and their practices. You would think Democrats would embrace religion as many are very socialistic in nature.

Conservatives, the recent ones, performed in a way that whould be considered socialistic, as the main justification toward such actions (war and bailouts) was for the public good.

The government needs to stop attempting such large projects while using the money they force us to give them. The government can't make a profit. There's no way we can expect it to pay back any sort of debt.

[KittenAB]

I find both parties to hold contradictions between their alleged beliefs and their practices. You would think Democrats would embrace religion as many are very socialistic in nature.

Conservatives, the recent ones, performed in a way that whould be considered socialistic, as the main justification toward such actions (war and bailouts) was for the public good.

The government needs to stop attempting such large projects while using the money they force us to give them. The government can't make a profit. There's no way we can expect it to pay back any sort of debt.

These projects are the distractions really, do you honestly believe a toilet seat costs $5,000? Like the small time auto mechanic that deals with a customer who knows nothing about cars, "you need your alternator realternated, that'll be another $50 for it." The government is making a profit actually, it's the country that is not able to make one. Then you add in all the pay the politicians get ... during their unplanned vacations .... not just the pay reported, but what they collect in fees for basically everything now.

We are dealing with a very corrupt government in the US now, just as long as people believe they have a voice in it no one questions it. Ditch the parties, ditch the standard voting ... vote for anyone but a career politician and you may see real change. Vote for Weird Al if all else fails. You know, that would actually be awesome if he would take the job.

[dprtodd]

I go on vacation for two days and ya'll still havn't figured this out yet? What a bunch of baby's

On a serious note for Naughty (who said she is not replying to this post anymore) on the federalist vs states rights issue I will be happy to share my opinion and the reasons I feel the way I do.

1) Are states better at running the goverment than than a big federal government? I certainly hope not! Could the states run social security, the IRS, medicare/medicaid, to the same effect as the federal gov? Nope, and someone who wants to maximize personal and economic freedom that is a desirable thing.

2) If the states arn't better than the federal government, then what is so great about states rights? State government is much closer to the people and as such you have a much greater chance of influencing politics on the state scale as opposed to the national level. Consider Prop 19, if it passes in California it will start a pissing match between the state and the feds, but really why should Washington DC have any say in what the citizens of california choose to do, as long as it is not in violation of the US Constitution? If the power were decentralized then individual states might have laws and practices that reflect the culture and preferences of those living in those states, and that choice is good thing. That is what government for the people by the people is really all about, representing the voices of the people.

Also if you are going to paint the right as being thuggish it is only fair then to note some of the most violent political folks out there have been Marxists of one stripe or another - Look at the human rights abuses of Cuba, China, Stalinist Soviet Union, Non-Stalinist Soviet Union, the Nazi's were a socialist party, even the Anti Free Trade folks at the G8 manage to turn ugly. Political violence is not a problem of the Left or Right as both sides make us of violence as a tool too often.

[FretaBWet]

Just a thought here. Does anyone see a pattern in our government. The Dems. gain control and try to pass laws their supporters would like while the GOP does everything in it's power to create gridlock so the laws can't be enacted. People get fed up and vote in the GOP and the Dems. do everything in their power to stymie the GOP. agenda. Back and forth, back and forth, meanwhile the population is either hypnotized to do nothing or energized to continue the pendulum swinging. I have news for all of you on both side of the fence, nothing is going to change.

I think part of the problem is that our form of government is fatally flawed. I know, I know, get the tar and feathers but try opening your mind for a moment. When our government was created it was an "experiment". Our Founding Fathers argued a great deal about how our government should work and at the same time they created the means to make changes and wrote that we may need to have some form of revolt because they didn't know how it would work out. Part of the problem is that what worked in an agrarian based economy and the level of technology then may not be the best form of government now. Would you buy a Ferrari with model T brakes? I don't think so.

The reason Communism will always be doomed to failure is because it defies human nature and all government is a human endeavor. It rewards those that do nothing the same as those that work hard so it creates a climate where the hard workers just get tired of carrying the sloths and they give up. I don't care how strong you are, you can only swim against the tide for so long before you get worn out. On the other hand our government worked so well because it harnessed human nature. It gave us the freedom to create and run our own enterprises and to reap the benefits from it consistent with the effort and thought we invested in it. It gave us the ever rising standard of living we enjoyed throughout the 20th century. It also is the fatal flaw of our system. We rely on greed to drive our prosperity. This is the flaw that will kill us. You want evidence? Can anyone on either side of the fence deny Enron. I.m not talking about Democrat or Republican, Conservative or Liberal being to blame because the problem has transended all presidents and parties. How about the Savings and Loan crisis before Enron? Now it's the recession and the Banking crisis that started it.

For those that think the Tea Party is going to fix this I say get a clue. Lets be generous and assume these are all concerned citizens with only the well being of our country at heart every last one of them. Lets say we vote a whole bunch of them into office to send a message and maybe make things better. What do you think will happen. The answer is in the first paragraph. The pattern, that's what is going to happen. Even if every Tea Party member of the Congress and the Senate propose laws and vote for them they can't do it without the support of the other parties. This is common sense, they would have to have enough members to have a majority in the Congress and more than 60 Senators and even then they would need a Tea Party President to sign the laws they passed or they would need a 3/4 majority to override a veto. What we'll have is gridlock, which is what we have anyway so nothing is going to change.

The only other way they can get any meaningful legislation passed is to be corrupted which is exactly what we have now. Nobody in Congress gets any bill passed without the support of the other members. This is an undeniable fact. One member is POWERLESS. So how do you really think anything gets passed? Every last one of them has to whore themselves. If you support my bill that doesn't benefit you but doesn't do too much damage to the people you represent I'll vote for your bill that I don't really care about either way. They're all whores and they have to be whores and this corrupts them. The longer someone has been in office the better perks they get. They get the most important and powerful committees, they get the best offices so they just want to continue getting elected and this becomes the driving force in their life. Not making things better for any of us.

Hugs,

Freta

[DL88]

[redneck diaper boy]

The objective of the Tea Party, right now, is not to change anything! The objective of the TEA Party is to stop Omama's Marxist agenda and influence policy. The next step is to unseat Obama and his Communist cohorts in 2012! Change can only come when people with common sense take over.

Too many people think that the Tea Party is a bunch of Republicans. Keep in mind that the Tea Party has unseated a few Republicans. They may well be mostly Republicans but if the Republicans get out of line, they will endure the wrath of the Tea Party. If a Democrat or independent was to tow the Tea Party platform, they would be supported by the Tea Party. The reality here is the Democratic Party has been hijacked by the American Communist Party. Many Democrats are registered socialist. Socialism is a stepping stone to Marxism.

Once people find out that their health insurance cost has increased and the quality of care has decreased, there will be many more people on the Tea Party bandwagon. When hard working Americans see themselves supporting parasitic individuals, they will support the Tea Party. When the cost of energy skyrockets, because some nit-wit scientist thinks that man is causing "climate change", the Tea Party is there for them.

Just a thought here. Does anyone see a pattern in our government. The Dems. gain control and try to pass laws their supporters would like while the GOP does everything in it's power to create gridlock so the laws can't be enacted. People get fed up and vote in the GOP and the Dems. do everything in their power to stymie the GOP. agenda. Back and forth, back and forth, meanwhile the population is either hypnotized to do nothing or energized to continue the pendulum swinging. I have news for all of you on both side of the fence, nothing is going to change.

I think part of the problem is that our form of government is fatally flawed. I know, I know, get the tar and feathers but try opening your mind for a moment. When our government was created it was an "experiment". Our Founding Fathers argued a great deal about how our government should work and at the same time they created the means to make changes and wrote that we may need to have some form of revolt because they didn't know how it would work out. Part of the problem is that what worked in an agrarian based economy and the level of technology then may not be the best form of government now. Would you buy a Ferrari with model T brakes? I don't think so.

The reason Communism will always be doomed to failure is because it defies human nature and all government is a human endeavor. It rewards those that do nothing the same as those that work hard so it creates a climate where the hard workers just get tired of carrying the sloths and they give up. I don't care how strong you are, you can only swim against the tide for so long before you get worn out. On the other hand our government worked so well because it harnessed human nature. It gave us the freedom to create and run our own enterprises and to reap the benefits from it consistent with the effort and thought we invested in it. It gave us the ever rising standard of living we enjoyed throughout the 20th century. It also is the fatal flaw of our system. We rely on greed to drive our prosperity. This is the flaw that will kill us. You want evidence? Can anyone on either side of the fence deny Enron. I.m not talking about Democrat or Republican, Conservative or Liberal being to blame because the problem has transended all presidents and parties. How about the Savings and Loan crisis before Enron? Now it's the recession and the Banking crisis that started it.

For those that think the Tea Party is going to fix this I say get a clue. Lets be generous and assume these are all concerned citizens with only the well being of our country at heart every last one of them. Lets say we vote a whole bunch of them into office to send a message and maybe make things better. What do you think will happen. The answer is in the first paragraph. The pattern, that's what is going to happen. Even if every Tea Party member of the Congress and the Senate propose laws and vote for them they can't do it without the support of the other parties. This is common sense, they would have to have enough members to have a majority in the Congress and more than 60 Senators and even then they would need a Tea Party President to sign the laws they passed or they would need a 3/4 majority to override a veto. What we'll have is gridlock, which is what we have anyway so nothing is going to change.

The only other way they can get any meaningful legislation passed is to be corrupted which is exactly what we have now. Nobody in Congress gets any bill passed without the support of the other members. This is an undeniable fact. One member is POWERLESS. So how do you really think anything gets passed? Every last one of them has to whore themselves. If you support my bill that doesn't benefit you but doesn't do too much damage to the people you represent I'll vote for your bill that I don't really care about either way. They're all whores and they have to be whores and this corrupts them. The longer someone has been in office the better perks they get. They get the most important and powerful committees, they get the best offices so they just want to continue getting elected and this becomes the driving force in their life. Not making things better for any of us.

Hugs,

Freta

[DiaperBoyKR]

Wow. A thread on the intarwebz about politics that hasn't completely devolved into name calling. I applaud all of you (well...except NaughtyAshes).

A few thoughts I had while reading through:

1) Our whole fixation on two-party politics has destroyed the balancing act our government should have been. Washington warned us about what political parties would become, and we've fulfilled his warnings beyond his wildest nightmares.

2) Our government as it is today would be barely recognizable to the Founders. The way things were designed then were made that way specifically to prevent what we are seeing now...."statesmen" being carried away with every whim of the populace, who care more about what people think about them and getting re-elected than doing what is right. In the Federalist papers, specifically Federalists 9 & 10, Alexander Hamilton & James Madison warn about the dangers of faction, a group a citizens whether majority or minority that acts in a way contrary to the aggregate best interest of the people as a whole (meaning the nation). Such factions are often driven by passions, doctrines, religions, but most commonly "the various and unequal distributions of property". Faction overtime can break down a nation and destroy it in fits of passion, and allows the way for a demagogical tyrant to come to the reins. Gee.....I wonder where that sounds familiar from history.......(and no, I'm no referring to the US).

3) I am sick and tired of being accused of being a racist because I am conservative. I can't even hold a political conversation in the break room at work because another employee accused me of racial harassment because I dared to suggest that Obama might be a fail president. Just because I am in favor of lower taxes, less government involvement, a constitutionally required balanced budget, and no government run health care (among other things) does not mean that I am a racist, gay-bashing, abortionist-killing, crazy-eyed zealot.

4)I believe a state or even local government is going to be fundamentally more capable of governing many things better than the Federal government. This is simply because they can be more precise with the allocation of resources, and in tailoring regulations to fit the needs of particular areas. A good example: Education. What works in Boston, Massachusetts may not work in Cheyenne, Wyoming. What is needed materials wise in one county may not be in others. Keeping the control closer to the people allows for a tighter control (and less wasteful spending) on many many subjects. Does this mean a state government is better in all things? Hardly. International relations (diplomacy and war), treasury, interstate transportation, all are things that the Federal government does better than the states.

[nitrous]

I'm just going to say this plain and simple. Neither the democrats nor the republicans embody the true ideals of the founding fathers. the society they envisioned for us does not exist in these United States but more in South Korea. In South Korea individuals strive to be the best they can be. They create their own businesses and strive for personal financial goals without ruining their environment. I believe that if we as Americans strive to be more like South Korea we would become a better society and country.

P.S. our two party system can sucket

[KittenAB]

I'm just going to say this plain and simple. Neither the democrats nor the republicans embody the true ideals of the founding fathers. the society they envisioned for us does not exist in these United States but more in South Korea. In South Korea individuals strive to be the best they can be. They create their own businesses and strive for personal financial goals without ruining their environment. I believe that if we as Americans strive to be more like South Korea we would become a better society and country.

P.S. our two party system can sucket

Actually, you just built another great example of what's wrong now, trying to be like "so and so" .... that is not what we should be thinking.

What we should think is this: How can we give our country what it needs and still be happy about it?

Now country is not government, country is the people. Someone once said "if people wanted change, they would change, but since we see the same all the time, no one really wants change, they just want to rebel."

[DiaperBoyKR]

Now country is not government, country is the people. Someone once said "if people wanted change, they would change, but since we see the same all the time, no one really wants change, they just want to rebel."

Biggest problem with change is that change is scary to many many many people. It involves looking at core assumptions, and realizing that they're wrong. We have plenty of people that want to enact change, even some with some pretty darn good ideas of how to affect it. But because of all the bickering, name-calling, etc that goes on, the vast majority of people are like "screw this" and don't pay any attention to what goes on. As a nation, we are absolutely ripe for a charismatic leader to take the reins and "change" things....all its going to take to wake enough people up is something that they fear more than change itself. 9/11 did it in some ways, and had our economy actually collapsed a few years ago, it would have happened then.

Nitrous, I agree with you about South Korea, in the sense that they are probably much closer to the Founder's republican ideals than the US is at this point. Taxes are low (total of about 5% of income, on everyone), what services government supplies are phenomenal (including the roads, trains, police, etc), and government is generally non-invasive. Alot of what the Republic of Korea has achieved though has been on the backs of hardworking ambitious individuals, much like our nation's people 100 years ago.

[sarah_ab]

*giggles* communists!!!

[KittenAB]

*giggles* communists!!!

*giggle* Korea